UFC 187: Johnson vs. Cormier - Page 3

On May 19 2015 23:24 Stim_Abuser wrote: Show nested quote + On May 19 2015 22:45 PuertoRican wrote:   On May 19 2015 21:51 Stim_Abuser wrote: Has Cormier ever truly wrestle fucked anyone though? Besides 199 pound trtless Henderson? Every other fight of his I remember being 90%+ striking and clinching against the cage. Occassionally he'd toss someone and they'd get right back up within 30 seconds or so. Everyone saw how strong DC's core and wrestling was in his fight against Josh Barnett in Strikeforce. However, Barnett broke his hand in round 1, and the fight was still close imo, as it was fought mainly on the feet. Barnett and Jon Jones were the only people to bring out the elite fighter in DC, as the rest of his opponents were scrubs, cans, or just past their prime. IMO, it's not so much that DC is a good MMA wrestler because he can take you down, his true strength shows in his wrestling moves that he uses on people and his core strength. Tapping peoples legs to get them off balance, kicking Hendo's foot to knock him off balance, and the way he uses balance to defense a take down and to keep people down on the mat is something you've seen before, but not many people do it. p.s. I still haven't seen Barnett's striking look as good as it did in Strikeforce. I had high hopes for him in the UFC, but he isn't fighting to his true potential. That "fight" against Travis Browne was a joke of a performance from Barnett. I'm not really doubting DC's great ability to toss fools or score takedowns. More so his ability to have dominate top control. My memory is foggy on some of his past fights though so maybe I'm missing something.

I'm sure AJ will explode back to his feet a time or two if he gets taken down early, but that will take an immense amount of energy.

Mark my words for the fight. If he's getting taken down late round 2 and later, he's not getting back up. I'll glady eat crow if I'm wrong on that.

On May 19 2015 23:24 Stim_Abuser wrote: Show nested quote + On May 19 2015 22:45 PuertoRican wrote:   On May 19 2015 21:51 Stim_Abuser wrote: Has Cormier ever truly wrestle fucked anyone though? Besides 199 pound trtless Henderson? Every other fight of his I remember being 90%+ striking and clinching against the cage. Occassionally he'd toss someone and they'd get right back up within 30 seconds or so. Everyone saw how strong DC's core and wrestling was in his fight against Josh Barnett in Strikeforce. However, Barnett broke his hand in round 1, and the fight was still close imo, as it was fought mainly on the feet. Barnett and Jon Jones were the only people to bring out the elite fighter in DC, as the rest of his opponents were scrubs, cans, or just past their prime. IMO, it's not so much that DC is a good MMA wrestler because he can take you down, his true strength shows in his wrestling moves that he uses on people and his core strength. Tapping peoples legs to get them off balance, kicking Hendo's foot to knock him off balance, and the way he uses balance to defense a take down and to keep people down on the mat is something you've seen before, but not many people do it. p.s. I still haven't seen Barnett's striking look as good as it did in Strikeforce. I had high hopes for him in the UFC, but he isn't fighting to his true potential. That "fight" against Travis Browne was a joke of a performance from Barnett. I'm not really doubting DC's great ability to toss fools or score takedowns. More so his ability to have dominate top control. My memory is foggy on some of his past fights though so maybe I'm missing something.

DC doesn't use top control like a lot of other wrestlers when he gets his opponents down. An example of what he does can be seen in the Cummins and Henderson fight, I think... Kinda tired atm.

Anyway, iirc, when he has someone down on their back, he does hammer fists from side control. And when he has someone down on the ground and they aren't on their back, he controls their hips and torso with quick flicks/taps to adjustment their body and keep them off balance, where he then punches them on the side of their head.

I like DC's style of ground control, cuz he frustrates his opponents and keeps them down by using their movement/weight against them, instead of the typical wrestlers we're used to seeing in MMA.

DC/Rumble will be good for live betting. Everything kinda depends on if DC can get a take down in round 1. Even if Rumble is able to get up real quick after the first take down, I'd place a big bet on DC after that.

Yea hes got some nice hammer fists, but his control seems very loose and people are able to get up pretty easily. He leaves a ton of space on the ground which allows guys to get back up. Doesn't seem like the kinda guy who's gonna control people on the ground for 3-4 minutes of a round and grind them out.

That said I could see him wearing AJ down through clinch against the fence and the ocassional takedown even if AJ gets up relatively quickly. Haven't really seen AJ's ability to stay off the fence much.

Wow, when i saw Cerrone -300, i thought i would bet him. I check again today, hes -500. FML

I'm possibly liking Arlovosky at +400 or better. Browne is better, but i think Arlovoski can pull it off some of the times.

Be careful with Dodson guys. He has this weird tendency to coast in fights. Makovsky should have nothing for him, but if Dodson thinks he won the first then starts coasting while Makovsky is working hard....just be careful. Clearly favorite or pass fight though.

And agree with the line movement. Don't think Makdessi has anything for Cerrone. lol reach disadvantage.

You know, I'm starting tot think that Vitor Belfort can beat Chris Weidman. It seems kind of absurd, but just pure aggression might be Weidman's weakness. Can he defend himself? Has he ever fought someone as aggresive as Vitor Belfort?

Silva and Machida are more counterstrikers, and he countered them both pretty easily with a very balanced approach, but can he defend himself against swarming aggression by Vitor Belfort?

There is a huge factor that might just kill my thoery in the fact that Vitor Belfort is simply very old. It might end up looking like Henderson vs Mousasi. But, if he still has anything left, that might be Weidman's weakness. Thoughts?

On May 20 2015 04:40 Minsk wrote: You know, I'm starting tot think that Vitor Belfort can beat Chris Weidman. It seems kind of absurd, but just pure aggression might be Weidman's weakness. Can he defend himself? Has he ever fought someone as aggresive as Vitor Belfort? Silva and Machida are more counterstrikers, and he countered them both pretty easily with a very balanced approach, but can he defend himself against swarming aggression by Vitor Belfort? There is a huge factor that might just kill my thoery in the fact that Vitor Belfort is simply very old. It might end up looking like Henderson vs Mousasi. But, if he still has anything left, that might be Weidman's weakness. Thoughts?

Very hard to constantly move forward vs a guy who can take anyone down.

Vitor without TRT is Vitor vegetable, as much as I like Vitor he will not have that same aggression that we saw in his last 3 fights.

Bigfoot silva vs arlovski is an example. After seeing Bigfoot on TRT go to war with mark hunt you can clearly see a massive difference on how Bigfoot fights.

Not saying Vitor is Bigfoot but just saying you can see how it affects someone's performance when they're on TRT.

Bottom line is Vitor is old while Weidman is in his prime.

I hope I'm wrong when I say it's going to be one sided because I want it to be a war.

Very hard to constantly move forward vs a guy who can take anyone down.

That makes perfect sense, taking it to the bank.

I'm kind of thinking Andrei Arlovski can outbox Travis Browne for 3 rounds? At least some % of the time?

I actually think Arlovskis boxing game is pretty good, if Fabricio Werdum could do it, I think hes a better boxer than Werdum.

The real question is how often does his glass jaw cost him, and how often can Browne turn it into a ground game, and win that ground game.

I think Andrei is pretty fast and moves pretty well, and Browne is very slow by comparison. I'm sure that Andrei will come with that strategy of outboxing Travis Browne for 3 rounds, and Browne might try to counter with some sort of ground game.

My feel initially hated the idea of betting on an aging Arlovski against the mosnter that is Travis Browne.

It kind of reminds me of Cub Swanson vs Max Holloway now, although thats a strange comparison, where Cub Swanson was too slow to catch Max Holloway, except their overall skill level and heirarchy is reversed, where Max Holloway was also on a much higher skill level than Cub Swanson at that time. I'm not sure what happens in that situation where their overall skill levels are reversed. Liking the odds though.

Travis Browne is also a very timing based counterstriker, that waits for the right moment, I'm not sure what that means for this fight though. Are there any examples of Arlovski getting caught by a hunter style counterstriker?

On May 20 2015 12:39 Minsk wrote: Travis Browne is also a very timing based counterstriker, that waits for the right moment, I'm not sure what that means for this fight though. Are there any examples of Arlovski getting caught by a hunter style counterstriker?

-Tim Sylvia also KOed him with a counter strike while wobbly.

on the other side of things:
-Sergei Kharitonov walked him down all fight and eventually caught him
-Brett Rogers bullrushed AA

On May 20 2015 12:25 Minsk wrote: I'm kind of thinking Andrei Arlovski can outbox Travis Browne for 3 rounds? At least some % of the time?

I'll be betting o1.5 rounds @ +105. Browne picks his spots and isn't a volume striker. Arlovski is very good at avoiding damage these days, which also means his fights are more boring cuz he doesn't engage as much as he used to. Also, there's no heat between the two, as they are former training partners, and Browne said in recent interviews that he is still friends with Arlovski.

From what I've seen, most people betting the total for this fight think it'll end u1.5 rounds.

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On May 20 2015 04:40 Minsk wrote: You know, I'm starting tot think that Vitor Belfort can beat Chris Weidman. It seems kind of absurd, but just pure aggression might be Weidman's weakness. Can he defend himself? Has he ever fought someone as aggresive as Vitor Belfort? Silva and Machida are more counterstrikers, and he countered them both pretty easily with a very balanced approach, but can he defend himself against swarming aggression by Vitor Belfort? There is a huge factor that might just kill my thoery in the fact that Vitor Belfort is simply very old. It might end up looking like Henderson vs Mousasi. But, if he still has anything left, that might be Weidman's weakness. Thoughts?

Befort was an amazing fighter. In his recent fights, his only 2 losses were to prime Silva and Jones. He has also beaten RockHold, which imo, might be better than Weidman. Pretty much all of his wins were super impressive KO in round 1 or 2.

But he has ring rust of 2 years, is now 38 and is off TRT, so idk.

Belfort isnt the stpuid agressive 1-2-1-2 punching machine he was before, he has developed into a much more patient counterstriker he is not going to run into Weidmans takedowns, watch his fight against Rich Franklin and thats how he will probably try to fight.

Im not saying his odds are good or bad or anything im just saying to not expect him to move forward a lot

tbh the whole question is, how much has he declined since his last fight.

If this was the Belfort who crushed Rockhold, i would bet him all night at those odds. But realistically, he probably declined, its just hard to know how much.

i think this fight will be incredibly one sided in weidman's favor. belfort depends on a lucky punch imo
weidman in under 3 rounds imo

Weidman is going to take Vitor to the woodchipper.... everything in this fight points to an absolute destruction and demoralization of Vitor.