So like, fold QQ?

Submitted by : DustySwedeDude

** Hand # 2589382669 starting - 2009-05-07 15:59:09
** Somebody Needs You 2 [Hold 'em] (5.00|10.00 NL - Cash Game) Real Money
RandomDonky sitting in seat 1 with €1843.00
Sacre sitting in seat 2 with €1040.00
Evil_bong sitting in seat 3 with €1244.00
Hero sitting in seat 4 with €1003.00[Dealer]
Adamsss86 sitting in seat 5 with €935.00
Adamsss86 posted the small blind - €5.00
RandomDonky posted the big blind - €10.00

Holecards
   
Sacre folded
Evil_bong raised to €35.00
Hero raised to €120.00
Adamsss86 folded
RandomDonky raised to €276.00
Evil_bong called - €276.00
Hero ???

Also, what's the threeshold for a shove here? Can I shove JJ? AKs I assume is a no brainer. If QQ is an easy ship, could this be a bluffshove with A5s?

i like calling here based on your reads

if randomdonky is a good player however I like shoving.

I disagree I don't think evil is strong at all, looks like some fishy suited hand or some dumb shit trying to see a flop 3way and hit a big flop.

so based on your reads think it's close but calling is probably better and play a little postflop.

On May 07 2009 10:31 kaboom wrote: i like calling here based on your reads if randomdonky is a good player however I like shoving. I disagree I don't think evil is strong at all, looks like some fishy suited hand or some dumb shit trying to see a flop 3way and hit a big flop. so based on your reads think it's close but calling is probably better and play a little postflop.

Don't want to comment on the hand, but the fact that Evil cold call a 4bet is stronger than cold-calling a 3bet, isn't it ?

Would Evil flat for a 3 way flop with KK or AA? I'd doubt it

From my experience Evil_bong is a nit and he will be super strong here. RandomDonky does a lot of random shit so I wouldnt mind getting it in if Evil_bong was out, but like this it suxx I dunno, fold seems like the best option to me. Well unless you 3 have been really active against each other recently in the session, then just get it in and hope

i don't think fold can ever be good because even if you call purely to setmine that is probably +EV

so yeah do not fold no matter what

On May 07 2009 14:29 [vital]Myth wrote: i don't think fold can ever be good because even if you call purely to setmine that is probably +EV so yeah do not fold no matter what

I'm really wondering : were shoving or calling the best profitable play ?

On May 07 2009 14:06 Joe wrote: From my experience Evil_bong is a nit and he will be super strong here. RandomDonky does a lot of random shit so I wouldnt mind getting it in if Evil_bong was out, but like this it suxx I dunno, fold seems like the best option to me. Well unless you 3 have been really active against each other recently in the session, then just get it in and hope

Yea kinda, but isn't he more of the stupid spazznit rather then the "OMFG I know what I'm doing"-kind of nit?

So basically if we don't think we're good we'll flat for set value/hope they've got AK and will shut down but if we feel that QQ might actually be best, should we shove? Can worse call etc? Protect our hand?

i call with position

i think myths right id call to setmine.

I'd call, setmine.... and then, flop would come rags, i'd go broke, he'd show up with aces, and i'd curse the world

boohooohoo

i'm not saying call to setmine is the best play, it's probably a mixture of calling to setmine or get it in on flops like 234, 245, 9TJ, etc. and possibly getting it in on other flops also

but i'm just saying that folding DEFINITELY can't be the best play because setmining is probably +EV

If you fold you can't win the pot

ok cool, got what I wanted.

I pushed, Donkey tank/called JJ and Evil snapped AA. Q on the turn.

On May 08 2009 11:03 DustySwedeDude wrote: Q on the turn.

ez game.

Obviously the right move cause of the Q on the turn.

Standard.

On May 08 2009 11:03 DustySwedeDude wrote: ok cool, got what I wanted. I pushed, Donkey tank/called JJ and Evil snapped AA. Q on the turn.

lol @ this hand, all 3 of you played it bad

@ least all of you sticked to your nicknames : RandomDonkey - calling a 4bet + call + 5bet AI with JJ, Evil_bong's flat call of 4bet + call is evil (still bad, he gives pretty much his hand away, would never do this with AK), and DustyLove for never ever folding the so lovely ladies

On May 07 2009 14:06 Joe wrote: From my experience Evil_bong is a nit and he will be super strong here. RandomDonky does a lot of random shit so I wouldnt mind getting it in if Evil_bong was out, but like this it suxx I dunno, fold seems like the best option to me. Well unless you 3 have been really active against each other recently in the session, then just get it in and hope

owned ... GG

fold qq dont have to see hh

i think what myth said is ok if u can play perfectly post flop (setmine odds) but as Fayth said ur going to get it in on low flops cuz we all will do it but its obv what evil has given how he plays so its a spot where u can even pass up on set mine odds (i dont know the official math just trust myth's math) given that u wont play perfectly on a miss and evil only has AA or KK

if evil had a larger range then obv much diff but he doesnt unless he was on some sort of nitball tilt

i wouldnt shove here vs evil BUT if u can turn Qs obv u should shove

it's definitely incorrect to think that, if you call preflop, you MUST get it in on low flops. if the only thing that you know, with certainty, is that it's +EV is to purely setmine, then you can just purely setmine and have the discipline to fold on 223 type flops.

there's no such thing as "passing up on +EV" because "well if i TRY to capitalize on a plan that i know for SURE to be +EV, i will just play differently than my plan and then i dunno whether it's +EV"

i mean....you have two choices. one is definitely +EV and the other is a big question mark. so you at LEAST choose the +EV one, rather than just folding because you don't think you'll be able to summon the will to avoid the question mark...

definitely important to note, if you are reading this post, that i am NOT, once again, NOT saying that a total setmine is the best play, but i AM saying that i'm almost 100% positive that a pure setmine is at least +EV, even if it may not be the most +EV option available.

and im saying most people will change their plan and stack off and cant setmine with QQ esp one with same mindset (loose aggro like Dusty)

i like both your points

pls dont argue u are making jasper nervous, as for the hand he always has a big hand so shoving is pretty bad unless you are swedish obv

but I would prob not set mine because its borderline anyway and would stack off on low flops knowing im probably beat

On May 11 2009 13:22 D_Zoo wrote: and im saying most people will change their plan and stack off and cant setmine with QQ esp one with same mindset (loose aggro like Dusty)

Yea but this is a mental problem and has little to do with game theory and such. Even though you're correct in assumeing that I spew a little with bad calls I don't think that can influence too much when we're trying to determine the best play.

Myth 1 Rest 0

On May 08 2009 14:34 ZeeRaX wrote: Show nested quote + On May 08 2009 11:03 DustySwedeDude wrote: ok cool, got what I wanted. I pushed, Donkey tank/called JJ and Evil snapped AA. Q on the turn. lol @ this hand, all 3 of you played it bad

who are you again?

On May 08 2009 15:14 ZeeRaX wrote: @ least all of you sticked to your nicknames : RandomDonkey - calling a 4bet + call + 5bet AI with JJ, Evil_bong's flat call of 4bet + call is evil (still bad, he gives pretty much his hand away, would never do this with AK), and DustyLove for never ever folding the so lovely ladies

calling is actually fine, nice try though

I never understood why HH's don't show the time it took for a player to act. How long was it for each player?

Not really sure, I think evil flatted kinda fast though.

On May 08 2009 11:03 DustySwedeDude wrote: Q on the turn.

teach me how to do that one.

call, fold on any flop if randomD cbets unless u spike Q, hes not goin to cbet if he miss completely vs 2 players OOP, he has KK/AA if he cbets, esp when hes such nit.

RD isn't the nit. Evil is the nit.

18/14 isnt nit ??

On May 20 2009 14:22 looserSR wrote: 18/14 isnt nit ??

He's tight, but he's a spazznit. He's full of shit a lot post flop and such more then the other dude. Think Joe without a fold button.

On May 20 2009 17:19 DustySwedeDude wrote: Show nested quote + On May 20 2009 14:22 looserSR wrote: 18/14 isnt nit ?? He's tight, but he's a spazznit. He's full of shit a lot post flop and such more then the other dude. Think Joe without a fold button.

Why fold when your opening range consists of AA/KK?