Depression is a bitch - Page 2

On March 14 2013 06:19 Stroggoz wrote: Show nested quote + On March 14 2013 03:54 DustySwedeDude wrote: I hate Chomsky. Dude says that corporation can't live without a nanny state (true for the corrupt ones) and then he criticises libertarians for wanting to get rid of the nanny state because it'll give the corporations to much powers. WTF? Although he brings up the usual argument against libertarianism. That's cool. Well, this libertarian is giving money to schools in Africa, I've given money to people in need and I try my damned best to help people out when they need it. It's of my own free will and it feels good. I just don't feel I have the right to use force to make other people do the same. I'm trying to live a good, moral life and support my family, help out my friends and give money to stuff I think is important. I'm a member of a small political party that wants out of the European Union and let anyone who wants to come to Sweden come to Sweden and when here work and take care of him- or herself. I want to get rid of the nanny state, I'd like people to be allowed to take responsibility for them selves, do whatever they want as long as they don't hurt anyone else and just in general go to heaven, hell or any other place they for some reason believes in in their own way. I agree with Achoo regarding your own moral. Doesn't the fact that all the corrupt corporations want libertarian values so they can exploit everyone, worry you? I mean it basically means they can do whatever they want, and in the past they've set up sweat shops around the world, controlled public opinion to justify war and help commit genocide in east timor. it's the right, for the rich to do anything they want to the rest of the population. I don't see how you can have corporations the way they are run atm without government, it will just result in absolute corporate tyranny. As far as Chomsky goes, his view of no government is fine as long as power in corporations is decentralized and made democratic. I am also for less govt but not until corporations and workplaces become democratic, instead of just the will of 1 person or a few at the very top.

in an interesting turn of events it seems China has the best system after all

i don't have anything meaningful to contribute here just yet, but enjoyed the thread so far

Sometimes, when I get depressed, I appreciate the simple fact that I can be depressed.

Well, I haven't seen a poll that says that corporation wants libertarianism (if they did, why doesn't the libertarian party get all the contributions?).

As it is now the government in the US and the governments of Europe are on the side of the corporations against the people. Obama is spending more money on war and military (ie: buying crap from the military corporations) then Bush every dreamed of. Obama is increasing spendings. Politicians is bailing out big companies and banks.

Yes, some companies are assholes. That is true, just as some people does bad things and a lot of governments wages unjust wars.

In a libertarian world the way to riches is to offer something enough people wants. In our world the way to riches is to offer something the politicians wants. What politician wants is often decided by their own personal gain. The problem is not who has the power, but the fact that anyone has the power of modern day governments. We need stronger personal rights, a stronger constitution and less government power over the people. No one has the right to tell me what to do as long as I don't hurt someone else by doing whatever I'm doing.

We must, however, acknowledge, as it seems to me, that man with all his noble qualities... still bears in his bodily frame the indelible stamp of his lowly origin.
Charles Darwin

pretty much sums it up.

The only thing I can contribute to this blog is this:
“Moral judgments are symptoms and sign languages which betray the process of physiological prosperity or failure” -Nietzsche.

We all want to be strong willed and powerful, creative and have goals that guide us etc. Those that fail (because admittedly it requires a lot of suffering) some times get miserable and bitter and their evaluations of everything around them are poisoned and biased by the way they resent themselves or the ones that are better. Do your best to feel content with who you are, struggle trying to reach the person you'd really want to be and I assure you, all this pessimism which you credit to "extreme morals" or "flawless logic" (while patting yourself in the back) will at least appear less certain. Self delusion 101: when something is not right with you, feel better by blaming everything else, find reasons to start pointing fingers so that you can feel the long lost sense of superiority.
I'm not saying that life isn't full of troubles btw

On March 14 2013 02:55 Mariuslol wrote: I feel it's fascinating when im neutral, it feels like a dream when im euphoric, and it feels as if it's always been like hell when im on a low

I can relate to that except i m not fascinated when im neutral. Its the only time i feel completely calm and relaxed and this i doubt occurs more than a few days a year
You are also right about me not being able to express myself good enough, not quite sure i can do it in my own language and my knowledge of english is nowhere near i want it to be, but at least im doing something about it now.

@ Loco

What you're doing sounds great. Except how did you get there. It feels impossible to me to be free of faith and hope and maybe the main problem is im doing only half of what you're doing. I expect the worst, but in the mean time hope for the best which often leads to a trainwreck. I cant just expect the worst since i do find the power of the mind & instincts to be ridiculously strong. Not in a way where you attract what you think like that retarded cheap attempt to score easy cash of a movie, but in a way which lets u be ambitious and pursue your goals, since if you are depressed and then even lack the motivation to get out of that state and achieve your goals you would be better of lobotomized. I dont think anyone can function properly without hope. I also used to believe that making decisions out of pure rationality is the best thing to do, but instincts happen to also be a powerful thing and im glad i take them into consideration now instead of just ignoring them. I was also about to buy some books about Schopenhauer few weeks back but i felt it would just put me in a shittier spot at this point.
I disagree about not living in the moment. Many people have already made that work and its seems like the only possible way to evolve further at least on an emotional level, problem is majority of the population is retarded so they put the YOLO concept in that too

@ lebowski
Sorry if I made it look like im patting myself on the back. You missed the part where I said im a part of that whole thing. I dont see how being a part of something that i hate makes me feel better. And I only said that about the logic because i simply cant find a crack in it which worries me and it was a provokation for someone to challenge it.
Just did bad cause the blog could be seen by 2 different point of views which are both right: 1 - type that would take the provocation and reply to it and 2- type that observe it and judge it.
Failing proccess could lead to selfdestruction if one does not have the proper mental setup to deal with it and the more it occurs the harder it is to protect the positive mental status where in the end it becomes a closed circle of failz.
I probably came off as an majorly angry person that, but its because I wrote this im not like that at all. And i did set some questions that i need to discuss in an anonymous surroundings, but with people that actually use their brains before writing . I always blame myself for any fail I have untill perfection which probably is the main problem. Consdering I am trying judge anything at all less, since judging is the easiest solution, Im guessing i made a few steps back in that direction

Glad the thread has become something interesting to read

PS. Fak of politikz dolan

On March 14 2013 07:42 ShLiM wrote: We must, however, acknowledge, as it seems to me, that man with all his noble qualities... still bears in his bodily frame the indelible stamp of his lowly origin. Charles Darwin pretty much sums it up.

Reminds me of an aphorism by Cioran which if I translate from the French would sound something like this:

"At the zoo. All these beasts have a decent presentation, except the monkeys. We can sense that man is near."

On March 14 2013 08:05 lebowski wrote: The only thing I can contribute to this blog is this: “Moral judgments are symptoms and sign languages which betray the process of physiological prosperity or failure” -Nietzsche. We all want to be strong willed and powerful, creative and have goals that guide us etc. Those that fail (because admittedly it requires a lot of suffering) some times get miserable and bitter and their evaluations of everything around them are poisoned and biased by the way they resent themselves or the ones that are better. Do your best to feel content with who you are, struggle trying to reach the person you'd really want to be and I assure you, all this pessimism which you credit to "extreme morals" or "flawless logic" (while patting yourself in the back) will at least appear less certain. Self delusion 101: when something is not right with you, feel better by blaming everything else, find reasons to start pointing fingers so that you can feel the long lost sense of superiority. I'm not saying that life isn't full of troubles btw

You're not saying that life isn't full of troubles but you want to glorify the blind force that is nature. Glorifying the struggle for the sake of the struggle. Reason is seen as betrayal of those instincts which allow us to thrive through egoism. I don't understand why you deliberately wish to look at nature as your friend or something you should obey to (except because it makes you feel good). Does "nature" really have our best self-interest in mind? (I'm aware that the language is tricky here...) Did it equip us for happiness? Why should a man be happy to be man, rather than a lower animal, a plant, or nothing? I guess what I'm getting at is why should you look at consciousness (as we know it) as anything other than a disease?

Not only that, but there is no return to innocence. Misery is the price we have to pay for knowledge.

On March 14 2013 09:19 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On March 14 2013 02:55 Mariuslol wrote: I feel it's fascinating when im neutral, it feels like a dream when im euphoric, and it feels as if it's always been like hell when im on a low I can relate to that except i m not fascinated when im neutral. Its the only time i feel completely calm and relaxed and this i doubt occurs more than a few days a year You are also right about me not being able to express myself good enough, not quite sure i can do it in my own language and my knowledge of english is nowhere near i want it to be, but at least im doing something about it now. @ Loco What you're doing sounds great. Except how did you get there. It feels impossible to me to be free of faith and hope and maybe the main problem is im doing only half of what you're doing. I expect the worst, but in the mean time hope for the best which often leads to a trainwreck. I cant just expect the worst since i do find the power of the mind & instincts to be ridiculously strong. Not in a way where you attract what you think like that retarded cheap attempt to score easy cash of a movie, but in a way which lets u be ambitious and pursue your goals, since if you are depressed and then even lack the motivation to get out of that state and achieve your goals you would be better of lobotomized. I dont think anyone can function properly without hope. I also used to believe that making decisions out of pure rationality is the best thing to do, but instincts happen to also be a powerful thing and im glad i take them into consideration now instead of just ignoring them. I was also about to buy some books about Schopenhauer few weeks back but i felt it would just put me in a shittier spot at this point. I disagree about not living in the moment. Many people have already made that work and its seems like the only possible way to evolve further at least on an emotional level, problem is majority of the population is retarded so they put the YOLO concept in that too

lolol, I feel the opposite. Whenver I read the ancient Greeks and Schopenhauer I feel very cheerful. Cioran wrote: "The more I read the pessimists, the more I love life. After reading Schopenhauer, I always feel like a bridegroom on his wedding night.” It only hits hard for those who are incurable optimists, I suppose.

I don't know how I got there, but I understand what you're saying. You are right that no one can function properly without hope, which is why I am completely sterile, but that's where I get an ounce of pride... because that's who I wanted to become... that's real superiority in my eyes. It's easy to have goals and ambitions and strive, that is the design of nature. The undoing of that is the truly hard and painful work.

Care to share with me how people manage to live in the present moment?

Who pissed in your Cheerios?

--- Nuked ---

--- Nuked ---

If I were lying to myself I wouldnt actually realize it so kind of pointless for me to reply, but i wrote badly there, what i meant was i dont expect a perfect world, but yeah i do seek fairness.
Loco if I knew ... :D Guessing its somewhere in the lines of set basic goals and priorities, manage your time properly and only think about the thing you're doing right now which increases its quality too. You gotta fill up your everyday plan. Bet im missing most of it. But that sounds like a good thing for a longrun happiness/achievements ratio

On March 14 2013 09:37 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On March 14 2013 08:05 lebowski wrote: The only thing I can contribute to this blog is this: “Moral judgments are symptoms and sign languages which betray the process of physiological prosperity or failure” -Nietzsche. We all want to be strong willed and powerful, creative and have goals that guide us etc. Those that fail (because admittedly it requires a lot of suffering) some times get miserable and bitter and their evaluations of everything around them are poisoned and biased by the way they resent themselves or the ones that are better. Do your best to feel content with who you are, struggle trying to reach the person you'd really want to be and I assure you, all this pessimism which you credit to "extreme morals" or "flawless logic" (while patting yourself in the back) will at least appear less certain. Self delusion 101: when something is not right with you, feel better by blaming everything else, find reasons to start pointing fingers so that you can feel the long lost sense of superiority. I'm not saying that life isn't full of troubles btw You're not saying that life isn't full of troubles but you want to glorify the blind force that is nature. Glorifying the struggle for the sake of the struggle. Reason is seen as betrayal of those instincts which allow us to thrive through egoism. I don't understand why you deliberately wish to look at nature as your friend or something you should obey to (except because it makes you feel good). Does "nature" really have our best self-interest in mind? (I'm aware that the language is tricky here...) Did it equip us for happiness? Why should a man be happy to be man, rather than a lower animal, a plant, or nothing? I guess what I'm getting at is why should you look at consciousness (as we know it) as anything other than a disease? Not only that, but there is no return to innocence. Misery is the price we have to pay for knowledge.

Life affirmation doesn't mean glorifying nature. Nature equals indifference, the will to live goes against that indifference; I take it you mean life? If I were to speak in praise of nature I would do so because I felt that someone makes an ill judgement somehow associated with the devine. A man has no reason to be happy to not be an animal or a plant, other than perhaps to desperately feel better over something... Consciousness as a disease is a weird thought, it makes more sense to me to see it as an accident originating in the social habits of humans. Consciousness is possibly dangerous, but only to the extent that it simplifies and thus falsifies the unconscious thoughts, emotions and perceptions (that become conscious through the effort of conceptually articulating them).
Your post raises too many hard questions for me to try to form a decent answer as a reply (supposing I could) so this is what you get =)

your reality is what you make it bro

On March 14 2013 07:02 DustySwedeDude wrote: Well, I haven't seen a poll that says that corporation wants libertarianism (if they did, why doesn't the libertarian party get all the contributions?). As it is now the government in the US and the governments of Europe are on the side of the corporations against the people. Obama is spending more money on war and military (ie: buying crap from the military corporations) then Bush every dreamed of. Obama is increasing spendings. Politicians is bailing out big companies and banks. Yes, some companies are assholes. That is true, just as some people does bad things and a lot of governments wages unjust wars. In a libertarian world the way to riches is to offer something enough people wants. In our world the way to riches is to offer something the politicians wants. What politician wants is often decided by their own personal gain. The problem is not who has the power, but the fact that anyone has the power of modern day governments. We need stronger personal rights, a stronger constitution and less government power over the people. No one has the right to tell me what to do as long as I don't hurt someone else by doing whatever I'm doing.

i mean the policies of the both the big parties have had the same-near similar economic principles of the libertarian party. That is, to deregulate, give freedom to the banks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000 which was the main cause of the 2008 financial crisis.

'In a libertarian world the way to riches is to offer something enough people wants. In our world the way to riches is to offer something the politicians wants.'

okay, so you realize that the first sentence includes what can be done in the 2nd sentence? And if all politicians we're removed, it would just be higher ups in corporations instead that make those decisions. Explain to me how in a libertarian society how these people would have to worry about accountability at all?

And yeah government is really bad i agree. That's because corporations have power over them with propaganda. politicians have to fit the exact model of public opinion to get elected. And the media is a dominate force over public opinion.

thats why i largely ignore the news and try to feed my mind with positive stuff, id rather be happy than enlightened. I get shitloads of negatives in my sales job and in poker, if you bother thinking about this stuff too you gonna be one depressed mofo

I'll have to come back to this thread when I'm sober and more awake. Me drunk? Who would have guessed it? (champagne for the pain).

Something in the air? I actually had this exact same discussion with a client today for 2 hours. It was pretty boss. The interesting part about it is that during that period even though we were discussing how absurd, ridiculous, w/e existence is, we in someway actually were completely lost in transcendence and not at all concerned with the fact that we didn't exist and then now we do for a bit and then sometime at some point we will no longer exist. He gave me a plant. I now take care of this plant and every morning when I wake up and make my coffee and examine and take care of this plant I also am not concerned about the cold hard truths of existence. Then I drink my coffee and listen to good music and look at the sun and the blue sky and the birds chirping and go on occupying myself with x, y, z and hope to recreate similar transcendence in conversation, doing, creating, being, similar to this post I am currently writing right now which if it weren't for what I had just written would not have considered my existence and even now since I am full of wine and cognac and good vibrations from the excellent spotify channel I am currently taking part in everything is pretty a ok... until it's not but for now it is so that's pretty cool.

Joe Rogan podcast helps a lot. I live in a shitty spot and honestly haven't met anybody who I can really relate with my weird thoughts before tuning in years ago. Now at least there's a bunch of people like me in tl and the jre! Problem solved

Life is so much better because Germany didn't win world war 2 and I wasn't born in Africa, the middle east or North Korea. Just think how lucky we are man and stop focusing on things you can't really solve

On March 14 2013 05:38 Loco wrote: “Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.” - Nietzsche "That human life must be some kind of mistake is sufficiently proved by the simple observation that man is a compound of needs which are hard to satisfy; - that their satisfaction achieves nothing but a painless condition in which he is only given over to boredom . . ." - Arthur Schopenhauer I go through life without faith or hope. I have long learned that it is a deceiving tool, and while deceiving oneself tends to lead to happiness, it doesn't last, and reality just hits harder after. One should keep his expectations at the lowest, as the wise Greek philosophers advised. Life is hell, even for the privileged; we vastly overestimate our capacity for happiness. You say we have adapted to technology? Nah. Our brain and its size is still almost 100% the same as it was some 150,000 years ago, but the world changed dramatically. We can't cope with the world as it is, plasticity only helps so much. We have to rely on our defense mechanisms just so that we don't kill ourselves on the spot. We can't live in the present moment, we are slaves to time-consciousness, which is to say we are condemned to torment by our very self-reflective nature. The wise men have always known that life is suffering and came up with their own ways to minimize it. Now more than ever we need to listen to their insights on human living. It's just a matter of figuring out for yourself how far you are willing to follow them. My view on life can be summed up as such: Life is hell. Try to find a room furthest from the flames.

"Happiness is not a place but a way of travelling". Now I'm not judging you whatsoever but your sayings are at odds with your own philosophy. Denying reality and "finding a room furthest from the flames" are per se in contradiction with you going through life without hope or faith...
We all have hopes or faith, and you too, or else you'd have committed suicide a long time ago. You undoubtedly picture life as a nightmare but yet, seem to enjoy it in a way. Or maybe you like to roll yourself in self-pity and try to convince that your reality is also everyone's. You might call me delusional but believe it or not, I do enjoy life and you might also consider that death is not the end of our existence as "things" (Call it whatever you want: Soul, essence, eternal energy, etc ...). Consciousness is only misleading, not because you can "sense" does it mean you "are".