In response to the comments in my latest blog:

as opposed to 9-to-5 office grinder, whos only social contact comes with unpleasantness from his co-workers and superiors, and seeing his friends on a weekend.
Your life is easy, its just that life in general is hard.

And the only reason you have the ability to say stuff like "i quit poker" is because you're so well off.
No other person can afford to quit a 5k job just like that.

I know my life is easy at this moment but the fact that it's easy does not make me happy(ier).

I don't really know what I want to do in life yet. I've been thinking about getting a part-time job actually to see what it's like and to involve myself in the community more. It helps to connect with your friends in a way they recognize. Poker is something so totally different that I just feel weird and not regular and I actually want to be more regular.

A wise man once said: 'to be happy in life you gotta have it tough sometimes'

With poker you never really have it tough but because of that you can't really be happy either. And I truly believe that right now.

when you start making less in a month than you throw around in a single session of poker and hate your life because you have to wake up at 6am every day and work I think you'll change your mind.

GL in whatever you end up doing, Twisted. We all know you aren't going to quit cold turkey for good, but that's fine.

I respect you a lot as a person because of your last two blog posts, and I sincerely hope that you find that fulfillment that you are looking for.

agree with blog entirely, or at least, in theory, since i haven't really made any money yet. got to try to balance your life and its really easy not to :S

there are so many alternatives to working for $10/hr for social contact. who cares if you're a nerd you're not gonna fit in with "cool" coworkers anyway if its really that bad ur just gonna sit in your cubicle and listen to some fat faggot old man berate you when you could buy everything he owns out from under him just for the hell of it.

like it or not your mind is already way too warped to fit in with society in a normal way, at least without you ever hitting rock bottom anyway. Move in with your friends who are more like you and play poker imo

I understand where youre coming from and i wish you luck in recovering from your depression.
You should follow ur own advice and play some poker to supplement your quest for whatever it is that would make you feel fullfilled.
Also I would advise you to get involved in charitable work, that would get you connected to community, align with ur financial situation and definitely make you feel better about yourself.

in a way "the man" is owning your soul right now for tricking you into thinking that leading a normal life will bring you happiness

gl w/ whatever u end up finding that u enjoy.

I like how you call yourself a random 5-10 grinder. There's probably only a few thousand people in the world that can beat 5-10. It's pretty impressive dude, don't denigrate yourself.

It's not depression and it's not 'leading a normal life', it's about what you truly want in life and what you enjoy. Working at a cafeteria for 8$ an hour a few years ago was way more fun for me than playing poker.

I think I'm just older than most of you (24) and most of you simply don't realize this. I'm not a nerd in any way btw (as far as social akwardness goes, I'm no floofy), I can interact totally fine with people. Anyone that has met me on this website can attest to that.

Like I said I'm not quitting poker entirely, just at this point I really need to focus on other stuff. Besides, playing poker is not my only income out of the poker community. I make videos and have my own website where I earn money from. I'm pretty much set for the future and I don't HAVE to grind a 5 to 9 job 40 hours a week to earn money. I just need to actively find what I want in life and poker is not helping with that. Like I said it's just an excuse to prolong thinking about what you truly wish for in life. Poker is just a short-term plan. I don't see anyone with my experience that can honestly say they want to play poker for the next 10 years.

On April 19 2009 17:15 sniderstyle wrote: I like how you call yourself a random 5-10 grinder. There's probably only a few thousand people in the world that can beat 5-10. It's pretty impressive dude, don't denigrate yourself.

That's my point. It's pretty impressive *here* but not in the real world.

Besides I always have the option to come back for poker short-term and make some quick easy cash.

I think assuming someone who does not see what you mean isn't mature enough is very immature in itself.

I find myself agreeing with you on a lot of points. People don't respect your success in poker because they don't know what they are talking about. That is very unfortunate but the people who _do_ know what they are talking about are the ones you should care about when it comes to achievements. It would be nice if RL friends respect your achievements but I wouldn't measure true success and respect through the opinions of people who are uneducated on the matter.

Life is a search for recognition. The fact that your closest friends will have a really hard time being able to recognize what it is you do can be a tough deal. I'm not sure what the solution is for this but if I had let that influence my choices I wouldn't have played SC/poker and TL/LP would not have existed. I don't think that should be your standard because even though I don't enjoy poker I do enjoy the others for which the same argument goes. I think you just got to find your own way and try and find recognition for what you do from the people you expect to know most about it. They don't necessarily need to be your closest friends.. that is the downfall of choosing an extraordinary profession. I think your whole issue with recognition and understanding is one of the main reasons that so many people are drawn to the live scene. Because it is amongst poker players where you will find understanding for what you do.

/rant

As for myself I don't enjoy poker but I know I will enjoy not depending on money many years from now. I don't want to be worried about my mortgage when I'm 60.

You are talking about going down a path in life that will leave you with nothing but regrets. You'll get to be my age, and have a fat old lady and a couple of kids, a job that hasn't been rewarding in 15 years, and you will regret you walked away from a game that you not only made baller money at, but gave you a rush you can't find anywhere else. Perspective, son, that is all you need. Women come and go and if you let them, they will destroy you on the inside, and there aint one of them worth it in the end. Balance, dude. The money isn't worth a thing if you don't go outside and enjoy it. There is no reason to be shy, raise your head high. Don't give up the life, just modify it to maximize it's potential. Get a grip.

I'd trade my problems for yours in a New York minute

fwiw twisted i agree a lot with the stuff ur talking about here and i think we're on the same page

On April 19 2009 17:19 Nazgul wrote: I think assuming someone who does not see what you mean isn't mature enough is very immature in itself. I find myself agreeing with you on a lot of points. People don't respect your success in poker because they don't know what they are talking about. That is very unfortunate but the people who _do_ know what they are talking about are the ones you should care about when it comes to achievements. It would be nice if RL friends respect your achievements but I wouldn't measure true success and respect through the opinions of people who are uneducated on the matter. Life is a search for recognition. The fact that your closest friends will have a really hard time being able to recognize what it is you do can be a tough deal. I'm not sure what the solution is for this but if I had let that influence my choices I wouldn't have played SC/poker and TL/LP would not have existed. I think you just got to find your own way and try and find recognition for what you do from the people you expect to know most about it. They don't necessarily need to be your closest friends.. that is the downfall of choosing an extraordinary profession. I think your whole issue with recognition and understanding is one of the main reasons that so many people are drawn to the live scene. Because it is amongst poker players where you will find understanding for what you do. /rant

It's not just recognition. I don't enjoy playing poker. I want to do something I actually care about. I don't care about playing poker and making a lot of money right now.

On April 19 2009 17:19 Nazgul wrote: As for myself I don't enjoy poker but I know I will enjoy not depending on money many years from now. I don't want to be worried about my mortgage when I'm 60.

You earned a lot of money through liquidpoker but that's not actually playing poker. Because of poker and stacraft you have been able to create liquidpoker and have a stable income. That's totally different to actually playing the game itself with its huge ups and downs. I'm not saying I will totally devoid myself out of the poker scene I'm just saying I want to stop devoting so much time to actually playing.

a man must search his whole life for purpose

when he has fulfilled and completed a worthwhile mission, he may rest and enjoy the fruits of his labor. Then he must find another mission to complete, living his life with utmost purpose. as he completes each mission with passion and momentum, he gets closer and closer to his true inner self. Like peeling layers off an onion, the man will eventually find his ultimate goal and work to fulfill that as well.

I only play 20k-30k hands a month and still feel like poker is a great drain on life, when doing what it takes to keep the skills polished. I'm at school full time with little social life, work out consistently, and recently started volunteering at a hospital. The perspective change that comes with volunteering is invaluable in terms of finding out what the next step is.

I personally think your decision to quit poker for the time being is a great one, because you've taken what you wanted from this game and are able to walk away satisfied. Don't look at your success in regret of "what could have been" because it truly IS better that slaving away for money that barely beats inflation. You've got all that you need with you, gl.

try volunteering for charities/groups. you can be a positive force in society and meet new ppl

Im pretty sure what your looking for is someone to share all this with. I think if you dont have a serious girlfriend yet that would probably solve a lot of your emptiness.

Im curious about what sort of career you envision you will enjoy? You dont think everybody out there would like to have something that gives them pleasure doing? Its just so rare to find a work that gives you passion and satisfaction in which you can actualy earn a living.
I dont see why you cant try something else, poker is always here incase you change your mind and I think if you do end up in a "normal" job you will appriciate it much more afterwards.
On the topic of social life I agree with you, poker is very demanding in this aspect and I personally suffered a lot after discovering this game, but like nazgul said most of us just want to secure a future or at least make the foundation and this is one of the easyiest/fastest/more comfortable ways.
I dont rly know whats my point, just washing my head, gl man

Be a nice man like Jesus and give me money ( i'm a poor micro player )
J/K

Nah seriously you need to find a real passion in life. You have money so you can try lot of things. You are actually really lucky compared to the average broke student.

What do you like in life ?

For example:
You like Eco / business ? ---> get a good degree and you will probably find an interesting job.

So my advice is to study hard something you like and to get a job. You will have a lot of recognition from your parents or the average people and you will get some social interaction ( it will probably be disappointing though because most of the job interactions are very limited ).

On April 19 2009 17:31 vegable wrote: a man must search his whole life for purpose when he has fulfilled and completed a worthwhile mission, he may rest and enjoy the fruits of his labor. Then he must find another mission to complete, living his life with utmost purpose. as he completes each mission with passion and momentum, he gets closer and closer to his true inner self. Like peeling layers off an onion, the man will eventually find his ultimate goal and work to fulfill that as well.

This is so how I feel about it, thanks for posting this.

It's not just recognition. I don't enjoy playing poker. I want to do something I actually care about. I don't care about playing poker and making a lot of money right now. You earned a lot of money through liquidpoker but that's not actually playing poker. Because of poker and stacraft you have been able to create liquidpoker and have a stable income. That's totally different to actually playing the game itself with its huge ups and downs. I'm not saying I will totally devoid myself out of the poker scene I'm just saying I want to stop devoting so much time to actually playing.

I didn't mean to imply recognition was your only problem. It was simply the thing I thought I had something useful to say about because I agree with most other things you say.

I'm not sure I would be happy if I did only poker either. I'm quite sure I wouldn't because I have had a strong dislike for poker for some time now. Poker is draining and winning is the norm so it doesn't feel special but losing makes you feel like crap. It's messed up. Also adds little to nothing to society.

You're obviously right about quitting poker because you don't enjoy it and it doesn't make sense to do something you don't enjoy. Does it?

I'd be very surprised if the majority of the average human life was spent in a state of enjoyment or fulfillment. In fact I would be very surprised if there were any way to be constantly fulfilled given what we know about human biology and evolution. A happy, complacent ape, satisfied with his achievements, is not going to be around while other apes with similar capacities are motivated to constantly improve and adapt.

So, I don't think that pleasure / enjoyment / synonyms are really a sensible aim in life, at least not in the conventional sense. I think you've alluded to being interested in something more like continued "growth" as a person, and that seems more appropriate. If you've reached the ceiling of what poker has to offer you, and you don't need the income that it provides, then you can definitely make a good decision by choosing different ways to spend your time. The only caveat is that while it may not be true that money alone is sufficient for happiness, and that you can buy meaningful relationships or girls or whatever the same way you can buy a house, the opposite case may still be true. Many poor people may be generally unhappy because they're poor. So I wouldn't brush off monetary stability and success too lightly - even if it isn't enough, it may still be a lot.

On April 19 2009 17:46 Nazgul wrote: Show nested quote + It's not just recognition. I don't enjoy playing poker. I want to do something I actually care about. I don't care about playing poker and making a lot of money right now. You earned a lot of money through liquidpoker but that's not actually playing poker. Because of poker and stacraft you have been able to create liquidpoker and have a stable income. That's totally different to actually playing the game itself with its huge ups and downs. I'm not saying I will totally devoid myself out of the poker scene I'm just saying I want to stop devoting so much time to actually playing. I didn't mean to imply recognition was your only problem. It was simply the thing I thought I had something useful to say about because I agree with most other things you say. I'm not sure I would be happy if I did only poker either. I'm quite sure I wouldn't because I have had a strong dislike for poker for some time now. Poker is draining and winning is the norm so it doesn't feel special but losing makes you feel like crap. It's messed up. Also adds little to nothing to society.

hehe yeah so we kinda feel the same way.

yo U should try WoW

Look...u play poker and make x k$ per month. You have cash to rent flat, buy clothes, car and spend a lot for fun. Now look at my life...I'm working 8 hours per day and get 500$/monthly...after work I'm learning cuz I'm studying also, then I'm playing 1-2 hours daily NL10 to make some additional $...It is so f***kin life.Every day I'm thinking how to earn additional cash and how to increase my bankroll to earn more money from poker. I'm spending 10-12 hours looking at monitor... So don't tell me (us) you don't care about money...I don't believe it...give me 1k$ to increase my bankroll...you won't give me cuz you care about money;p If you don't have to ask yourself "how can I get money for this and that" it means your life is good... Many ppl here wants to be as good as you in poker. Others don't understand it because they don't uderstand what is poker. If u say to your non-poker friends that u earning 20k$ playing poker they will look at you with a kind of weird look but if you say u earning 5k$ running own restaurant they will admire your...thats sick but thats true...If you don't enjoy poker find other job. I'm pretty sure that after 1 month of real work you will quit it and value how good and enjoyable poker playing is.
1. 98% ppl on this planet do not enjoy their life, especially work...
2. Find a girlfriend;p
3. realize that your life is good thanks to poker
4. do not stop playing poker
5. plan your day

Well i can understand that u feel like its time for something new.

I dont think that poker is so negative for your life.
I think u just search for something new.

I was a drummer in several bands from 15th to 19th age ( started drumming at 12)
Well i was pretty good and stuff and i played lots of gigs and got lots of respect from all kind of people
I really love drumming

but at some point i just decided it was time to quit my career as a drummer
( funny that moment was when i met a very special girl)

I play for fun from time to time but i dont play in any bands anymore + i dont practice .
being a semi professional musician just consumes sooo much time.
i did this for 4 1/2 years and at one point i simply couldnt do it anymore.
practice 15-20h drumming every week + recordings at the studios on weekends + paractice sessions with other band members + driving to all kinda different cities for concerts.

basically drumming was consuming close to all my free time + it was very very unhealthy way of life ( mass alcohol + mass smoking + partying all time)
I feelt like my body really got runined a ton during that time.

Till even today from time to time different people on the streets who knew me from concerts ask me about my drumming.
And when i telll them that i quit, they can hardly ever believe.
What a waste of talent ! How can u ever quit ? U were drumming like God ! ( ofc they exxagerate a bit ^^)

Well i love drums and i love playing drums
but at some point in my life i just decided i wont be a musician anymore.

I just needed something different in my life
Thats when i started MMA

so maybe your situation is a bit similar
and after years of poker u just need someting new


GL

On a serious note, I agree with twisted in that winning in poker is somewhat of a drug. You take too much of it and too often and you start to lose sight of what happiness is. You start feeling less happy about winning but more unhappy about losing because your psyche always expects you to win. Eventually you're in a place where winning is no longer enjoyable but losing is simply devastating. Like getting addicted to a drug, being high becomes the everyday norm and when you're not getting that high your body and mind just feel like shit.

On April 19 2009 16:53 Twisted wrote: People saying stuff like 'how easy you have it and just spend the money on girls and partying' or 'poor you! all your success and money, it must be so difficult living a free life where you can change your plans in the blink of an eye because you don't have to answer to the man like everybody else does.' apparently don't know how reality works or just haven't experienced yet what it means to be successful in poker. I don't see how poker success is anywhere related to true success. What have I achieved? I am good at a game no-one in my direct life cares about. People are like 'oh cool you made a lot of money in poker' but they honestly don't care and they don't know what poker is/flatout don't understand it. What people care about is actually having achieved something in life like finishing an education and be good at a job people actually care about.

Why is it so important what others think about it? And do you think when you are an accountant/manager etc, people are going to care?

I think you overromanticize having a "normal" job and working for society. To be begin, the majority of people with "normal" jobs also do dislike their job at moments and don't think their jobs are fullfillings. Secondly, I think it is shortsighted that if you have a "normal" job in our mass consumption society you are doing something for society.

I am even older than you. I have a Masters degree, I worked a short time as a business analyst with top managers of a multinational and I can say that isn't also always exciting or fun. Due to the credit crunch I was fired in my probe period and now I am giving poker a try and I know the feeling that it can be tough, but I try to challenge myself with other things like learning a new language or writing articles and try to make time for family and friends. It is time management, but doable

Normal jobs have co-workers who care what you are doing. And not every normal job adds to society but poker adds less than them all.

When I was getting started like you I felt the exact same and poker was nothing but awesome, but eventually working alone all day can wear on you.

On April 19 2009 19:18 Nazgul wrote: Normal jobs have co-workers who care what you are doing. And not every normal job adds to society but poker adds less than them all. When I was getting started like you I felt the exact same and poker was nothing but awesome, but eventually working alone all day can wear on you.

Ok you have co workers who care. Agree.
Does a pro football/soccer player contribute to society? Does someone who works for Jamba (the ringtones), or in a weapon factory or is designing hummers contribute to society?
The way I see it is that jobs in this economic system aren't created to "help" society, but to earn money. There are noble people who really pursue helping society in their jobs or charitable work and I deeply respect them, but the majority of jobs are just a part of the mass consumption capatalistic society which we live in (not criticizing, just how I see it). And if you are able to earn your money with poker I consider having the same moral value as being an accountant/bank co-worker and many other jobs.

good luck erwin, from my own experience i know that only living for playin poker is rly sad.
go for your goals!

Meh, imo having friends and playing poker aren't mutually exclusive. If anything, you should have more time to be social when you play poker because you aren't stuck for 8-10 hours at work plus 1-2 hours commute per day. If you aren't making friends, don't dump that on poker. It's likely more to do with your personality than what you do. If you don't want to play poker any more that's fine, but don't think that all your social problems will magically disappear if you suddenly go to school to finish your studies. Upon leaving school you are likely to be a random grad with basically no marketable skills setting to work 8-10 hours a day and spending 1-2 hours commuting, getting paid $15-$25 an hour. No time to do anything but work or sleep during the week. Using weekends just to get rested up for the next work week. Saving money for your 2 weeks vacation a year. Seeing all the people around you spending most of their time with their gf/wife/kid at home. While you come home to an empty house because stopping to play poker did not magically turn into a chick magnet (thought that 9 to 5 job is pretty darn sexy).

Have fun.

Hey Twisted.



I'm sure you'll find a path you enjoy. If you don't enjoy what you do everyday and you have the luxury to change directions than you must do so.



However, don't just change direction for the sake of changing direction. Don't follow what other people think is "successful" just to please them.


Finishing a college degree isn't "success". Having a job isn't "success".


Being happy every single day of your life regardless of what you do is success.

get a job with no pay but great social interaction . grind/brag while at the office. makes sense imo.

On April 19 2009 20:13 Tien wrote: Finishing a college degree isn't "success". Having a job isn't "success". Being happy every single day of your life regardless of what you do is success.

Q FOR THE MOTHAFUKIN T

I think I know whats going on here with the higher stakes players getting bored. While they may THINK to themselves that "oh I'm gonna travel the world, meet new people, take classes in things that interest me, do whatever I want!", without the social aspect none of these things come to fruition. A lot of what we do and what we accomplish in our lives is a product of who we know and who we associate with. We go to school together, we go to college together, we work together. People come and go, but you still kind of find yourself going from one thing to the next as a result of the people who influence you. But being self-employed and self-sufficient deprives you of this. Even if you have a bunch of friends, you're not exactly living with them anymore.

I strive to become a high stakes player one day, it is my dream so to speak. The dream aspect comes purely from the financial freedom. But what would I do with this freedom? Especially after everything I just said above? Well it just so happens that I live with my girlfriend whom I have been dating for the last 2 years. This makes for a very powerful acquaintance. This isnt like some buddy of mine who I would have to beg to go to Europe with me, even after I offer to pay his travel expenses. This is my future wife, my life partner. As a result we can do everything together. Thus, for someone like me, the happiness as a result from financial freedom is a reality, not a myth. I WILL actually do things with my money, I WILL actually travel to foreign destinations, I WILL actually have somebody to buy nice Christmas gifts for. And of course it goes well beyond that, such as home ownership, our children's future (when we have them), etc etc. It's not like I just fantasize about balling out of control then realize I'll really be all alone, or at best, meeting up with fellow poker players and just going to clubs, something I can already do any day of the week.

Personally, I feel unless your best friend is a high stakes players who happens to enjoy traveling with you, or you have a girlfriend/wife who will follow you, there isnt a whole lot you can do with your success in poker. It's like winning the lottery, "now what?". So to all those who find themselves lost in the success of this game, try to find somebody to share it with. That is the only reason I do it.

There is a fascinating epilogue to this whole story: I actually had to go in to work today, on a Sunday, at 6pm to get some afterhours work finished that I cant do during normal business hours. While the idea of working on a Sunday sounds pretty shitty, I rather enjoyed it, b/c it was something I needed to get done, and I felt like I had really accomplished something 2 hours later when I finished. This is something I dont think I will ever get from playing poker. There is a lot to be said about that.

gl with whatever you do.

I was waaay more happy with my life when I was ages 15-18 and did sports and swimming and hung around people all day, financial success doesn't equal satisfaction in personal achievement once a certain point is reached. I've made like 200k from this game in the 3 years i have played it and i couldn't give a fuck, i think i would be happier without it. My plan is to play poker hardcore for a year and then get out.

I think poker is a get in and get out business. All those people who stay in too long are missing out on doing other things that would make them happier. My plan is to be obsessed and go crazy for a period of time until I feel that I have reached the point where I am personally satisfied with the money and level of skill I have achieved. I plan on this being about 30 hours a week for a year to a year and a half and than I am probably done for good.

rofl u guys shouldnt blame poker for having a mediocre social life or w/e, obviously a nerd is gonna get "nerder" if he plays poker for a living, but when u do have friends family and girlfriends printing bills at home aint ganna make u feel sad or unaccomplished

I'm not saying that I'm totally stepping out of poker but I'm saying I want to quit playing for now and see what else I can find. It's not like I'm gonna work 40 hours a week straight away, I can do fine with a part-time job at first and try to balance my life that way.

phexac I'm not a social wreck lol. And yeah Tien I know that, for now I need to do this though because I believe doing that will make me happy.

Gee I wish I had your problem.

Unfortunately I've been in the work force since I was 12 - working shitty thankless back-breaking 9-5 type jobs with nothing to show for it.

Working a regular job is like playing politics. People pretend they are your friend when they aren't. They say they will do things but they don't. Ass kissing and befriending people you wouldn't normally want to be associated with is usually the only way to get ahead in the corporate world. If you want to trade your life for the life of a sucker go ahead. Working a regular job will improve your social life, but it's not the kind of social life that will bring you the happiness that you are looking for.

Go join some sports, or other activities of interest to meet people and make solid meaningful friendships.

You can fix all of your problems without leaving Poker.

The 9-5 make-ends-meet lifestyle is what drove me to Poker. Think of all the things that you can do that other people can't..

If I were you I would continue to milk Poker until you can't possibly play another hand.

If you have a lot of money take some time off from poker for 3 or so months. Go travel by yourself. Crash at some hostels (great way to meet people), make some friends have a good time - come back to the tables refreshed and ready to grind the good life.

Why is everyone saying stuff about how shitty a 9 to 5 job is and how good I have it? I know I have it good and I'm not gonna leave poker completely and I'm sure as hell not gonna work a 9 to 5 job that I find boring and be a workslave etc. My plan is to finish my education and see what I want in life, not find any random job that I don't *really* want to do only to experience a real job.. I have a bunch of money right now so I won't *have* to work for quite some time.

I have worked jobs, one for 5 years which I enjoyed a lot thanks to great friends I made there. I enjoyed that a lot more than playing poker.

On April 20 2009 07:36 Twisted wrote: Why is everyone saying stuff about how shitty a 9 to 5 job is and how good I have it? I know I have it good and I'm not gonna leave poker completely and I'm sure as hell not gonna work a 9 to 5 job that I find boring and be a workslave etc. My plan is to finish my education and see what I want in life, not find any random job that I don't *really* want to do only to experience a real job.. I have a bunch of money right now so I won't *have* to work for quite some time. I have worked jobs, one for 5 years which I enjoyed a lot thanks to great friends I made there. I enjoyed that a lot more than playing poker.

When ppl hear about some guy making hundreds of K ( or whatever you make ) quit Poker and do something useful, their first thought is that you want to become a hotel receptionist.

He's not exchanging YOUR lifestyle with his, his just moving on with his.

Good luck Twisted.

The people that are very successful at this game usually share/are successful partly because of these traits:

- introversion

Introversion is "the state of or tendency toward being wholly or predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life".Introverts tend to be more reserved and less assertive in social situations. They often take pleasure in solitary activities such as reading, writing, drawing, and using computers. The archetypal artist, writer, sculptor, composer, and inventor are all highly introverted. An introvert is likely to enjoy time spent alone and find less reward in time spent with large groups of people, though they tend to enjoy interactions with close friends. They prefer to concentrate on a single activity at a time and like to observe situations before they participate.Introverts are easily overwhelmed by too much stimulation from social gatherings and engagement. They are more analytical before speaking.Introversion is not the same as shyness. Introverts choose solitary over social activities by preference, whereas shy people avoid social encounters out of fear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraversion_and_introversion

To become good at poker you naturally have to spend a LOT of time alone so obviously you will find a lot of introverts among poker players.

- very difficult to satisfy
Part of the reason some players get stuck at a specific level is because they get complacent. The great ones are almost never satisfied. It's a gift and a curse at the same time. A gift, because you will always keep improving. A curse, because you're never going to be truly happy with your results.


As for benifiting society - I agree that poker adds little or nothing. I always fantasized about being an artist - a musician or an actor. I thought it would be cool. But what do they give to a society? It's just entertainment. You might change people's thoughts on some subjects, but let's not get carried away.

You might have unrealistic expectations. Who TRULY benifits our society anyway? Who has a huge impact on other people's life? I don't think you could come up with that many professions. Scientists - their discoveries change our world. Doctors - they save lives. But few people are revolutionary scientists or doctors and most jobs just add a tiny bit - and that's ok.

I would guess most people are not truly happy with their jobs. But to many it is what is - a job. A means to gain financial freedom. If people around the world would start questioning their jobs using criteria like value to society, satisfaction or respect received the unemployment rate would sky rocket. But they can set their work and life goals/private life apart. Ultimately it would be nice to have those things, but for a lot of people it's just a way to provide for their family. And that alone carries enough meaning.

On April 20 2009 05:12 Twisted wrote: I'm not saying that I'm totally stepping out of poker but I'm saying I want to quit playing for now and see what else I can find. It's not like I'm gonna work 40 hours a week straight away, I can do fine with a part-time job at first and try to balance my life that way. phexac I'm not a social wreck lol. And yeah Tien I know that, for now I need to do this though because I believe doing that will make me happy.

I understand. I came to the same conclusion as you did about 2 1/2 years ago and bailed out completely on poker.


I kinda burnt out too, even though I didn't make nearly as much money worth making from the game.


My advice is to do exactly what you are planning on doing. However don't quit poker 100% YET because it's important to always have income coming in.


Good luck bro. You're a smart guy, I'm sure you'll find out what you want to do.

Hey erwin,

I hope you find your balance, hope to see you around!
From bw to poker has been a long ride, i enjoyed a lot with you (mostly bw time) !

Good luck with your life sir, you deserve a good life.

Ron!

Great write up!

a lot of people I know (including myself but to a slightly smaller extent) are going through this at the moment. I think tomson brought up an excellent point on how hard it is to satisfy a lot highstakes poker players, the satisfaction i see many people feeling is very shortlived usually, winning 100k "should" make you satisfied for a year not a week.

my advice is that the answer will most likely not come from within, you have got to be out trying new things, talk to people and listen to their ideas, get a small volunteer gig and see if giving satisfies you.

oops that was Roman btw, im in Amsterdam for the next weekish at least, is anyone around?

Good luck, I honestly think this is a great move. fk elaborating

Sunny days wouldn't be special if it wasn't for rain.

goodluck

you dont need to explain yourself to anyone man.

On April 20 2009 21:40 Shenny wrote: you dont need to explain yourself to anyone man.

he wants feedback obv

I really don't know what to think of all this, I don't see how you can feel so bad about poker, I mean I guess I never had a job like you had for 5 years that I liked..... every job I had sucked pretty badly.....

I make good money from poker, I'm moving in my new house with my girlfriend (been with her for 2 yrs) and I plan to marry her, have children and so on, poker is basically a shortcut to financial freedom.... I guess I'm kind of also looking for recognition, or fame.... just like I was when playing broodwar....

anyways, can't you just set goals, goals for your life while you keep playing poker a few hours every day ?

I don't know if I'm special or different but I still like poker, and I never feel devastated after a losing day and I keep setting new goals and try to achieve better results... just be optimistic o_O!

Very interesting read! Especially considering we both gamed a lot, we both spent a lot of time on TL, but even moreso 'cause we took different routes at a given point. What is your educational status like now btw?

I think this is the downside of gaming in general. I There will be a point for most people where they think: What have I done? And has it given me enough satisfaction? Money truly does not make you happy, though it does aid in being more care free. But one will always want more. And more.

I had a choice along the way. After I quit High School at the age of 16, I played a load of games. I know I'm somewhat talented for such things, but I chose to not let it get out of hand at a turning point. For me, I believe that sociability and doing something productive for society are more important aspects of life. Surely those aspects are managable alongside good poker earnings; they should not exclude each other. Seems you're going to do that more now. Good luck with that. As for me, now I'm 24, still studying Psychology at the Erasmus University. I work a crappy job, yet enjoy it because of my coworkers. Life is good and I'm happy that I did not pursue anything online.

Good luck and I'll be reading,

Vincent

This was a really interesting read especially since it's something I've struggled with a lot. I fucking hate poker 95% of the time as people around me can attest to. But I'm also one of the few who's transitioned multiple times between full time corporate jobs and full time (well, I'm like the laziest grinder in the world...but still) poker so I feel I can say that there's a good chance that you'll look on your original post as at least slightly misguided later on. A sense of emptiness, dealing with bullshit, and etc isn't lost out in the 'real world' either. It's what you make of it.

I really despise the actual game of poker sometimes and oftentimes, the people that are immersed in it (pretty sure I'm one of the only ones who actually got into anything even remotely resembling a fight last summer at WSOP). Honestly, there's nothing more pathetic to me than a shit talking poker player engaging in a dick wagging contest over who may or may not have played a fucking card game better than another. I also hate the competitive aspect of poker that sometimes, you can do everything right and still fail really hard in the short term. Everything I've competed in before...i.e. sports like basketball...video games like bw...if you try your hardest, you can maximize your supposed return near instantly whereas in poker, it doesn't work out that way a lot of times which is an obvious fact but one that I'll always find really frustrating. But everything has a price and for the times that I chose poker over a more regular life, it's all because of that freedom that comes with it that we take for granted. For me, dealing with what I felt were the shitty aspects of poker were oftentimes worth it just because of that single gift of freedom.

My point is that once you really quit and go out and do whatever it is you're going to do, I think you're going to have at least a 90 degree change in how you view things. Maybe you'll be one of the few who really does what they're meant to do in life, enjoy it, and reap the benefits. But the reality is that most of the normal 'careers' out there beyond niche ones won't really give you this sense of magical self-fulfillment. There's a reason why most normal people hate what they do. It also really sucks meeting shitty, fake people out in the working world and being in a system where you can't call them out on it as much as you want to. However, I totally understand the entire post and where it comes from. Because even all the money and freedom won't do everything for you. The best times of my life all had a correlation of doing something new, meeting new people, and going out. Like college, my one job where I made a lot of close friends that I still hang out with today, moving to San Diego for the first time...etc. Nothing to do with money/poker. But then poker gave me lots of other great things too. Freedom for a long time in many ways...time, travel, financially. It's just a matter of balancing things imo, and I think skewing it so hard one way or the other (you one way now...die-hard poker enthusiasts the other) is always going to be a little misguided.

On April 21 2009 01:12 Fayth wrote: I really don't know what to think of all this, I don't see how you can feel so bad about poker, I mean I guess I never had a job like you had for 5 years that I liked..... every job I had sucked pretty badly..... I make good money from poker, I'm moving in my new house with my girlfriend (been with her for 2 yrs) and I plan to marry her, have children and so on, poker is basically a shortcut to financial freedom.... I guess I'm kind of also looking for recognition, or fame.... just like I was when playing broodwar.... anyways, can't you just set goals, goals for your life while you keep playing poker a few hours every day ? I don't know if I'm special or different but I still like poker, and I never feel devastated after a losing day and I keep setting new goals and try to achieve better results... just be optimistic o_O!

I admire you, seriously.

Being alone all day will make you feel empty eventually. You however have a precious thing by being able to make plenty of money to support yourself and potentially loved ones with just a couple hours a day. Don't give that up, just find a better balance in your life and you'll be fine.

Sorry i just stopped to read ur blog @ page 3 cauz i got sick of ppl saying the same sh.t when they don't know what they're talking about (with some exceptions) but believe me i suggest this :

On April 19 2009 17:35 blackjacki2 wrote: try volunteering for charities/groups. you can be a positive force in society and meet new ppl

This is like a part time job, except that you can do it as your own and see how far you can help the others. Only depends of your bankroll, cauz we gotta admit, nothing is free.
But if you can help others by being in associations, it'd not only make the others happy but also make you feel like what you've done is worth the life.
I don't really know you, but from the experience i've seen throughout your tl.net / lp.net career, i can't think that you'll bad in the future. I really think you have what it takes to succeed and when you do something you sometimes stick to it untill you can do it no more.
I'm sorry if there was a 4th page worth reading, but i really wanted to share my thoughts about it. Because right now, it's somewhat how i feel minus the poker (which i don't play anymore)