Maybe I have found problem but not solution

Dude I mean like the philosophy stuff Loco can cover but the way you talk about job stuff I am kind of like wow does he not realize Xyz really basic things about jobs/careers/etc. Your just like approaching the problem the wrong way and doing the same thing over and over again.

Yeah, I know.

I know a lot of people just find a career that makes the most money, has the most jobs, the most growth, the best hypothesized future, job security, the list can go on. I think about that stuff of course but with poker while the money that could be made was certainly a big draw I really just fell in love with the game. The money was maybe part of that it is tough to say how much. The strategy and complexity is what really hooked me and kept me playing all those hours. My job after poker the starting point is what got me. I wouldn't have to grind doing jobs I am doing right now but could go right into a decent wage. Maybe that came back to bite me but I was interested and fascinated by the steel industry even though some of the negatives of it really brought me down.

I really may not know xyz things about jobs/careers/etc. I wanted to be a professional soccer player in elementary school. I didn't know what the hell I wanted to be in high school. I started out as a business major that was going to do big things in business but hated the classes so picked History because I liked the one class I was in. Then I found poker and just did that. Then when I stopped playing poker I got help with a job. After leaving that job due to alcoholism I have struggled since then and yeah I have basically being doing the same thing over and over again for 3 years. I have slightly more knowledge but still no solution.

dont known dick about jobs but you ever try training for some kind of event? getting in shape to run a 5k/half marathon, swimming, tough mudder'esque events could be a good fit for you. i have trouble exercising by myself unless i have some time sensitive goal to work towards so that works for me. seems like exercising is a good thing for you and everything else tends to be easier to work out when you're healthy

i just feel like the indeed.com + work on resume thing isn't really for you. i don't think you are magically going to find a listing that is going to just be the nuts and change everything barring some additional experience/investment in your self. definitely you need to invest in yourself, right now the odds are too much against you.

general rules like, "its easier to get a job if you have a job" isn't for you either. definitely not yet at least, you are really far away i think. (newsflash, you didn't invest >$100k or whatever for your current job/industry and you are applying for entry level positions). in fact you hardly invested anything at all as mentioned earlier.

it just feels to me like you aren't spending your time well. not even just talking about the blogging. last thing id say is to not compare yourself to your siblings/in-laws, etc and do what will work for you. its going to take some time.

On September 16 2017 18:14 RiKD wrote: I know a lot of people just find a career that makes the most money, has the most jobs, the most growth, the best hypothesized future, job security, the list can go on.

Two comments:

1. I think your perception on this is skewed. If people are generally approaching their careers based on those criteria, why does the number of Education, Business, English, Philosophy, etc. majors completely dwarf the number of Math, Engineering, and Physics majors? Part of it is certainly that the former are easier, but at least half of the students in 'softer' majors could probably hack it in one of the harder ones if they really wanted to. Why don't they? A few have a genuine passion for Greek mythology, Eastern philosophy, or whatever; most don't. They make a conscious decision that the financial benefits of the latter aren't worth the effort.

My point is that your attitude towards finding a job - your skepticism about what if any career path may end up leading to a fulfilling life - is the rule, not the exception. Becoming functionally paralyzed with existential angst is a more common leak than the tunnel vision and mindless chasing of money/things, especially if you throw out the bottom 50% of IQs. This may not have been true 20-30 years ago, but it is today. The reason it's impacting you more than most is probably some combination of delusion/unrealistic expectations from poker, and the parental safety net (there's no motivator like true necessity, and as long as you're depending on your parents you won't have that).

2. What other objective criteria do you think people should be basing their career decisions on? There's a proven correlation with happiness and income (up to a point), and it holds true even for people who don't believe money makes them happy.

There's more I'd like to say on this but I have to go. Also +1 PU's sentiments about finding ways to motivate yourself to get in shape. There's probably nothing in my life that has better overall happiness ROI than taking the time to exercise and eat somewhat healthy. The marathons and stuff were never my thing but they seem to work for a lot of people, anything that gets you in the habit of being healthier is probably worth it.

You're a smart guy. I've been reading your blogs for a while. Do you not have a degree?

nvm lol

One thing One day at a time! GL

First, I love your attitude. I've been reading your depressing blogs for god knows how long. You've come a long way in shifting your mindset.

It's great that you've identified the problem. Now what's the solution? It's hard to answer because everybody has the same struggles and lives their own journey.

I agree with bigredhoss on parental safety net and true necessity. I'm currently living with that handicap somewhat.



My suggestions:

Uber + Coding. Have you tried learning how to code? freecodecamp . com. Free education into some pretty decent careers. The future is internet of things, basically connecting tech to everything. So there will be jobs and with decent pay, or even top tier pay depending how much you learn. Coding is organized analytical thinking. You seem smart enough to do it. Uber is freedom of hours. Driving and occasional conversation with people shouldn't be that bad. Figure out how to save on taxes with that on uberpeople . net.

Also, you could try audible . com. It's $15 per month for 1 audiobook per month. The best way to get info on how to solve a problem that you have no answer to is to have it fed to you by someone knowledgeable. But if that person doesn't exist, then you have to find it yourself, either online or in a book (or experience). Audiobooks can be listened to on your commute, sometimes even during work, and it's more productive than TV. Books can be like advice from people in the form of a book, rather than a forum post. Find the right book and info to put you in an even better mindset for success.

Good luck. I look forward to your next forum post when you take another step towards your ideal life.

You just have to own it up man, sometimes you just have to do something that you don't like and just put yourself out there. Meanwhile you can start learning some coding or develop some skills that are desired in the job market now. No job will appear out of nowhere, giving you big bucks, low hours of work and also enjoyable.

why are you trying these menial jobs that you dont like?, dont get me wrong I can see the appeal and the peace of simple manual labor but it has to be something you enjoy.

For example if I were looking for a simple job I'd probably get training and get a job in a mechanical shop or woodworking or something like that, dont look for job offering look for what area you like, learn the craft and then find the job and leave these mindless boring jobs for unfortunate people who cant do any better

On September 16 2017 20:40 PoorUser wrote: dont known dick about jobs but you ever try training for some kind of event? getting in shape to run a 5k/half marathon, swimming, tough mudder'esque events could be a good fit for you. i have trouble exercising by myself unless i have some time sensitive goal to work towards so that works for me. seems like exercising is a good thing for you and everything else tends to be easier to work out when you're healthy

I think the tough mudder + spartan route might be a way. I am really pretty content to take 30min - 1 hr walks about 3x a week but I am a bit overweight and I seem to always have issues moderating my diet. I can't outrun my mouth but like in jiu jitsu when I was burning calories and training it motivated me to eat better and I lost weight and felt better too. I could probably meet other people training for these events which would be a win win. Plus, training 5x a week just means I feel better than I normally would 5x a week. Good suggestion. I don't know if I will follow through but ideally I would do something like this.

On September 16 2017 22:44 hiems wrote: i just feel like the indeed.com + work on resume thing isn't really for you. i don't think you are magically going to find a listing that is going to just be the nuts and change everything barring some additional experience/investment in your self. definitely you need to invest in yourself, right now the odds are too much against you. general rules like, "its easier to get a job if you have a job" isn't for you either. definitely not yet at least, you are really far away i think. (newsflash, you didn't invest >$100k or whatever for your current job/industry and you are applying for entry level positions). in fact you hardly invested anything at all as mentioned earlier. it just feels to me like you aren't spending your time well. not even just talking about the blogging. last thing id say is to not compare yourself to your siblings/in-laws, etc and do what will work for you. its going to take some time.

$100k seems a bit high. Give an example of $100k that is not Doctor or Lawyer or other going to prestigious private schools. I guess you add in post-graduate. How does one even spend a ton outside of school?

I mean I have invested in an education. A liberal arts education. One problem may be that I am not looking into fields relating to history. That might help me. I never had a real passion for history though. I just thought it was cool to learn and discuss some of that stuff and then arguing things in papers from the eyes of a history detective came natural to me. It's not like I have aspirations to be an electrical engineer. The problem is I don't know what my aspirations are.

On September 17 2017 00:46 bigredhoss wrote: Show nested quote + On September 16 2017 18:14 RiKD wrote: I know a lot of people just find a career that makes the most money, has the most jobs, the most growth, the best hypothesized future, job security, the list can go on. Two comments: 1. I think your perception on this is skewed. If people are generally approaching their careers based on those criteria, why does the number of Education, Business, English, Philosophy, etc. majors completely dwarf the number of Math, Engineering, and Physics majors? Part of it is certainly that the former are easier, but at least half of the students in 'softer' majors could probably hack it in one of the harder ones if they really wanted to. Why don't they? A few have a genuine passion for Greek mythology, Eastern philosophy, or whatever; most don't. They make a conscious decision that the financial benefits of the latter aren't worth the effort. My point is that your attitude towards finding a job - your skepticism about what if any career path may end up leading to a fulfilling life - is the rule, not the exception. Becoming functionally paralyzed with existential angst is a more common leak than the tunnel vision and mindless chasing of money/things, especially if you throw out the bottom 50% of IQs. This may not have been true 20-30 years ago, but it is today. The reason it's impacting you more than most is probably some combination of delusion/unrealistic expectations from poker, and the parental safety net (there's no motivator like true necessity, and as long as you're depending on your parents you won't have that). 2. What other objective criteria do you think people should be basing their career decisions on? There's a proven correlation with happiness and income (up to a point), and it holds true even for people who don't believe money makes them happy. There's more I'd like to say on this but I have to go. Also +1 PU's sentiments about finding ways to motivate yourself to get in shape. There's probably nothing in my life that has better overall happiness ROI than taking the time to exercise and eat somewhat healthy. The marathons and stuff were never my thing but they seem to work for a lot of people, anything that gets you in the habit of being healthier is probably worth it.

I didn't mean that was the only criteria. There is always the do what you are passionate about crowd and then there is the make money crowd. In reality it should always be a negotiation of these things. I think in my life I was probably happiest when I was making low six figures doing something I was at times passionate about and had a lot of freedom. There are a lot of other qualities of that time that led to that. I could live wherever I wanted, I had great friends, I could more or less do what I wanted to do. Looking back though I was seemingly just as happy getting clean and sober in Pittsburgh. Again, I had great friends and the lack of money just did not matter in those circles. Whether people had money or not we all just sort of did the same things. Some people could afford a pricey steakhouse but most nights we would just converse at a diner. AA meetings gave me something to do among other things. My income was like $20,000/yr and I was happy. I could see bumping that up to $40,000 so I could get my own place and have a little more flexibility and as long as I have some great friends and a job I didn't dread going to life could be pretty good.

I agree that the parental safety net is holding me back but it is a tricky one. I have a lot of mental illness and a drinking problem. The last time I was on my own (in my own apartment) was sheer hell. I don't know if it is related but my parents are out of town and I have really been having a bad time at work and I am having panic attacks. It is like my parents are my best friends and I know that is not ideal and I know getting shelter from them is not ideal. At least I am not getting money from them but I am just kind of squeaking by in a job I don't like. I am doing my best but I can't see myself moving out and supporting myself at the job I am in. Quitting obviously hurts the money flow. I agree with hiems that the indeed.com + working on my resume thing just seems to get me into these dead end situations but I need to be doing something.

2. What other objective criteria do you think people should be basing their career decisions on? There's a proven correlation with happiness and income (up to a point), and it holds true even for people who don't believe money makes them happy.

The most convincing thing I have seen from some Harvard psychologist was that money and happiness are very much linked up until about $40,000 - $75,000 and after that people don't know what to do with it.

I have a good friend who makes about $30,000 a year. I think he may be a bit happier on $40,000 but I don't think it is that much of a deal. He leads a pretty full and happy life but I have seen that he can be a bit handcuffed on where to go out to eat or wanting to travel somewhere.

My brother's household income is about $200,000 or maybe even more. He just buys like houses that are too big for him and a bunch of stuff. He has all this yard work to do. So, I think he is generally pretty happy but I don't know what they are doing. Maybe they are trying to retire early like my sister in law's parents did but then what do you do with your time. What I am saying is my brother seems just as happy as when he was a broke PhD student. Honestly, my brother I think is happiest just being left alone and playing video games. It has been the same since he was coming over to my friends house just so he could play Nintendo all day.

On the other hand I think my dad gets it right. Before he retired and got an even better consulting gig he was making $300,000 + bonuses. It helped that he loved his job. That is a serious luckbox. It is also probably part of why he could move up in the industry the way he did. Anyways, he had a large home when the 4 children were growing up but then downsized. The thing is I think my parents actually do make the extra money go far. They love to travel and are pretty much free to travel wherever they want. It helps that my dad is the highest level vip at all the airlines. This is stuff that goes far. So, I would say they are a lot happier.

I heard it said once that the curve would look like steps. $40,000 - $75,000 is all about the same maybe even going up more than that. $500,000 gives a lot of freedom. $2 mil and there aren't a lot of things off the table. $10 mil you can retire and do pretty much whatever you want to do. $100 mil is like freeroll life, private jets, big time f u money.

At this point in my life I would have to get pretty lucky to make more than $500k a year so I really should just be focusing on getting somewhere in that $40,000 -$75,000 range and crafting a life around that.

On September 17 2017 02:07 TheTrees wrote: You're a smart guy. I've been reading your blogs for a while. Do you not have a degree?

I have a History degree from The Ohio State University

I really hate that they say "The" but that is actually what is proper.

On September 17 2017 11:10 wobbly_au wrote: One thing One day at a time! GL

Wobbly,

What's up man? Good to see you back.

I can't tell if you mean "One thing at a time, one day at a time" or "Focus on one thing each day, every day" or "Focus on one thing and one thing only over days"?

On September 17 2017 12:57 Nitewin wrote: First, I love your attitude. I've been reading your depressing blogs for god knows how long. You've come a long way in shifting your mindset. It's great that you've identified the problem. Now what's the solution? It's hard to answer because everybody has the same struggles and lives their own journey. I agree with bigredhoss on parental safety net and true necessity. I'm currently living with that handicap somewhat. My suggestions: Uber + Coding. Have you tried learning how to code? freecodecamp . com. Free education into some pretty decent careers. The future is internet of things, basically connecting tech to everything. So there will be jobs and with decent pay, or even top tier pay depending how much you learn. Coding is organized analytical thinking. You seem smart enough to do it. Uber is freedom of hours. Driving and occasional conversation with people shouldn't be that bad. Figure out how to save on taxes with that on uberpeople . net. Also, you could try audible . com. It's $15 per month for 1 audiobook per month. The best way to get info on how to solve a problem that you have no answer to is to have it fed to you by someone knowledgeable. But if that person doesn't exist, then you have to find it yourself, either online or in a book (or experience). Audiobooks can be listened to on your commute, sometimes even during work, and it's more productive than TV. Books can be like advice from people in the form of a book, rather than a forum post. Find the right book and info to put you in an even better mindset for success. Good luck. I look forward to your next forum post when you take another step towards your ideal life.

People have been telling me I should code since 2010 and I have just never done it. I don't know what it is I just have a block there or something. Computer science 200 was the worst I did in any class ever. I just couldn't pay attention until I just stopped going to class completely. I was always very good in math but it is like you get a computer involved and I get a serious aversion to it.

On September 17 2017 14:14 napoleono wrote: No job will appear out of nowhere, giving you big bucks, low hours of work and also enjoyable.

I wish it was false but so so true

On September 18 2017 04:17 Baalim wrote: why are you trying these menial jobs that you dont like?, dont get me wrong I can see the appeal and the peace of simple manual labor but it has to be something you enjoy. For example if I were looking for a simple job I'd probably get training and get a job in a mechanical shop or woodworking or something like that, dont look for job offering look for what area you like, learn the craft and then find the job and leave these mindless boring jobs for unfortunate people who cant do any better

Yes, I need to get out of the cycle of trying out these menial jobs that I don't like. It is crazy that I did not really see that pattern until making this thread.

On September 18 2017 18:22 RiKD wrote: Show nested quote + On September 17 2017 00:46 bigredhoss wrote:   On September 16 2017 18:14 RiKD wrote: I know a lot of people just find a career that makes the most money, has the most jobs, the most growth, the best hypothesized future, job security, the list can go on. Two comments: 1. I think your perception on this is skewed. If people are generally approaching their careers based on those criteria, why does the number of Education, Business, English, Philosophy, etc. majors completely dwarf the number of Math, Engineering, and Physics majors? Part of it is certainly that the former are easier, but at least half of the students in 'softer' majors could probably hack it in one of the harder ones if they really wanted to. Why don't they? A few have a genuine passion for Greek mythology, Eastern philosophy, or whatever; most don't. They make a conscious decision that the financial benefits of the latter aren't worth the effort. My point is that your attitude towards finding a job - your skepticism about what if any career path may end up leading to a fulfilling life - is the rule, not the exception. Becoming functionally paralyzed with existential angst is a more common leak than the tunnel vision and mindless chasing of money/things, especially if you throw out the bottom 50% of IQs. This may not have been true 20-30 years ago, but it is today. The reason it's impacting you more than most is probably some combination of delusion/unrealistic expectations from poker, and the parental safety net (there's no motivator like true necessity, and as long as you're depending on your parents you won't have that). 2. What other objective criteria do you think people should be basing their career decisions on? There's a proven correlation with happiness and income (up to a point), and it holds true even for people who don't believe money makes them happy. There's more I'd like to say on this but I have to go. Also +1 PU's sentiments about finding ways to motivate yourself to get in shape. There's probably nothing in my life that has better overall happiness ROI than taking the time to exercise and eat somewhat healthy. The marathons and stuff were never my thing but they seem to work for a lot of people, anything that gets you in the habit of being healthier is probably worth it. I didn't mean that was the only criteria. There is always the do what you are passionate about crowd and then there is the make money crowd. In reality it should always be a negotiation of these things. I think in my life I was probably happiest when I was making low six figures doing something I was at times passionate about and had a lot of freedom. There are a lot of other qualities of that time that led to that. I could live wherever I wanted, I had great friends, I could more or less do what I wanted to do. Looking back though I was seemingly just as happy getting clean and sober in Pittsburgh. Again, I had great friends and the lack of money just did not matter in those circles. Whether people had money or not we all just sort of did the same things. Some people could afford a pricey steakhouse but most nights we would just converse at a diner. AA meetings gave me something to do among other things. My income was like $20,000/yr and I was happy. I could see bumping that up to $40,000 so I could get my own place and have a little more flexibility and as long as I have some great friends and a job I didn't dread going to life could be pretty good. I agree that the parental safety net is holding me back but it is a tricky one. I have a lot of mental illness and a drinking problem. The last time I was on my own (in my own apartment) was sheer hell. I don't know if it is related but my parents are out of town and I have really been having a bad time at work and I am having panic attacks. It is like my parents are my best friends and I know that is not ideal and I know getting shelter from them is not ideal. At least I am not getting money from them but I am just kind of squeaking by in a job I don't like. I am doing my best but I can't see myself moving out and supporting myself at the job I am in. Quitting obviously hurts the money flow. I agree with hiems that the indeed.com + working on my resume thing just seems to get me into these dead end situations but I need to be doing something.   2. What other objective criteria do you think people should be basing their career decisions on? There's a proven correlation with happiness and income (up to a point), and it holds true even for people who don't believe money makes them happy. The most convincing thing I have seen from some Harvard psychologist was that money and happiness are very much linked up until about $40,000 - $75,000 and after that people don't know what to do with it. I have a good friend who makes about $30,000 a year. I think he may be a bit happier on $40,000 but I don't think it is that much of a deal. He leads a pretty full and happy life but I have seen that he can be a bit handcuffed on where to go out to eat or wanting to travel somewhere. My brother's household income is about $200,000 or maybe even more. He just buys like houses that are too big for him and a bunch of stuff. He has all this yard work to do. So, I think he is generally pretty happy but I don't know what they are doing. Maybe they are trying to retire early like my sister in law's parents did but then what do you do with your time. What I am saying is my brother seems just as happy as when he was a broke PhD student. Honestly, my brother I think is happiest just being left alone and playing video games. It has been the same since he was coming over to my friends house just so he could play Nintendo all day. On the other hand I think my dad gets it right. Before he retired and got an even better consulting gig he was making $300,000 + bonuses. It helped that he loved his job. That is a serious luckbox. It is also probably part of why he could move up in the industry the way he did. Anyways, he had a large home when the 4 children were growing up but then downsized. The thing is I think my parents actually do make the extra money go far. They love to travel and are pretty much free to travel wherever they want. It helps that my dad is the highest level vip at all the airlines. This is stuff that goes far. So, I would say they are a lot happier. I heard it said once that the curve would look like steps. $40,000 - $75,000 is all about the same maybe even going up more than that. $500,000 gives a lot of freedom. $2 mil and there aren't a lot of things off the table. $10 mil you can retire and do pretty much whatever you want to do. $100 mil is like freeroll life, private jets, big time f u money. At this point in my life I would have to get pretty lucky to make more than $500k a year so I really should just be focusing on getting somewhere in that $40,000 -$75,000 range and crafting a life around that.

I'm not suggesting income is the be-all end-all. Just that when you're trying to think about a career plan (even a very vague one) it makes sense to make money + job security the biggest priorities, in absence of finding something you love (or even like) to do. Having been in the position of making $20-25k/year before, I can say life pretty much sucks unless you have an ideal combination of other factors as you seemed to at one point. Unless there's something about a particular low-paying job that brings other positives into your life, might as well try to move on up.

If we're thinking of the same study, it showed that there was actually a significant difference between $40k and $75k (but 75k was where happiness returns start to diminish). The 75k figure was also a national average and varies by state, and I would guess further varies by socioeconomic status. So given what you've shared about your family background maybe the threshold is significantly higher? It also found that while people's emotional well-being didn't improve much past 75k, people's self-assessment of their lives improved up to 200k. I have to admit I don't really understand how the latter can't be considered a part of the former, but oh well. Anyway, the income levels would be relevant to you so that was my main point.

I think you've mentioned you used to work at a steel company and quit. Do you think you would have quit if it weren't for poker?

I think i would be substantially more happy earning 1 million a year than 60k. It would give me a mindset of complete freedom, knowing that i never have to be a wage slave ever again, and i can afford to be free of various institutions that i dislike being shackled by. The only downside would be knowing the ridiculous criminality of earning that much a year haha.

On September 18 2017 20:35 bigredhoss wrote: Show nested quote + On September 18 2017 18:22 RiKD wrote:   On September 17 2017 00:46 bigredhoss wrote:   On September 16 2017 18:14 RiKD wrote: I know a lot of people just find a career that makes the most money, has the most jobs, the most growth, the best hypothesized future, job security, the list can go on. Two comments: 1. I think your perception on this is skewed. If people are generally approaching their careers based on those criteria, why does the number of Education, Business, English, Philosophy, etc. majors completely dwarf the number of Math, Engineering, and Physics majors? Part of it is certainly that the former are easier, but at least half of the students in 'softer' majors could probably hack it in one of the harder ones if they really wanted to. Why don't they? A few have a genuine passion for Greek mythology, Eastern philosophy, or whatever; most don't. They make a conscious decision that the financial benefits of the latter aren't worth the effort. My point is that your attitude towards finding a job - your skepticism about what if any career path may end up leading to a fulfilling life - is the rule, not the exception. Becoming functionally paralyzed with existential angst is a more common leak than the tunnel vision and mindless chasing of money/things, especially if you throw out the bottom 50% of IQs. This may not have been true 20-30 years ago, but it is today. The reason it's impacting you more than most is probably some combination of delusion/unrealistic expectations from poker, and the parental safety net (there's no motivator like true necessity, and as long as you're depending on your parents you won't have that). 2. What other objective criteria do you think people should be basing their career decisions on? There's a proven correlation with happiness and income (up to a point), and it holds true even for people who don't believe money makes them happy. There's more I'd like to say on this but I have to go. Also +1 PU's sentiments about finding ways to motivate yourself to get in shape. There's probably nothing in my life that has better overall happiness ROI than taking the time to exercise and eat somewhat healthy. The marathons and stuff were never my thing but they seem to work for a lot of people, anything that gets you in the habit of being healthier is probably worth it. I didn't mean that was the only criteria. There is always the do what you are passionate about crowd and then there is the make money crowd. In reality it should always be a negotiation of these things. I think in my life I was probably happiest when I was making low six figures doing something I was at times passionate about and had a lot of freedom. There are a lot of other qualities of that time that led to that. I could live wherever I wanted, I had great friends, I could more or less do what I wanted to do. Looking back though I was seemingly just as happy getting clean and sober in Pittsburgh. Again, I had great friends and the lack of money just did not matter in those circles. Whether people had money or not we all just sort of did the same things. Some people could afford a pricey steakhouse but most nights we would just converse at a diner. AA meetings gave me something to do among other things. My income was like $20,000/yr and I was happy. I could see bumping that up to $40,000 so I could get my own place and have a little more flexibility and as long as I have some great friends and a job I didn't dread going to life could be pretty good. I agree that the parental safety net is holding me back but it is a tricky one. I have a lot of mental illness and a drinking problem. The last time I was on my own (in my own apartment) was sheer hell. I don't know if it is related but my parents are out of town and I have really been having a bad time at work and I am having panic attacks. It is like my parents are my best friends and I know that is not ideal and I know getting shelter from them is not ideal. At least I am not getting money from them but I am just kind of squeaking by in a job I don't like. I am doing my best but I can't see myself moving out and supporting myself at the job I am in. Quitting obviously hurts the money flow. I agree with hiems that the indeed.com + working on my resume thing just seems to get me into these dead end situations but I need to be doing something.   2. What other objective criteria do you think people should be basing their career decisions on? There's a proven correlation with happiness and income (up to a point), and it holds true even for people who don't believe money makes them happy. The most convincing thing I have seen from some Harvard psychologist was that money and happiness are very much linked up until about $40,000 - $75,000 and after that people don't know what to do with it. I have a good friend who makes about $30,000 a year. I think he may be a bit happier on $40,000 but I don't think it is that much of a deal. He leads a pretty full and happy life but I have seen that he can be a bit handcuffed on where to go out to eat or wanting to travel somewhere. My brother's household income is about $200,000 or maybe even more. He just buys like houses that are too big for him and a bunch of stuff. He has all this yard work to do. So, I think he is generally pretty happy but I don't know what they are doing. Maybe they are trying to retire early like my sister in law's parents did but then what do you do with your time. What I am saying is my brother seems just as happy as when he was a broke PhD student. Honestly, my brother I think is happiest just being left alone and playing video games. It has been the same since he was coming over to my friends house just so he could play Nintendo all day. On the other hand I think my dad gets it right. Before he retired and got an even better consulting gig he was making $300,000 + bonuses. It helped that he loved his job. That is a serious luckbox. It is also probably part of why he could move up in the industry the way he did. Anyways, he had a large home when the 4 children were growing up but then downsized. The thing is I think my parents actually do make the extra money go far. They love to travel and are pretty much free to travel wherever they want. It helps that my dad is the highest level vip at all the airlines. This is stuff that goes far. So, I would say they are a lot happier. I heard it said once that the curve would look like steps. $40,000 - $75,000 is all about the same maybe even going up more than that. $500,000 gives a lot of freedom. $2 mil and there aren't a lot of things off the table. $10 mil you can retire and do pretty much whatever you want to do. $100 mil is like freeroll life, private jets, big time f u money. At this point in my life I would have to get pretty lucky to make more than $500k a year so I really should just be focusing on getting somewhere in that $40,000 -$75,000 range and crafting a life around that. I'm not suggesting income is the be-all end-all. Just that when you're trying to think about a career plan (even a very vague one) it makes sense to make money + job security the biggest priorities, in absence of finding something you love (or even like) to do. Having been in the position of making $20-25k/year before, I can say life pretty much sucks unless you have an ideal combination of other factors as you seemed to at one point. Unless there's something about a particular low-paying job that brings other positives into your life, might as well try to move on up. If we're thinking of the same study, it showed that there was actually a significant difference between $40k and $75k (but 75k was where happiness returns start to diminish). The 75k figure was also a national average and varies by state, and I would guess further varies by socioeconomic status. So given what you've shared about your family background maybe the threshold is significantly higher? It also found that while people's emotional well-being didn't improve much past 75k, people's self-assessment of their lives improved up to 200k. I have to admit I don't really understand how the latter can't be considered a part of the former, but oh well. Anyway, the income levels would be relevant to you so that was my main point. I think you've mentioned you used to work at a steel company and quit. Do you think you would have quit if it weren't for poker?

I didn't exactly quit. I had a serious alcohol problem and mental illness (bipolar I). They were really good through out the short term and long term disability. They offered me some jobs that I would kill to have now but I was not in the right state of mind so we parted ways. Poker probably played some part in that but I don't think it was really a huge factor. Remember I was just thrilled to have a good job after poker and in many ways was fascinated and really interested in the steel industry and how steel mills worked. It all kind of spiraled out along with my drinking.

On September 18 2017 21:24 Stroggoz wrote: I think i would be substantially more happy earning 1 million a year than 60k. It would give me a mindset of complete freedom, knowing that i never have to be a wage slave ever again, and i can afford to be free of various institutions that i dislike being shackled by. The only downside would be knowing the ridiculous criminality of earning that much a year haha.

That is the thing. It is not like one can have the same life earning $60k and $1mil. It has to be some mixture of hard work and risk and talent. If I could go back to being a bag boy at a country club and earn $1 mil ...... see what I mean?

I don't think $1mil buys complete freedom either. There is a great thread on 2p2 about retiring young on $1mil and if it is possible. It turns out you basically have to hole yourself up in the house staring at the wall eating cat food.

I can't find the thread, do you have a link? seems interesting because you can make 35k/year just by sticking it in the bank

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/30...ve-off-forever-could-done-how-676914/

They assume $30k off of investments per year. Some say that could be a stretch since the person has no skill in investing. Then they piece out what everything would cost. Really cool thread. It opened my eyes that $1 million dollars really is not a whole lot. It would get someone ahead of the game for sure and an extra million sitting around with an income is pretty good (obviously). It also got me thinking about how work is something to do and filling up hours in the day. It is still important to spend the days in a decent enough manner. That is my problem with the job I am at. Cutting mozzarella cheese for 5 hours is just not a pleasant way to spend my time. I don't really want to make meatballs or italian dressing or really anything. Maybe that is how a lot of occupations go but I need to just find something that is a decent way to spend the day and covers my bills for a decent way to live my life.

That thread makes me wonder how I made $20k/yr and was still happy. I suppose I wasn't paying rent and was on medicaid and then there was just a lot of time at AA meetings and doing inexpensive activities with friends. The importance of friends can not be overlooked. I may be exaggerating just how happy I was too. Those were some good times though.

I think a lot of it does depend on what kind of job you have. I recently left academia so I have a lot of friends who get paid 25k a year to do a full time phd, and most of them find it pretty fun and rewarding to do research and teach noobs, and the 'job' has a very high degree of autonomy compared to slicing cheese for 5 hours at a time. So i mean yeah you can find low paying activities that are rewarding and worth it.

On September 18 2017 21:48 RiKD wrote: I didn't exactly quit. I had a serious alcohol problem and mental illness (bipolar I). They were really good through out the short term and long term disability. They offered me some jobs that I would kill to have now but I was not in the right state of mind so we parted ways. Poker probably played some part in that but I don't think it was really a huge factor. Remember I was just thrilled to have a good job after poker and in many ways was fascinated and really interested in the steel industry and how steel mills worked. It all kind of spiraled out along with my drinking.

Ah ok that makes sense, I was going to say something about having more distance from poker now possibly giving you a different perspective on that job (like more willingness to take it assuming you had quit), but I see that's kind of irrelevant.

Regarding the retirement stuff it seems like it depends hugely on luck/future market returns. According to this site, having $1M invested with a $35k yearly budget and a 50 year horizon gives a 97% success rate (meaning if you run a sim from each 50 year period starting from 1871-1921, 1872-1922, etc. up to now, the money will last 50 years 97% of the time). Final totals vary from -$875k to $19M which seems like a pretty crazy difference. If you change the $35k to $30k it has 100% success rate. Change to $40k and it has 80% success rate. Fun site to play around with.

edit: tried to post graph but the img got fucked up.

On September 18 2017 21:24 Stroggoz wrote: I think i would be substantially more happy earning 1 million a year than 60k. It would give me a mindset of complete freedom, knowing that i never have to be a wage slave ever again, and i can afford to be free of various institutions that i dislike being shackled by. The only downside would be knowing the ridiculous criminality of earning that much a year haha.

Studies show that hapiness and income are strongly correlated but it flatlines at about 100k a year (in the US), so the Yatch, the bahamas and the lambo doesnt have much of an impact but not having to worry about money does.

#Yatch

personally I don't believe in bipolar disorder, but I do feel like having those incidents in your past is somewhat of an issue for some jobs/fields going forward.

I think I mentioned I thought culinary field was good fit before. I mean strategically it makes alot of sense to me.

it's very friendly as a second career // eccentrics // people with demons
it's more friendly towards ppl with upbringing like yours than say, a mechanic

I suppose if you don't have passion for it can't be helped tho.

On September 19 2017 04:26 bigredhoss wrote: Show nested quote + On September 18 2017 21:48 RiKD wrote: I didn't exactly quit. I had a serious alcohol problem and mental illness (bipolar I). They were really good through out the short term and long term disability. They offered me some jobs that I would kill to have now but I was not in the right state of mind so we parted ways. Poker probably played some part in that but I don't think it was really a huge factor. Remember I was just thrilled to have a good job after poker and in many ways was fascinated and really interested in the steel industry and how steel mills worked. It all kind of spiraled out along with my drinking. Ah ok that makes sense, I was going to say something about having more distance from poker now possibly giving you a different perspective on that job (like more willingness to take it assuming you had quit), but I see that's kind of irrelevant. Regarding the retirement stuff it seems like it depends hugely on luck/future market returns. According to this site, having $1M invested with a $35k yearly budget and a 50 year horizon gives a 97% success rate (meaning if you run a sim from each 50 year period starting from 1871-1921, 1872-1922, etc. up to now, the money will last 50 years 97% of the time). Final totals vary from -$875k to $19M which seems like a pretty crazy difference. If you change the $35k to $30k it has 100% success rate. Change to $40k and it has 80% success rate. Fun site to play around with. edit: tried to post graph but the img got fucked up.

-$875k to $19M reminds me of PLO variance calculations. Variance lol indeed.

For me the crux of that thread is that $30k is really not a whole lot to live on, not working leaves one with all that extra time to figure out something to do and $30k is not going to really cover it. A lot of people live on less but not really. There are parents and welfare. Let's just say it would be hard to find a place in Pittsburgh for less than $1,000/month. That is $12,000 right there. Let's say health insurance is $500/month. That is $6,000 right there not taking into account not having to pay for anything medical related. So, $20,000/yr with out rent or medical bills is really like $38,000/yr which is a very livable wage in most places. That is like the start of having some comfort if one does not have luxury ambitions.

On September 19 2017 04:37 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On September 18 2017 21:24 Stroggoz wrote: I think i would be substantially more happy earning 1 million a year than 60k. It would give me a mindset of complete freedom, knowing that i never have to be a wage slave ever again, and i can afford to be free of various institutions that i dislike being shackled by. The only downside would be knowing the ridiculous criminality of earning that much a year haha. Studies show that hapiness and income are strongly correlated but it flatlines at about 100k a year (in the US), so the Yatch, the bahamas and the lambo doesnt have much of an impact but not having to worry about money does.

Where did you get that info?

I think it is probably more accurate than the $75k info but it is definitely somewhere in there. It also depends a lot on location. $100k in New York City trying to live like some yuppie making $500k/yr is going to be a disaster but $100k in a midwest city living like someone in the middle class is going to free someone up and go along way. $100k in Buenos Aires is basically baller status and you can do whatever you want more or less.

On September 18 2017 18:23 RiKD wrote: Show nested quote + On September 17 2017 02:07 TheTrees wrote: You're a smart guy. I've been reading your blogs for a while. Do you not have a degree? I have a History degree from The Ohio State University I really hate that they say "The" but that is actually what is proper.

Dude, you have a degree from a great school. Do you not have enough job experience to land jobs outside of the service industry?

On September 20 2017 01:55 TheTrees wrote: Show nested quote + On September 18 2017 18:23 RiKD wrote:   On September 17 2017 02:07 TheTrees wrote: You're a smart guy. I've been reading your blogs for a while. Do you not have a degree? I have a History degree from The Ohio State University I really hate that they say "The" but that is actually what is proper. Dude, you have a degree from a great school. Do you not have enough job experience to land jobs outside of the service industry?

I have some job experience. I don't know what I would want to do though. I have been allergic to offices in the past but right now a 9-5 sounds incredible.

I really don't know what I am doing with these service jobs. I suppose my first goal was to get an income to cover my expenses so my parents don't have to. The service jobs cover that. Of course, I still have to live with my parents and spend no money. My next goal was to find something in the $40k - $75k range. That goal has proven to be a bit trickier. It is possible there is something out there that could get me in that range immediately. Car salesman is one I was going for a while ago. Probably some other sales jobs. It's funny I have been having dreams that I got my old job back as Account Manager and I have been thinking a lot about that. That job was great besides some of the corruption. I just did not know how to live life back then and turned to the bottle at every turn. That issue is a lot better but so far it has not helped with what am I going to do for an income?

I don't know why I dread going into my job so much. It is just a whatever $11/hr restaurant job where I prepare food all day. People don't show up, get fired, quit all the time. What it always comes down to is that it does cover my current expenses and I don't have an idea of what else I would do. Might as well push through it. It really is not that bad. I really need a plan on how I am going to get to $40k - $75k or even just cover my expenses and a more pleasant way to spend the day.

make sous chef. go from there.

I am attempting to transition out of food and bev. Sous chefs work like 12-14 hours a day. No thanks. If anything this job was good to kind of curtail the dream of being a chef. They make it look so glamorous on tv shows. 12-14 hours a day in a hot kitchen is no joke. I just want a 9-5 with long lunches and not too too officey. I pretty much want to do what I used to do.

One thing that really strongly hit me on my walk today as I was watching a little girl completely transcended as she danced in the water was that the past is the past. It was mentioned on here before but to think that one can relive certain past experiences is a major lost cause. I will never be 24 making six figures from my computer ever again so I have to adapt and make a difference today. I think that is why this current job is frustrating because I have achieved the goal of covering my expenses but it is making me feel stuck on my next goal of making $40k - $75k at something decent or at least finding similar income at a better job. I thought I might want to be a chef and with the info I have now I don't.

I realize that posting on a website is a surrogate but it is not a horrible one. It actually causes a bit of a synergy as I can get my thoughts out here and then refine them. I have been talking a lot to people on the phone. Again, another surrogate to talking to people in person but it is all I've got right now. I realize it may diminish the urgency of finding people to socialize with but my current situation makes it very difficult to socialize in my current state. If I already had friends who were available at noon or past 9pm it would be easy but it is not easy to make friends at these times. I could just be making excuses.

I really like the move Paterson. I am basically doing the same things everyday and should look outward at the poetry in every day life. Even the poetry of mozzarella cheese. I should write a poem about mozzarella cheese.

The long highway of mozzarella cheese,
Be aggressive with the wrapper or it will cause difficulty,
1 cut, then 4 cuts,
Massage as the pieces break apart,
That is mile marker one on a seemingly infinite trip.

I don't want to keep griping about work though. I just need to remember the times of having to ask my dad for money to pay the bills. Just sitting at home all day with nothing to do but to fail at indeed.com and for the most part job searching in general.

On September 19 2017 17:35 RiKD wrote: Show nested quote + On September 19 2017 04:37 Baalim wrote:   On September 18 2017 21:24 Stroggoz wrote: I think i would be substantially more happy earning 1 million a year than 60k. It would give me a mindset of complete freedom, knowing that i never have to be a wage slave ever again, and i can afford to be free of various institutions that i dislike being shackled by. The only downside would be knowing the ridiculous criminality of earning that much a year haha. Studies show that hapiness and income are strongly correlated but it flatlines at about 100k a year (in the US), so the Yatch, the bahamas and the lambo doesnt have much of an impact but not having to worry about money does. Where did you get that info? I think it is probably more accurate than the $75k info but it is definitely somewhere in there. It also depends a lot on location. $100k in New York City trying to live like some yuppie making $500k/yr is going to be a disaster but $100k in a midwest city living like someone in the middle class is going to free someone up and go along way. $100k in Buenos Aires is basically baller status and you can do whatever you want more or less.

I dont remember precisely, TED talk perhaps, but the precision isnt important, we all know money at X ammount stop giving you happiness like, having 100 million or 500 million is essentially the same, but we usually overestimate how quickly hapiness flattens in relation to income.


So basically the only "trade" that interests you is cooking?

You mentioned it was glamorized in TV and that its really 9 hours in a hot kitchen and it sucks... then you dont have a passion for cooking, you just want to be Gordom Ramsay lol.


Find what you like to DO, not what the upper position of that job looks like.

Start by getting into a more positive mentality.
Wake up everyday and say I am grateful for life with a happy feeling and other blissful statements.
Listen to positive musics, lyrics. Watch enlighten documentary, videos and other worldly knowledge: Watch some Chinese drama. I feel Chinese drama media gets the brain more emotional than western media. Western media numbs your emotions. YouTube princess wei young. Help me become more grateful and happier with life.

These are some of the things I do to improve on life and gain happiness and knowledge.

I listen to spiritually music and watch a bunch of videos on YouTube about gaining knowledge and happiness.
I will list some good videos I have watched.

Imo do not worry about trying to get a decent job yet, improve your mentality first.
Once you open up your conscious mind, the universe will guide you to your destinations.
https://youtu.be/RLczNzWBbpE

On September 21 2017 22:10 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On September 19 2017 17:35 RiKD wrote:   On September 19 2017 04:37 Baalim wrote:   On September 18 2017 21:24 Stroggoz wrote: I think i would be substantially more happy earning 1 million a year than 60k. It would give me a mindset of complete freedom, knowing that i never have to be a wage slave ever again, and i can afford to be free of various institutions that i dislike being shackled by. The only downside would be knowing the ridiculous criminality of earning that much a year haha. Studies show that hapiness and income are strongly correlated but it flatlines at about 100k a year (in the US), so the Yatch, the bahamas and the lambo doesnt have much of an impact but not having to worry about money does. Where did you get that info? I think it is probably more accurate than the $75k info but it is definitely somewhere in there. It also depends a lot on location. $100k in New York City trying to live like some yuppie making $500k/yr is going to be a disaster but $100k in a midwest city living like someone in the middle class is going to free someone up and go along way. $100k in Buenos Aires is basically baller status and you can do whatever you want more or less. I dont remember precisely, TED talk perhaps, but the precision isnt important, we all know money at X ammount stop giving you happiness like, having 100 million or 500 million is essentially the same, but we usually overestimate how quickly hapiness flattens in relation to income. So basically the only "trade" that interests you is cooking? You mentioned it was glamorized in TV and that its really 9 hours in a hot kitchen and it sucks... then you dont have a passion for cooking, you just want to be Gordom Ramsay lol. Find what you like to DO, not what the upper position of that job looks like.

Yeah, I would watch these chef shows and be amazed at the creations. Now that I am actually in the kitchens prepping food and cleaning and I am only there for like 30 hours a week it is like no thank you. I don't even really ever cook for myself. I just like eating.

I would say I was raised in a house, community, and culture that it was always expected of me to go to college. I think most expected I would follow what a lot of men in the family did and major in some form of chemistry and go down that route. Trades were basically not even an option for me. They were more or less looked down upon. So, I never really considered it. I have now but I think I still have that bias. I did some work renovating houses and now I am not. The work dried up and I just didn't really consider looking for more. I mean the list of trades is really too long to go through. In my past I have considered being a steelworker or a bricklayer pretty heavily. I do agree that I have to figure out what I like to DO and not have bullshit fantasies of having the ultra desirable gigs overnight.

it takes simple Google search/isn't really all that high level top secret worldy knowledge to figure out that chef requires insane dedication/work. if you did not know this going into it and were all like "la de da it's so cool on tv," I don't know what to tell you except you need to stop with the bs on this forum.

It's simple but not that simple. I thought I might want to be a chef. I loosely knew that the hours could be tough and that I would have to be there from open to close more or less. I took a job in food and bev. Talking with the kitchen manager (former sous chef/culinary school graduate) and seeing what him and the general manager have to deal with I started to see the realities of what it takes. Lower levels of cook/chef you really just prep food and clean up after yourself. I have found out I don't particularly like it. It can actually be looked upon as a relief as I didn't waste money on culinary school or anything like that. I am more concerned with how to move on from here. I can cross off something else that I don't want to do but I still need to find what I do want to do.

lol OK man.

edit: nvm, misread last post

Rik hi buddy. Just had a look at ur recent couple of posts and sorry to hear ur in a situation ur not content with. don't really have any useful advice to offer but rooting for you mate. p.s. why the dislike of office jobs?

On September 30 2017 20:09 Romm3l wrote: Rik hi buddy. Just had a look at ur recent couple of posts and sorry to hear ur in a situation ur not content with. don't really have any useful advice to offer but rooting for you mate. p.s. why the dislike of office jobs?

Hi K, good to see you on here. I think the dislike of office jobs stems from a still present macho sales team position. We took pride in not being in offices but rather out in the field making the company revenue while people in the offices were simply costs. Of course that is a stupid oversimplification and I could not have done my job with out office workers. I think the other reason is when I was coming off of short term disability for my mental illness and alcoholism the company put me in an office and I had a really rotten attitude. I got put in an open nice office and everyone resented me because they wanted that office and then other times I got put into a really awful corner cubicle. It was 8 hours a day of doing safety reports. I had to write the reports for every piece of equipment in the building. Part of it was training me to understand the equipment so I could more easily transition into a job there. The other part of it is that the office was overworked and badly needed those reports done. Either way I was not in a grateful mood but rather resented everything. That was my only real office experience. I look at it now and it would be nice to have that job they offered me. It was lower in pay and status but not a terrible fit and it was mostly for rehabilitation purposes and not a permanent thing. So, I really should not have a dislike of office jobs. I think it just depends on what I would be doing and the people there. I also dislike discussing sports or traffic or the weather at the watering hole and that whole culture that can be found in offices. Vulgarian managers. I might just not like being in close quarters with all those people. Still, I would snap call an office job at this point if the tasks weren't too bad and I liked my manager.