Creative Line. Might work sometimes? Yes/No?

Submitted by : hiems

***** Hand History for Game 41407845176 ***** Poker Stars
$10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, March 19, 06:36:10 ET 2010
Table Calvinia VIII Real Money
Seat 2 is the button
Seat 1: lorenzzozo $5.20 USD
Seat 2: Hero $11.05 USD
Seat 4: Dr_Hedman $25.60 USD
Seat 5: AOE_Player $9.55 USD
Dr_Hedman posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
AOE_Player posts big blind [$0.10 USD].

Holecards
Dealt to Hero [ ]
lorenzzozo calls [$0.10 USD]
Hero raises [$0.50 USD]
Dr_Hedman folds
AOE_Player folds
lorenzzozo calls [$0.40 USD]

Flop (Pot : $1.15)

   
lorenzzozo checks
Hero bets [$0.70 USD]
lorenzzozo calls [$0.70 USD]

Turn (Pot : $2.55)

   
lorenzzozo checks
Hero bets [$0.70 USD]
lorenzzozo raises [$4.00 USD]
Hero folds
lorenzzozo wins $3.30 USD
lorenzzozo wins $3.80 USD from main pot

without reading your explanation

horrible because no one cares about your image at your stake, especially considering "40/0 fish"

It will work sometimes but i think the best way to profit in NL10 is to play by the book and to grind.

don't bluff fish

when you're good enough to bluff fish, you'll know it's a spot to be bluffing the fish, and you know you will get away with it.

otherwise, don't bluff the fish.

FPS @ nl10 = -EV

Haha. Im just waiting to get owned on this thread hard now that I regret posting it.

But really, if I'm not making this play postflop. Im not making the extremellllly loose isolation preflop against a half stack with a crappy hand.

You're not gonna get owned in this thread. It's good you are thinking about your actions and villains actions. True a .70 bet will have the same affect as another, because villain is either folding or calling here regardless. Your bet doesnt mean anything to him, he's just deciding what to do with his hand. At these limits though, and especially players you identify as donks, I would never double barrel. If he called you on the flop then from his point of view, his hand is callable. Given that robotic perspective, why would he ever fold the turn?

Since the extent of your bluffing really just consists of cbetting at these limits, I wouldnt cbet a 3bet pot with air either. It's one thing for him to flat call or limp/call your initial raise, but having the 3bet in there changes things enough to consider he must have *something* to be raising/calling with, since fish dont really raise that much ever.

Okay you're having a lot of trouble with FPS and you don't seem to realize bluffing has a lot less to do with your hand then it does your opponent's hand and the board texture.

Look at the flop. Think about what your opponent might call with on this flop and create a range that will continue on the turn.

Once you do this, you'll realize this is the absolute worst board to randomly decide to double barrel, and if for some reason you have no choice other than to bluff, this is literally the worst possible sizing you could possibly do.

Well yeah. I know this is FPS, but im basically experimenting. I decided to embrace FPS for the moment at NL 10. I think its perfect cause I won't lose much money if whatever play fails.

And yeah, Im learning that the most important thing about bluffing is your opponent.

But the bluff is not so much meant for the turn but supposed to set up for a perfect river shove.

And the premise of the bluff in terms of my opponent is that he is passive...so theres alot of draws, weak pairs that might just call, thus creating dead money for me on the river.

Of course, this depends on the fact that he will fold those weak pairs and draws on the river. But I have basically decided to take an "Aggressive mentality" that bad players at NL 10 are bad...And while that usually means being passive and calling too much, Im taking the mentality that they are weak players in general and I don't mind so much experimenting with really aggressive plays like this one.

bluffing a 40/0 fish on this board is not a good idea...

I'd raise a large portion of the time with your pussy bet.

haters gon hate

nothing creative here

instead of the .70 bet on the flop, why not a .4 bet on the flop?

On March 19 2010 19:51 hiems wrote: Well yeah. I know this is FPS, but im basically experimenting. I decided to embrace FPS for the moment at NL 10. I think its perfect cause I won't lose much money if whatever play fails. And yeah, Im learning that the most important thing about bluffing is your opponent. But the bluff is not so much meant for the turn but supposed to set up for a perfect river shove. And the premise of the bluff in terms of my opponent is that he is passive...so theres alot of draws, weak pairs that might just call, thus creating dead money for me on the river. Of course, this depends on the fact that he will fold those weak pairs and draws on the river. But I have basically decided to take an "Aggressive mentality" that bad players at NL 10 are bad...And while that usually means being passive and calling too much, Im taking the mentality that they are weak players in general and I don't mind so much experimenting with really aggressive plays like this one.

well if u think about the advice in this thread for a moment u will start to learn the thought processes you should be having as well as how you can investigate a line without having to burn money, plus the result of doing this a couple of times and it working (or not working) aren't really a good indicator of if this line is any good or not

On March 19 2010 18:02 Into Infinity wrote: without reading your explanation horrible because no one cares about your image at your stake, especially considering "40/0 fish"

this is bullshit, 40/0 people are aware on whos raising them 30+% of the time they limp and adjust by check raising bluffing flops and shit.

FPS on the micros at its finest





Submitted by : NewbSaibot

Full Tilt Poker Game #19406690516: Table Flash - $0.02/$0.05 - No Limit Hold'em - 4:51:43 ET - 2010/03/20
Seat 1: Anty81 ($12.38)
Seat 2: Hero ($5.95)
Seat 3: cheep06 ($6.34)
Seat 4: Skirts01 ($5.49)
Seat 5: Jurado01 ($5)
Seat 6: mrbeast87 ($13.99)
Seat 7: sisaoknight ($5)
Seat 8: xVoZarx ($2.20)
Seat 9: Manijak75 ($7.12)
Anty81 posts the small blind of $0.02
Hero posts the big blind of $0.05
The button is in seat #9

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to Hero
cheep06 folds
Skirts01 raises to $0.10
Jurado01 folds
mrbeast87 folds
sisaoknight folds
xVoZarx folds
Manijak75 calls $0.10
Anty81 folds
Hero raises to $0.35
Skirts01 raises to $0.60
Manijak75 folds
Hero calls $0.25

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $1.32)

   
Hero checks
Skirts01 bets $0.05
Hero raises to $1
Skirts01 has 15 seconds left to act
Skirts01 raises to $1.95
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero has requested TIME
Hero calls $0.95

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $5.22)

   
Hero bets $3.40, and is all in
Skirts01 calls $2.94, and is all in
Hero shows
Skirts01 shows
Uncalled bet of $0.46 returned to Hero

River (Pot : $11.10)

   
Hero shows two pair, Queens and Sevens
Skirts01 shows two pair, Queens and Sevens
Hero ties for the pot ($5.18) with two pair, Queens and Sevens
Skirts01 ties for the pot ($5.18) with two pair, Queens and Sevens

Summary
Total pot $11.10 | Rake $0.74
Board:
Seat 1: Anty81 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: Hero (big blind) showed and won ($5.18) with two pair, Queens and Sevens
Seat 3: cheep06 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Skirts01 showed and won ($5.18) with two pair, Queens and Sevens
Seat 5: Jurado01 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: mrbeast87 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: sisaoknight didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: xVoZarx didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: Manijak75 (button) folded before the Flop

On March 20 2010 03:12 woodbrave1 wrote: Show nested quote + On March 19 2010 18:02 Into Infinity wrote: without reading your explanation horrible because no one cares about your image at your stake, especially considering "40/0 fish" this is bullshit, 40/0 people are aware on whos raising them 30+% of the time they limp and adjust by check raising bluffing flops and shit.

I disagree. Very strongly to be honest, NL10-NL50 fish adjust with very low frequency and repeat the same line most of the time depending on their hand strenght. Even if you pound on the a lot.

And you can of course bluff fish at any limit, if you have reads and the board is good.

But if you have a look at this board, there are very few hands that call flop and fold turn. His range will have many many combos of aces as you can't expect a fold of any of them preflop, then flush draws and some low gutshots which are not folding either imo.

And for this betsize, I also can see an 8 rarely folding

On March 20 2010 04:50 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Show nested quote + On March 20 2010 03:12 woodbrave1 wrote:   On March 19 2010 18:02 Into Infinity wrote: without reading your explanation horrible because no one cares about your image at your stake, especially considering "40/0 fish" this is bullshit, 40/0 people are aware on whos raising them 30+% of the time they limp and adjust by check raising bluffing flops and shit. I disagree. Very strongly to be honest, NL10-NL50 fish adjust with very low frequency and repeat the same line most of the time depending on their hand strenght. Even if you pound on the a lot. And you can of course bluff fish at any limit, if you have reads and the board is good. But if you have a look at this board, there are very few hands that call flop and fold turn. His range will have many many combos of aces as you can't expect a fold of any of them preflop, then flush draws and some low gutshots which are not folding either imo. And for this betsize, I also can see an 8 rarely folding

Pretty sure that was a level.

Vivi - Did not think 2 streets in advance. Managing the pot is something I am working on.
Night - Agreed. Dont bluff fish is a good strategy.
Lemon - Bluff is meant for the river, as mentioned to other ppl.

woo boy he's a passive station and you gonna give a fish like that money?

bad idea imo.

If he is a 40 % fish bomb turn for minimum of 2 bucks or check

you can't do anything once the flop is called.

Lets say they have a range of any pair, any draw once they call the flop. They are going to call turn with any flush draw, and maybe a gutter, any ace and any straight, and maybe low pairs. I think on turn like half of their pairs are an ace because 40vpip means they would be playing A2-AK. so that's alot of aces in their range. on the river they are calling with any ace, straight and maybe a pair. They arn't calling with flush draws and maybe midpairs, and that's a small part of their range.

It's alot easier to make profit when you play cards that still beat a significant portion of their range at the river. such as AT

Also, almost every loose passive fish adjusts to aggressive regulars by calling down lighter and lighter, that is if they adjust at all.