On May 19 2020 23:57 Loco wrote:
Found another very principled egghead that's part of the Baalim school of economics and who also makes the best arguments ever
It's rather embarrassing but in say 2011-2012 I religiously watched Shark Tank and read Kevin O'Leary's book... I think it was called "Cold Hard Truths." I was a big fan. I would say the show and the book actually helped a substantial amount in my business dealings at that time. It would be interesting to see if I was the business unit Sales Director at this point instead of sitting in my parent's dining room typing this out on LP if I would agree with above video. I cringe that it would even be up for debate.
I feel like any psychologist who's trying to teach people about how extreme self deception and rationalization can be should use this video as an example. There arn't many better examples.
One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings
Found another very principled egghead that's part of the Baalim school of economics and who also makes the best arguments ever
I heard 90% of millionaires in America did NOT inherit it. So that means you can be "inequal" too. Just start taking responsibility, increase your income, save more money, get out of debt, spend less on shit.. I will at least try this myself, complaining about unfairness does not help the process. In Canada you have all the opportunities in the world !
Someone in Bangladesh probably works 2-3 times harder than you do. And is paid 1/10th. So, be carefull when you talk about how unfair the world is. You live in Canada and should easily retire as a millionaire.
Your new buddy O'Leary got $10,000 from his mom and free basement space to start his project.
From the article:
Mattel’s purchase of TLC was later labeled by Businessweek magazine as one of “the Worst Deals of All Time.”
notice how vandermeyde said "did not inherit it" ... "it" meaning their current fortune. yeah duh, they didn't always inherent their fortune, but they almost always inherited enough to have capital to invest, which didn't make it particularly hard to make more money from. they also inherited other privileges that they didn't work for and which makes it easier to live and compete within their own society.
but it doesn't matter whether you "started from nothing" or not, it says nothing relevant to highlight the difference between the exploitation you did to become rich and the one your parents did in order to pass it on to you. one way or another it is a result of cheating other people out of their labor that is responsible for it, and it's not correlated with you working harder than other people who have less money than you.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
I remember watching Gary Vaynerchuk until in a single video with Simon Senek he said two things.
1. I got the same opportunity as everyone else, went through school and college and then worked for my dad for a post-graduation starting salary of 50,000$ a year ( he actually thought that's standard)
2. I think reading books is a waste of time
He's considered one of the most influential marketing people right now in the world and a perfect example of the topic.
1
blackjacki2 United States. May 20 2020 23:58. Posts 2581
Found another very principled egghead that's part of the Baalim school of economics and who also makes the best arguments ever
I heard 90% of millionaires in America did NOT inherit it. So that means you can be "inequal" too. Just start taking responsibility, increase your income, save more money, get out of debt, spend less on shit.. I will at least try this myself, complaining about unfairness does not help the process. In Canada you have all the opportunities in the world !
Someone in Bangladesh probably works 2-3 times harder than you do. And is paid 1/10th. So, be carefull when you talk about how unfair the world is. You live in Canada and should easily retire as a millionaire.
Your new buddy O'Leary got $10,000 from his mom and free basement space to start his project.
From the article:
Mattel’s purchase of TLC was later labeled by Businessweek magazine as one of “the Worst Deals of All Time.”
that man is embarrassingly ignorant. his whole shtick is a performance built on a strawman argument and a caricature of "the lazy person who blames the economy". no one has ever argued for perfect equality between people. the central slogan of Marx's idea of communism is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". obviously, if people have different abilities, they are unequal. there is no desire or incentives to eliminate those differences.
When Jeff Bezos makes $220,000,000 per day, he is not working harder than the child who is forced to work 16 hours a day in a sweatshop factory in Bangladesh and earns less than 1 dollar a day in order to produce some component that Amazon sells. That is an extreme example of the problem of wealth inequality when it's not being strawmaned by some self-help guru. Jeff Bezos is similarly not working harder than other people in the US who make poverty wages, he is just in a position where he can exploit their hard work.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
Found another very principled egghead that's part of the Baalim school of economics and who also makes the best arguments ever
I heard 90% of millionaires in America did NOT inherit it. So that means you can be "inequal" too. Just start taking responsibility, increase your income, save more money, get out of debt, spend less on shit.. I will at least try this myself, complaining about unfairness does not help the process. In Canada you have all the opportunities in the world !
Someone in Bangladesh probably works 2-3 times harder than you do. And is paid 1/10th. So, be carefull when you talk about how unfair the world is. You live in Canada and should easily retire as a millionaire.
Your new buddy O'Leary got $10,000 from his mom and free basement space to start his project.
From the article:
Mattel’s purchase of TLC was later labeled by Businessweek magazine as one of “the Worst Deals of All Time.”
On May 19 2020 14:28 Spitfiree wrote:
Think he's just viewing this from a rational standpoint without being emotional, which makes sense? Your hypothetical situation would only end up hurting yourself further and accomplish nothing else. It's self-imposed masochism for some hypothetical justice.
That is not rational, its a shitty attempt of rationalization.
If it were then gargling his balls for $1,000 bucks is also rational since, you are not helping him since anybody else would do it so he is getting his balls gargled but you get $1,000 and since apprently there is no such thing as self respect, there are no downsides, ez $1,000... very rational -__-.
If somebody murders your entire family you dont buy their products, you dont garble his balls, you avenge your family and if this isn't crystal clear you are a pathetic coward.
Jesus, you really can't make analogies. It's in these moments that we can really tell just how much Molyneux and you have in common.
Here's the reality. Even though I'd buy the Kindle second-hand, if I were to buy a new one directly from Amazon, Bezos would make less than 0.0000000001 of his total net worth through my purchase. And this is with me charitably calculating that he'd make a direct gain of $20, while it's probably far less. Sorry, but it's just not rational to think that number makes a difference. You can act all principled and shit and do your machismo act but you can't argue with the numbers.
As for revenge, there is none possible, hence the self-delusion that your market-based act of resistance would serve a purpose. You've watched too many gangster movies. Move on to some Studio Ghibli animes instead and edify yourself.
Was just re-watching the Darkest Hour (WW2 Winston Churchill biopic). Have to admire the courage and the grit of the British people who swore to fight on while facing annihilation against a tyrant that had conquered most of Europe. Not sure how we went from that generation to this generation of Loco and those defending him saying they would keep buying the products of a billionaire tyrant that murdered his family and shit in his face. That's not what they meant by Keep Calm and Carry On...
The whole "I'm too insignificant to make a difference" argument is just a cop out to abandon your principles. 1 vote in an election could be 0.00000001% of votes, 1 infantry men in an army could be 0.0000001% of an army. By that logic it doesn't even matter who you vote for or what side of a war you fight on because there's virtually 0% chance it will make a difference.
1
blackjacki2 United States. May 22 2020 02:56. Posts 2581
Found another very principled egghead that's part of the Baalim school of economics and who also makes the best arguments ever
I heard 90% of millionaires in America did NOT inherit it. So that means you can be "inequal" too. Just start taking responsibility, increase your income, save more money, get out of debt, spend less on shit.. I will at least try this myself, complaining about unfairness does not help the process. In Canada you have all the opportunities in the world !
Someone in Bangladesh probably works 2-3 times harder than you do. And is paid 1/10th. So, be carefull when you talk about how unfair the world is. You live in Canada and should easily retire as a millionaire.
Your new buddy O'Leary got $10,000 from his mom and free basement space to start his project.
From the article:
Mattel’s purchase of TLC was later labeled by Businessweek magazine as one of “the Worst Deals of All Time.”
Found another very principled egghead that's part of the Baalim school of economics and who also makes the best arguments ever
I heard 90% of millionaires in America did NOT inherit it. So that means you can be "inequal" too. Just start taking responsibility, increase your income, save more money, get out of debt, spend less on shit.. I will at least try this myself, complaining about unfairness does not help the process. In Canada you have all the opportunities in the world !
Someone in Bangladesh probably works 2-3 times harder than you do. And is paid 1/10th. So, be carefull when you talk about how unfair the world is. You live in Canada and should easily retire as a millionaire.
Your new buddy O'Leary got $10,000 from his mom and free basement space to start his project.
From the article:
Mattel’s purchase of TLC was later labeled by Businessweek magazine as one of “the Worst Deals of All Time.”
He never mentions this stuff on Dragon's Den, Shark Tank, or his books.
If it was a terrible deal for Mattel then obviously it was a great deal for O'Leary. If I could sell a pile of shit for $4 billion I would too
It's just a sign of the culture that something like that would be looked upon as respectful.
I would think you'd be one of the last people to lament a bad business deal made by a multi-billion dollar corporation
I don't feel bad for Mattel. It's how O'Leary manipulated the situation that I don't like. There was a time my past employer was getting sub-optimal product to the floor and the VP of Sales line was DON'T SAY A WORD, LET IT RIDE, FINAL ANSWER. That is an extremely uncomfortable situation to be in. I would never knowingly sell faulty products to someone and I especially wouldn't masterfully cover up and intentionally deceive someone. It's not even because in business the long game matters but because not scamming people is the right thing to do.
My principles are not yours. If you're going to claim that I am abandoning mine you should first know what they are.
No, my argument is not analogous to the voter or the soldier in WW2. Your argument by analogy fails on two levels. First, there are statistical fat-tail risks involved in war and voting. The probability of one actor having a massive impact might be low, but the impact might be so enormous that we must take all actors seriously. One person can actually turn the war or the election in some circumstances.
We are living in the middle of a global pandemic that proves this point perfectly. It began with one person. If that person had been contained we'd be living in a different world. This is not the case with a purchase through Amazon. These are categorically different processes. The payoff for the boycott is purely psychological and individual. It is materially insignificant.
I'm theory it wouldn't be insignificant if people could organize and use their purchasing power to diminish the power of a multi billionaire. But the whole point of my argument is that it's essentially impossible to collectivize under neoliberal capitalism and fight tyranny through the market. Those examples you gave are all about that very power of collectivisation.
My second point was that it's a privilege to be able to forgo certain things and engage in boycotts or harm reduction purchasing. For example, I am a vegan, and I am under no illusion that I am saving animals by not purchasing pieces of their dead bodies. I still do it on principle, and because it disgusts me, and because I basically don't have any good reason to purchase them. I do it because I can, but I don't morally condemn those who can't.
Bezos is already a murderer in my book and I simply don't have the privilege of escaping his power and not contributing to his empire, no matter how small that contribution is. I'm simply not going to lie to myself and pretend that boycotting him is an effective resistance. The rational way to deal with such power is to argue against and work outside of the system that grants him such powers so as to make collectivized efforts towards eventually not creating future Bezoses. Hitler wasn't untouchable. Most of the world united against him. Bezos is untouchable. The world has no power to rebel against him because they must engage in capitalist relations that benefit him in order to survive.
The only point that I am willing to concede is that I would be disgusted that I have to rely on my oppressor's technology and I wouldn't like having the reminder of it. But I am already feeling like this on a regular basis, and I still would be reminded of him a lot of the time even without this tech because his presence is ubiquitous.
I don't need him to kill my family to be disgusted unlike you people. I am already disgusted because I understand that abject poverty and the death of so many people are things that are created by that class of people and the systems that are propped up for them. Every billion that he makes and keeps to himself is the indirect murder of so many people. My family isn't special.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
Last edit: 22/05/2020 04:09
1
blackjacki2 United States. May 22 2020 04:05. Posts 2581
On May 22 2020 02:25 Loco wrote:
My principles are not yours. If you're going to claim that I am abandoning mine you should first know what they are.
Sorry if I incorrectly assumed buying the products of a man that murdered your family and shit in your face was against your principles.
No, my argument is not analogous to the voter or the soldier in WW2. Your argument by analogy fails on two levels. First, there are statistical fat-tail risks involved in war and voting. The probability of one actor having a massive impact might be low, but the impact might be so enormous that we must take all actors seriously. One person can actually turn the war or the election.
We are living in the middle of a global pandemic that proves this point perfectly. It began with one person. This is not the case with a purchase through Amazon. These are categorically different processes. The payoff for the boycott is purely psychological and individual.
The whole point of my argument is that it's essentially impossible to collectivize under neoliberal capitalism and fight tyranny through the market. Those examples you gave are all about that very power of collectivisation.
My second point was that it's a privilege to be able to forgo certain things and engage in boycotts or harm reduction purchasing. For example, I am a vegan, and I am under no illusion that I am saving animals by not purchasing pieces of their dead bodies. I still do it on principle, and because it disgusts me, and because I basically don't have any good reason to purchase them. I do it because I can, but I don't morally condemn those who can't.
Bezos is already a murderer in my book and I simply don't have the privilege of escaping his power and not contributing to his empire, no matter how small that contribution is. I'm simply not going to lie to myself and pretend that boycotting him is an effective resistance. The rational way to deal with such power is to argue against and work outside of the system that grants him such powers so as to make collectivized efforts towards eventually not creating future Bezoses. Hitler wasn't untouchable. Most of the world united against him. Bezos is untouchable. The world has no interest in rebelling against him.
Then call for a worldwide boycott or kill him yourself. Low probability of success but enormous impact if you are successful.
I think there's probably 0 people on the planet that don't have the privilege of being able to boycott Amazon. Poor people aren't buying their food from Amazon. Whole Foods is more expensive than most grocery stores. Those 80% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck just can't afford to stop buying stupid toys for their pets and blankets with sleeves for their arms.
Lots of people don't have the means to do so, especially during the pandemic. If you were poor, unemployed and in debt and also immunocompromised, you'd shop online, and you'd shop where it's the cheapest. End of story.
It's not just Amazon shopping and Whole Foods. I've mentioned that already. Google what he has his hands into and come back to me.
There is a threshold at which point principles have to be abandoned in certain circumstances. Pure deontology is fanaticism that is ill-adapted to the world. You can give me one of your principles and I can probably convince you of it pretty easily with a different argument if you doubt that it's the case.
And again, the charge that I am abandoning my principles is unfounded. I've specifically said that ecological-friendliness is something I care about, so if I am using a technology that is aligned with that, I am being principled. Your issue is that I am not prioritizing your principles over mine.
Calling for a worldwide boycott is useless. It is already being done. The world is structured in such a way that it is impossible to take power away from billionaires in such a way, period. We can predict that there will be future pandemics, but we cannot predict that a multi billionaire will fall due to a boycott for a reason: it doesn't ever happen.
Killing Bezos is not aligned with my principles either. I'm not a medieval peasant.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
That whole boycott amazon thing is such a ridiculous thing to say in practice. You realize they own more of the cloud services than the rest of the competition combined. You would literally have to stop using the internet to boycott Amazon. The irony is so strong its almost unbelievable
1
blackjacki2 United States. May 22 2020 22:45. Posts 2581
On May 22 2020 03:13 Loco wrote:
Lots of people don't have the means to do so, especially during the pandemic. If you were poor, unemployed and in debt and also immunocompromised, you'd shop online, and you'd shop where it's the cheapest. End of story.
Again, this is something you've made up in your head. Poor people do their shopping at Wal-mart. Go to an impoverished country and tell the people there that in America people are so poor they have no other recourse but to go online and press a few buttons and have their food hand delivered to their doorstep. They will look at you like you're an asshole.
If you want to throw immunocompromised into the mix and also ignore the fact that a lot of Wal-marts and other stores are doing contactless pickup then we're talking about maybe 1% of people that would benefit from using Amazon to buy shit.[/quote]
It's not just Amazon shopping and Whole Foods. I've mentioned that already. Google what he has his hands into and come back to me.
There is a threshold at which point principles have to be abandoned in certain circumstances. Pure deontology is fanaticism that is ill-adapted to the world. You can give me one of your principles and I can probably convince you of it pretty easily with a different argument if you doubt that it's the case.
And again, the charge that I am abandoning my principles is unfounded. I've specifically said that ecological-friendliness is something I care about, so if I am using a technology that is aligned with that, I am being principled. Your issue is that I am not prioritizing your principles over mine.
.
Yeah, basically. I also wouldn't be patting myself on the back for pirating shit just because it's "eco-friendly."
I choose justice over revenge. You could just go to the police and get bezos arrested, (if you live in the same country). Personally i think the progress in the legal system since King John and magna carta is one of the high points of western civilization, in this i'd agree with steven pinker. Sticking to legal principles over personal revenge shows strength imo, it's taken a long time for society to realize this.
I think it was implied that you wouldn't get justice by the system, I'm obv ok with him going to jail, but if the system were to fail, I'd take justice by my own hands.
On May 22 2020 21:45 blackjacki2 wrote:
Again, this is something you've made up in your head. Poor people do their shopping at Wal-mart. Go to an impoverished country and tell the people there that in America people are so poor they have no other recourse but to go online and press a few buttons and have their food hand delivered to their doorstep. They will look at you like you're an asshole.
A few points:
- You said "the world". There are places without Wal-marts. I am in Japan now where we have Amazon but no Wal-mart.
- Some things are cheaper at Wal-mart, not all things. Here's an article that compares some of those things.
- Things you want/need are not going to always been in stock at Wal-mart
- Amazon's free 2 day shipping policy might be better than Wal-mart's depending on where you live. In Canada if you only need a few things you won't get free shipping from Wal-mart (minimum $50 versus Amazon's $35). Shipping is also slower when you go for Wal-mart. Return policy is also worse since you cannot ship it back to them for free.
But most importantly, you are just giving your money to some other murderous conglomerate. At the bottom of this sentiment is the belief that you/your family matters more than others. I don't share this sentiment, so it would not assuage me. The intrusion that these corporate monsters have in my life and the control they have over society bothers me enough already that adding some personal injury on top of it wouldn't change much of anything.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
Last edit: 23/05/2020 00:04
1
blackjacki2 United States. May 23 2020 01:22. Posts 2581
On May 22 2020 21:45 blackjacki2 wrote:
Again, this is something you've made up in your head. Poor people do their shopping at Wal-mart. Go to an impoverished country and tell the people there that in America people are so poor they have no other recourse but to go online and press a few buttons and have their food hand delivered to their doorstep. They will look at you like you're an asshole.
A few points:
- You said "the world". There are places without Wal-marts. I am in Japan now where we have Amazon but no Wal-mart.
- Some things are cheaper at Wal-mart, not all things. Here's an article that compares some of those things.
- Things you want/need are not going to always been in stock at Wal-mart
- Amazon's free 2 day shipping policy might be better than Wal-mart's depending on where you live. In Canada if you only need a few things you won't get free shipping from Wal-mart (minimum $50 versus Amazon's $35). Shipping is also slower when you go for Wal-mart. Return policy is also worse since you cannot ship it back to them for free.
But most importantly, you are just giving your money to some other murderous conglomerate. At the bottom of this sentiment is the belief that you/your family matters more than others. I don't share this sentiment, so it would not assuage me. The intrusion that these corporate monsters have in my life and the control they have over society bothers me enough already that adding some personal injury on top of it wouldn't change much of anything.
Certainly my family and my life matter more to me. If someone put a gun to my head and gave me a gun and said shoot my family member or shoot a stranger or do nothing and both will be shot then I know what I would do. What would you do?
That question and your implied choice literally changes nothing in the grand scheme of things.
The whole ' debate' came from the inability of the free market to do shit against corporations. The fact that you're in the internet, your data is gathered and sold to the highest bidder where you're getting a profile created to abuse your cognitive behaviour in order to make you spend money on shit you don't need, that is being produced and transported by underpaid workers that don't even get basic protection gear during a pandemic is a big fat joke.
You guys are completely clueless on the influence and power of tech giants, there has never been anything as powerful in terms of businesses. Your everyday life is drawn by them on many levels. There is literally zero chance of you boycotting them unless you move into a bunker in the woods. Also, good luck telling people to switch over from the most convenient option of services they have, they definitely give two fucks about some unethical conduct that doesn't directly impact their daily lives.
There is evidence for the majority of them doing insanely unethical things, yet you're here talking about Bezos shooting your family and executing revenge as a metaphor of the ' hand of the market' ... get the fuck out seriously.
edit: and don't get me wrong, tech companies have improved our lives to a level that would've been unimaginable just 20-30 years ago, but that is not the point.
United States. May 20 2020 21:57. Posts 8539
