Philosophical Theory - Page 2

On October 13 2011 03:25 D_smart_S wrote: So the questions of the day are - are we machines or do we have souls that leave the body and go somewhere else when we die. Is there an afterlife? Well, here is something to think about. If we are just our bodies that means we are biological machines. When you break your computer and it won't turn on - it is dead. When you break a telly and it won't turn on - it's dead. But we can repair it and bring it back to life, just as it was. With humans and animals, we cannot do that. We are mortal creatures. Once we die, we cannot be put together even if all our organs are in perfect conditions. Even if we make the blood in the veins flow. It's impossible to be brought back to life. So something is missing. Maybe the soul..? Now think about this for a minute. You know how some people have a car crash and are brain-dead for a few minutes. Then the medics arrive and sometimes, if they are quick enough, they manage to bring them back to life with different techniques. Some of those people that do come back report going through a tunnel and experiencing unconditional love. Then they say how they met dead relatives and talked to them. Many of them even tell the doctors what procedures and what conversations the doctors had between each other. They did experience this. However, there can be 2 explainations - they either imagined all this or they truly exited their body and experienced this. And here is the big one - you cannot imagine anything when your brain shows 0 activity - you are brain dead! There are thousands of reported cases when a person experiences things like these while brain dead. The phenomena is called Near Death Experience (NDE) and if you think what I just wrote makes sense - dwell deeper and find what it's all about. Being scared of dying is being scared of the unknown. Make it known and stop being afraid of death.

Wow you are a dumbass

On October 13 2011 03:25 D_smart_S wrote: So the questions of the day are - are we machines or do we have souls that leave the body and go somewhere else when we die. Is there an afterlife? Well, here is something to think about. If we are just our bodies that means we are biological machines. When you break your computer and it won't turn on - it is dead. When you break a telly and it won't turn on - it's dead. But we can repair it and bring it back to life, just as it was. With humans and animals, we cannot do that. We are mortal creatures. Once we die, we cannot be put together even if all our organs are in perfect conditions. Even if we make the blood in the veins flow. It's impossible to be brought back to life. So something is missing. Maybe the soul..? Now think about this for a minute. You know how some people have a car crash and are brain-dead for a few minutes. Then the medics arrive and sometimes, if they are quick enough, they manage to bring them back to life with different techniques. Some of those people that do come back report going through a tunnel and experiencing unconditional love. Then they say how they met dead relatives and talked to them. Many of them even tell the doctors what procedures and what conversations the doctors had between each other. They did experience this. However, there can be 2 explainations - they either imagined all this or they truly exited their body and experienced this. And here is the big one - you cannot imagine anything when your brain shows 0 activity - you are brain dead! There are thousands of reported cases when a person experiences things like these while brain dead. The phenomena is called Near Death Experience (NDE) and if you think what I just wrote makes sense - dwell deeper and find what it's all about. Being scared of dying is being scared of the unknown. Make it known and stop being afraid of death.

LOL this pretty much proves all my theories in the political threads, sorry my friend but you are retarded.

Computers and TVs are not alive, a lightbult is not a life form, they have no consciousness.

If you kill a plant, you cant bring it back to life either, does that mean they have souls too? or there is a plant heaven? lol.

We are just far too complex to bring us back to life with our current technology in a distant future we will probably be able to do thinks like that, hell we will probably eventually discard our frail biological bodies.

People seeing white lights and dead relatives when they are unconscious is not proof of anything besides that they imagined it, take an LSD drop and you will see dead relatives too.

If the brain has literally no activity and the person comes back to life you have to realize this person has a process of "wakening" when its brain regains its functions in this moment he could very easily see many things just like a dream.

If they are able to tell the doctors about their conversations well its simply that they heard them in a lower level of consciousness, how is this any less plausible and logical than an afterlife lol.

On October 13 2011 05:07 Zorglub wrote: You can only judge by comparison thus people who never existed don't know what they are missing, but people who lived have something to compare with non existence.

You are speaking as if you had consciousness in death or before life, there is no thing to compare after non-existence since you dont have a consciousness, death is EXACTLY the same state as before you were born, absolute nothingness.

Yes Rik's approach on suicide is just simplistic and dumb

PD: oh i didnt see that Locoo pointed out Dsmart's idiotic post before me, thanks.

On October 13 2011 12:20 Baalim wrote: LOL this pretty much proves all my theories in the political threads, sorry my friend but you are retarded. Computers and TVs are not alive, a lightbult is not a life form, they have no consciousness. If you kill a plant, you cant bring it back to life either, does that mean they have souls too? or there is a plant heaven? lol. We are just far too complex to bring us back to life with our current technology in a distant future we will probably be able to do thinks like that, hell we will probably eventually discard our frail biological bodies. People seeing white lights and dead relatives when they are unconscious is not proof of anything besides that they imagined it, take an LSD drop and you will see dead relatives too. If the brain has literally no activity and the person comes back to life you have to realize this person has a process of "wakening" when its brain regains its functions in this moment he could very easily see many things just like a dream. If they are able to tell the doctors about their conversations well its simply that they heard them in a lower level of consciousness, how is this any less plausible and logical than an afterlife lol.

You really thought that I meant that the TV and computers have conciousness? LoL c'mon you are not palak...
The waking process is a like a second. Do you say that the brain has a built-in program to develop in that instant a false memory of a long conversation between you and dead relatives? Why? So that you are confused throughout your whole life? LoL gimme a break.
And also there are thousands of cases where patients have the same experience where they come out of their body and after hours of surgery and tell the doctors exactly what instruments they used and how they looked and visual details that eliminate every possibility of "she heard it while unconcious".
What you did in your post is you twisted part of my post to look stupid - "oh he thinks the TV is alive and has a soul lol idiot" - which is not what I wrote and it is clear to 5 year olds I'm sure.
Then you basically scratched off all reliability of the thousands of people who speak of having the same extraordinary experience. You find it much more compelling that it is some kind of a quick false memory imprint.
And all that you wrote is because you are a relatively closed minded person who puts things in set frames - Either Religion is right and there is Heaven and Hell or I am right and there is nothingness and we have no souls. The Religion is there to trick you and you fall for it. Why don't you spend an hour watching a documentary on Quantum Physics. You like science and evidence, right? You like Einstein, right? Einstein started his research into a Theory of Everything or The Unified Field Theory that should explain how all the Universe works and he couldn't come to formulate his theory but he concluded "it has something to do with consciousness...". A long time has passed and science has finished Einstein's path. Would you please watch a documentary on quantum physics and tell me what you think of the universe again. I would love to see if you manage to put down your ego and be open minded as you proudly say you are.

On October 13 2011 00:00 eso wrote: the infinity of 'those' who never exist does not experience a thing at all, while those who exist suffer the inevitable of having life taken away. feeling sorry for 'someone' who never existed - sperms that lost le race? people can relate to others, thus feeling sorry I guess.

they suffer life taken away while still alive. Once dead, they don't suffer anymore, theyre in the same state as people who have never existed.

On October 13 2011 00:08 Stroggoz wrote: 1)why are you assuming there are an infinite amount of people who hanv't existed yet. for all you know there could be 1 trillion humans left to be born before our race is wiped out or evolves into something inhuman. .

non-existing people is not limited to those who might have been born, its basicelly infinite. Werewolf have never had the chance live, witches have never have the chance to live, an infinity of starcraft zerglings have never had the chance to live. Why is it we feel sad for someone who does not exist anymore, but not for those who never even had the chance to exist? they are both in the exact same state of not existing at all.

There's one thing that worries me

We can agree at least one of those 2 things is true:

#1 Life > death or Existing > not existing
#2 Death > Life or Not existing > existing.

Then if #1 is true, then it means an INFINITY of people/things (batman, your third bw game's marine, your dead grand father, the millions of possible child you would have had if you got girls pregnant instead of jerking off, etc etc etc) are all currently in a state that is way inferior to our state. Isn't that kind of sad/unfair etc?

However, we can't really feel sad for something which doesn't even exist. But then why would we feel sad for ourselves once we don't even exist anymore?

one of the few things i get pissed off about are people i know that dont try to live up to their potential coz its pretty much the same as not living

also people are sad when someone dies cause of the things they've shared with them, everything they've lived through together and the fact that they will never be there for them again which pretty much sucks

what your real question should be is if we should really be afraid of death and its a pretty no brain answer - No

also your theory is based on things we dont yet understand so its pretty much pointless as well even philosophicaly ( even though philosophy is supposed to be limitless ) ...


P.S. Its funny how everyone talks about things before or after death when you have absolutely no information about it whatsoever

On October 13 2011 14:36 Floofy wrote: Show nested quote + On October 13 2011 00:08 Stroggoz wrote: 1)why are you assuming there are an infinite amount of people who hanv't existed yet. for all you know there could be 1 trillion humans left to be born before our race is wiped out or evolves into something inhuman. . non-existing people is not limited to those who might have been born, its basicelly infinite. Werewolf have never had the chance live, witches have never have the chance to live, an infinity of starcraft zerglings have never had the chance to live. Why is it we feel sad for someone who does not exist anymore, but not for those who never even had the chance to exist? they are both in the exact same state of not existing at all.

i think the answer is pretty obvious, our brain cannot see people who havn't existed, therefore there is nothing for it to get sad about. We get sad about people who do not exist anymore because had feelings for them. Our brain can't have feelings for something that hasn't existed before to us. I mean i don't get sad about any human that's died before 2000 years ago because i dont know any of them, just like i dont know people that havn't existed.

our brain has a certain perception of reality that's all.

if you look at the science, it is clear that we, our planet, infact our entire solar system is nothing more than a bit of clumped up elements floating at a vaguely definable point in the universe. our existence is meaningless; we haven't achieved consciousness for any specific purpose-- not even for the prurient delight of some great sky wizard.

with that clear, the only purpose is therefore whatever we assign it to be. here is where life can become difficult, if you cannot overcome the knowledge that everything around you is literally pointless, ie utterly devoid of any inherent meaning, it is very difficult to live a happy or at least motvated life because of the way our brains have happened to evolve (ie evolved to have a feeling that there is a true purpose; when the purpose is simply to propagate the species).

this is a problem i grapple with constantly.. and the question exists in the first place because our mental biology is not equipped for such a fact to be realized.

I haven't been successful in dealing with it and thus my motivation in life wavers frequently, I've gone so far as to consider adopting a theistic view or religion (using the reasoning that maybe maybe maybe there is a supernatural entity behind the fabric of what we know as reality) in order to give myself a reason to exist and thus assuage my unrealistic mental biology, but I have not yet been able to convince myself to believe in something that has no evidence of existence.

btw I know most people have realized that there really is no inherent point to it all and yet still live productive lives, so I'd like any tips you have for that. (seriously rofl)

this topic goes far beyond simple philosophical hot air as well, for instance: investigation into the psychology of nearly every highly motivated or great person ever put under the lens of psychology has shown that a strong value system and feeling of meaning in life is an absolutely core anchor to their drive to do whatever it is they do. this holds for any lesser known individuals as well.

btw there is nothing intrinsically superior to existing or not existing as that would infer a greater meaning in the universe (ie an inherent purpose to your being born). Existing is preferable to most living organisms merely because that is the state they happen to find themselves in at the moment.


many of your questions would be answered by a basic psychology and a basic philosophy course in any reputable institution of higher learning, I recommend taking them if you are interested in the subject.


btw btw

On October 13 2011 03:25 D_smart_S wrote: So the questions of the day are - are we machines or do we have souls that leave the body and go somewhere else when we die. Is there an afterlife? Well, here is something to think about. If we are just our bodies that means we are biological machines. When you break your computer and it won't turn on - it is dead. When you break a telly and it won't turn on - it's dead. But we can repair it and bring it back to life, just as it was. With humans and animals, we cannot do that. We are mortal creatures. Once we die, we cannot be put together even if all our organs are in perfect conditions. Even if we make the blood in the veins flow. It's impossible to be brought back to life. So something is missing. Maybe the soul..? Now think about this for a minute. You know how some people have a car crash and are brain-dead for a few minutes. Then the medics arrive and sometimes, if they are quick enough, they manage to bring them back to life with different techniques. Some of those people that do come back report going through a tunnel and experiencing unconditional love. Then they say how they met dead relatives and talked to them. Many of them even tell the doctors what procedures and what conversations the doctors had between each other. They did experience this. However, there can be 2 explainations - they either imagined all this or they truly exited their body and experienced this. And here is the big one - you cannot imagine anything when your brain shows 0 activity - you are brain dead! There are thousands of reported cases when a person experiences things like these while brain dead. The phenomena is called Near Death Experience (NDE) and if you think what I just wrote makes sense - dwell deeper and find what it's all about. Being scared of dying is being scared of the unknown. Make it known and stop being afraid of death.

Actually i've had philosophical lessons but, idk, it never truly answered those questions. I've seen a book about death that i considered buying since they claimed they could convince people death is ok, but hey, it costed 40 bucks

Also i understand we get sad for people who died because of feelings we had for them, etc, but i think its usually more than that. If a random kid in the streets dies, we are sad not because we will miss him, but because we feel "sad for him" because hes going to miss his life and will instead go into a state of not existing.

But if we are sad for that kid who will not exist instead of living a full life, then we could very well be sad for an infinity of people/things who will not exist instead of living a full life =/

On October 13 2011 12:59 D_smart_S wrote: Show nested quote + On October 13 2011 12:20 Baalim wrote: LOL this pretty much proves all my theories in the political threads, sorry my friend but you are retarded. Computers and TVs are not alive, a lightbult is not a life form, they have no consciousness. If you kill a plant, you cant bring it back to life either, does that mean they have souls too? or there is a plant heaven? lol. We are just far too complex to bring us back to life with our current technology in a distant future we will probably be able to do thinks like that, hell we will probably eventually discard our frail biological bodies. People seeing white lights and dead relatives when they are unconscious is not proof of anything besides that they imagined it, take an LSD drop and you will see dead relatives too. If the brain has literally no activity and the person comes back to life you have to realize this person has a process of "wakening" when its brain regains its functions in this moment he could very easily see many things just like a dream. If they are able to tell the doctors about their conversations well its simply that they heard them in a lower level of consciousness, how is this any less plausible and logical than an afterlife lol. You really thought that I meant that the TV and computers have conciousness? LoL c'mon you are not palak... The waking process is a like a second. Do you say that the brain has a built-in program to develop in that instant a false memory of a long conversation between you and dead relatives? Why? So that you are confused throughout your whole life? LoL gimme a break. And also there are thousands of cases where patients have the same experience where they come out of their body and after hours of surgery and tell the doctors exactly what instruments they used and how they looked and visual details that eliminate every possibility of "she heard it while unconcious". What you did in your post is you twisted part of my post to look stupid - "oh he thinks the TV is alive and has a soul lol idiot" - which is not what I wrote and it is clear to 5 year olds I'm sure. Then you basically scratched off all reliability of the thousands of people who speak of having the same extraordinary experience. You find it much more compelling that it is some kind of a quick false memory imprint. And all that you wrote is because you are a relatively closed minded person who puts things in set frames - Either Religion is right and there is Heaven and Hell or I am right and there is nothingness and we have no souls. The Religion is there to trick you and you fall for it. Why don't you spend an hour watching a documentary on Quantum Physics. You like science and evidence, right? You like Einstein, right? Einstein started his research into a Theory of Everything or The Unified Field Theory that should explain how all the Universe works and he couldn't come to formulate his theory but he concluded "it has something to do with consciousness...". A long time has passed and science has finished Einstein's path. Would you please watch a documentary on quantum physics and tell me what you think of the universe again. I would love to see if you manage to put down your ego and be open minded as you proudly say you are.

Watching 1hour of quantum physics youtube video is the reason why your so fucking dumb and make the most retarded pseudoscience'ish interpretations.

heres wiki quote:

The quantum mind or quantum consciousness hypothesis proposes that classical mechanics cannot explain consciousness, while quantum mechanical phenomena, such as quantum entanglement and superposition, may play an important part in the brain's function, and could form the basis of an explanation of consciousness. There are several quite distinct quantum mind theories, and these are discussed in the sections below. This school of thought is rejected by the majority of the quantum physics community.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind

It's always nice when you trust wikipedia rather than compare what experts on both sides say. It's like going to a friend and asking him if the movie is good or not and then basing your opinion on that without even watching the movie. It is so funny how so many people use ONLY wikipedia to inform themselves. You are all little fish that see the bait with a worm on it and go for it. It's so easy to disinform the masses these days and they even like it which is funnier. You don't go to the source of knowledge, you ask someone to tell you in a sentence or two what it's all about and you are pleased when you hear that it's all the same as it was cause you won't need to change your belief system. You are a typical ignorant sheep.

I think people r thinking about humans in the wrong way.
U r assuming we r all actually human and not cyborgs implanted with super tiny computer chips which can't be detected by microscopes.

On October 15 2011 04:51 D_smart_S wrote: It's always nice when you trust wikipedia rather than compare what experts on both sides say. It's like going to a friend and asking him if the movie is good or not and then basing your opinion on that without even watching the movie. It is so funny how so many people use ONLY wikipedia to inform themselves. You are all little fish that see the bait with a worm on it and go for it. It's so easy to disinform the masses these days and they even like it which is funnier. You don't go to the source of knowledge, you ask someone to tell you in a sentence or two what it's all about and you are pleased when you hear that it's all the same as it was cause you won't need to change your belief system. You are a typical ignorant sheep.

i accept my ignorance concerning such subjects as quantum physics, your the one who thinks you have a grasp of the subject by watching some fucking retarded quantum physics youtube videos. the wiki link was just to show you that interpretations trying to quantify consciousness using quantum physics is something that's NOT accepted by majority of the field itself. Its just some pseudoscience retards who have no or little clue about the field that make those correlations you seem to think. Go join a New Age sect and do humanity a favor and drink that fruit punch.

On October 13 2011 21:16 Floofy wrote: Actually i've had philosophical lessons but, idk, it never truly answered those questions. I've seen a book about death that i considered buying since they claimed they could convince people death is ok, but hey, it costed 40 bucks Also i understand we get sad for people who died because of feelings we had for them, etc, but i think its usually more than that. If a random kid in the streets dies, we are sad not because we will miss him, but because we feel "sad for him" because hes going to miss his life and will instead go into a state of not existing. But if we are sad for that kid who will not exist instead of living a full life, then we could very well be sad for an infinity of people/things who will not exist instead of living a full life =/

I have a simple explanation for your problem at least to some degree. We aren't sad because they stop existing, we are sad because we will miss them, we feel sad for ourselves, and maybe for the other relatives close to the people that dies that will miss him/her too, but we don't really feel sorry for the person that is dead because well, he/she is dead, doesn't feel a thing anymore.

Now theres also intances when you feel sorry for a small baby that dies and can't make it, probably the sadness is a mixture of his pain while dying and the fact that we as a species still can't control the fact that some of us will die at birth, but not because of sole fact that the baby is dead.

im pretty sure Hitler killed himself because he was likely to suffer a very slow painful death

would it be reasonable to say that being sad and empathy in general is a sort of evolutionary response ultimately rooted in the instincts towards the furthering of our species, ie its a mechanism to encourage us to prevent harm from befalling our fellows

from there I'd say the various things people get sad about are just dysfunctions/peripheral results of said mechanism

we have lost everything once we were born.

had we not been born we would have never been deprived of anything.

giving life to a new consciousness is equivalent to creating a need that does not need to exist.

there is no entity that wants to come into being. parents procreate selfishly.

once born we are consuming machines with desires that can never be satisfied.

non-existence is superior to life.