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Stroggoz   New Zealand. Feb 12 2017 16:55. Posts 5290



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One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beingsLast edit: 15/10/2017 02:37

TalentedTom    Canada. Feb 12 2017 18:41. Posts 20070

Great post, I hope things work out for you.

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us and as we let our own lights shine we unconsciously give other people permision to do the same 

def_jammer   Germany. Feb 12 2017 20:34. Posts 1227

How did you get chomsky to read your essay?


Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Feb 12 2017 21:49. Posts 9634

wow getting Chomsky to read your essay is pretty sick

my international relations professor claimed Chomsky used to be one of the guys to go to for advice regarding any topic before, but he s supposedly inadequate now, I still can't explain to myself why he thought this way, when Chomsky is as objective as always

nice blog post, you've diversified quite well between maths with philosophy extending to politics... I've come to the conclusion that those paradigms sound so unbelievable that its almost impossible to explain them to normal people that have no interest in politics, they just dont give a fuck, doesn't corellate with intelligence either, thats something quite sad

 Last edit: 12/02/2017 21:53

hiems   United States. Feb 13 2017 00:07. Posts 2979

You should tell girls when you're drinking that Chomsky liked ur essay.

I beat Loco!!! [img]https://i.imgur.com/wkwWj2d.png[/img]Last edit: 13/02/2017 01:01

Baalim   Mexico. Feb 13 2017 04:10. Posts 34246

So basically you spent the last 3 years of your life adhering to a leftist ideology, what a waste of time.

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online 

jeremy5408   United States. Feb 13 2017 04:16. Posts 122


  On February 12 2017 20:49 Spitfiree wrote:
wow getting Chomsky to read your essay is pretty sick

my international relations professor claimed Chomsky used to be one of the guys to go to for advice regarding any topic before, but he s supposedly inadequate now, I still can't explain to myself why he thought this way, when Chomsky is as objective as always

nice blog post, you've diversified quite well between maths with philosophy extending to politics... I've come to the conclusion that those paradigms sound so unbelievable that its almost impossible to explain them to normal people that have no interest in politics, they just dont give a fuck, doesn't corellate with intelligence either, thats something quite sad



people just don't have the background to have good conversations with. they aren't stupid. it's like trying to talk with non poker folk about poker. it's hard. there has to be some general concepts that are basically assumed.

anyway, stroggoz congrats. try and shape the world in a way you see fit.


Stroggoz   New Zealand. Feb 13 2017 07:15. Posts 5290


  On February 12 2017 19:34 def_jammer wrote:
How did you get chomsky to read your essay?



i sent it to his email address. i had a few questions to ask and wondering what he thought of my work. Anyone can do this, he replies to every relevant email.


  On February 12 2017 20:49 Spitfiree wrote:
wow getting Chomsky to read your essay is pretty sick

my international relations professor claimed Chomsky used to be one of the guys to go to for advice regarding any topic before, but he s supposedly inadequate now, I still can't explain to myself why he thought this way, when Chomsky is as objective as always

nice blog post, you've diversified quite well between maths with philosophy extending to politics... I've come to the conclusion that those paradigms sound so unbelievable that its almost impossible to explain them to normal people that have no interest in politics, they just dont give a fuck, doesn't corellate with intelligence either, thats something quite sad



I agree that chomsky is still right on almost everything he talks about, and his views havn't changed much in the last 75 years. although he doesn't seem to write as much over these last 2 years. my initial interest was his work and then i read a ton of people who had influenced his own work, and branched out from there. Then i went back and read the more mainstream stuff and kept comparing the two. I would read through his sources and go to the library and read the sources to check if he was actually correct on anything he said.

Here is a list of strong influences from each profession:

Journalism:
John Pilger
Andre Vltchek
Robert Fisk

Philosophy:
Chomsky
Jason Stanley
Bertrand Russell

politics/history
robert mcchesney
vijay prashad

Economics:
Ha joon Chang
Douglas Dowd
Joseph Stiglitz
yanis varoufakis
John Bellamy Foster
Adam Smith
Robin Hahnel

As for your conclusion, you just have to find ways of explaining politics in simple terminology. Everyone understands double think in george orwell, so they could understand the way it is used in our society. It is true that not every human being cares about the rest of the world, so you have to find those that do and would act on the information given them. I think history shows that this can be done and progress can be made. Many people do not act because of the external pressures that prevent them from doing it. I don't judge those people, everyone is compromised.

I do not think we are too far from the norm. It's just certain circumstances makes us seem that way. We all share basic human moral principles that mass murder is wrong, particularly for power/profit. But everyone is imprinted with a 'rubber stamp', as Edward Bernays called it in his book on propaganda, that rubber stamp distorts it in a way that makes it seem like there is some justice to it. It takes a lifetime of research to uncover all the lies and not many people in the world have the privilege to do it. So for people who have been lied to their whole life, which is basically everyone in the world, but have the same moral principles as us, our point of view can seem pretty far out there. i mean i know i used to be like it, and i changed my life in accordance to my moral principles once i saw past all the distortions. It's also wise to remember that in history, things which were once considered abnormal, are considered normal today. To take an easy example, opposing slavery, or patriarchal families in ancient Rome. So i actually think, even though i am hardcore leftwing, i am mainstream in a lot of ways.

I also observe that it is very easy for ordinary people. and those on the left to rationalize passivity. The common one is to say 'im not going to do anything because its completely hopeless, and no one else will care or listen." This is something i see people say to themselves over and over again. We have to ask ourselves, is their any empirical evidence to support the argument?. There may be some, but their is also counter-evidence which shows that humanity has worked together to overcome struggles in history.

One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beingsLast edit: 13/02/2017 09:01

Stroggoz   New Zealand. Feb 13 2017 07:29. Posts 5290


  On February 13 2017 03:10 Baalim wrote:
So basically you spent the last 3 years of your life adhering to a leftist ideology, what a waste of time.



well, i am an anarchist because i hate corporations/states and their goal of profit making which leads them to murder large amounts of people, either directly or indirectly, and i spent most of my time learning about various stuff. i read lots of books on economics and politics, Something that hadn't been presented to me in the so called 'educational' system. What keeps me going are various discoveries i make. Even if they are small ones. This work i do is really long term stuff, if no one wants to read it then yes it would have been a waste of time. But there are those that have. If i can make for example, 1% of the public aware of massacres in west papua and their responsibilities to that, that could bring it to an end slightly earlier. It may save many lives. I spent half my time on actual school work as well. getting a math degree was no joke for me as i'm not gifted-but find the subject interesting. That certainly wasn't a waste of time, it enriched my brain and i could use a math degree for many things.

One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beingsLast edit: 13/02/2017 08:56

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Feb 13 2017 11:21. Posts 9634


  On February 13 2017 03:16 jeremy5408 wrote:
Show nested quote +



people just don't have the background to have good conversations with. they aren't stupid. it's like trying to talk with non poker folk about poker. it's hard. there has to be some general concepts that are basically assumed.



Don't know if i expressed myself poorly, but saying that " it doesn't corellate with intelligence" means it doesn't matter whether or not they are dumb or intelligent, doesn't it ?


Btw Stroggoz can you share the essay ?

 Last edit: 13/02/2017 11:23

Stroggoz   New Zealand. Feb 13 2017 12:03. Posts 5290


  On February 13 2017 10:21 Spitfiree wrote:
Show nested quote +


Don't know if i expressed myself poorly, but saying that " it doesn't corellate with intelligence" means it doesn't matter whether or not they are dumb or intelligent, doesn't it ?


Btw Stroggoz can you share the essay ?



i have a website where i compiled all my essays, which i then distribute to other websites that are interested in publishing them. I don't want some of LP to know my identity, but i will PM it to you.

What kind of subjects are you doing in international relations? What are your particular interests? From what i gathered you seem to know a bit about the history of public relations, which is something i have read a bit on.

One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beingsLast edit: 13/02/2017 12:11

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Feb 13 2017 15:28. Posts 9634

It was a course in my bachelor studies.

And honestly, I am completely ignorant on the topic. I do know a lot of things regarding different topics from both academic, political and historic point of view, but that is still far from enough to form an adequate opinion about anything.

I'd say politics, philosophy, psychology and history are my main points of interest, but honestly I've probably read about 100 Fantasy books the past year and only 5-6 on any of those subject , so I've put all of those on hold. It's hard to keep yourself motivated and organized towards everything you want to know/do when there s tons of stuff, while all of those fields ( especially psychology ) develop extremely fast.

If you are interested in the topic thought just go through all the schools that matter in regard to International Relations , for example neoliberalism being the most maintstream one I guess, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism_(international_relations)

Its cool cause different branches of the movements have different approaches, like I think structural neoliberalism ( I might be waaaay off here, dont quite remember all of the branches ) bases arguments heavily on Game Theory,

 Last edit: 13/02/2017 15:28

Stroggoz   New Zealand. Feb 13 2017 16:03. Posts 5290

I've read a lot of textbooks on IR, and they typically give a short intro on every theory in the field, and i have a couple graduate students in IR i talk to about it every week, on and off and i talk to them about what they are studying to confirm if it is bs or not rofl. I have somewhat of an outsiders perspective since i never go to lectures as i've never enrolled in a politics class.

i'm trying to figure out all the things that chomsky has said which might have turned your professer away from him in the last 10 years. I think i know chomsky pretty well, he started criticizing realist international relations theory , perhaps that was it. ( the core principle of realist IR is that states try to maximize security. Something that actually really doesn't make sense once you think about it.)

It's a massive contrast from reading textbooks on pure mathematics and one on IR. if i read one on mathematics, every theorem has a proof to back it up. But in IR, you have people like samuel huntington who make up theories off the top of their head and it somehow makes it into the educational system, even when it can be refuted in about 5 seconds. I mean, the clash of civilisations, for example. Maybe you've heard of it. But he argued in the 1990's that there was going to be more conflict based on divisions between religions, cultures, ethnic groups after the collapse of the soviet union. But the US government has supported most of the big radical islamics at some point. Indonesian military, mujahideen. and now people are saying that because of ISIS there is a 'clash of civilisations', which is completely untrue. The US still supports saudi arabia and indonesia which are both islamic. So there is no war being fought for ideological reasons, it is the usual economic ones.

I know most academics in the IR field disagree with Samuel Huntington, but if he was in mathematics he wouldn't even have a job. His work would never be considered as more than an incoherent argument since there was no proof for it, and it wouldnt make it's way into the academic journal. It's like the difference between tourney and cash game players in poker.

I'm not a big fan of game theory being employed in social analysis. It can be useful and has some explanatory value, but the world is also very complex in politics, and very irrational. I know for example that the american government overthrow the government of a country simply because they didn't like what their president read. Their president told them he read the monthly review so after that john f kennedy decided to overthrow his government because he doesn't like communists. I forgot what country it was. French Guiana or something.



One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beingsLast edit: 13/02/2017 16:41

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Feb 13 2017 20:52. Posts 9634

The thing thats most annoying in IR is that academics "pledge allegiance" to a specific school and only try to defend arguments through that prism. It feels like flexibility is a no-no, which kills the purpose of a discussion. It feels like a modern day philosophy where you take 1 extreme the next guy takes the other extreme and you clash for a decade so a new school would spawn and repeat the process. The sense that we need to belong in a group really kills the speed of thought evolution


JohnnyBologna   United States. Feb 13 2017 22:14. Posts 1401

The truth can be overwhelming, which is why people cannot be burdened by it, the majority of the free world is poor/powerless. Just the though about all the corruption that goes on in this world is already exhausting.
If your gona put the weight of the world on your shoulders your in for a bumpy ride.

Would you say you have become more pessismistic as a person after involving yourself in the worlds' affairs?
Has it changed your lifestyle/view on people in general?




Just do whats right 

Stroggoz   New Zealand. Feb 14 2017 00:47. Posts 5290

^i am and always have been a pretty big optimist in people. i don't see any empirical evidence to change why i shouldn't be. Remember that you can find in history a lot of bad things people have done, but you can also find a lot of good things. Humans used to do a lot of worse things, and there wasn't any concept of moral progress until a few centuries ago. And most the evil in the world actually comes from hierarchical institutions imposing their maxims on people. people are forced to do or become evil through external constraints a large majority of the time. Even these people at the top of fossil fuel corporations that have basically known what the consequences of their actions are, they are forced by their institutions goal to maximize profit. if they didn't do that, someone would just replace them and do it themselves.

There is a famous quote by a marxian philosopher who i've never read, antonio gramsci 'pessimissm of the intellect, optimism of the will', which means we should look at the world as it is and try to change it.

It's changed my lifestyle significantly. It is important not to ruin your life over having a moral conscience. A lot of people who gain moral consciences do this and in the end it just means they can't do anything positive for anyone.

One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings 

traxamillion   United States. Feb 14 2017 07:23. Posts 10468

You seem pretty enlightened bro, right on. Agree with most of what I read here


Baalim   Mexico. Feb 14 2017 09:47. Posts 34246

I think I can tackle your position on anarcho-collectivism and hopeful of human as species at the same time.


You mention that only in recent years (past couple of centuries) we have had the only tangible moral advancement in history and I agree, and what do you think this is all about? It isnt about ideas since greek and roman philosophers stood as the best philosophical ideas for millennia, it also isnt biology, we evolve too slow to have any meaningful change, its all about technological progress that is exactly the thing that grew exponentially at the exact same time we improved morally.

Turns out that what allows us to become better people en-masse is living comfortable lives, most people cant be noble when they are starving and fearful and this exact progress is only achievable by the free market, the thing you appear to be against.

Communism didnt fail just because of presense of a state, communism failed and will always fail because it goes against human nature, angry resentful farmers were told that labor was exploitation and that the farm owners got rich out of their suffering, so they hanged the owners who were the smartest and most indostrious people in town, so naturally famine got a death grip of the Soviet Union, and as I mentioned it earlier, starving people tend to leave their morals behind... to the point where the government had to literally give leaflets reminding people that Cannibalism was wrong.

I think you are misunderstanding free market with a piece of shit corporation like EXXON, who isnt an example of capitalism but a twisted monopoly which only exists because of its alliance with the state, those entities would never exist in a free market.

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online 

Loco   Canada. Feb 14 2017 12:05. Posts 20963


  You mention that only in recent years (past couple of centuries) we have had the only tangible moral advancement in history and I agree, and what do you think this is all about? It isnt about ideas since greek and roman philosophers stood as the best philosophical ideas for millennia, it also isnt biology, we evolve too slow to have any meaningful change, its all about technological progress that is exactly the thing that grew exponentially at the exact same time we improved morally.




That's a faith-based position. Not only that, but it strikes me as so absurd to praise technological progress when we would have already wiped ourselves out en-masse because of it if it wasn't for MAD, and with the Cold War 2.0 it's still a huge issue today. Technological progress is a massive double-edged sword.


  Turns out that what allows us to become better people en-masse is living comfortable lives, most people cant be noble when they are starving and fearful and this exact progress is only achievable by the free market, the thing you appear to be against.



It can be, but honestly, this is only a small minority of comfortable people. How many comfortable people are there in the western world? And how many of those people are involved in effective altruism? Hardly any. Even the people who profess to want to be the benefactors of humanity like Stroggoz are focusing on their own desires and unless they have a feeling of nagging guilt, they never do anything to help reduce suffering outside of nepotism.


Probably posted these before but worth a watch/read:



https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/john-gray-interview-atheism

fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccountLast edit: 14/02/2017 13:36

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Feb 14 2017 12:24. Posts 9634


  It can be, but honestly, this is only a small minority of comfortable people. How many comfortable people are there in the western world? And how many of those people are involved in effective altruism? Hardly any. Even the people who profess to want to be the benefactors of humanity like Stroggoz are focusing on their own desires and unless they have a feeling of nagging guilt, they never do anything to help reduce suffering outside of nepotism.


Being beneficial to others and being an altruist are two completely different things, though. You are coming to conclusions too quickly imo


 
It is important not to ruin your life over having a moral conscience. A lot of people who gain moral consciences do this and in the end it just means they can't do anything positive for anyone.


That's because you can easily fall into a state of moral desperation where nothing feels purposeful. I guess its a choice you make with what approach you tackle on life afterwards. Negativity is always the easy way, although people don't see it this way.


 
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