fold preflop

I have no idea why you played that hand like that!!! Bad preflop. Terrible Flop. REALLY REALLY Terrible turn.

He played preflop fine but gotta bet the flop.

wow that was stupid, why would you check the flop behind unless that re-raise preflop made you think he had Kings? wich obviously you didnt.

So what the fuck was that, the only bizzare thing i could imagine is that you wanted to represetn a missed hand and wanted to TT JJ QQ make a move on the turn, but then why push since they are folding 99% of the time.

explain the tought process.

BTW are you extremely under rolled to play 1knl ?

capaneo you suck and id prefer if you never posted near anything that i did again
baal i value your opinion but you play 25nl and id rather you not talk down to me

owned

i dont get why you didn't push pf, 280 is like 1/3 of your stack

or were you trying to trap kings on an x high flop?

im pretty sure no hand calls my push on a 4th raise aside from AA...
though i guess i'll never be sure since it was ackbleh.

I think preflop is a pretty obvious move i dont get checking the flop behind, if he went all-in on the turn im guessing he wanted to commit QQ JJ or something?

anyway i just expressed how i felt the hand and then i asked you what was your tought process it would help to give a better picture of wtf happened there

Push PF or bet flop, slowplayer's justice here.

preflop when someone 3-bets and u have AA and guarunteed to be headsup postflop it's pretty standard and usually +ev to flatcall...

dont see any problem with turn

flop honestly im not too sure why he didnt bet but im sure he had his reasons

On April 24 2006 01:00 bigredhoss wrote: preflop when someone 3-bets and u have AA and guarunteed to be headsup postflop it's pretty standard and usually +ev to flatcall... dont see any problem with turn flop honestly im not too sure why he didnt bet but im sure he had his reasons

i think its good to mix it up, atleast in 1knl you might want to let people know you push pf with aces, you might trap him next time real bad

ackbleh's preflop betting is awesome though

hm
i figured if i was winning on the flop id be winning on the turn and if i were behind on the flop obviously i would stay behind. i decided i was going to go all in anyways so from the hand range i put him on checking the turn i didnt feel would hurt the strength of my hand any better or worse than it would be on the flop. on the flop hes going in with aa or kk, maybe ak. on the turn hes going in with aa kk ak and im at least getting value from qq or jj if he has them for some reason

obviously i get hit in the ass when a 7 turns but no i didnt put him on 77 in a possible handrange anyways.

HELL YEAH

i would be tempted to go all-in on this flop and i'd get called by KK and say "i had aa u fuckin fish"

so i was right you wanted to commit QQ JJ.

What about underbetting behind?

much less effective from my pov....hindsight aside
i dunno though maybe im an idiot for checking the flop or maybe ackbleh is just a fucking lucksack -_-;

The preflop is good but the whole point of slowplaying preflop when you have position is so that you play hard on the flop and get value from AK, KK (not in this case), QQ etc whatever. You cant slowplay against 77 thats just absurd it doesnt matter if he is a lucksack your only getting action from him when he turns you like that...the overcards shutdown value.

hm so if turn is queen your still raising allin?

well yes poker would be real fucking easy if i could see right through his cards while i was playing a hand wouldnt it.

i think you may be on to something there sir

On April 24 2006 01:12 bigredhoss wrote: hm so if turn is queen your still raising allin?

i told myself this wouldnt happen when i checked so i wouldnt have to worry about it
obviously it hurts my whole theory but i felt this was a viable play so i went with it

what would be the point of seeing through his cards you want to see what his cards are not what's under them

fuckin fish

On April 24 2006 00:46 PoorUser wrote: capaneo you suck and id prefer if you never posted near anything that i did again baal i value your opinion but you play 25nl and id rather you not talk down to me

I maybe be dumb but I'm not that fucked up in the brain to play AA like that!

right you just push 88 pf along with about 100 other things no self respecting player would ever do
when you get out of 50nl and there stops being all in pfs every 5 hands maybe you'll understand

On April 24 2006 01:16 capaneo wrote: I maybe be dumb

quoted for truth

There is a fairly simple solution to this hand its pretty obvious I dont see what this is such a heated thread.

On April 24 2006 01:18 bigredhoss wrote: Show nested quote + On April 24 2006 01:16 capaneo wrote: I maybe be dumb quoted for truth

he maybe be quoted in a quotation

You brought this on yourself!

On April 24 2006 01:16 capaneo wrote: Show nested quote + On April 24 2006 00:46 PoorUser wrote: capaneo you suck and id prefer if you never posted near anything that i did again baal i value your opinion but you play 25nl and id rather you not talk down to me I maybe be dumb but I'm not that fucked up in the brain to play AA like that!

ok my respect for you has just reached below zero. Get the fuck out of here.

first i woulda pushed his reraise preflop 100%

since u called and k floped ..then most of the time i think i am against kings..
never though about 77s

And. well at limits below 100nl he probably should have reraised preflop, maybe even here. But when you reach 200 -400 nl. You can not always win with abc poker ;o .

The guy got lucky, else he would have probably commited himself to the pot on the turn anyway.

And just look at it: the preflop is fine since it's really a matter of taste either to call or raise I remember actually Elky posted a really good example of that.

But on the flop it's just so fucked up play. you think he has AK you are makiin a bad play you think he has QQ,JJ you are makin a bad play. You think he has KK then maybe you are doin fine(And actually I was thinkin he has KK there reraisin preflop and checkin the flop is quite wieired so I'm quite suprised have didn have KK).

I'm sayin it's just pure dumb that you call pre-flop and check the flop with AA!

shut the fuck up youre bad.

after some reflection and thought and advice ive decided that this line would be ok vs some people (idiots) but not somebody as good as ackbleh

wait if you put him on queens or jacks isn't raising the turn all in a bad play anyway because if he had queens or jacks he'd fold to the raise and if you just flatcalled and probably just check/fold the river when he didn't improve his queens/jacks and you'd win anyway

On April 24 2006 01:24 capaneo wrote: And just look at it: the preflop is fine since it's really a matter of taste either to call or raise I remember actually Elky posted a really good example of that. But on the flop it's just so fucked up play. you think he has AK you are makiin a bad play you think he has QQ,JJ you are makin a bad play. You think he has KK then maybe you are doin fine(And actually I was thinkin he has KK there reraisin preflop and checkin the flop is quite wieired so I'm quite suprised have didn have KK). I'm sayin it's just pure dumb that you call pre-flop and check the flop with AA!

your just pure dumb
whatever you cant obviously understand my line of thinking, good or bad, to talk to me about it

On April 24 2006 01:26 Pokerintheface wrote: wait if you put him on queens or jacks isn't raising the turn all in a bad play anyway because if he had queens or jacks he'd fold to the raise and if you just flatcalled and probably just check/fold the river when he didn't improve his queens/jacks and you'd win anyway

no i dont expect qq jj to call the push but its better than getting nothing from them.

rather, he bet 250 and i had 350 left...just wanted to do it on the turn

you just pure dumb okay

came to see what all the commotion is about

way too many posts for me to read through all this garbage

i am out of my element a bit b/c i don't know ackbleh but i don't think this play is bad at all

usually don't respond to this sorta stuff but i feel pooruser needs some backup to fend off all the haters ;P

word. im not 100% backing my play but id at least like to think there is some merit to it

i think we should keep blathering until the replies count reaches 77 and then you unlist it

i still thinking why u didnt push preflop then guy has put 1/4 of his chips in already?
Getting better value from KK QQ AK, then just calling?

On April 24 2006 01:26 Pokerintheface wrote: wait if you put him on queens or jacks isn't raising the turn all in a bad play anyway because if he had queens or jacks he'd fold to the raise and if you just flatcalled and probably just check/fold the river when he didn't improve his queens/jacks and you'd win anyway

he's saying he thinks the value he gains from qq/jj/whatever by checking the flop when they bet the turn is greater than the value he loses when they hit their 2 outer and he gets stacked.

no point in not getting it in on the turn with the size of the pot and $ behind

On April 24 2006 01:21 Rocks2BeGood wrote: Show nested quote + On April 24 2006 01:16 capaneo wrote:   On April 24 2006 00:46 PoorUser wrote: capaneo you suck and id prefer if you never posted near anything that i did again baal i value your opinion but you play 25nl and id rather you not talk down to me I maybe be dumb but I'm not that fucked up in the brain to play AA like that! ok my respect for you has just reached below zero. Get the fuck out of here.

If you are really that dumb that you thought for a second that I give a fuck about what you think about me all I can say is that I hope you grow up fast!

i'm talking on the turn i'm not contesting his flop check (bigredhoss)

On April 24 2006 01:41 wolfheart wrote: i still thinking why u didnt push preflop then guy has put 1/4 of his chips in already? Getting better value from KK QQ AK, then just calling?

because they would FOLD
AND WITH AA I DONT WANT THEM TO DO THAT

then minraise duh nobody folds to those learn some poker plz

On April 24 2006 01:43 Pokerintheface wrote: i'm talking on the turn i'm not contesting his flop check (bigredhoss)

all i wanted was the $250 he bet out (if he had qq or jj) - i wasnt expecting a call from my push and it seems foolish to leave myself 300 left with a 1k pot facing a 250 bet

i am sure he wouldnt fold if u made raise to 400$

i'm not saying i'm backing your play 100% either, but i see no problem in trying to squeeze out a little more value

like i said i don't know your or ackbleh's image, just trying to help fend off the haters

On April 24 2006 01:41 wolfheart wrote: i still thinking why u didnt push preflop then guy has put 1/4 of his chips in already?

think about the value u gain from KK/QQ/JJ on a rag flop compared to pushing preflop, where QQ/JJ and sometimes KK are pretty easy folds.

On April 24 2006 01:46 wolfheart wrote: i am sure he wouldnt fold if u made raise to 400$

i like wearing signs that say im holding AA too

On April 24 2006 01:45 PoorUser wrote: Show nested quote + On April 24 2006 01:43 Pokerintheface wrote: i'm talking on the turn i'm not contesting his flop check (bigredhoss) all i wanted was the $250 he bet out (if he had qq or jj) - i wasnt expecting a call from my push and it seems foolish to leave myself 300 left with a 1k pot facing a 250 bet

mm ppl on 2+2 bitch about this a lot so i guess i'm kind of a tool but i guess pot committal makes calling kind of ridiculous, as you probably would not fold if you called and the river came a queen

or maybe you would i dont know

is this the hand with the most replies in lp.net history or is there a bigger one??

On April 24 2006 01:45 PoorUser wrote: Show nested quote + On April 24 2006 01:43 Pokerintheface wrote: i'm talking on the turn i'm not contesting his flop check (bigredhoss) all i wanted was the $250 he bet out (if he had qq or jj) - i wasnt expecting a call from my push and it seems foolish to leave myself 300 left with a 1k pot facing a 250 bet

Ok I changed my mind terrible flop and just semi bad turn(since he checked the flop I think goin all in on the turn is just a bad play if he was bettin the flop and you were pushin the turn it was %100 fine IMO)

but I still have lotta problem on the flop
can you please clear it up what were you expectin to achive on the flop by checkin behind?(When you just flat called preflop)

to

squeeze

out

$$

from

jj/qq

On April 24 2006 01:43 Pokerintheface wrote: i'm talking on the turn i'm not contesting his flop check (bigredhoss)

yes but its all kind of related.....

look at it this way, if hes going allin based on the flop why wouldn't he push the turn

Capaneo you are a fucking retard and you should be banned. No offence.

And I dont give a fuck if you dont give a fuck.

On April 24 2006 01:54 capaneo wrote: Show nested quote + On April 24 2006 01:45 PoorUser wrote:   On April 24 2006 01:43 Pokerintheface wrote: i'm talking on the turn i'm not contesting his flop check (bigredhoss) all i wanted was the $250 he bet out (if he had qq or jj) - i wasnt expecting a call from my push and it seems foolish to leave myself 300 left with a 1k pot facing a 250 bet but I still have lotta problem on the flop can you please clear it up what were you expectin to achive on the flop by checkin behind?(When you just flat called preflop)

ITS A GOOD THING I HAVENT ANSWERED THIS 5 TIMES OVER

On April 24 2006 01:55 Pokerintheface wrote: to squeeze out $$ from jj/qq

Ok thanks, finally some civilized response! But that's exactly what I'm sayin you think it is a common play that people check out of position with QQ,JJ when a K flops? Or there was a read on this particular player?

almost at 77 keep going guys

i dont know if he played the hand optimally or not but im pretty sure if anyone whos read up to this point doesnt understand his reasoning for playing it this way they are mentally retarded

On April 24 2006 01:57 pinbaLL wrote: Capaneo you are a fucking retard and you should be banned. No offence. And I dont give a fuck if you dont give a fuck.

"you should be banned" How can you scare me like that?

On April 24 2006 01:59 capaneo wrote: Show nested quote + On April 24 2006 01:55 Pokerintheface wrote: to squeeze out $$ from jj/qq Ok thanks, finally some civilized response! But that's exactly what I'm sayin you think it is a common play that people check out of position with QQ,JJ when a K flops? Or there was a read on this particular player?

I FELT THAT ANY HAND I PUT HIM ON HE COULD ONLY THINK IT WAS BETTER IF I CHECKED BEHIND AND SINCE I GAVE HIM 2OUTS IF I WAS BEHIND (AND I WAS GOING ALL IN EITHER WAY) I DIDNT MIND CHECKING THE FLOP BEHIND

If you knew you werent folding, and you wanted to extract max value from QQ or JJ why not call value bet the river?

the way you played would scream KKK to me, i think it would be harder for an overpair to fold to a river value bet if no Ace comes, wich would suck for value but its always nice to know you have the nuts.

by the way, i apologize for my first post it was absolutely donkish but i didnt read the re-raise preflop part.

maybe. leaving myself 300 just seems dumb though. i know what you mean but one 'free card' is enough

On April 24 2006 02:01 PoorUser wrote: Show nested quote + On April 24 2006 01:59 capaneo wrote:   On April 24 2006 01:55 Pokerintheface wrote: to squeeze out $$ from jj/qq Ok thanks, finally some civilized response! But that's exactly what I'm sayin you think it is a common play that people check out of position with QQ,JJ when a K flops? Or there was a read on this particular player? I FELT THAT ANY HAND I PUT HIM ON HE COULD ONLY THINK IT WAS BETTER IF I CHECKED BEHIND AND SINCE I GAVE HIM 2OUTS IF I WAS BEHIND (AND I WAS GOING ALL IN EITHER WAY) I DIDNT MIND CHECKING THE FLOP BEHIND

Ok thanks for clearin it for me. It looks like a reasonable play to me now(And btw you made the right play there since he had an underpair and he would defenetly pay you there if that turn was like a 3 or some other blanks)

All I was wonderin about is that it's so weired he re-raised pre-flop and checked the flop. But thenagain you were at the table and probably you played with him before so I can't say anythin about this player but I think generally it's a bad play to go all in against a player who reraise preflop and check the turn out of position.

On April 24 2006 02:05 PoorUser wrote: maybe. leaving myself 300 just seems dumb though. i know what you mean but one 'free card' is enough

So, do you want QQ and JJ to call or to fold on the turn?

if you want them to call it doesnt matter where you put the money sine they dont really expect to get their 2 outer, they are not paying to improve but to go to a showdown.

this is good threads ..good discussion

why would he want QQ or JJ to fold

are you retarded

oh shit 2 more posts until 77 then you gotta unlist this okay pooruser

or else it won't be cool

bump

BAM UNLIST THIS NOW

Actually I think that's the perfect play if he put him on QQ,JJ cause now he is more likly to call him on the turn since he is gettin almost 4 to 1 for his money to call.

On April 24 2006 02:10 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On April 24 2006 02:05 PoorUser wrote: maybe. leaving myself 300 just seems dumb though. i know what you mean but one 'free card' is enough So, do you want QQ and JJ to call or to fold on the turn? if you want them to call it doesnt matter where you put the money sine they dont really expect to get their 2 outer, they are not paying to improve but to go to a showdown.

at the time i was just expecting to push over and see it folded if they had qq or jj, and have ak call and kk stack me obv. it was made aware to me though that a good player will not lead the turn in this scenario without a hand that is most likely better than AA, exception being ak. so yeah, i wanted to check to induce a bet from a hand that otherwise wouldnt but i guess ackbleh and players of his calibur wouldnt bet there anwyays so the idea is more or less a waste vs very solid players, thugh i think it would work well vs idiots...

On April 24 2006 02:16 Pokerintheface wrote: BAM UNLIST THIS NOW

I say fuck it let's go for 777!

artpokers crappy hand to the rescue

On April 24 2006 02:19 PoorUser wrote: Show nested quote + On April 24 2006 02:10 Baal wrote:   On April 24 2006 02:05 PoorUser wrote: maybe. leaving myself 300 just seems dumb though. i know what you mean but one 'free card' is enough So, do you want QQ and JJ to call or to fold on the turn? if you want them to call it doesnt matter where you put the money sine they dont really expect to get their 2 outer, they are not paying to improve but to go to a showdown. at the time i was just expecting to push over and see it folded if they had qq or jj, and have ak call and kk stack me obv. it was made aware to me though that a good player will not lead the turn in this scenario without a hand that is most likely better than AA, exception being ak. so yeah, i wanted to check to induce a bet from a hand that otherwise wouldnt but i guess ackbleh and players of his calibur wouldnt bet there anwyays so the idea is more or less a waste vs very solid players, thugh i think it would work well vs idiots...

I don't know Why were you not sayin it like that to me in the first place and you just suggested to me that I should shut the hell up and stuff?

queers

wtf

On April 24 2006 01:04 PoorUser wrote: hm i figured if i was winning on the flop id be winning on the turn and if i were behind on the flop obviously i would stay behind. i decided i was going to go all in anyways so from the hand range i put him on checking the turn i didnt feel would hurt the strength of my hand any better or worse than it would be on the flop. on the flop hes going in with aa or kk, maybe ak. on the turn hes going in with aa kk ak and im at least getting value from qq or jj if he has them for some reason obviously i get hit in the ass when a 7 turns but no i didnt put him on 77 in a possible handrange anyways.

u said it all here.

btw when u say that u only get action from AK, KK, AA on the flop - doesnt it mean that u are too easily readable for him? i.e. can he be sure u have at least the king here or better? if u make him think u can play the flop without pair of kings or better, u probably can bet and still get action from lesser hand i assume....

Well even if its likely that QQ JJ will check the turn back, its alsto quite possible he will beg you have JJ and he will lead representing a hand, however you didnt answer about calling and value betting the river.

You WANT QQ and JJ in the turn, you dont care about a free card, they are almost drawing nothing, he will probably fold the river but i see him folding the turn way more often.

On April 24 2006 02:11 Pokerintheface wrote: why would he want QQ or JJ to fold are you retarded

it was a retorical question you freaking retarded fish, whats with your attitude you freaking post like a microstakes casper

do you know what a rhetorical question question is

if so please explain what it is and how that is a rhetorical question

Sometimes I just like this forum cause it reminds me of my elementry school fights!

The rhetorical question is usually defined as any question asked for a purpose other than to obtain the information the question asks. For example, "Why are you so stupid?" is likely to be a statement regarding one's opinion of the person addressed rather than a genuine request to know. Similarly, when someone responds to a tragic event by saying, "Why me, God?!" it is more likely to be an accusation or an expression of feeling than a realistic request for information.

cocky fish

On April 24 2006 02:25 Joe wrote: Show nested quote + On April 24 2006 01:04 PoorUser wrote: hm i figured if i was winning on the flop id be winning on the turn and if i were behind on the flop obviously i would stay behind. i decided i was going to go all in anyways so from the hand range i put him on checking the turn i didnt feel would hurt the strength of my hand any better or worse than it would be on the flop. on the flop hes going in with aa or kk, maybe ak. on the turn hes going in with aa kk ak and im at least getting value from qq or jj if he has them for some reason obviously i get hit in the ass when a 7 turns but no i didnt put him on 77 in a possible handrange anyways. u said it all here. btw when u say that u only get action from AK, KK, AA on the flop - doesnt it mean that u are too easily readable for him? i.e. can he be sure u have at least the king here or better? if u make him think u can play the flop without pair of kings or better, u probably can bet and still get action from lesser hand i assume....

i felt given the pf action each of our hand ranges were very limited
clearly a mistake on my part

well a mistake you cant easily avoid, he tried to take the pot right there and get lucky if you call, he did got lucky

yeah live and learn i guess

On April 24 2006 02:10 Baal wrote: So, do you want QQ and JJ to call or to fold on the turn? if you want them to call it doesnt matter where you put the money sine they dont really expect to get their 2 outer, they are not paying to improve but to go to a showdown.

flatcalling turn and betting river isn't the same as raising allin on turn because he's (usually) getting qq/jj to fold and not give them a free chance to hit their 2 outer (but obv he wants them to call).

which kind of contradicts his flop play, but i think the difference is checking the flop behind gives him a chance to extract more value out of those hands while still allowing him to get it allin on a (seemingly) harmless turn.

and also gives him room to fold an ugly turn, which is why this line would make more sense to me if he would consider folding to q or maybe j turn.

how this hand has 90 posts and my one under it has 0 boggles me

well this hand there is some room for debate on how you played, the other hand u pretty much just got jewed 2nd nuts vs nuts

On April 24 2006 02:44 PoorUser wrote: how this hand has 90 posts and my one under it has 0 boggles me

because you don't want me to post anymore

i never said no posts in my other hand was a bad thing.

Too much to read, lemme just say OUCH

99

100!

hey, pooruser is the fucking man, so all you who disagree with him can go die