What should I do.

Easier said then done but grow a pair and go.

Just go! Would not regret!

fuck it. yolo.

sounds like you're not even that good to begin with?

you gotta give us some of your accomplishments first so we can judge.

go get em pete, GO GET EM

So you are 24, no money, student loans to pay, not even that good (i suppose if u would have won something it would have been in your post). IMO, its a no-brainer.

how much school do you have left? what's your major?

is your plan basically to get on a team, ride it out as long as possible, then whenever that ends go back and finish college?

idk, sounds fun not sure if wise tho

Don't regret not going, go! (as long as you ca come back and finish your degree)

I'm good at the game as I can be without being in a position where I don't butt heads with international giants. There is no achievements to boast because there can be no achievements to boast. Do you know how many NA teams have formed to a relevant level since the last International? None. The last NA team that matter got formed before TI2, which is Dignitas. So in over a year's time, with all the talent that NA has, no new teams that matter has sprouted. That means that the rest of NA are like me, and have no achievements to speak of. That's the reality.

Am I even that good. Probably not. But everyone else sucks too. No one has this game figured out, and everyone acts like they do. I suppose the closest thing that comes to anything worthy of mentioning is that I have been actively involved in the NA inhouse leagues, and have rather ranked highly consistently throughout the years if that's anything at all (many would argue it is not, and I would agree since I think 90% of the players in top ranks suck anyway). Do I tell you that I'm confident enough to be an overall top 5 player in Korea, and #1 in the position that I'm wishing to play? These are just words, and being poker players I know you guys to be (rightfully) skeptical.

My plan is to invest one year and see where it goes. If I see a light at the end of the tunnel, I keep going and see what happens. If it looks grim, come back.


As for school, I have an year and a half of school left. Majoring in game development, which is really focused on programming.

If dota was a solo endeavour i think it would be a much easier decision. By far the hardest thing that you need to do would be finding 4 other talented, dedicated players who are on a similar wavelength as you. But I think the one year off before reevaluating plan is solid and wish you the best.

DO IT

I think that honestly, the only reason NOT to do it is a possibly negative impact in your life later on.

If you have to get into more debt to follow this, I'd evaluate it very seriously. If you can breakeven (if your parents finance you, you can count as breakeven as you basically dont have to pay em back) FUCKING DO IT.

I assume you love the game, so the worst case scenario would be upsetting your family, while learning a new language/doing what you love/meeting new ppl who share your interests.}

If you think that the best case scenario is worthy of it and you find a way to do it monetarily speaking then go for it. As long as you don't have a feeling that this is an irresponsible dream or something it's fine to put school on a hold if that's what you really want imo.

One year of your life is nothing when you have dreams and passion.

At worst you attempt to fullfil your dreams, and realize that becoming a professional dota2 player is outside of outcomes. I think you will have an easier time focusing on school and "life", after you see for yourself if becoming a dota2 pro is possible.

I suppose a worst case scenario is you're on the cusp of sucess and play 10 years straight but never breaking the plateau and have wasted a bunch of years. Iono, maybe read Rekrul and Jinro blog/posts. Tehy seem to have advice on this issue.

Do you have a spot on a team? Do you know your teammates, and can you mesh well with them, personally and professionally? Do you have a place to stay? Can you get around with your Korean, or is someone available to help you get around? What is the price of a plane ticket? Do you have enough to get back if need be? Whats the outlook on future tournaments in Korea over the next 6 months/1 year/beyond?

Going through processes like these has often helped me come to conclusions by gauging my amount of enthusiasm while completing all tasks and learning their answers. Combine that enthusiasm you have of the process with the information you gather, you will get your answer on whether going to Korea is a good decision or not.

Carthac brings up about a million good points... But honestly, flip a coin, LET FATE DECIDE.

The information you gave in the OP makes it seem like you already know the answer, but you want advice from others. To elaborate, you seem to already know how much skill you have, and that you will still be at a disadvantage if you go to Korea, because there's a limited amount of skilled people for you to train with, and you're also banking on most of the gamers in Korea to be way below you in skill.

You make your life sound like shit, and that studying should be your main focus, yet you're getting sidetracked with wanting to still be a gamer with the hopes of being like other nerds who you've seen on Internet Television in the past.

There's a good amount of people who have lived in Korea for eSports related activities on this website, and there's one big difference between you and us; it's the fact that we had a set plan and knew what we were going to do way before we went there, and also didn't have to worry about housing/monthly bills/airplane ticket/speaking to the natives/etc. In the little post you made, you remind me of a few of my former gamer friends that just couldn't give up the gaming itch, even though they were well past their prime or just lacked longterm motivation. However, after a few failed attempts at getting back into eSports, they finally gave up and came back to reality.

If you even wrote an OP that sounded like you were somewhat serious about this, I would say "go for it!," however, that's not the case.

On July 14 2013 22:56 PuertoRican wrote: You make your life sound like shit, and that studying should be your main focus, yet you're getting sidetracked with wanting to still be a gamer with the hopes of being like other nerds who you've seen on Internet Television in the past.

Those other nerds? You have 4000 posts on an internet poker forum that is linked from a broodwar forum. You are a nerd too

You also sound like a pessimistic douche father figure that gave up on his dreams and settled. Don't look down on others. They are pursuing what they want in life, there is plenty life to live after if it doesn't work out

Thanks for the replies guys. I was out all day, and didn't have time to reply to them but I read them. I really appreciate all of them for both of those who are skeptical and are supportive.

I have no problem with the language. I don't think I'll go any deeper in debt, my summer job should keep me afloat. I do not have a spot in a team, although I might. Nothing's for certain, and it's all speculative. At worst, I have people that can vouch for me who are respected players in the community and I'll prove my worth. Place to stay is sorta iffy but I can probably get by.

I'm not underestimating the Korean dota by any means. I just know where I stand, and even if Korean dota proves to be tougher than I imagine, if given the chance I'm sure I can compete at an international level. What I lack is experience, and the environment for growth to allow me to gain this experience. I have no grand dream of being on TV or whatever like you said. And the role that I wish to play advocates that; a support.

What I really seek is a quality game of dota, which is like a drug to me, and it's what keeps me sane. A good game of dota satisfies me like no other thing in the world. The thing is, the bar for satisfaction keeps getting higher and higher, and it comes to a point where I can't reach that no more in my current setting. I'm just chasing that high. How sick would it be if I can do this without worrying about how to put food on my table or a roof over my head.


And Carthac, I'm sure he's using the word nerd liberally with no foul intentions. And I very much appreciate his view too. I certainly did not expect all the cheers for "go4ur dr34m!" when I made the thread. I just wanted to see what others could say about it.

It's one year of your life. Go for it. You will always regret it if you don't. You're educating is a programming background so you can easily pick that back up if you need to return. One thing I'd suggest doing is setting aside 1-1.5 hours a day while you're over there to continue your education. Just reading/coding or whatever. Not a huge amount of your time but something worth doing to keep your skills sharp and give you a backup plan in case things don't go as you wish. Either way ya gotta do it! Go!

Ask grrr

How do I reach the oldschool legends like grr... and rekrul.

1) Don't go without a plan. Seen a few people do this, invariably they end up living in pretty miserable conditions or they are comfortable with being total leeches. Maybe its worth it for some of them, idk, but I'd at least try to have a really well thought out plan before going (where are you staying, money sorted out for the time, clear exit if things dont go as you want).

2) Never underestimate Koreans ability to go HAM at a game... Wasn't it like just over a year ago when Korean LoL was irrelevant and now they are crushing everything. I heard DotA had a pretty nice reception at GOMTV's inaugural event so keep that in mind.

3) I dont know who GOMTV has doing commentary for DotA, but if you are eloquent/they dont have anyone notable right now, esports commentary is a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better paid than playing the game. Seriously, some of the casters make absurd amounts of money considering how bad a lot of them are -.- And you can spend your time playing when not casting, which is what you want anyway.

On July 16 2013 22:27 TianYuan wrote: 1) Don't go without a plan. Seen a few people do this, invariably they end up living in pretty miserable conditions or they are comfortable with being total leeches. Maybe its worth it for some of them, idk, but I'd at least try to have a really well thought out plan before going (where are you staying, money sorted out for the time, clear exit if things dont go as you want). 2) Never underestimate Koreans ability to go HAM at a game... Wasn't it like just over a year ago when Korean LoL was irrelevant and now they are crushing everything. I heard DotA had a pretty nice reception at GOMTV's inaugural event so keep that in mind. 3) I dont know who GOMTV has doing commentary for DotA, but if you are eloquent/they dont have anyone notable right now, esports commentary is a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better paid than playing the game. Seriously, some of the casters make absurd amounts of money considering how bad a lot of them are -.- And you can spend your time playing when not casting, which is what you want anyway.

Ty.

1) It's difficult to set plans. I'm largely a nobody. I guess I have some contacts in Korea that are looking out for me, but it's never definitive if they're indeed trying at 100% and that they will have something lined up for me.

2) I hope to be a part of this wave before the Korean hamness manifests. Part of the reason why now seems to be such a crucial time, before it's developed.

3) I am not sure if I'm the type for the caster. It'd be mainly analytical, not so hype. I'm bad at hype. Honestly, it's tempting but like, one doesn't simply get into casting either without contact or some sort of.. resume (I'd assume anyway). Meh, I want to be a player, haha.

Thanks for your input, man.

Well, if you've got good analytical skill they can always pair you with a hype guy, thats how they usually do it. But yeah, it gets easier if you have some kind of connect/notoriety.

#2 I obviously agree with seeing as how that's how I did it too lol >_<

Do you have a team etc already or would you go there and try to make things happen (I'd advice against this obviously)? Knowing a Korean team that needs another player would probably be the nicest option for having things run smoothly, and them having non-korean ringers might be a nice edge in early seasons.

If you have a team or you can get on a team, I'd say 100% go do it. If you do good, hey you have a career for a bit that's pretty fun, if you get tired of it you can cast lucratively if you want to or go back to school - no big loss.

FWIW, I am Korean. Although, I am very much white washed. I don't think I will have a problem blending in with a Korean team. I am supposed to have some prospects in a few teams, but that's what my friend said. And I am not going to believe it until I see or talk to these people (which I have not been able to due to my busy schedule, 12hr difference). I also understand that teams are going to look for players within Korea, not some guy who's "thinking of coming". I think that's why going is really important. There are a big tournies brewing.

Thanks again for your input. I know we've had some differences regarding SC2 here at LPn, but I def appreciate your input.

do it! don't be a puss

I'd go and try to start a twitch tv following - get your name recognized through your skill and how many people watch your stream.

Best of luck.

On July 15 2013 19:54 Arirang wrote: How do I reach the oldschool legends like grr... and rekrul.

You will not receive any encouragement from either of these young men.

1. you're broke
2. you're unproven (understand that you have some skills and believe in your ability to improve which is exactly what every other guy practicing all day everyday has going for him)
3. koreans get good at games really really fast (good LoL reference by TianYuan)
4. if the prize pools are worth while, china is a very short plane ride away
5. staying at korean relatives houses to become a pro gamer might be very uncomfortable (maybe your relatives are cool but the average korean family will be like "wtf are u thinking?"

I dunno man I just see a lot of cons and not many pros. It's nice to see people all in chasing their dreams but this one just doesn't look very good for you.

Hi

I'm Robin Nymann. I am the manager of Liquid's StarCraft 2 and DOTA 2 team. Liquid`Jinro linked me to this post and I thought, I'd say a few things.

I think you should be super careful with what you're doing, and while the field in Korea right now is very tempting to go to and compete due to the skill level being very low for the amount of money being available, it's extremely risky and, personally, don't think it's worth it to try out in your scenario. You do say you're confident in your game and I do think that in some situations you could do it, just like the Liquid SC2 players did around SC2 launch and moved to Korea. However, the main difference is they had established connections in Korea through Nazgul and the teamhouse they'd be practicing in. It's a 1v1 game, so you're only reliant on yourself and your personal skill to make something happen. You have no network, no players that will be in a team with you.

You also say you're confident in your play which is good, but I think that's also something that should be considered before you go. I don't know if you go by a different alias, but I know of a lot of the talented NA players due to my job and I haven't heard of your ID. Normally I'd say if people are to do something like this and give up everything for a while, they should already be at the level of where they can compete/win the tournaments. It's not something you do and then get good at it or get to level if you're already decent.

Besides that, the skill level in Korea will catch on very fast. Faster than people think, just as it did with LoL. They were awful at first, but once it becomes a little bit popular and/or the people who started playing it have played for a longer amount of time, they will be extremely skilled.

Anyway, if you have any specific questions you can catch me on twitter since I'll probably forget to check this thread. Whatever you do, please be super careful. I would not do it myself though

On July 19 2013 02:06 Snow wrote: Hi I'm Robin Nymann. I am the manager of Liquid's StarCraft 2 and DOTA 2 team. Liquid`Jinro linked me to this post and I thought, I'd say a few things. I think you should be super careful with what you're doing, and while the field in Korea right now is very tempting to go to and compete due to the skill level being very low for the amount of money being available, it's extremely risky and, personally, don't think it's worth it to try out in your scenario. You do say you're confident in your game and I do think that in some situations you could do it, just like the Liquid SC2 players did around SC2 launch and moved to Korea. However, the main difference is they had established connections in Korea through Nazgul and the teamhouse they'd be practicing in. It's a 1v1 game, so you're only reliant on yourself and your personal skill to make something happen. You have no network, no players that will be in a team with you. You also say you're confident in your play which is good, but I think that's also something that should be considered before you go. I don't know if you go by a different alias, but I know of a lot of the talented NA players due to my job and I haven't heard of your ID. Normally I'd say if people are to do something like this and give up everything for a while, they should already be at the level of where they can compete/win the tournaments. It's not something you do and then get good at it or get to level if you're already decent. Besides that, the skill level in Korea will catch on very fast. Faster than people think, just as it did with LoL. They were awful at first, but once it becomes a little bit popular and/or the people who started playing it have played for a longer amount of time, they will be extremely skilled. Anyway, if you have any specific questions you can catch me on twitter since I'll probably forget to check this thread. Whatever you do, please be super careful. I would not do it myself though

I do go by a different alias. While who I am in dota is no big secret, I do not have a great relationship with ixmike88 and I rather not openly disclose who I am to you in case you ask your team for an opinion. A lot of them had not played with me, and the one who does the most does not like me. I purposely came to this community to ask this question because I respect this community more than any other online community I am involved in (which includes NADota or TL).

I feel that you are a bit harsh with your judgments, but I suppose it's because I might appear as a player with a pipe dream of making it big that you do not recognize. Ah well.

I agree that my networking isn't quite as powerful nor as influential as Nazgul of TL. But I do have members of FXO and Birdgang on my contact. And through their vouch, I'm looking to get a seat in a more serious team. But as mentioned before, it's a lot easier to get a team going by being physically present in Korea rather than being "some guy who's thinking of coming to Korea to play dota".

Thanks for your earnest reply.

On July 19 2013 00:02 Smuft wrote: Show nested quote + On July 15 2013 19:54 Arirang wrote: How do I reach the oldschool legends like grr... and rekrul. You will not receive any encouragement from either of these young men. 1. you're broke 2. you're unproven (understand that you have some skills and believe in your ability to improve which is exactly what every other guy practicing all day everyday has going for him) 3. koreans get good at games really really fast (good LoL reference by TianYuan) 4. if the prize pools are worth while, china is a very short plane ride away 5. staying at korean relatives houses to become a pro gamer might be very uncomfortable (maybe your relatives are cool but the average korean family will be like "wtf are u thinking?" I dunno man I just see a lot of cons and not many pros. It's nice to see people all in chasing their dreams but this one just doesn't look very good for you.

1. Well yeah, I don't matter to them and they may not be quite as compassionate as they once were years ago. I understand.

2. As mentioned earlier, everyone is unproven unless you are already a made player in NA. Even that has little weight since a lot of made players can't even get a team going. MSS, who's a liquid ringer that Snow would even know, can't get a team going. Hannahmontana who was a TI2 contestant can't get a team going and he had tried. It's a rough scene.

3. This is true. That's why it's important to go now. I see what you are trying to say though. As beast as Korea is, would I matter when I'm there. I'd think so.

4. One foreign team slot will be had for the upcoming tournaments in Korea. China cannot come to take all the money, haha. But this is good because it keeps the Korean teams sharp and gives them challenges. As I have said, Korea has the right environment for growth.

5. I have recently spoken to my family and I have their blessing. I don't think it's quite as grim as I had expected, but I expect for the worst and I have options.



Thank you guys for all the support as well as skepticism and scrutiny. I think these are important questions I must answer objectively before I commit to a decision.


p.s - I'd also like it if we keep the discussion within these forums without outsider opinion. I know some of you are just trying to help, but I purposely came to this community for a reason. Thank you.

On July 19 2013 04:02 Arirang wrote: I do go by a different alias. While who I am in dota is no big secret, I do not have a great relationship with ixmike88 and I rather not openly disclose who I am to you in case you ask your team for an opinion. A lot of them had not played with me, and the one who does the most does not like me. I purposely came to this community to ask this question because I respect this community more than any other online community I am involved in (which includes NADota or TL). I feel that you are a bit harsh with your judgments, but I suppose it's because I might appear as a player with a pipe dream of making it big that you do not recognize. Ah well. I agree that my networking isn't quite as powerful nor as influential as Nazgul of TL. But I do have members of FXO and Birdgang on my contact. And through their vouch, I'm looking to get a seat in a more serious team. But as mentioned before, it's a lot easier to get a team going by being physically present in Korea rather than being "some guy who's thinking of coming to Korea to play dota". Thanks for your earnest reply.

Yeah sorry for sounding a little bit harsh, but I really think these things are a big deal and you're potentially going to ruin a part of your life it goes wrong. I'm going to sound a little more harsh now but if your ID is that secret because you're afraid of someone asking an opinion of you, then I'd say with pretty high certainty that you aren't going to cut it in the environment.

If you do choose to go, good luck.

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I've purposely came to a non-dota related community to ask for an opinion. This may seem very unintuitive, why come to a poker community to ask such a question. But it wasn't because I was hoping to gain supports from clueless individuals who had no idea of the scene. It was because it's the only community where I can come and ask these kinds of questions, and the community answers back with sincerity. Most of LP come from a gaming background, but they're also poker players. This gives the community a unique value where they're both serious gamers, but still have a clarity on realism. And from these people I wanted opinions.

From a very limited information, you've made a complete profile of how shitty I am, and that I am apparently afraid of others' opinions, and that I may not be cut out for the competitive dota at all. You are grossly overplaying your information and you are much of what I wanted to avoid in the first place. I don't think you have a clue as to how arrogant you are being right now either, but this is expected if you are who I think you are from the little games I've seen of you in ixdl.

I know Jinro had all the right heart to help me reach an answer, but he chose the wrong person and misunderstood my intent of coming to these forums. But that's not his fault. I doubt he had much idea of what kind of a person you are as well.

On July 19 2013 14:51 Arirang wrote: I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I've purposely came to a non-dota related community to ask for an opinion. This may seem very unintuitive, why come to a poker community to ask such a question. But it wasn't because I was hoping to gain supports from clueless individuals who had no idea of the scene. It was because it's the only community where I can come and ask these kinds of questions, and the community answers back with sincerity. Most of LP come from a gaming background, but they're also poker players. This gives the community a unique value where they're both serious gamers, but still have a clarity on realism. And from these people I wanted opinions. From a very limited information, you've made a complete profile of how shitty I am, and that I am apparently afraid of others' opinions, and that I may not be cut out for the competitive dota at all. You are grossly overplaying your information and you are much of what I wanted to avoid in the first place. I don't think you have a clue as to how arrogant you are being right now either, but this is expected if you are who I think you are from the little games I've seen of you in ixdl. I know Jinro had all the right heart to help me reach an answer, but he chose the wrong person and misunderstood my intent of coming to these forums. But that's not his fault. I doubt he had much idea of what kind of a person you are as well.

I'm sorry for that. It's not my intention to put you down or anything. I am actually just trying to give you a realistic view of how it is because I've worked fulltime in the environment and dealt with a lot of people who do these things. I think I've tried in most scenarios not to say you are one or the other except for that one with opinion. However, I really just want you to understand/know how hard it is and how big of a deal it is for your life before making the decision. I'm sorry for coming off like an asshole tho.

Do it before you're confined to modern day slavery through various debts. You'll regret it more if you don't do it.