Truth Discussion Time - Page 62

On January 30 2018 00:41 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On January 29 2018 17:33 lebowski wrote: tbh if people are to blindly worship someone anyway, J. Peterson is a massive upgrade compared to the usual choices Might seem that way if you have a hard-on for Nietzsche, until you realize he's just using him to sneak in religion by the backdoor. And if you're an atheist, don't worry, you're just deluded, you're actually a Christian if you don't go around raping and killing others. Tbh I'd rather people blindly follow anyone whose worldview isn't one gigantic reactionary conspiracy theory. Also lol:

God is dead and we killed him is interpreted as something deeply sad and problematic that only Christianity can fix! The way in which he explains this is as if that is what Nietzsche meant or should have meant is an atrocity. It's funny because his interpretation of Derrida would allow such a mangled interpretation to be passable but he gets Derrida so wrong as well. Just because there is no perfect interpretation does not mean there aren't mangled interpretations which Peterson has in abundance when he gets outside of his lane. Roderick gets it so right when he is talking about the "lesbians at Brown burning Shakespeare." This conspiracy is a joke. So, Peterson never read or badly read Derrida for sure. He poked his nose around in parts of Thus Spake Zarathustra and missed the boat. Never read Beyond Good and Evil or Genealogy of Morals. I don't know enough about Marx to comment. He obviously loves Kierkegaard and Dostoevsky as powerhouse existentialist christians. I am sure he fancies himself in a similar mold. The world is going post-modern and there is nothing anyone can do about it. It's already happening. We better be reading up on our Derrida, Foucault, and Baudrillard. Jesus isn't saving anyone. I learned the golden rule in kindergarten. I learned Kant's categorical imperative when I was like 26? Not much really changed. I have yet to this day stepped foot in a church service and I haven't raped or killed anyone. I did read Tolstoy's Confessions and his version of the gospels when I was like 31 and thought it was a great story and it did effect me a bit but at the end of the day fuck that. Just read Anna Karenina and Death of Ivan Illych instead.

"God is dead and no one cares. If there is a hell I'll see you there!" - Trent Reznor

And all the good christians can look down upon us and revel in our pain and how they are good christians and it will bring them such delight. They will all in turn be gods as that it was "GOD" does to this day. Fuck St. Thomas Aquinas, fuck their "perfect" book, that "divine" book, get the fuck out of here. Fuck super churches, fuck demagogues, fuck "God Bless America." Why is "In God We Trust" on the fucking money? It's on the fucking fiat currency. Get the fuck out of here. We could use a little more chaos to overthrow some of this covert oppressive order. Get the pigs sweating in their suits a little bit.

I'd rather follow a library of people.

On January 29 2018 19:57 Spitfiree wrote: the alt-left, in my opinion, is the biggest threat to western societies at the moment and is the path to authoritarian regimes even though people don't even think about it. Whats even worse is that the academic world doesn't even open its mind to those ideas, as he is instantly labeled as some homophobic sociopath in the media... The Canadian tutor chick scandal is a very, very concerning case on so many different levels. Its the most vivid example of laying the stones to the path of authoritarian ideas

As opposed to the very unconcerning case of white supremacists plowing into people with a car in Charlottesville?

He's never been called homophobic or sociopathic, just a crank and an alarmist basically.

On January 30 2018 01:58 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On January 29 2018 22:48 Liquid`Drone wrote: IQ is to your intellect what your BMI is to your physique. It has a lot of validity to it when talking about groups, but for individuals it's kinda meaningless - although extreme scores will show something for individuals too. It has a lot of validity only insofar as you define intelligence as a predictor of success in the precise type of society that we live in. We haven't discovered mechanisms of intelligence or a 'center of intelligence' in the brain, nor did we discover the 'principles of general intelligence' in the Ether. We've designed the tests and we can't dissociated ourselves (our intentions, our aims) from the design. With that considered, I think our notion of intelligence is a hollow one tied to our own narrow conception of what constitutes success. 'Success' here means the ability to perform -- to climb dominance hierarchies and obtain power over others (the power to consume, what else?). I say "our own narrow conception", but it isn't our own, it's imprinted from an early age by our socio-culture, we have never made a free choice to decide it.

It's not just a predictor of success though. I've also seen studies indicating that high iq increases likelihood of drug use, depression and various mental illnesses, especially when you get to the ~top 2% type of high iq. Like people with iqs in the 115-125 range statistically have 'better lives' than people in the 100-115 range, but I'm not sure that holds true when looking at 130+ compared to 115-125. For that group, there's a higher probability of 'exceptional' abilities, but also a higher chance of certain 'negative' traits.

(edit: I also agree with the general point you are making)

On January 30 2018 03:17 Liquid`Drone wrote: Show nested quote + On January 30 2018 01:58 Loco wrote:   On January 29 2018 22:48 Liquid`Drone wrote: IQ is to your intellect what your BMI is to your physique. It has a lot of validity to it when talking about groups, but for individuals it's kinda meaningless - although extreme scores will show something for individuals too. It has a lot of validity only insofar as you define intelligence as a predictor of success in the precise type of society that we live in. We haven't discovered mechanisms of intelligence or a 'center of intelligence' in the brain, nor did we discover the 'principles of general intelligence' in the Ether. We've designed the tests and we can't dissociated ourselves (our intentions, our aims) from the design. With that considered, I think our notion of intelligence is a hollow one tied to our own narrow conception of what constitutes success. 'Success' here means the ability to perform -- to climb dominance hierarchies and obtain power over others (the power to consume, what else?). I say "our own narrow conception", but it isn't our own, it's imprinted from an early age by our socio-culture, we have never made a free choice to decide it. It's not just a predictor of success though. I've also seen studies indicating that high iq increases likelihood of drug use, depression and various mental illnesses, especially when you get to the ~top 2% type of high iq. Like people with iqs in the 115-125 range statistically have 'better lives' than people in the 100-115 range, but I'm not sure that holds true when looking at 130+ compared to 115-125. For that group, there's a higher probability of 'exceptional' abilities, but also a higher chance of certain 'negative' traits.

Right, I should have said a predictor of success and the consequences associated with its pursuit or the inability (or unwillingness) to do so. My point is that we're not measuring the ability of people to "understand" (in its etymological sense) information or the structures in which they are confined.

On January 29 2018 22:48 Liquid`Drone wrote: IQ is to your intellect what your BMI is to your physique. It has a lot of validity to it when talking about groups, but for individuals it's kinda meaningless - although extreme scores will show something for individuals too.

thats a good analogy, IQ seems to be a measure of "processing power" and while that can be very useful and important its not the same as wisdom.

Ouch #1.


Ouch #2:

On January 30 2018 03:16 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On January 29 2018 19:57 Spitfiree wrote: the alt-left, in my opinion, is the biggest threat to western societies at the moment and is the path to authoritarian regimes even though people don't even think about it. Whats even worse is that the academic world doesn't even open its mind to those ideas, as he is instantly labeled as some homophobic sociopath in the media... The Canadian tutor chick scandal is a very, very concerning case on so many different levels. Its the most vivid example of laying the stones to the path of authoritarian ideas As opposed to the very unconcerning case of white supremacists plowing into people with a car in Charlottesville? He's never been called homophobic or sociopathic, just a crank and an alarmist basically.

There's no way some "movement" like the white supremacists or nazis or whatever would ever get in control anywhere that matters. People are not that dumb. If certain policies are put through in universities though, and they use them towards students to make absurd laws stick as if they are something natural, then we have a completely other case. Those are not to be compared at this point as the first is just sad but not really a threat.

When we say "there's no way X will ever happen" we are creating the best possibility for it to happen because we're dropping our guard entirely. Also, saying "people are not that dumb" seems to fly in the face of history. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Germany the most intellectually/scientifically advanced country when the Nazi regime took over? Not sure what nature has to do with laws anyhow.

There's really no comparison between Neo-Nazis injuring/killing people at a protest and liberal admins screwing up by trying to protect high risk minorities. I mean, Lindsay Shepherd is thriving right now, how can that be the worst thing going on in the West right now? Using a slippery slope argument that "if things continue it will get a lot worse because they have power in universities and can influence so many more people" doesn't justify your position at all. Anyone can imagine that any time for whatever they fear. You'll be justified in making that argument once actual harm has happened, not before.

If you think that fascism is a bigger trend and a bigger threat then try walking on the street with a swastika on your shirt and then with an USSR communist flag, lets see which one gets you the shti kicked out first.

I don't think framing it as fascism vs communism is helpful at all. For one thing, being a 'SJW' or just someone who isn't a free speech absolutist doesn't suggest that they are commies. Secondly, society isn't nearing a tipping point into either of them. When we're talking about threats here we're talking about current day to day threats, not "end game" threats. Arguing that trans activists/supporters of LGBT rights (since this is about the Laurier drama) are more of a threat to people's safety than WS/racists/xenophobes is just crazy.

Oberlin, Brown, Smith College, the list goes on and on. These cells pose a bigger threat than ISIS... A bigger threat to your bank account amount maybe... $50-60k/yr for a gender studies degree... I don't know where I am going with this. Those damn lesbians at Brown!

On January 30 2018 11:23 RiKD wrote: Oberlin, Brown, Smith College, the list goes on and on. These cells pose a bigger threat than ISIS... A bigger threat to your bank account amount maybe... $50-60k/yr for a gender studies degree... I don't know where I am going with this. Those damn lesbians at Brown!

What kind of job will this education get you thou ?

On January 30 2018 10:38 Loco wrote: I don't think framing it as fascism vs communism is helpful at all. For one thing, being a 'SJW' or just someone who isn't a free speech absolutist doesn't suggest that they are commies. Secondly, society isn't nearing a tipping point into either of them. When we're talking about threats here we're talking about current day to day threats, not "end game" threats. Arguing that trans activists/supporters of LGBT rights (since this is about the Laurier drama) are more of a threat to people's safety than WS/racists/xenophobes is just crazy.

don't muddy the waters, he didn't say "'SJW' or just someone who isn't a free speech absolutist," he said someone wearing a USSR communist flag t-shirt

if you want to make the comparison then do it honestly and assess the appropriate comparable groups, like professors who bash people at rallies with bike locks... instead of just asserting the left only ever wants equality and didn't do nothing

On January 30 2018 09:38 Loco wrote: When we say "there's no way X will ever happen" we are creating the best possibility for it to happen because we're dropping our guard entirely. Also, saying "people are not that dumb" seems to fly in the face of history. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Germany the most intellectually/scientifically advanced country when the Nazi regime took over? Not sure what nature has to do with laws anyhow. There's really no comparison between Neo-Nazis injuring/killing people at a protest and liberal admins screwing up by trying to protect high risk minorities. I mean, Lindsay Shepherd is thriving right now, how can that be the worst thing going on in the West right now? Using a slippery slope argument that "if things continue it will get a lot worse because they have power in universities and can influence so many more people" doesn't justify your position at all. Anyone can imagine that any time for whatever they fear. You'll be justified in making that argument once actual harm has happened, not before.

I'm not dropping my guard entirely, I'm disregarding the potential threat of nazis due to empirical observation in our current western society - a movement like that simply cannot gain momentum in our reality at the moment - should I really explain why to you?
If you've read Mein Kampf, then you'd realize how Hitler managed to get into power, it wasnt with brute force, it was the same subtle kind of the way the alt-left is slowly but surely suppressing opinions and thoughts, forcing people with adequate thoughts to appear ludicrous and/or mad. He got into power by exploiting minor public problems and pushing ideas that people had a small connection with so they just disregarded all the terrible parts of them.

I'm NOT imagining it, the case with Lindsay Shepherd shows us that it IS happening already. Its not something in the future. Holy shit you jump to false conclusions so fast. I'm not concerned of a potential threat in the future, I'm concerned of what is happening currently. If things were normal she wouldn't be put in this situation. Peterson wouldn't be viral if things were normal, he'd be publicly crucified on topics he clearly doesn't understand and/or understands but uses false narrative for self-purpose. There wouldnt be idiots saying "well actually there are more than 2 biological sexes" and other INSANE stuff ( by more than 2 he meant hundreds more not hermaphrodites btw)

I'm not saying the new Hitler is among the alt-left. They could certainly be abused by such a person in the long term though, and we should have social structures where such people would be stopped in the foundations. I'm all for hands holding, singing in a fucking circle, but this already got out of hand.

On January 30 2018 11:51 VanDerMeyde wrote: Show nested quote + On January 30 2018 11:23 RiKD wrote: Oberlin, Brown, Smith College, the list goes on and on. These cells pose a bigger threat than ISIS... A bigger threat to your bank account amount maybe... $50-60k/yr for a gender studies degree... I don't know where I am going with this. Those damn lesbians at Brown! What kind of job will this education get you thou ?

Best scenario is it will get you a tenured professor spot at Oberlin, Brown, or Smith College. Most likely it gets you a barista spot at the hip coffee shop in the not quite gentrified part of town living with 4 roommates or your parents paying rent for you.

On January 30 2018 12:26 Spitfiree wrote: I'm not dropping my guard entirely, I'm disregarding the potential threat of nazis due to empirical observation in our current western society - a movement like that simply cannot gain momentum in our reality at the moment - should I really explain why to you?

I used to think like that, then this happened:

Election results
Hellenic Parliament

golden dawn

2009 0.3%
2012 7.0%

These guys are as Nazi as a party can get, I'm not talking Le Pen shenanigans here. People know exactly who they are and they still support them.

They have member initiation oaths where they hold torches and swear to obey whatever the leader tells them to do. They once kicked out the entirety of the press because the journalists wouldn't rise when their leader came into the room for his speech. They have a military structure and their basic goons never act without orders from hq. They have (with proof) infiltrated the greek police, there are videos in which they train their members with guns and the minister of public order and civil protection (belongs to the right wing) has said that they have hidden caches with weapons around greece.
They're responsible for multiple stabbings/assaults over the years, yet they only got serious backlash and are currently on trial as an organization after they group stabbed to death a left wing rapper while he was eating a few years back. (When the victims where immigrants nobody really gave a shit.)

It just takes an economic depression and rampant nationalism and the real shit can hit the fan. The alt left will do what? Annoy us to death? In my book if there's no central communist party around which all the radical left will gather and follow precise calculated orders, the threat is non comparable. I just don't see these large communist parties anywhere, people could see the rise of Hitler's party that you refer to in your post, what's today's equivalent?

On January 30 2018 13:31 RiKD wrote: Show nested quote + On January 30 2018 11:51 VanDerMeyde wrote:   On January 30 2018 11:23 RiKD wrote: Oberlin, Brown, Smith College, the list goes on and on. These cells pose a bigger threat than ISIS... A bigger threat to your bank account amount maybe... $50-60k/yr for a gender studies degree... I don't know where I am going with this. Those damn lesbians at Brown! What kind of job will this education get you thou ? Best scenario is it will get you a tenured professor spot at Oberlin, Brown, or Smith College. Most likely it gets you a barista spot at the hip coffee shop in the not quite gentrified part of town living with 4 roommates or your parents paying rent for you.

hehe yeah. I think I will pass on that degree

On January 30 2018 14:50 lebowski wrote: Show nested quote + On January 30 2018 12:26 Spitfiree wrote: I'm not dropping my guard entirely, I'm disregarding the potential threat of nazis due to empirical observation in our current western society - a movement like that simply cannot gain momentum in our reality at the moment - should I really explain why to you? I used to think like that, then this happened: Election results Hellenic Parliament golden dawn 2009 0.3% 2012 7.0% These guys are as Nazi as a party can get, I'm not talking Le Pen shenanigans here. People know exactly who they are and they still support them. They have member initiation oaths where they hold torches and swear to obey whatever the leader tells them to do. They once kicked out the entirety of the press because the journalists wouldn't rise when their leader came into the room for his speech. They have a military structure and their basic goons never act without orders from hq. They have (with proof) infiltrated the greek police, there are videos in which they train their members with guns and the minister of public order and civil protection (belongs to the right wing) has said that they have hidden caches with weapons around greece. They're responsible for multiple stabbings/assaults over the years, yet they only got serious backlash and are currently on trial as an organization after they group stabbed to death a left wing rapper while he was eating a few years back. (When the victims where immigrants nobody really gave a shit.) It just takes an economic depression and rampant nationalism and the real shit can hit the fan. The alt left will do what? Annoy us to death? In my book if there's no central communist party around which all the radical left will gather and follow precise calculated orders, the threat is non comparable. I just don't see these large communist parties anywhere, people could see the rise of Hitler's party that you refer to in your post, what's today's equivalent?

Are you seroius? Venezuela is starving because of electing a leftist president, in minor degree also Brazil, Argentina's economy tanked because of leftist presidents and Mexico has election soons and the favorite is a huge demagoge from the left.

The threat of the right seems more imminent because its directly violent, becaues Nazis will curb stump your gender-neutral multicultural ass, left wingers will stop freedoms, create 100 fiscally unresponsible programs nationalize shit and tank the economy

On January 30 2018 12:14 Santafairy wrote: Show nested quote + On January 30 2018 10:38 Loco wrote: I don't think framing it as fascism vs communism is helpful at all. For one thing, being a 'SJW' or just someone who isn't a free speech absolutist doesn't suggest that they are commies. Secondly, society isn't nearing a tipping point into either of them. When we're talking about threats here we're talking about current day to day threats, not "end game" threats. Arguing that trans activists/supporters of LGBT rights (since this is about the Laurier drama) are more of a threat to people's safety than WS/racists/xenophobes is just crazy. don't muddy the waters, he didn't say "'SJW' or just someone who isn't a free speech absolutist," he said someone wearing a USSR communist flag t-shirt if you want to make the comparison then do it honestly and assess the appropriate comparable groups, like professors who bash people at rallies with bike locks... instead of just asserting the left only ever wants equality and didn't do nothing

Just because Baal interjected and changed the subject doesn't mean I'm muddying the waters by bringing it back to what Spitfiree and I were discussing. Don't assume that I'm being wilfully deceptive and not arguing in good faith. I even have proof that I do not hold the position you've attributed to me here: I mentioned this comparison with the bike lock prof several hours before your post in the comments here (first comment).