what else can I try

move to other network?

youre a losing player right now because of your mental state, thats just my 2 cents.. watch some vids, boost your ego and then you'll be able to pull off an A-game session again i guess..

On May 14 2010 16:30 dUUd_ wrote: move to other network?

this
+ u can try SNGS
-> small brankroll needed ( 400$ for 11$ HU SNGS / 200$ for 6.50$ 18man SNGS etc. )

however its all variance , too ^^

Last month i was crushing the 18man 6.50$ over 320games for +500$ profits
and this month i cant win shit in them ...
however i was breaking even in HU SNG last months and nowadays i somehow cursh them...


Just try a bunch of different stuff within your BR where u are +EV and be aware that Variance > all

quit

nl25 is impossible, nothing u can do

take a break.
like 2 weeks.
If you still lose quit poker.

you need to forget and erase everything you think you know about poker and start all over.

play 4 tables max and with every hand and every decision ask yourself why am i raising/folding/calling
start eliminating mistakes preflop and move from there

cut down 3betting OOP?
play mostly for value?

dunno man, really sick to see you go from nl200 to nl25

I think I've been trying to do that hellokittery...



if anyone has any comments..

seems pretty standard
you could just be running bad =/

maybe i can coach u cuz ur a good guy

would like to help you but i cant beat NL50 cashgame anymore either ( lolz)

I know I'm the last person you would ever take advice from, so I'll just be ultra vague and offer conceptual ideas rather than actual poker advice. Try loosening up, cut down to like 1 table and just explore the game, make it fun again. Think outside the box. Try new things. Play like 30/20/2.5. Get in there and mix it up. Dont sit back and recall those vids and articles and howto guides you read about how others beat the game. Beat it for yourself. It's ok to open limp. It's ok to defend your blind lightly. It's ok not to cbet, and it's ok to take passive routes and check call with bad pairs. I dunno, I just kinda feel like you still do everything by the book, and play on autopilot they way "you are supposed to play".

On May 14 2010 17:56 donkey wrote: maybe i can coach u cuz ur a good guy

u play cash like one time a year, and ur usually drunk at that time

and meh I doubt I'm just running bad, been losing for probably 50k hands now and lost probably ~40 buyins. I've had a couple of generous and experienced players sweat me and I've tried to put into effect the ideas and things they have pointed out but obv it has been to no avail :/

get on, i'll coach u i can easily beat that level

yes u r running bad sir , 50 K hands = 5 months ?
http://img375.imageshack.us/i/udonuthin.jpg/
u have to grind it out

On May 14 2010 18:26 r0mx0 wrote: yes u r running bad sir , 50 K hands = 5 months ? http://img375.imageshack.us/i/udonuthin.jpg/ u have to grind it out

no since the real DS that killed me which started like the end of april.

TBH it is probably quite a few more hands than 50k, I just don't have the databases available (was travelling)

Well I'm a "winning" 25nl reg - my stats are similar but i cbet less - like ~60%

Is this on FTP? goddamn FTP players don't fold to cbets as much because they all watch CR. Well at least that's what I think.

$2/$4 PLH SH 305 $-1,397 -57.26 $39 $13 Dec 22nd, 2009
$2/$4 NLH SH 4,457 $-946 -2.65 $527 $174 Dec 22nd, 2009
$1/$2 NLH HU 2,299 $-1,071 -11.65 $136 $45 Feb 27th, 2010

PTR graph > seems to me like u win some money and move up higher and loose , what BRM do u use ? 50+ bi would help a lot

we need to have a chat sir...

Maybe I have some tips, think I was around 4,5BB/100 over 70k samplesize on that limit.

Make sure you do what you can do to play your best, by that I mean, eat/sleep right, focus when you play. Everything turned off, just poker, breath, have water, never longer than 60-90 minute sessions. 3-4 Tables, nothing more, and just think, use 5-6 sec each hand even if it's easy. Then it starts to make sense, and it's easy to get a nit to fold if he missed, easy to not go crazy with JJ, TT, AQ, vs people who are from early poss who play tight, easier to valuebet fish, easy to let go of medium/strong hands when the fish suddenly re raise you on the turn, things just makes sense and it's a lot easier.

Study The Poker Blueprint, just redo it, use a few days, study it, read it, take notes, then go over easy game volume 1,2. And if you're annoyed at the regulars, read Crushing Mid Stakes regular. Also, siiick small sample size, just play x4 as much as you are now, or put in x4 as much poker, by that, studying, reading, reviewing hands, whatever, that counts as well.

Maybe most important thing when playing, table selection, atleast 1 fish, find/spot the fish on each table, and target them, go out of your way to target them, don't share the fish, if a fish is in the pot, and so is a regular, raise, iso, whatever, if a fish raise pre, 3b, just do whatever you can to be in pots with fish as often as you can. It does wonders for your winrate. Just find out how much you can iso to all the different fish, and valuebet, find out if they fold to c bet if they miss or call down no matter what, and have that note on them, and just keep doing it.

Vs Regs, just surprise them, or confuse them, 3b smaller, or larger, if you check to a preflop raiser, he c bets, you call, lead out turn, just do something weird and they get confused and want to see what's up. Vs 80% of the other ppl, the fishes and bad ppl, just valuebet and fold if raised, if it's one of them spastic fishes, who limp and call a lot, but make weird aggro lines, raises, or shoves that doesn't make sense, those you can call light.

Can't say too much about the stats, because that doesn't matter, if you have 2 tight ppl behind, every single co and btn, just open, free money, if u get 3b, or played back at a lot, either leave the table, or tighten ur range a lot.

Ok, a bit of a rant, hope any of it helps, gl hf xD

3-4 Tables, nothing more, and just think, use 5-6 sec each hand even if it's easythis. like seriously, take the time for your decisions.

1) this will make your opponents think youre not mindlessly cbetting every flop
2)this will give you the possibility to think about the rest of the hand: what if i get raised, what cards are good to barrel on etc
3) itll give u time to think about your betsizing. it does not make sense to bet 2/3rd pot every fucking time. sometimes youre better off betting smaller to get thin value, or to get people to spazz at you
4) itll give you time to think about what your opponent is doing: why does he donk the river, why does he raise the flop and is he doing it mostly with valuehands or not

etc

FR nut peddle for a bit? Take a break for a month or two?

On May 14 2010 19:52 Cooperstown83 wrote: FR nut peddle for a bit? Take a break for a month or two?

On May 14 2010 19:15 r0mx0 wrote: $2/$4 PLH SH 305 $-1,397 -57.26 $39 $13 Dec 22nd, 2009 $2/$4 NLH SH 4,457 $-946 -2.65 $527 $174 Dec 22nd, 2009 $1/$2 NLH HU 2,299 $-1,071 -11.65 $136 $45 Feb 27th, 2010 PTR graph > seems to me like u win some money and move up higher and loose , what BRM do u use ? 50+ bi would help a lot

his current problem is completely different from what u think.
after being a solid winner at NL100 and Nl200 he started losing
and it never stopped ... now he is down to NL25

The only thing I can say here is that I'm going to be rooting for your return to form Terren

I think he changed his game when he started losing, I don't know for sure, but if he's 3B% is 4%, not much of a stats guy, but isn't the standard around 8% on 100nl, 200nl

Maybe he's started to cut corners cos he can't take the losing, maybe giving up +EV spot to avoid losing ? like uhm, AK, instead of 4B/shoving, he just calls, hope to hit and release ? I dunno, might be something

thanks mariuslol that is a really good post.. I keep trying to do some things like this but not following through long enough. Really need to.

what are you doing wrong?

if you can answer this question, you can answer your first question. hint: fix whatever's wrong.

if you are having trouble identifying what's wrong, then you are either playing too many tables or being VERY stubborn, or both. ANY time you lose a pot, try to determine what you could have done differently, to either save money or win the pot. you'll eventually notice patterns, if you actually take the time and put in the effort to pay attention. spend time playing 1 or 2 tables, focusing on what's right and what's not, what lines you have or haven't considered, and work on changing your game accordingly.

this is what i really hate about ptr. fucking site reminds you of how bad you've been doing, before it just used to be " it'll turn around" and it really does in time. that fucking site just shows you how insurmountable in $ it is when you move down. my advice to you is, don't be like me and keep looking at PTR how much love lost for the past 2 years lol.

go back to cake for a while

drop down to NL 5 and feel like a boss. Then go back up when the confidence is back.

Hey i just finished going through a 20 bi downswing, and one of the things that helped me get out of the rut was teaching someone while you session. So have your brother, gf, a friend, anyone, watch you play while you session, and teach them poker. Explain to them why your doing what your doing, why one play is better than the other, and even though this might get kinda distracting it helps you (or at least helped me) rebuild a your game. Another thing is you'll be much less likely to tilt with someone sitting there that your teaching.

gl

well this is probably a bad advice but what I do is if I'm losing i'll sit there till i'm back up >.> yea bad idea but it works for me lol

On May 15 2010 04:21 Jhyun88 wrote: well this is probably a bad advice but what I do is if I'm losing i'll sit there till i'm back up >.> yea bad idea but it works for me lol

:

Those stats you show look good. What about call f cbet, raise f cbet? 3bet is small, what kind of hands are you 3betting with, unpolarized ranges? Pretty bad that your button is negative. How much are you adjusting what you do to the other players at the table and their stats? Have you looked at individual hand types: suited connectors, low pockets, nonsuited gappers.
For individual hands look at: your high pockets pairs, their winrate (is it normal? if it's high or low could mean you're playing them over aggressively, too passively, not letting them go, letting them go too easily), the bb/hand, how frequently you're getting them. 50k hands is a decent sample, but you could just be on a sick terrible run where you're not getting your profitable hands as often, losing more frequently than you should when you do, running into cooler situations more often than the norm, etc. Look at mid pockets, high suited connectors, AK, hands you should be profitable with. Do a pot size analysis. Look at how many pots you won/lost 2-5 bbs 5-10, 10-30, 30-80, 80+. If you're losing more than winning in one of those ranges then you may be spewing in one type of frequently occurring situation. Maybe in smaller pots you're involving yourself superficially and too often giving up or the complete opposite, maybe you're spewing in large pots and don't even realize it. For example of how badly this can effect your bottom line think about if you spew 40 bbs of equity every 600 hands in one bad call or shove in a 200 bb pot. Your bb/100 drops 6.7 from your overall total and your stats would still look nearly the same.
I'd be willing to do an in depth analysis for you for a few hundred.

thanks for the suggestions jchysk

I will write a to-do list and try to tackle most of the things mentioned in the thread so far over the coming days

Not like i beat nl200+ but you should work more on your game, i've seen a couple of hands, your reasonings are flawed. Also your stats are way too low for 6max, there is a difference between living your dreams and dreaming your life, time to get a job imo and keep poker as a hobby...

hi, im also a nl25 grinder and i notice some differences in our stats

1. aggression factor - i think your af is a bit high ...ive looked at most winning regs on nl25 and they have values of 2-3. and on the river they have a really low af which means they are very careful on the river. you could also be bluffing too much.

2. flop/turn cbet % - i see a big difference between your flop and turn cbet %. i think this means you are cbetting flop and then giving up the turn often. you should pay attention to when your flop cbetting. have a plan on what your gonna do on the turn/river. ex. i like to cbet/lead(only against passive players) flop when there are tons of turn cards that can improve my hand so i can cbet turn more often. flop cbetting is very important and you should make sure you know which flops to cbet your entire range and against what type of player. sometimes it could be better to just check back flop and evaluate turn rather than cbetting.

3. 3betting - my 3 bet is 6-7%. i think you should try to 3bet more.

4. vs 3bet call % - i think you are folding to 3 bets too often. you can try calling with more hands that can play post-flop against weaker/LAG/retarded players.

this is my first post and i have no idea what im talking abt...but i hope i helped

hehe thanks

Having a low AF factor on the river at micro usually means you're not value betting well enough, it rarely means you're bluffing too much imo. I don't know how you play so I could be wrong. Your stats look fine except your 3bet from blinds is awfully high compared to late position, try 3betting IP more and less OOP. You don't have to 3bet 6-7% especially at NL25, you can pretty much only 3bet for value and still be fine. Fold to 3bet looks a bit high but again it's just a stat. 8k hands is also a small sample. Your c-bet flop and turn are both fine imo. Taking a break definitely helps when you're running bad. Hope your run bad ends soon.

yah I am really trying to play stronger and make sure I'm making the best action on the river. Making sure I don't miss valuebets or bluff in hopeless spots

I'm trying to re tune my aggression cuz I know I've been cbetting and 2barreling-giving up in a lot of hopeless 2brl spots

There's nothing wrong with giving up, at NL25 your barreling range should be heavily weighted towards value anyway since everyone calls too much. You don't have to pull off multi barrel bluffs to maintain image or make money, you can only bet for value and still crush, all of which I'm sure you know but can be easy to forget when you're in a downswing and getting coolered in value spots or getting bad hands to vbet with, etc.

On May 17 2010 17:14 zulu_nation8 wrote: There's nothing wrong with giving up, at NL25 your barreling range should be heavily weighted towards value anyway since everyone calls too much. You don't have to pull off multi barrel bluffs to maintain image or make money, you can only bet for value and still crush, all of which I'm sure you know but can be easy to forget when you're in a downswing and getting coolered in value spots or getting bad hands to vbet with, etc.

yah, I'm focusing on not putting money in without a strong hand lol, not 2brl'ing in bad spots or not extremely high EV spots because of some explicitly good reason

On May 17 2010 16:02 zulu_nation8 wrote: Having a low AF factor on the river at micro usually means you're not value betting well enough, it rarely means you're bluffing too much imo. I don't know how you play so I could be wrong. Your stats look fine except your 3bet from blinds is awfully high compared to late position, try 3betting IP more and less OOP. You don't have to 3bet 6-7% especially at NL25, you can pretty much only 3bet for value and still be fine. Fold to 3bet looks a bit high but again it's just a stat. 8k hands is also a small sample. Your c-bet flop and turn are both fine imo. Taking a break definitely helps when you're running bad. Hope your run bad ends soon.

sorry i didn't mean that low of AF that you're not value betting river. but its usually lower than the flop/turn AF cause you only want to value bet and not bluff. so I was talking to abt the river agg compared to the flop/turn agg. and the bluffing part wasn't the river. it could be the flop/turn where he is betting in bad spots.