Greek crisis: Banks shut for a week - Page 6

I'm just a dick sometimes, nothing personal. Naive on your part to post trash articles and not get called out for it.

It is hard to tell truth from fiction. There are certain things, that after given consideration, most everyone should be able to agree on. You've made solid points that i agree with, especially about reforms. I don't consciously have a pro troika or anti-Greece stance. Paraphrasing an economic heavyweight: Greece is a patient in financial intensive care and is being supplied blood bags (money) to keep it going. Cutting spending can only be taken so far and recovery lay in growth. I feel like Greek people underestimate the dramatic effects of a Grexit so i'm rooting for a deal. Positioned between scylla and charybdis is no joke.

What can be done to encourage growth? What's the plan and is it achievable?

On July 09 2015 09:41 cariadon wrote:

I'm impressed of how knowledgeable of political history/ background in greece this speech is

On July 09 2015 09:41 cariadon wrote:

wtf am i watching, fucking disgusting

On July 08 2015 10:58 lebowski wrote: Show nested quote + On July 08 2015 08:50 dogmeat wrote:   On July 08 2015 06:48 lebowski wrote: capitalist lobbies read this a couple of times and think about logical fail in this idiom I wrote "evil capitalist lobbies", I was trying to be ridiculous from the left point of view to contrast with the "EU commies", I dunno what your point is

you can hardly call it capitalism when one can gain advantage on the market by lobbying

The stress Tsipras must be under... definitely taking a few years off his life.

Realistically, he's fucked either way. There's no right answer for him here. He'll be demonized no matter what happens.

Gotta say, respect to Lebowski for staying civil throughout all the attacks on his thoughts. People gotta remember he's living in the middle of the storm, and most likely influenced (as we all would be) by everything around him. The media, word of mouth, people lining up at the atm's, everything going to shit...

It's easy to say what should objectively be done, a whole other matter when you're the one who's looking at all the brutal times ahead for you and your people due to xyz measures.

On July 10 2015 01:36 dogmeat wrote: Show nested quote + On July 08 2015 10:58 lebowski wrote:   On July 08 2015 08:50 dogmeat wrote:   On July 08 2015 06:48 lebowski wrote: capitalist lobbies read this a couple of times and think about logical fail in this idiom I wrote "evil capitalist lobbies", I was trying to be ridiculous from the left point of view to contrast with the "EU commies", I dunno what your point is you can hardly call it capitalism when one can gain advantage on the market by lobbying

but lobbying is everywhere (unavoidable in capitalism according to marxists), should we inform the communists that the system they're fighting isn't capitalism?

capitalism died in 1913

On June 29 2015 00:00 Spitfiree wrote: cliffs on how this happened: Taxes in Greece are absurdly low Eventhough they are low, taxpayers dont pay them Their social system pays waaaaaaaaaay too much, huge pensions and shit Their pension age is 57 Thats not even something they cannot fix, they lack budget income and have huge expenses. Last proposal Cypras did was increasing certain taxes and possibly the pension age and EU told him to fuck off and that they dont want tax increases but budget costs cuts, which is obviously the only normal any adequate human being would want considering that even if they increase the taxes people still wont fucking pay them. Cypras however is a uber socialistic fuck that should be burned together with all of his proletariat brothers and didn't wanna cut pensions and shit so instead now they wont have money for anything. Way to go... Guess they deserve it considering they voted for him, but then again I don't beleive in voting Pipeline project wont happen since my country told Russia to fuck off and so did Turkey so they can't really reach Greece anyways Greece's administration just makes it look like they are getting bullied when in fact the EU, IMF and all of the negotiators just reached their breaking point after many many proposals. Greece was arrogant enough to ask for a release from the debt and im happy that the EU wasnt dumb enough to actually approve of that Sadly a lot of people will get fucked cause the administration are braindead egoistic pieces of shit edit: Also Defrag they are limited to 600-700eu per day per card from ATMs not 60 lawl :D problem is the banks cant keep up with money supply, considering there are queues at ATMs

Mostly correct except the statement that taxes in Greece are absurdly low. Not even close to true. This comes from the incorrect assumption that higher taxes = increased tax revenue, which is not true.

A) Because an environment of high taxes increases the temptation to evade but more importantly
B) High taxes, which Greece has had compared a purely capitalistic model, discourages risk and entrepenuership which actually creates real wealth and sustainable tax revenue

In truth, it's simply that their economies import/export ratio is pathetic, which means that in order to keep their quality of life from lowering relative to other nations, they needed to borrow or balance their deficit. Instead of sucking in up and creating real economic growth through short-term painful change, they chose the easy way out (like most fiscally progressive entities do) and borrowed irresponsibly because that's what the stupid people want and that's what they'll vote for.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/30/bus...ook/the-hard-line-on-greece.html?_r=0
really interesting article

I haven't followed the Greek crisis, but I stumbled upon this recent video after I watched a different video on the same YouTube channel.

The video probably doesn't add anything new to the conversation, but it is new for me because, as I previously stated, I haven't followed the Greek crisis up until now.

On July 10 2015 09:58 lebowski wrote: Show nested quote + On July 10 2015 01:36 dogmeat wrote:   On July 08 2015 10:58 lebowski wrote:   On July 08 2015 08:50 dogmeat wrote:   On July 08 2015 06:48 lebowski wrote: capitalist lobbies read this a couple of times and think about logical fail in this idiom I wrote "evil capitalist lobbies", I was trying to be ridiculous from the left point of view to contrast with the "EU commies", I dunno what your point is you can hardly call it capitalism when one can gain advantage on the market by lobbying but lobbying is everywhere (unavoidable in capitalism according to marxists), should we inform the communists that the system they're fighting isn't capitalism?

The fuck are you talking about, actually it is a minority of countries who allow private funding to politicians, in most democracies that is a serious crime and political parties are funded by taxes.

And yes a state heavily controlled, wallstreet manipulated and central bank funded economy is certainly not capitalism

And yes a state heavily controlled, wallstreet manipulated and central bank funded economy is certainly not capitalism

But there is a new economy emerging now, and its not centrally banked. And although wallstreet has tried to get involved. The new regulations basically restrict it from participated in this new not central banked economy.

On August 10 2015 03:58 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On July 10 2015 09:58 lebowski wrote:   On July 10 2015 01:36 dogmeat wrote:   On July 08 2015 10:58 lebowski wrote:   On July 08 2015 08:50 dogmeat wrote:   On July 08 2015 06:48 lebowski wrote: capitalist lobbies read this a couple of times and think about logical fail in this idiom I wrote "evil capitalist lobbies", I was trying to be ridiculous from the left point of view to contrast with the "EU commies", I dunno what your point is you can hardly call it capitalism when one can gain advantage on the market by lobbying but lobbying is everywhere (unavoidable in capitalism according to marxists), should we inform the communists that the system they're fighting isn't capitalism? The fuck are you talking about, actually it is a minority of countries who allow private funding to politicians, in most democracies that is a serious crime and political parties are funded by taxes. And yes a state heavily controlled, wallstreet manipulated and central bank funded economy is certainly not capitalism

Just because private funding for political parties is regulated/not permitted you think there's no lobbying? Do I really need to start mentioning examples?
Maybe there's no political corruption in mexico and I'm influenced by what's happening in Greece, do you find that regulations tend to keep the media independent and unbiased as well?

Words are only tools to describe stuff, to try and give a popularly used word a new, different meaning is simply non practical; usually the main (political) motivation to try to reestablish a word's meaning is that stupid people tend to think in slogans. (eg "terrorism" )
Capitalism is a word that has been broadly used for hundreds of years describing something other than the corruption/lobby/state free utopia that you have in mind. Assuming that you don't think ill of this forum's avg IQ, focusing on the orthodox definition of words is completely pointless

your ignorance puts me on tilt, basically everything you spewed out in this thread was nonsense

i call you a retard, assuming that you don't think ill of this forum's avg IQ, focusing on the orthodox definition of a retard is completely pointless

it's an honour to be called a retard by you man.
If you wish you can correct my ignorance on my last post (all of them would be too much)

I don't give a single fuck on what you think this system should be called, or what capitalism really is according to your unique pov . All I know is that most people call it capitalism and that's why I used this word. Words are tools.
Now go somewhere to personally attack someone who values your opinions

I just read the last two pages and I wont comment on the specific situation in Greece but imo it is obvious that some people here have different ideas about what capitalism is. So I think it might be a good idea to set a basis that everyone should agree one.
Iam gonna quote Wikipedia for Capitalism here:

"Capitalism is an economic system and a mode of production in which trade, industries, and the means of production are largely or entirely privately owned. Private firms and proprietorships usually operate in order to generate profit, but may operate as private nonprofit organizations.[1][2] Central characteristics of capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labour and, in some situations, fully competitive markets.[3][4] In a capitalist economy, the parties to a transaction typically determine the prices at which they exchange assets, goods, and services.[5]"
Source: first lines of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

Of course this should be common knowledge to everyone that is commenting on capitalism in this thread by reading along the comments I got a feeling that some of the posters are definitely not aware of the "definition".

On August 10 2015 13:55 punix wrote:In a capitalist economy, the parties to a transaction typically determine the prices at which they exchange assets, goods, and services.[5]"

wage, price settings, protectionism, tariffs +billion of other regulations,
special mention: central banking

On August 10 2015 13:55 punix wrote: I just read the last two pages and I wont comment on the specific situation in Greece but imo it is obvious that some people here have different ideas about what capitalism is. So I think it might be a good idea to set a basis that everyone should agree one. Iam gonna quote Wikipedia for Capitalism here: "Capitalism is an economic system and a mode of production in which trade, industries, and the means of production are largely or entirely privately owned. Private firms and proprietorships usually operate in order to generate profit, but may operate as private nonprofit organizations.[1][2] Central characteristics of capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labour and, in some situations, fully competitive markets.[3][4] In a capitalist economy, the parties to a transaction typically determine the prices at which they exchange assets, goods, and services.[5]" Source: first lines of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism Of course this should be common knowledge to everyone that is commenting on capitalism in this thread by reading along the comments I got a feeling that some of the posters are definitely not aware of the "definition".

apparently this system died in 1913
beware not to put dogmeat on tilt with your copied definitions, he has a short temper