Donger Kim vs TCfromUB NL challenge

With not so much happening on the online scene these days I thought this for sure deserved a thread here on LP for those that do not follow 2+2 NVG.

Donger Kim has challenged TCfromUB (Nick) to a heads up battle in No Limit and Nick accepted. 15k hands at 25/50 with $15k extra on the side for the winner. All action on PokerStars. The challenge started yesterday and will go on until beginning of March, both players want to put in a good volume so wont be another durrrrchallenge... Not the biggest stakes but really good upcoming players so will be a lot of fun!

Some background beef to the challenge is that Nick made a list of which players he considered the best right now at HU NL, and put himself one spot higher than Donger at third. WCGRider (1st on the list, and friend of Donger) commented on this by saying he doesnt believe that Nick is even in the top 15.

thread on 2+2: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/donger-kim-nick-frame-tcfromub-hu-challenge-1508533/

Joeys/Joeingrams talking to both players before the challenge on this pokercast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtn9OcjTs4M

On his youtube page you will also find him putting up videos from live-railing all the sessions while having guests on, for example WCGRider yesterday, really entertaining!

I would be up for betting a small amount (10-30 usd) on Donger Kim, I think he won 3 buy ins in their first session so I assume I would have to lay some small odds. Anyone up for it and can send on PS?

3 buy-in side bet for 15k hands hu seems completely insignificant, wouldn't you agree?

What's the point of that?

edit - ah, n/m. It's just a 'whatever' on top of the 15k challenge. Sweet! I hope neither of them bitches out like dwan did

where is the original list of the hu rankings? cant find it on google =[

last year every month there was a new ranking, but looks like people stop doing
the last ranking was given by TCfromUB on Joeigram podcast:

I disagree esp with ike #2( too high), TC#3(too high), #14illhasha(too high)

also, pandorasbux, carrycakes, they barely play anyone these days

fortheswarm, asianflushie, otb_redbaron and muumipoiss should be ranked higher for sure

my opinion is based on who doesnt give action to who and who's killing each other regularly
basically everyday there's 2-3 crazy battles at 25/50+ going on and I rail most of it

TC stated that list was a quick idea and he never expected it to be released

but his other lists were similar to this, thats not his first list and he ranked himself over DK in all lists

Why is #14 too high for Willhasha? Not too many months ago he was one of the few battling almost everyone up to 200/400, and always seemed to do pretty good? Very few seemed to give him action, am I wrong? Sweden not crushing? :/

On February 14 2015 04:18 devon06atX wrote: 3 buy-in side bet for 15k hands hu seems completely insignificant, wouldn't you agree? What's the point of that? edit - ah, n/m. It's just a 'whatever' on top of the 15k challenge. Sweet! I hope neither of them bitches out like dwan did

A larger side bet affects the game play too much. For instance, if one player is down 4 buyins with 1k hands left and theres a large sidebet, hes very likely to lose more than usual due to needing to go for it.


Drone or any HU reg, toss together a ranking list for everyone who doesnt follow the HUNL battle scene.

On February 14 2015 15:23 Balzamon wrote: Why is #14 too high for Willhasha? Not too many months ago he was one of the few battling almost everyone up to 200/400, and always seemed to do pretty good? Very few seemed to give him action, am I wrong? Sweden not crushing? :/

he has a really cool style to watch but he got crushed in every match I watched, he also played a lot of 25/50 in the end of 2014
I think lots of regs under him would be more than happy in give him action

On February 14 2015 19:32 drone666 wrote:

so good

where andrewsong on this list

On February 14 2015 23:57 MARSHALL28 wrote: where andrewsong on this list

Wilhasha gives a lot of action, not as much lately, but his game isn't considered to be as strong theory wise. He plays higher than everyone else, has all of his own action unlike 95% of high stakes players, and is up millions last two years. He's been blocked from tracking for a long time but he made a lot in the giant 400/800 games and also a lot of 200/400 vs saniker(raulgonzalez) and some others. He can't even be bothered to play 25/50 usually only 50/100 or higher.

A lot of the high stakes NL regs the guys at the top of that list aren't actually playing the highest stakes with Antonius, Isildurr, punting-peddler, Ben, Ike, ravens wood, oddsen, and some of the other guys who play mixed games and limit way bigger than NL even runs anymore heads up. Sure there is a lot of HU going on lately but it's mostly dicksizing at 25/50 and then people losing to jungle if they want to play higher.

As far as that list goes it has a lot of the names that belong but not necessarily in that order. I don't see how donger or nick can justify putting themselves above jungle when Jungle is willing to play them for the most part and not vice versa.

Ike stays at #1/2 and gets universal respect. He doesn't play much because he literally hardly ever gets action. Every once in a whole someone will test him or he will play 500/1k cap vs Isil. Ppl been sleeping on IKE for a long time but everytime they start to he comes out and proves he is the best still. I'm not sure it was IKE (I think he may have been associated with a similar but different program) might have been limit Bryce that was associated with the Alberta bot so you got to imagine at the top these guys have some advanced software if not helping them play in real time at least letting them develop a ton off table with something like GTOrb

Nick's list is pretty good though. I'd just knock down TC, Donger, Sauce, maybe whey and perfumo I don't know them very well. Then I would move up asianflushie, redbaron, kanu7, lottenice. Probably move up KPR and raulgonzalez too if there is anyone weaker above (obviously). Lastly Although ForTheSwarm is already pretty high in the rankings he is very good possibly top 3-4 (Ike WCG jungle are hands down top3 for me at the moment) and could be placed higher

I have absolutely no idea how he can put himself above players like redbaron

anyway these rankings are clearly far from accurate, would take massive samples to really tell

its more based on like who is willing to play who
redbaron just started grinding hu not too long ago, I know he plays a lot of 3 handed, but HU is way different for sure, he def doesnt have an edge over the top 5 but hes talented for sure, so he might be on the top soon

where are these guys making their millions from if nobody plays them and High stakes fish are almost impossible to find nowadays?
seems like most of those guys can beat each other (some with a little help from a bit of variance). is there a couple of HS donators? to be honest im more interested in who keeps these games running for everyone

rake is relatively low that high so regs can still play each other and realize some edge. There are some fish and semi-fish/rich semi regs that bleed still. The better regs beat of the lower ones when they can and then there is zoom

and some of those list players don't play regs any higher than 25/50 really and are staked/sharing

http://i.gyazo.com/305b0740556c97f0552a56bf3215b13a.png

graph after 3 sessions, donger in the lead

I'm more of a ring game reg but I played quite a bit of hands vs both. TC sporadically and Donger when he was climbing at 10/20 and about year after that. Donger was actually the first and the beginning of ass whooping I took after a 2year break from poker. He was on a completely different level than the rest of the regs and it's no coincidence that he went so far. I still got my money on TC cuz that 1.4 line value is insane.

On February 16 2015 01:45 whamm! wrote: where are these guys making their millions from if nobody plays them and High stakes fish are almost impossible to find nowadays? seems like most of those guys can beat each other (some with a little help from a bit of variance). is there a couple of HS donators? to be honest im more interested in who keeps these games running for everyone

All of the newer guys at these stakes came up beating guys like me who had easy money from poker that was still willing to gamble. Lobby waiting every site and squeezing everything they can with HU store open as well. I can't speak for Stars but on other sites, NL HU dried like vegas @ 10/20+ after people started making lists. It gave us cheat sheet knowing who's game to analyse and mimic making everyones game tougher as a whole. Regarding the ez money, I keep my HU store open at 5/10-25/50 on all my sites but I have not even snatched one fun player in the last 3 months.

On February 16 2015 08:33 AndrewSong wrote: I'm more of a ring game reg but I played quite a bit of hands vs both. TC sporadically and Donger when he was climbing at 10/20 and about year after that. Donger was actually the first and the beginning of ass whooping I took after a 2year break from poker. He was on a completely different level than the rest of the regs and it's no coincidence that he went so far. I still got my money on TC cuz that 1.4 line value is insane. Show nested quote + On February 16 2015 01:45 whamm! wrote: where are these guys making their millions from if nobody plays them and High stakes fish are almost impossible to find nowadays? seems like most of those guys can beat each other (some with a little help from a bit of variance). is there a couple of HS donators? to be honest im more interested in who keeps these games running for everyone All of the newer guys at these stakes came up beating guys like me who had easy money from poker that was still willing to gamble. Lobby waiting every site and squeezing everything they can with HU store open as well. I can't speak for Stars but on other sites, NL HU dried like vegas @ 10/20+ after people started making lists. It gave us cheat sheet knowing who's game to analyse and mimic making everyones game tougher as a whole. Regarding the ez money, I keep my HU store open at 5/10-25/50 on all my sites but I have not even snatched one fun player in the last 3 months.

what are some things you know now that he was doing better/differently than you

He did everything differently than me A lot of the things he did then became more of standard strategy even in midstakes. Before donger, I've never seen anyone having such sticky pre and postflop stats. Not check raising a single hand on the flop was completely new to me too. What's interesting is TC is someone who constructs quite abit of x/r into his flop game and play very distinct 3bet strategy compared to donger and rest of the players on the list. TC doesn't seem to be playing too well this session but I hope he picks it up

who would still win at these stakes if they played them today?

Taylor Caby
CTS
Brian Townsend
Hallinggol
Krantz

at PLO i think cts was still killing it for 7 figures as recently as about a year ago (dunno, maybe he still is) across various sites. not NLHE but just mentioning since he seemed to be somewhat flying under the radar for a change.

On February 17 2015 00:59 whamm! wrote: who would still win at these stakes if they played them today? Taylor Caby CTS Brian Townsend Hallinggol Krantz

you mean HUNL of today?

None of they would be winners, if they are capable of winning after studying a lot thats a different thing

tcfromub also got crushed by premiumwhey for like 60k I think in the last 2 days
getting crushed, his confidence must be really low atm

On February 17 2015 00:38 AndrewSong wrote: He did everything differently than me A lot of the things he did then became more of standard strategy even in midstakes. Before donger, I've never seen anyone having such sticky pre and postflop stats. Not check raising a single hand on the flop was completely new to me too. What's interesting is TC is someone who constructs quite abit of x/r into his flop game and play very distinct 3bet strategy compared to donger and rest of the players on the list. TC doesn't seem to be playing too well this session but I hope he picks it up

interesting, all I know about him is he is good friends with wcg, only heard about that this week. that they won't play eachother and WCg considers him #2, when I don't even remember his name on WCG top 10 list last year. maybe will have to google it

HUNL is worse than boxing lol

I think DOTA is exceptionally boring to watch, yet I can enjoy LoL. I have not played DOTA and have played some LoL.

On February 18 2015 01:57 Highcard wrote: I think DOTA is exceptionally boring to watch, yet I can enjoy LoL. I have not played DOTA and have played some LoL.

stop trying to start shit.

On February 18 2015 18:47 mnj wrote: Show nested quote + On February 18 2015 01:57 Highcard wrote: I think DOTA is exceptionally boring to watch, yet I can enjoy LoL. I have not played DOTA and have played some LoL. stop trying to start shit.

lets do it

Pretty sick, Donger basically made 100K+ in a span of 13 days and there is still 2 sessions left.

On February 17 2015 00:38 AndrewSong wrote: He did everything differently than me A lot of the things he did then became more of standard strategy even in midstakes. Before donger, I've never seen anyone having such sticky pre and postflop stats. Not check raising a single hand on the flop was completely new to me too. What's interesting is TC is someone who constructs quite abit of x/r into his flop game and play very distinct 3bet strategy compared to donger and rest of the players on the list. TC doesn't seem to be playing too well this session but I hope he picks it up

what do you mean sticky stats? low fold to cbet, more calling and less folding in general?

On February 27 2015 06:11 traxamillion wrote: Show nested quote + On February 17 2015 00:38 AndrewSong wrote: He did everything differently than me A lot of the things he did then became more of standard strategy even in midstakes. Before donger, I've never seen anyone having such sticky pre and postflop stats. Not check raising a single hand on the flop was completely new to me too. What's interesting is TC is someone who constructs quite abit of x/r into his flop game and play very distinct 3bet strategy compared to donger and rest of the players on the list. TC doesn't seem to be playing too well this session but I hope he picks it up what do you mean sticky stats? low fold to cbet, more calling and less folding in general?

yes

looks like another successful hustle in the books for team wcg

On February 17 2015 00:59 whamm! wrote: who would still win at these stakes if they played them today? Taylor Caby CTS Brian Townsend Hallinggol Krantz

Pretty sure CTS still kills it on euro sites.

new WCG rider rankings with gay names:

March HUNL PR
1 West Coast Gangsters ( wcgrider? )
2 Big Dick (donger kim )
3 AZNflushie (RIP)
4 Rumble man (jungleman )
5 Swarmmy ( fortheswarm )
6 Kaby
7 Ike
8 wheyprotein (premiumwhey )
9 80%carry (carrycakes )
10 muumi ( muumipoiss )

hes clearly making the rankings based on who plays him, like muumi #10 because they played a lot 2k last month and maybe some 5k, and asianflushie plays ( and loses ) to wcgrider regularly afaik

saw ike playing and outcalssing some players, so I would still rank him high

On March 02 2015 00:14 JonnyCosMo wrote: Show nested quote + On February 17 2015 00:59 whamm! wrote: who would still win at these stakes if they played them today? Taylor Caby CTS Brian Townsend Hallinggol Krantz Pretty sure CTS still kills it on euro sites.

He still plays high stakes PLO on Stars as well, doesnt he?

On March 02 2015 15:08 TianYuan wrote: Show nested quote + On March 02 2015 00:14 JonnyCosMo wrote:   On February 17 2015 00:59 whamm! wrote: who would still win at these stakes if they played them today? Taylor Caby CTS Brian Townsend Hallinggol Krantz Pretty sure CTS still kills it on euro sites. He still plays high stakes PLO on Stars as well, doesnt he?

yes

he was in a recent Galfond video where they were battling @ 25/50 zoom PLO

Yea CTS disappeared for a while but then came back with some graphs (assuming they are real) showing he has been crushing for millions the whole time up to as recently as this year

On March 03 2015 19:07 traxamillion wrote: Yea CTS disappeared for a while but then came back with some graphs (assuming they are real) showing he has been crushing for millions the whole time up to as recently as this year

link to graphs?

i never saw graphs, just heard he won 2.3million from the 1k, 2k, 5k, plo, with 2k being his main game.