Cant believe there isnt a thread about this already but anyway, the Britain leaves the European Union, the GBP is on freefall, Cameron just resigned and everybody is on panic mode.
Another proof that democracy is a shit system simply because people are retarded
They are not legally bound to accept the vote of the people, so anything can happen, however I really don't see how this is good for the UK. Their economy will plummet
Just check the statistics, only old people and retards voted for Brexit.
It's w/e EU could come back from that. The fear propaganda however is very dangerous as conservatives gain more and more control throughout the planet.
Over 50% of UKs export goes to the EU, welcome to getting raped in the butt after you are not a part of the union or are they gonna pull an " 'Murica " and start a war somewhere
The Markets everywhere are going to take a beating, but Britain will get the worst of it.
Hope all the pain will be worth it (doubt it)
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
The German MEP Elmar Brok, who chairs the European parliament’s committee on foreign affairs, told the Guardian the parliament would call on Juncker to strip the British commissioner, Jonathan Hill, of the financial services brief with immediate effect and turn him into a “commissioner without portfolio”.
He said: “They will have to negotiate from the position of a third country, not as a member state. If Britain wants to have a similar status to Switzerland and Norway, then it will also have to pay into EU structural funds like those countries do. The British public will find out what that means.”
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
Last edit: 24/06/2016 14:41
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vasoline73 United States. Jun 24 2016 15:39. Posts 808
On June 24 2016 13:40 uiCk wrote:
Staying away, this thread will be aids.
On June 24 2016 13:23 Balzamon wrote:
Yes, this is the end of the UK. Just look at Norway and Switzerland, countries in free fall. Then look at the rising empires of Greece and Spain!
Lately the cafe's stopped serving a common local dish here because some idiot in Brussel decided it was too much "natron" in it.....
Good thing we have Brussel to save us from this evilness
Yes, the decisions taken by the uneducated working class and the old people of a nation usually bring such fertile results.
Kind of funny that many of those people will find themselves jobless in the near future when the financial crisis strikes and the short term unemployment rockets
Last edit: 24/06/2016 17:03
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soberstone United States. Jun 24 2016 17:15. Posts 2662
On June 24 2016 15:57 Spitfiree wrote:
Yes, the decisions taken by the uneducated working class and the old people of a nation usually bring such fertile results.
Kind of funny that many of those people will find themselves jobless in the near future when the financial crisis strikes and the short term unemployment rockets
Yah those old people have no wisdom.
The Marxists have really gotten to you. Class warfare. The peasants should have no say. They don't know what's good for'em.
On June 24 2016 10:15 Baalim wrote:
Cant believe there isnt a thread about this already but anyway, the Britain leaves the European Union, the GBP is on freefall, Cameron just resigned and everybody is on panic mode.
Another proof that democracy is a shit system simply because people are retarded
nah man... it's the leaders' fault. there's no real "democracy". the elections are rigged, the leaders don't perform as promised, and all they're there for is their agenda and their backer's agenda.
but yes the people are retarded because we still put up with this shit.
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Liquid`Drone Norway. Jun 24 2016 17:53. Posts 3093
How do you relate Marxism to anything spitfire said? (My experience is that actual marxists have been quite negative towards the EU for decades because of their economically liberal policies).
lol POKER
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thewh00sel United States. Jun 24 2016 18:22. Posts 2734
I'm all in GBP wish me luck
A government is the most dangerous threat to man’s rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims. - Ayn Rand
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
DooMeR United States. Jun 24 2016 21:31. Posts 8546
Can the people who are happy about this result explain why they are? I can only see this as a bad thing from the little I know.
I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance, by running away from the scene of an accident.
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soberstone United States. Jun 24 2016 22:25. Posts 2662
On June 24 2016 20:31 DooMeR wrote:
Can the people who are happy about this result explain why they are? I can only see this as a bad thing from the little I know.
Very simple.
#1 Most important - Britain can now close their borders and stem the tide of refugees which they would have had to accept as a matter of EU policy
#2 Britains economy now not run by Bureaucratic regulators out of Brussel
The main counterpoints
1. Somehow wanting closed borders is Xenophobic (retarded)
2. The economic counterpoint is that Britain's economy benefits from the interdependent economy of a larger, more dynamic European Super-Economy which would be true if the EU weren't filled with Socialist Welfare States like Greece and France that countries like Britain and Germany are subsidizing.
On June 24 2016 20:31 DooMeR wrote:
Can the people who are happy about this result explain why they are? I can only see this as a bad thing from the little I know.
I'm going to keep this short because I don't have time to offer a long response outlining every consideration. Maybe later if people still care at that point.
This vote was a lot more complicated than people gave it credit for. I'm not even sure who's telling the truth. There was a lot of bias and propaganda coming from both sides. The EU was supposed to be a trading bloc, but it become an anti-democratic institution; dictating to nations what they could and couldn't do with no way to remove those in power. Sovereignty and the migration of people became a focus for many people.
Turkey has been blackmailing the EU over the "refugee" crisis. If Turkey were to become part of the EU that would be an unimaginable disaster for Europe. Pundits warned everyone about the financial consequences and uncertainties of a leave victory but most people speculate that any downfall will be short-term. A leave vote was a long-term decision.
There are many nations in the EU that are performing poorly economically. The U.K. Is strong and it will remain so once the dust settles.
Edit: I'd also like to point out that this vote wasn't legally binding, so who knows what will happen later on.
On June 24 2016 20:31 DooMeR wrote:
Can the people who are happy about this result explain why they are? I can only see this as a bad thing from the little I know.
Very simple.
#1 Most important - Britain can now close their borders and stem the tide of refugees which they would have had to accept as a matter of EU policy
#2 Britains economy now not run by Bureaucratic regulators out of Brussel
For the 15th time this month, they can do whatever they want with their borders with people that do not have an id of a country in the EU and they have no immigration problem unlike other EU countries.
#2 Is something that can go either way, while I do agree the EU has a lot of shitty stuff and there hasnt been a single significant reform in years, they lack the balls to take decisions that matter. I can agree on all of those. However what the UK did was trade that for political insecurity for at least 3 years, high short-term unemployment rate, destruction of their economy for the next at least decade ( until/if they reach the same agreements the Swiss have for example ).
I wont be surprised if Scotland and Wales run referendums on their own about going out of the UK now as they would much rather prefer to tag along the EU than England, a country by the way that has left every union, in which it ever participated, the moment that things didn't go smooth.
Also what the post above said. Except the Turkey part. The EU has taken Turkey's application 29 years ago. They have never and will never have the chance to enter the union unless things there change fundamentally which would still take decades to develope. It was all political games, Erdogan has and edge and he s pushing it to the limits, its what smart politicians do regardless of morals.
Funny part about the #BRexit propaganda is that the 350 million pounds ( which arent 350 for further info -> John Oliver's Last Week Tonight ) ,which were a main advert of the brexit party , that the UK sent weekly, wont go towards NHS ( national healthcare system ) as promised. Better trust politicians
Last edit: 24/06/2016 23:41
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soberstone United States. Jun 24 2016 23:43. Posts 2662
On June 24 2016 20:31 DooMeR wrote:
Can the people who are happy about this result explain why they are? I can only see this as a bad thing from the little I know.
Very simple.
#1 Most important - Britain can now close their borders and stem the tide of refugees which they would have had to accept as a matter of EU policy
#2 Britains economy now not run by Bureaucratic regulators out of Brussel
For the 15th time this month, they can do whatever they want with their borders with people that do not have an id of a country in the EU and they have no immigration problem unlike other EU countries.
#2 Is something that can go either way, while I do agree the EU has a lot of shitty stuff and there hasnt been a single significant reform in years, they lack the balls to take decisions that matter. I can agree on all of those. However what the UK did was trade that for political insecurity for at least 3 years, high short-term unemployment rate, destruction of their economy for the next at least decade ( until/if they reach the same agreements the Swiss have for example ).
I wont be surprised if Scotland and Wales run referendums on their own about going out of the UK now as they would much rather prefer to tag along the EU than England, a country by the way that has left every union, in which it ever participated, the moment that things didn't go smooth.
Also what the post above said. Except the Turkey part. The EU has taken Turkey's application 29 years ago. They have never and will never have the chance to enter the union unless things there change fundamentally which would still take decades to develope. It was all political games, Erdogan has and edge and he s pushing it to the limits, its what smart politicians do regardless of morals.
Funny part about the #BRexit propaganda is that the 350 million pounds ( which arent 350 for further info -> John Oliver's Last Week Tonight ) ,which were a main advert of the brexit party , that the UK sent weekly, wont go towards NHS ( national healthcare system ) as promised. Better trust politicians
For the 25th time this month. No, If you are in the EU, you have to open your borders to ANYONE else within EU borders. Other countries in the EU are importing millions of refugees, so they are beginning to pour into England. Is this that hard to understand?
You clearly have done zero research. That's on you. Immigration was THE reason people voted to Brexit. You are making an absolute fool of yourself here. This isn't even a point that's up for contention. Both sides will readily acknowledge this.
Glad you listen to John Oliver (speaking of propoganda) and refuse to even simply do the most basic google search to find out how wrong you are.
the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom – maintain opt-outs.
As a result of the ongoing migration crisis and terrorist attacks in Paris, a number of countries have temporarily reintroduced controls on some or all of their borders with other Schengen states.
Both of which are true.
You are not forced to take non EU citizens in any way. They do NOT have the same rights as EU citizens.
Stop talking out of your arse.
If immigration was their strongest concern and thats really the reason they chose #brexit ( and i really doubt it is ) , then they are all retarded.
If you are in the EU you are not forced to open your borders towards other EU country that is not part of the Schengen Area. You have no idea how the structure works yet you are continueing this non sense. Stop spreading ignorance.
Example :
My country is a part of the EU, but not a part of Schengen - > I am forced to go through border control in the first Schengen Area and that was before the refugee crisis. After the crisis I might be forced to go through border control multiple times in different countries even if I already entered one. Schengen at this moment is not working and might potentially even disband, which does not mean the EU disbands, but hey go with your " research"
What you are implying is that if I were a refugee and I entered Greece for example, and I didn't get registered( refugees gotta stay in the first country they register to ) and i somehow got to England, they can't do shit about it. They will be all like" oh well you made it here, better give you money now". I guess thats why they shipped dozens of planes full of refugess back to Turkey then ?
I bet you will vote for Trump too. The ignorance is really strong .
Last edit: 25/06/2016 00:01
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soberstone United States. Jun 24 2016 23:59. Posts 2662
Here you go bud.
"People who are nationals of European Union [REFUGEES] member states have the right to work or live across the EU. That's not something from which the UK can opt out while it remains in the EU."
Is the BBC a good source for you? A liberal mainstream media outlet good enough?
Just stop. This is not a controversial issue. It's a fact. It's as much up for debate as whether murder is illegal. You are just wrong.
"People who are nationals of European Union "People who are nationals of European Union "People who are nationals of European Union "People who are nationals of European Union "People who are nationals of European Union "People who are nationals of European Union
And implying that they have a problem with EU citizens immigration is purely a lie. There is not a single source of evidence pointing towards that. Majority of eu citizen immigrants are spread into 2 categories - A) Students B) Working class which they lack.
Last edit: 25/06/2016 00:04
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soberstone United States. Jun 25 2016 00:03. Posts 2662
I'VE SAID THIS 30 TIMES.
I'M NOT SAYING THEY HAVE TO TAKE NON EU CITIZENS. I AM SAYING THEY HAVE TO TAKE ALL IMMIGRANTS THAT ANY EU COUNTRY ACCEPTS. DO THE CAPITALS LETTERS HELP YOU UNDERSTAND?
Hypothetical: Germany accepts 1.3 million refugees. Now they end up in the UK.
Oh wait, not a hypothetical, because it just fucking happened.
No they cant. I do not know where you get that false info. Those refugees are to stay in the country they are registered in. Accepting refugees does not make them eu citizens nor does it give them the same rights
What the article you've posted implies is that in your Hypothetical, Germany issues 1.3 million IDs for those refugees. You realize how absurd that sounds right?
The EU is still struggling on how to manage those people let alone anything else
What is the European Union’s asylum policy?
The EU has spent years building the Common European Asylum System (CEAS), which is intended to ensure that the rights of refugees under international law are protected in its member states. The system sets out minimum standards and procedures for processing and assessing asylum applications, and for the treatment of both asylum seekers and those who are granted refugee status. However, many EU states have yet to properly implement these standards. What exists instead is a patchwork of 28 asylum systems producing uneven results.
Where an asylum seeker travels through several EU countries, the CEAS allows one EU country to send that person to the first EU country reached by the asylum seeker, so long as that country upholds the rights of asylum seekers. This so-called “Dublin system” privileges EU countries in the north, the desired destination of many refugees, at the expense of the south, where most refugees first arrived.
But only a very small proportion of asylum seekers are transferred this way, and failures of asylum systems in Greece, Italy, and Hungary have led courts to block transfers. Unlike settled residents and tourists, asylum seekers do not have the right to move freely within the EU’s Schengen area.
Member states have reinstituted border controls at times, endangering the Schengen system of free movement, as well as erected fences along borders, notably in Hungary and Bulgaria. Several countries in Central Europe have been openly dismissive of resettling refugees, and far-right anti-immigrant parties have risen in popularity across Europe.
Why asylum ? Cause refugees seek asylum, migrants seek self improvement.
This is how the refugee system works, this is why Hungary went all mad and wanted to kill all refugees ( Cause noone wants to stay in the southern borders of the EU aka Bulgaria and Greece and they all move on to the next one even though they shouldnt, but there s noone to stop them.
Done discussing the immigration topic.
Nigel Farage s main argument was that those refugees will receive passports by whichever country they are registered to which would lead them to migrate to the UK. NIgel Farage often states absurd things like that which make him look like an idiot, but in fact is a well ran propaganda that wins the votes of the same idiots that voted for BRexit
P.S. Yes John Oliver also states a lot of propaganda bullshit, even in the BRexit topic, but once you see who he s lobbying for its not hard to select the crops from the weeds.
Last edit: 25/06/2016 00:21
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waga United Kingdom. Jun 25 2016 01:07. Posts 2375
You know you're a fucking idiot when Spitfiree school you
On June 24 2016 10:15 Baalim wrote:
Cant believe there isnt a thread about this already but anyway, the Britain leaves the European Union, the GBP is on freefall, Cameron just resigned and everybody is on panic mode.
Another proof that democracy is a shit system simply because people are retarded
nah man... it's the leaders' fault. there's no real "democracy". the elections are rigged, the leaders don't perform as promised, and all they're there for is their agenda and their backer's agenda.
but yes the people are retarded because we still put up with this shit.
They are not rigged, people voted and chose, and regardless what is the best option, most people voting to leave did so related to immigration issues which is absolutely stupid.
On June 24 2016 15:49 soberstone wrote:
As if free trade can't be accomplished between sovereign nations and borders are a bad thing. So absurd.
It can and it did in Europe before the EU, however the EU has to show the rest of europe what happens when you leave, so they are going to make an example out of Britain.
On June 24 2016 10:15 Baalim wrote:
Cant believe there isnt a thread about this already but anyway, the Britain leaves the European Union, the GBP is on freefall, Cameron just resigned and everybody is on panic mode.
Another proof that democracy is a shit system simply because people are retarded
nah man... it's the leaders' fault. there's no real "democracy". the elections are rigged, the leaders don't perform as promised, and all they're there for is their agenda and their backer's agenda.
but yes the people are retarded because we still put up with this shit.
They are not rigged, people voted and chose, and regardless what is the best option, most people voting to leave did so related to immigration issues which is absolutely stupid.
so you believe in every election there's no cheating, in one form or another, involved?
On June 24 2016 15:49 soberstone wrote:
As if free trade can't be accomplished between sovereign nations and borders are a bad thing. So absurd.
It can and it did in Europe before the EU, however the EU has to show the rest of europe what happens when you leave, so they are going to make an example out of Britain.
We dont like taking orders from brussel dictators thank you.
"Make an example", first we will have Nexit and Frexit mate. Eventually there will be only Angela Merkel left. Germany will not be able to ruin Europa a third time at this moment
On June 24 2016 10:15 Baalim wrote:
Cant believe there isnt a thread about this already but anyway, the Britain leaves the European Union, the GBP is on freefall, Cameron just resigned and everybody is on panic mode.
Another proof that democracy is a shit system simply because people are retarded
nah man... it's the leaders' fault. there's no real "democracy". the elections are rigged, the leaders don't perform as promised, and all they're there for is their agenda and their backer's agenda.
but yes the people are retarded because we still put up with this shit.
They are not rigged, people voted and chose, and regardless what is the best option, most people voting to leave did so related to immigration issues which is absolutely stupid.
so you believe in every election there's no cheating, in one form or another, involved?
Of course there are a huge of amounts of rigging in many elections, however this doesnt seems the case, especially because the people in power wanted to remain in the EU, claiming it was rigged with no evidence or even a specific reason is ridiculous
On June 24 2016 15:49 soberstone wrote:
As if free trade can't be accomplished between sovereign nations and borders are a bad thing. So absurd.
It can and it did in Europe before the EU, however the EU has to show the rest of europe what happens when you leave, so they are going to make an example out of Britain.
We dont like taking orders from brussel dictators thank you.
"Make an example", first we will have Nexit and Frexit mate. Eventually there will be only Angela Merkel left. Germany will not be able to ruin Europa a third time at this moment
dont like taking orders from Brussel dictators, first of all you dont know what is a dictator, second that is not an argument, the main arguments for leaving or staying in the EU should be economical, all these sovereignty, nationalism and immigration arguments are traps for easily manipulated fools.
And maybe they leave in the future, maybe they wont, but for the time being the EU will absolutely trash Britain in an attempt to stop anyone else from leaving.
Its funny when people argue from emotion, we wont take orders from nobody! dictators marxists bla bla bla, think in terms of pros and cons, on how the economy and society will be affected by either choice, be rational and pragmatical for a change.
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
Last edit: 25/06/2016 04:50
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soberstone United States. Jun 25 2016 06:33. Posts 2662
Pros:
- Sovereignty (not having over-regulating bureaucrats in Brussels writing laws for you)
- Long-term economic sustainability via not subsidizing socialist countries like Greece
- Stable flow of labor rather than importing cheap labor for huge corporations at the expense of the working class (this is only the first step to accomplishing that, Brexit alone won't be enough, it will take a responsible government reasonably separate from Corporatist influence)
- Stable borders for security in the face of Islamic Radicalism.
- Economically not relying on a failing EU central bank that is going to completely collapse eventually due to an unsustainable welfare state
Cons:
Have to listen to people tell you how stupid you are for disagreeing and how the best kind of government must be dictatorships since democracy is a stupid concept.
I'll take the pro's.
I am yet to hear a sound economic argument as to why staying is better. I understand that trade agreements need to be re-written but I don't see why that can't be accomplished, it's small potatoes, Britain will be fine, their real economy (not speculative) produces far more wealth than average EU Nation-State
If there is a good economic argument as to why leaving was terrible, go for it, but the whole "xenophobic, fear-mongering, stupid people voted" isn't selling anyone besides those already in the echo chamber.
I love how you go with the border argument still. The denial is real. Love how you think that the native population wants to be the one doing the cheap labor instead of the migrants. Love how you just throw out complete bullshit speculation about the Central Bank failing as if they are some kind of facts. Chances of EU's central bank collapsing are the same as the Federal Reserve failing, everybody thinks its eventually bound to happen, never actually will.
Meanwhile UK's law on requirements for a new possible referendum is gathering 100k + people. Already 420k have signed and the parliament might call a new referendum. That would be perfect considering the #brexit party got exposed with its lies right after the vote.
And that is exactly how a visceral argument looks like, use all the stupid buzzwords, socialist, dictatorship, welfare state and not list a single positive thing for remaining in the EU.
It surprises me how people cannot see their own bias no matter how blatant it is.
On June 24 2016 15:49 soberstone wrote:
As if free trade can't be accomplished between sovereign nations and borders are a bad thing. So absurd.
It can and it did in Europe before the EU, however the EU has to show the rest of europe what happens when you leave, so they are going to make an example out of Britain.
We dont like taking orders from brussel dictators thank you.
"Make an example", first we will have Nexit and Frexit mate. Eventually there will be only Angela Merkel left. Germany will not be able to ruin Europa a third time at this moment
dont like taking orders from Brussel dictators, first of all you dont know what is a dictator, second that is not an argument, the main arguments for leaving or staying in the EU should be economical, all these sovereignty, nationalism and immigration arguments are traps for easily manipulated fools.
And maybe they leave in the future, maybe they wont, but for the time being the EU will absolutely trash Britain in an attempt to stop anyone else from leaving.
Its funny when people argue from emotion, we wont take orders from nobody! dictators marxists bla bla bla, think in terms of pros and cons, on how the economy and society will be affected by either choice, be rational and pragmatical for a change.
Yes very funny indeed. EU should be working for the working class, not the big companies and top 1%. In countries like Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, Ukraine etc its STILL normal sallary f 500 euro per month... Good changes would mean doing something about that. Not let the same criminal mafia companies that pays 500e/month enter Norway and pay their drivers 1e/10kilometer for driving 50 ton trucks here and as a direct result ruin all the norwegian companies that threat their drivers just fine and went by the Law. Not just for truckers, but for so many industries... Well i guess not politicians. The day latvians show up and want to do the same job as the politcians for 1/3 or 1/4 of the sallary THEN i think politicians even here would react. Yes, the brussel dictators (we never voted for them!) keep passing ton of bills to make it too complicated for everyone and especially small businesses starting up to realistically have any real success. And if any Norwegian politician want to make some good change, they have to hire laywers and take forever because that means looking through 1000's of EU Directives first to see if that change is even possible. Good changes for the criminals, the rich and the already big companies.
No thnx, EU countries been trading for 1000's of years and will still keep trading after EU falls.
The day your company got fucked like how mine got fucked maybe you could comprehend that something working for U.S doesnt mean it should be implemented in Europe. (I think EU is far worse thou. And I dont get why you think the U.S system would be so great)
Only if there was some kind of institution protecting the developed countries from such price dumping in the EU hmmm hmm hmmm
Only if there were requirements to get benefits even if you are EU migrant in every country
Only if all data showed that the same countries actually need that same labor
Only if you werent tunnel visioned.
Scotland will most likely go to a referendum for independence again, as the one from two years ago failed only because they wanted to stay in the EU. Now nothing is keeping them in the UK especially considering they voted for BRemain. So bye bye UK
If you voted out because of "unelected politicians" then well done because we're about to get an unelected prime minister.
If you voted out because of immigration then well done, because you just lost the right of free movement too. Just wait 'til you have to get a visa to go to Glasgow or Belfast.
If you voted out because people were "stealing your jobs" then well done, because you're about to see Germany and France "steal" Nissan and a bunch of other companies who only manufacture here as a gateway to the eu market.
If you voted out because you think we'll get a great trade deal with the EEA "like Norway did", think again. Take a look around your Sainsbury's Local and try and find any fruit and veg that's grown in the UK. We need them more than they need us, and like the EEA, we'll have to accept EU policies like free movement as part of a trade deal anyway - except now we won't be able to have any say in them.
If you voted out because of vague scaremongering headlines like "Migrant Crisis" then please, feel free to remind me when it was that Syria joined the EU.
If you voted out because Farage promised £350m for the NHS, then I'm sure you'll be happy to watch him on This Morning revealing that that was a lie.
If you voted out and you're heading into retirement, then great job! Because now the working people of this nation will break their backs to afford your pension without the influx of young, economically active and skilled EU migrants.
If you voted out because you think we'll be better off, the £ has just fallen by 8% against the dollar.
And if you voted out because you love this country, prepare to see it crumble, with threats of a unified Ireland and an independent Scotland just hours after the result was confirmed.
Well done, Britain.
In b4 "Recession is necessary for Britain to purge itself for a better future"
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
i dunno how it works in europe but in brazil if someone asks for asylum and they leave brazil after the application, they insta lose it.
-edit this is a response to a couple posts in the 2nd page btw, seems out of context now
here one side of the propaganda wars, to give you an idea how wonderful it is for Brits to stay
Last edit: 26/06/2016 00:03
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qwerty67890 New Zealand. Jun 26 2016 03:24. Posts 14026
f you voted out because of "unelected politicians" then well done because we're about to get an unelected prime minister.
People don't elect a prime minister in England.
From parliament uk website.
"Can I vote for a new Prime Minister?
No. You can only vote to elect your local MP in a general election. Even if you live in the constituency represented by the current Prime Minister or the leader of another political party, you are still only voting on whether he or she will be your local MP in the next Parliament."
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JohnnyBologna United States. Jun 26 2016 06:56. Posts 1401
im guessing most the people that voted out are unhappy or tired of their miserable lives and wanted change. either that or they were tired of the EUs crap. kinda like how trump is with america lol. the irony of this world
It's just hilarious people who aren't even from the U.K. are the ones mostly angry and are demanding another crack at second leave or remain vote.
All over the web, mainstream media is pointing out how wrong they are and telling the world most of the voters "regret" their decision. If that isn't an indication of what the regressive left is I don't know what is. It's almost unreal how much control the left has and has simply reduced the discussion between racism(again) vs tolerance, since that hasn't worked they now focus on economics and how the world will end because of it.
If supposing another referendum happens and they indeed reverse the outcome (mostly again by a slim margin) what do you think WILL surely happen with the UK? Now you have half the population pissed off and feeling blatantly cheated and strongarmed by the EU to eat shit, that's exactly why they voted out in the first place.
Last edit: 26/06/2016 07:38
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Stroggoz New Zealand. Jun 26 2016 08:22. Posts 5297
Books written by economist yanis varoufakis have interesting insight into how the eu got into this mess. I have no opinion on brexit, hard to find a rational argument on the topic
One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings
On June 26 2016 05:56 JohnnyBologna wrote:
im guessing most the people that voted out are unhappy or tired of their miserable lives and wanted change. either that or they were tired of the EUs crap. kinda like how trump is with america lol. the irony of this world
Yeah I think people trend to project their life projections and simply vote for something drastically new, the sentiment is usually exploited by demagoges from the far extremes of the political espectrum, the crazy left in latin america with people like Chavez, and in the 1st world they are spiraling to a cycle of far right with Trump and in a future Europe
On June 26 2016 07:22 Stroggoz wrote:
Books written by economist yanis varoufakis have interesting insight into how the eu got into this mess. I have no opinion on brexit, hard to find a rational argument on the topic
Didn't Varoufakis and Tsipras get elected only to disappoint ? People of Greece voted basically for not getting a worse economy than they had (which in itself was ridiculous to begin with).
On June 26 2016 05:56 JohnnyBologna wrote:
im guessing most the people that voted out are unhappy or tired of their miserable lives and wanted change. either that or they were tired of the EUs crap. kinda like how trump is with america lol. the irony of this world
Yeah I think people trend to project their life projections and simply vote for something drastically new, the sentiment is usually exploited by demagoges from the far extremes of the political espectrum, the crazy left in latin america with people like Chavez, and in the 1st world they are spiraling to a cycle of far right with Trump and in a future Europe
And why do you think people suddenly started to vote for Trump, SD, Marine Le Pen etc etc all over the western world ?
Cause they give in to weakness and fear that's why. Standard human behaviour that won't ever change, that's why the global leader cycle probably won't ever end as well. It sure as hell isn't a rational decision. Obviously racism is not a factor there, they just want to pick an option that would make them feel safe. Tbh between Hilary and Trump I don't see such option, but w/e, one is an idiot the other is a criminal.
@whamm its normal, the BRexit will negatively affect global political and economical conjuncture, why would anyone be happy about it.
A new referendum probably won't happen as that can go in a never ending cycle as Farage said e.g. BRemain wins 51-49% next, and repeat.Then again Farage is well aware that if the vote is repeated BRexit wont win. And If N.Ireland and Scotland go independent the UK's economy will suffer hard. I don't see any volunteers to trigger article 50 as well
@qwerty Was a post by an english guy, the majority election system they use is kind of messy to me and a bunch of stuff make no sense, seems to be working fine for them though.
@cariadon you are a weak individual, that only talks crap and never backs his words with shit, pretty pathetic and usually not worth the time spent answering even
On June 26 2016 05:56 JohnnyBologna wrote:
im guessing most the people that voted out are unhappy or tired of their miserable lives and wanted change. either that or they were tired of the EUs crap. kinda like how trump is with america lol. the irony of this world
Yeah I think people trend to project their life projections and simply vote for something drastically new, the sentiment is usually exploited by demagoges from the far extremes of the political espectrum, the crazy left in latin america with people like Chavez, and in the 1st world they are spiraling to a cycle of far right with Trump and in a future Europe
And why do you think people suddenly started to vote for Trump, SD, Marine Le Pen etc etc all over the western world ?
People suddenly got racist over night ?
No, many people are fed up with the regressive left, many are tired of political correctness, third wave feminism, many are reasonably concerned about immigration but their leaders do not engage in these conversations, their voices silenced and bunched up together with bigots, racist etc like has happened to Sam Harris of Richard Dawkings, so all these reasonable people are so frustrated that they are willing to vote for the demagoges, and ironically end up bunching themselves with the bigots.
Thats the reason why the right is gaining momentum in the 1st world, and the last time the extreme right got a hold of the 1st world the biggest war we have seen erupted, I think we are in general past that, but who knows despise being a misanthropist I often underestimate peoples stupidity.
Harris is strongly for Hillary Baal, he hates the idea of Trump actually. He went on Rogan the last time and talked a good solid hour on why nobody should vote Trump. It was one of the best podcasts of rogan and lasted 4 hours 30minutes and had over 4million downloads. Sometimes when you go against the left these days they expect you to be right wing on every issue (coz most leftists now are like that) which is the problem I see with them.
On June 26 2016 10:25 Spitfiree wrote:
Cause they give in to weakness and fear that's why. Standard human behaviour that won't ever change, that's why the global leader cycle probably won't ever end as well. It sure as hell isn't a rational decision. Obviously racism is not a factor there, they just want to pick an option that would make them feel safe. Tbh between Hilary and Trump I don't see such option, but w/e, one is an idiot the other is a criminal.
@whamm its normal, the BRexit will negatively affect global political and economical conjuncture, why would anyone be happy about it.
A new referendum probably won't happen as that can go in a never ending cycle as Farage said e.g. BRemain wins 51-49% next, and repeat.Then again Farage is well aware that if the vote is repeated BRexit wont win. And If N.Ireland and Scotland go independent the UK's economy will suffer hard. I don't see any volunteers to trigger article 50 as well
@qwerty Was a post by an english guy, the majority election system they use is kind of messy to me and a bunch of stuff make no sense, seems to be working fine for them though.
@cariadon you are a weak individual, that only talks crap and never backs his words with shit, pretty pathetic and usually not worth the time spent answering even
On June 26 2016 05:56 JohnnyBologna wrote:
im guessing most the people that voted out are unhappy or tired of their miserable lives and wanted change. either that or they were tired of the EUs crap. kinda like how trump is with america lol. the irony of this world
Yeah I think people trend to project their life projections and simply vote for something drastically new, the sentiment is usually exploited by demagoges from the far extremes of the political espectrum, the crazy left in latin america with people like Chavez, and in the 1st world they are spiraling to a cycle of far right with Trump and in a future Europe
And why do you think people suddenly started to vote for Trump, SD, Marine Le Pen etc etc all over the western world ?
People suddenly got racist over night ?
People tend to have "extremists" attitudes when economy does not perform well (global economy has stagnated since 2008, and wealth has diminished in the global middle class (china probably the exception) and in developing/third world countries. That is the sole reason for shift in the populations political shift towards the extremes (left or right).
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
On June 26 2016 05:56 JohnnyBologna wrote:
im guessing most the people that voted out are unhappy or tired of their miserable lives and wanted change. either that or they were tired of the EUs crap. kinda like how trump is with america lol. the irony of this world
Yeah I think people trend to project their life projections and simply vote for something drastically new, the sentiment is usually exploited by demagoges from the far extremes of the political espectrum, the crazy left in latin america with people like Chavez, and in the 1st world they are spiraling to a cycle of far right with Trump and in a future Europe
And why do you think people suddenly started to vote for Trump, SD, Marine Le Pen etc etc all over the western world ?
People suddenly got racist over night ?
No, many people are fed up with the regressive left, many are tired of political correctness, third wave feminism, many are reasonably concerned about immigration but their leaders do not engage in these conversations, their voices silenced and bunched up together with bigots, racist etc like has happened to Sam Harris of Richard Dawkings, so all these reasonable people are so frustrated that they are willing to vote for the demagoges, and ironically end up bunching themselves with the bigots.
Thats the reason why the right is gaining momentum in the 1st world, and the last time the extreme right got a hold of the 1st world the biggest war we have seen erupted, I think we are in general past that, but who knows despise being a misanthropist I often underestimate peoples stupidity.
There is a difference between Sam Harris and Dawkins, Sam comes out and intentionally says controversial things loudly but then walks it back quietly. He knows his words will spread hatred towards a specific identifiable group. And the fact that he knows this and keeps doing it is why he is a despicable guy. He is practically doing same thing Bill Oriley did in regards to abortion. Calling it "tiller the baby killer" and then quietly says I condone any violence, knowing full well who his audience are.
Don't get me wrong though, I do admit a large group of people on the left are retarded. There is a valid argument to have about the systematic problem of terrorism in Islam. But they way you you do this is very important.
In US everyone is happy as long as all the prices are rising. Unless its crude oil - Marc Faber
Last edit: 26/06/2016 19:22
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Stroggoz New Zealand. Jun 26 2016 23:01. Posts 5297
On June 26 2016 07:22 Stroggoz wrote:
Books written by economist yanis varoufakis have interesting insight into how the eu got into this mess. I have no opinion on brexit, hard to find a rational argument on the topic
Didn't Varoufakis and Tsipras get elected only to disappoint ? People of Greece voted basically for not getting a worse economy than they had (which in itself was ridiculous to begin with).
Yes, and
Yes, they got elected and dissappointed their electorate. Greece never could have won without outside help. I believe yanis resigned over the agreement greece made.
One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings
1.) How many people here believe that the EU IS an anti-democratic institution?
2.) How many people here believe that the EU ISN'T an anti-democratic institution?
If you believe #1, why would you vote remain? What is your justification?
If #1 was the only reason to vote leave, it seems like a good enough reason to me and everything else is secondary.
1
soberstone United States. Jun 27 2016 04:11. Posts 2662
On June 26 2016 12:17 whamm! wrote:
Harris is strongly for Hillary Baal, he hates the idea of Trump actually. He went on Rogan the last time and talked a good solid hour on why nobody should vote Trump. It was one of the best podcasts of rogan and lasted 4 hours 30minutes and had over 4million downloads. Sometimes when you go against the left these days they expect you to be right wing on every issue (coz most leftists now are like that) which is the problem I see with them.
I'm not a Trump guy at all. That said...
Between 10:00 and 18:00 Harris goes on a diatribe about Trumps "policy" of rounding up 11,000,000 illegal immigrants and shipping them home.
Not once has Trump ever said this to my knowledge. All he ever said was "they need to go" when asked. He's obviously just playing to his base to a degree, and that the policy would be to deport anyone who gets arrested - which we are not doing currently and we obviously should be.
We need a pathway to legalization (not citizenship, never let them vote IMO, they jumped the line, atleast not for 10 years) but that means stemming the tide of immigration before you are going to get the disenfranchised populist movement to buy in and get something passed in Congress. That means actually stopping illegal immigration, which "the Wall" is really just a metaphor for as far as I'm concerned. Point is he's one of the only guys serious about it, which is a good thing. The bullshit part is when he says he was the one who brought this up. He's actually just riding the coat-tails of guys like Ted Cruz and Jeff Sessions who have been fighting the Republican and Democratic establishments who are soft on immigration. (The Republicans because they like the cheap labor and are afraid to sound racist, the Democrats because they like the easy votes)
Sam Harris seems to think Trump could get elected and be a Populist dictator. That would require a Populist Supreme Court, which is infested with activist Liberals. Never gonna happen. Because of the nature of the Courts, the only threat of an Executive Dictatorship-Style governance is currently on the Left, as we've already begun to see with Obama.
As far as the Climate Change scaremongering, I can't believe Harris buys into this shit. What exactly are we doing to curb this Climate Change that Trump would somehow ruin? I don't buy most of the Statist Climate Change arguments, the computer models have been completely wrong. I believe we contribute to Global Warming but I don't think for a second we know how much and are ever going to effectively stop if we already do. This should be the absolute last issue on anyone's concerns as far as who our next President is.
The UK isn't obligated to accept "refugees" via imposed quotas like other EU nations because it isn't a member of the Schengen agreement. The UK is however bound to comply with free movement. Freedom of movement grants other EU citizens an automatic right to live in the UK even if they've murdered someone. Being unable to choose the quality of your citizens is a problem.
There have been talks of Brussels threatening to stop Briton from sending back asylum seekers who have already lodged claims else where in Europe if Briton refused to join the quota scheme.
The EU has also considering fining nations $287,000 or €250,000 for each Asylum seeker they refuse. (Not applicable to the UK, Ireland or Denmark.) This goes to further illustrate the kind of anti-democratic tyranny the EU has become and even more reason for EU nations to regain their sovereignty whether they are in the Schengen area or not.
Brexit is a joke and please remember it's UNITED Kingdom who voted, not England.
So this union (#irony) of countries, voted to leave this union of european countries
Now Scotland is planning a referendum to leave UK in order to be able to stay in EU. Northern Ireland is considering talks to join Ireland to be able to stay in EU.
within hours of the result on Friday morning, the Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, had distanced himself from the claim that £350m of EU contributions could instead be spent on the NHS, while the Tory MEP Daniel Hannan said free movement could result in similar levels of immigration after Brexit.
Hannan said: “Frankly, if people watching think that they have voted and there is now going to be zero immigration from the EU, they are going to be disappointed.”
Worse thing is you can see they have literally NO plans at all to deal with brexit (even the pro-brexit). Shows how much thought was put in this thing.
free movement could result in similar levels of immigration after Brexit.
Hannan said: “Frankly, if people watching think that they have voted and there is now going to be zero immigration from the EU, they are going to be disappointed.”
Is free movement still applicable after Brexit? From the article: "Free movement *may not end."
Of course migration will continue, but people wanted better quality controls and a sensible intake policy. Neither of which existed before.
I don't think I even see the intake numbers changing, but the option is there.
Options are good, no?
On June 26 2016 05:56 JohnnyBologna wrote:
im guessing most the people that voted out are unhappy or tired of their miserable lives and wanted change. either that or they were tired of the EUs crap. kinda like how trump is with america lol. the irony of this world
Yeah I think people trend to project their life projections and simply vote for something drastically new, the sentiment is usually exploited by demagoges from the far extremes of the political espectrum, the crazy left in latin america with people like Chavez, and in the 1st world they are spiraling to a cycle of far right with Trump and in a future Europe
And why do you think people suddenly started to vote for Trump, SD, Marine Le Pen etc etc all over the western world ?
People suddenly got racist over night ?
No, many people are fed up with the regressive left, many are tired of political correctness, third wave feminism, many are reasonably concerned about immigration but their leaders do not engage in these conversations, their voices silenced and bunched up together with bigots, racist etc like has happened to Sam Harris of Richard Dawkings, so all these reasonable people are so frustrated that they are willing to vote for the demagoges, and ironically end up bunching themselves with the bigots.
Thats the reason why the right is gaining momentum in the 1st world, and the last time the extreme right got a hold of the 1st world the biggest war we have seen erupted, I think we are in general past that, but who knows despise being a misanthropist I often underestimate peoples stupidity.
There is a difference between Sam Harris and Dawkins, Sam comes out and intentionally says controversial things loudly but then walks it back quietly. He knows his words will spread hatred towards a specific identifiable group. And the fact that he knows this and keeps doing it is why he is a despicable guy.
I have listened to Harris talk for hours on different subjects and I never got this impression. Can you give some examples?
Peace of mind cant be bought.
1
Santafairy Korea (South). Jun 27 2016 20:31. Posts 2226
On June 25 2016 11:01 Spitfiree wrote:
Pretty well summed up
If you voted out because of "unelected politicians" then well done because we're about to get an unelected prime minister.
firstly, all prime ministers are "unelected" in the strict sense; secondly, Gordon Brown wasn't elected in the loose sense either; thirdly, that is a short-term effect of transitioning, comparing it with being the EC's bitch for the next century is simply a red herring
If you voted out because of immigration then well done, because you just lost the right of free movement too. Just wait 'til you have to get a visa to go to Glasgow or Belfast.
open to being wrong but the person who wrote that is a potato-tier shit-for-brains retard because the CTA has nothing to do with the EU
If you voted out because people were "stealing your jobs" then well done, because you're about to see Germany and France "steal" Nissan and a bunch of other companies who only manufacture here as a gateway to the eu market.
those certainly sound like valuable companies to have around, a veritable economic backbone
If you voted out because you think we'll get a great trade deal with the EEA "like Norway did", think again. Take a look around your Sainsbury's Local and try and find any fruit and veg that's grown in the UK. We need them more than they need us, and like the EEA, we'll have to accept EU policies like free movement as part of a trade deal anyway - except now we won't be able to have any say in them.
in other words, Norway is a strong country that can stand on its own by selling ice, renting out seed vaults, and selling heavy water to the Nazis, but Great Britain is shit
If you voted out because of vague scaremongering headlines like "Migrant Crisis" then please, feel free to remind me when it was that Syria joined the EU.
the European migrant crisis, which is real, is not simply about Syria - and saying Syria isn't part of the EU is slim comfort to all the people in Germany and elsewhere dealing with the EC's incompetent lack of management
If you voted out because Farage promised £350m for the NHS, then I'm sure you'll be happy to watch him on This Morning revealing that that was a lie.
oh no 350 million pounds, the equivalent value of everyone in the country skipping one fish and chips meal at once
If you voted out and you're heading into retirement, then great job! Because now the working people of this nation will break their backs to afford your pension without the influx of young, economically active and skilled EU migrants.
oh my god a country is forced to rely on training its own labor force to be skilled and contribute instead of taking in the high supply of Polish postgraduate materials science engineers to fill the gap, the end is near
If you voted out because you think we'll be better off, the £ has just fallen by 8% against the dollar.
just market alarmism because nothing substantive has even happened yet
And if you voted out because you love this country, prepare to see it crumble, with threats of a unified Ireland and an independent Scotland just hours after the result was confirmed.
and after that there might be an independent United States of America and Australia and Canada! something happened to the millennial upbringing where they thought the world map as it existed when they were a daft infant is how it's necessarily supposed to look forever
Well done, Britain.
<thumbsup>
It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen
On June 26 2016 12:17 whamm! wrote:
Harris is strongly for Hillary Baal, he hates the idea of Trump actually. He went on Rogan the last time and talked a good solid hour on why nobody should vote Trump. It was one of the best podcasts of rogan and lasted 4 hours 30minutes and had over 4million downloads. Sometimes when you go against the left these days they expect you to be right wing on every issue (coz most leftists now are like that) which is the problem I see with them.
Im aware that Harris isnt from the right and he obviously doesn like Trump, I think you misunderstood me somewhere.
On June 26 2016 05:56 JohnnyBologna wrote:
im guessing most the people that voted out are unhappy or tired of their miserable lives and wanted change. either that or they were tired of the EUs crap. kinda like how trump is with america lol. the irony of this world
Yeah I think people trend to project their life projections and simply vote for something drastically new, the sentiment is usually exploited by demagoges from the far extremes of the political espectrum, the crazy left in latin america with people like Chavez, and in the 1st world they are spiraling to a cycle of far right with Trump and in a future Europe
And why do you think people suddenly started to vote for Trump, SD, Marine Le Pen etc etc all over the western world ?
People suddenly got racist over night ?
No, many people are fed up with the regressive left, many are tired of political correctness, third wave feminism, many are reasonably concerned about immigration but their leaders do not engage in these conversations, their voices silenced and bunched up together with bigots, racist etc like has happened to Sam Harris of Richard Dawkings, so all these reasonable people are so frustrated that they are willing to vote for the demagoges, and ironically end up bunching themselves with the bigots.
Thats the reason why the right is gaining momentum in the 1st world, and the last time the extreme right got a hold of the 1st world the biggest war we have seen erupted, I think we are in general past that, but who knows despise being a misanthropist I often underestimate peoples stupidity.
There is a difference between Sam Harris and Dawkins, Sam comes out and intentionally says controversial things loudly but then walks it back quietly. He knows his words will spread hatred towards a specific identifiable group. And the fact that he knows this and keeps doing it is why he is a despicable guy. He is practically doing same thing Bill Oriley did in regards to abortion. Calling it "tiller the baby killer" and then quietly says I condone any violence, knowing full well who his audience are.
Don't get me wrong though, I do admit a large group of people on the left are retarded. There is a valid argument to have about the systematic problem of terrorism in Islam. But they way you you do this is very important.
I am not a big of Harris, however you once said that he is worse than Jihadis that kill innocents, so your opinion on the subject is worthless to me
On June 27 2016 00:37 Quest2Know wrote:
1.) How many people here believe that the EU IS an anti-democratic institution?
2.) How many people here believe that the EU ISN'T an anti-democratic institution?
If you believe #1, why would you vote remain? What is your justification?
If #1 was the only reason to vote leave, it seems like a good enough reason to me and everything else is secondary.
democracy does not mean virtue, it just means popular vote, the UK does not elect the prime minister so it isnt a true democracy.
Going for anything democratic and rejecting anything non-democratic without even listening to the merits of both sides is narrow-sighted and idiotic.
I dont know if leaving the EU is good or bad, I think its a very complex subject economically I think for having a proper opinion I would need to know all the regulations and how they specifically affect the market, how the UK economy behaved post 1993 etc.
What I know is that if you form your opinion based on "brussels dictators, muslim invasion, soverignity and democracy!" you are an idiot
In before somebody makes a very broad economic assessment that coincidentally supports their preconceived opinion
The EU will make an example of them and the UK most likely won't even exist by the time they are done with them. Even the prime endorser of the BRexit campaign is holding off. Boris Johnson wants to slow the process as much as possible and get negotiations faster. That won't happen. No one will give them a safe exit as they expected. Good luck changing your whole legislation and economic agreements with the whole continent in just 2.5 years.
Can't believe that there are people actually believing the immigration argument here. Amazing.
On June 27 2016 08:12 Quest2Know wrote:
The UK isn't obligated to accept "refugees" via imposed quotas like other EU nations because it isn't a member of the Schengen agreement. The UK is however bound to comply with free movement. Freedom of movement grants other EU citizens an automatic right to live in the UK even if they've murdered someone. Being unable to choose the quality of your citizens is a problem.
There have been talks of Brussels threatening to stop Briton from sending back asylum seekers who have already lodged claims else where in Europe if Briton refused to join the quota scheme.
The EU has also considering fining nations $287,000 or €250,000 for each Asylum seeker they refuse. (Not applicable to the UK, Ireland or Denmark.) This goes to further illustrate the kind of anti-democratic tyranny the EU has become and even more reason for EU nations to regain their sovereignty whether they are in the Schengen area or not.
First no, the UK isnt obliged to take refugees quota, but considering they are a part of a union and even a country like mine which also isnt a part of Schengen agrees to accept refugees and a world top economy cant accept 15,000 people, around which was their quota, then they are fucking twats.
Second, what you are implying is that the UK has no prevention methods towards people coming inside the country, which is a joke. And no what do you mean, they have to let someone in, even if they are a murderer? Pretty sure they d be in jail. Quality of life of citizens's main problem sure as hell isn't coming from migrants .
Third, the 250k euro fine proposal was obviously done by a braindead commission and would never have passed, sadly every government has laughable people in it. The free travel visa for turks would also never pass, those are just part of the terms of the agreement with Erdogan, which the EU actually needs to make look like is going to happen for as long as possible, considering Erdogan can flood the whole continent with refugees with the wave of a finger.
Last edit: 28/06/2016 07:36
1
soberstone United States. Jun 28 2016 07:43. Posts 2662
On June 28 2016 06:19 Spitfiree wrote:
The EU will make an example of them and the UK most likely won't even exist by the time they are done with them. Even the prime endorser of the BRexit campaign is holding off. Boris Johnson wants to slow the process as much as possible and get negotiations faster. That won't happen. No one will give them a safe exit as they expected. Good luck changing your whole legislation and economic agreements with the whole continent in just 2.5 years.
Can't believe that there are people actually believing the immigration argument here. Amazing.
I hope atleast from a conceptual standpoint you understand this:
The notion of a group of un-elected and therefore un-removable lawmakers (bureaucrats) making broad-brushed regulations that are supposed to benefit 27 nations with vastly different economic systems, demographics, agendas, cultures, and value-systems is simply a retarded idea. I don't believe that's why the EU was not designed, but that's what it's become.
There are indeed migrant quotas for each member nation (despite your insistence that immigration has nothing to do with this) and penalties for nations who refuse to meet their quotas. It is ridiculous broad-bushed laws like this which were inevitable in such a stupid system that made the people of the UK, who were never really warm to the EU, finally say enough.
Whether you believe in democratic government or not, the EU has rendered the people powerless over their own future as a nation, and that is a shitty thing. I don't subscribe to pure democracy as a form of government, but governments should be democratic in spirit, representing the majority's wants (whether these wants are stupid to some Elitist is irrelevant here) while preserving everyone's basic rights.
As far as the EU "making an example of them" - good luck, pretty sure they need to keep trade as open as possible as they are already doing terribly and other countries are calling for referendums as we speak. The last thing the EU needs is a trade war. The people with influence aren't as petty as you when their dollars are on the line.
On June 28 2016 06:19 Spitfiree wrote:
The EU will make an example of them and the UK most likely won't even exist by the time they are done with them. Even the prime endorser of the BRexit campaign is holding off. Boris Johnson wants to slow the process as much as possible and get negotiations faster. That won't happen. No one will give them a safe exit as they expected. Good luck changing your whole legislation and economic agreements with the whole continent in just 2.5 years.
Can't believe that there are people actually believing the immigration argument here. Amazing.
Yes, I'm familiar with that story as well. The EU is acting petulant toward dissent and forcing the UK into a very unfavorable position instead of handling this dissolution with class and dignity. All the more reason to leave.
On June 28 2016 06:19 Spitfiree wrote:
First no, the UK isnt obliged to take refugees quota, but considering they are a part of a union and even a country like mine which also isnt a part of Schengen agrees to accept refugees and a world top economy cant accept 15,000 people, around which was their quota, then they are fucking twats.
Second, what you are implying is that the UK has no prevention methods towards people coming inside the country, which is a joke. And no what do you mean, they have to let someone in, even if they are a murderer? Pretty sure they d be in jail. Quality of life of citizens's main problem sure as hell isn't coming from migrants .
Third, the 250k euro fine proposal was obviously done by a braindead commission and would never have passed, sadly every government has laughable people in it. The free travel visa for turks would also never pass, those are just part of the terms of the agreement with Erdogan, which the EU actually needs to make look like is going to happen for as long as possible, considering Erdogan can flood the whole continent with refugees with the wave of a finger.
I never said that the UK is obligated to take refugee quotas. The UK does accept refugees, but they're not forced to.
If you don't feel that immigration is a primary issue, then what is?
On June 27 2016 00:37 Quest2Know wrote:
1.) How many people here believe that the EU IS an anti-democratic institution?
2.) How many people here believe that the EU ISN'T an anti-democratic institution?
If you believe #1, why would you vote remain? What is your justification?
If #1 was the only reason to vote leave, it seems like a good enough reason to me and everything else is secondary.
democracy does not mean virtue, it just means popular vote, the UK does not elect the prime minister so it isnt a true democracy.
Going for anything democratic and rejecting anything non-democratic without even listening to the merits of both sides is narrow-sighted and idiotic.
Technically, to my knowledge, no country is a "true democracy." Some countries are more democratic than others.
The UK holds a General Election once every 5 years. This isn't democratic enough for you? Unlike the EU, the UK Prime Minister is held accountable by the people over his/her actions.
I've listened to both sides, and what I've read coming from Jean-Claude Juncker is appalling. Does he seem like someone you'd want to entrust the well-being of your country to?
1.) On Greece's economic meltdown in 2011
"When it becomes serious, you have to lie."
2.) On EU monetary policy
"I'm ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious ... I am for secret, dark debates" "Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?,”
3.) On French referendum over EU constitution
“If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue’,”
4.) On the introduction of the euro
"We decide on something, leave it lying around, and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back."
5.) On eurozone economic policy and democracy
“We all know what to do, we just don't know how to get re-elected after we've done it”
The campaign claim: Immigration levels could be controlled if the UK left the EU. This would relieve pressure on public services.
The current claim: Immigration levels can't be radically reduced by leaving the EU. Fears about immigration did not influence the way people voted.
Reality Check verdict: During the campaign, some Leave campaigners sent a clear message that the referendum was about controlling immigration. Some are now being more nuanced, saying the UK's decision to leave the EU would not guarantee a significant decrease in immigration levels.
Immigration was the key issue of the EU referendum campaign, and Vote Leave's focus on it was a key part of their strategy.
One of the main claims of the campaign centred around control of immigration levels
Contributions to the EU budget
The campaign claim: We send £350m a week to Brussels, which could be spent on the NHS instead.
The current claim: The claim was a mistake, and we will not be able to spend that much extra on the NHS.
Reality Check verdict: Some of those who campaigned for Leave are now distancing themselves from this claim. Some have gone as far as admitting that it had been a mistake.
The single market
The campaign claim: Some on the Leave side suggested the UK does not need preferential access to the single market.
The current claim: The UK should get preferential access to the single market but will not have to accept freedom of movement to get it.
Reality Check verdict: The position has shifted from claims the UK could trade under World Trade Organisation rules to one which suggests the UK will continue to have preferential access to the single market, but at the same time having some control over immigration levels.
On June 28 2016 05:40 Baalim wrote:
I dont know if leaving the EU is good or bad, I think its a very complex subject economically I think for having a proper opinion I would need to know all the regulations and how they specifically affect the market, how the UK economy behaved post 1993 etc.
I agree.
I believe this is an insanely complex issue with so many variables. And I'd imagine even the most knowledgeable and qualified people can only operate on some wide margin probabilities in most issues. That is what makes this referendum so crazy to me.
Whether someone was 'for' or 'against' it's really worth acknowledging that whatever you picked is better in some areas (can be jobs, groups of people, national security or even in terms of intangible values you hold dear), but it is certainly worse in some others. That's why it is worth to try to be very precise in what ways this might improve or worsen something.
Peace of mind cant be bought.
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KeyleK_uk United Kingdom. Jul 01 2016 13:01. Posts 1687
On June 28 2016 06:19 Spitfiree wrote:
The EU will make an example of them and the UK most likely won't even exist by the time they are done with them. Even the prime endorser of the BRexit campaign is holding off. Boris Johnson wants to slow the process as much as possible and get negotiations faster. That won't happen. No one will give them a safe exit as they expected. Good luck changing your whole legislation and economic agreements with the whole continent in just 2.5 years.
Can't believe that there are people actually believing the immigration argument here. Amazing.
On June 27 2016 08:12 Quest2Know wrote:
The UK isn't obligated to accept "refugees" via imposed quotas like other EU nations because it isn't a member of the Schengen agreement. The UK is however bound to comply with free movement. Freedom of movement grants other EU citizens an automatic right to live in the UK even if they've murdered someone. Being unable to choose the quality of your citizens is a problem.
There have been talks of Brussels threatening to stop Briton from sending back asylum seekers who have already lodged claims else where in Europe if Briton refused to join the quota scheme.
The EU has also considering fining nations $287,000 or €250,000 for each Asylum seeker they refuse. (Not applicable to the UK, Ireland or Denmark.) This goes to further illustrate the kind of anti-democratic tyranny the EU has become and even more reason for EU nations to regain their sovereignty whether they are in the Schengen area or not.
First no, the UK isnt obliged to take refugees quota, but considering they are a part of a union and even a country like mine which also isnt a part of Schengen agrees to accept refugees and a world top economy cant accept 15,000 people, around which was their quota, then they are fucking twats.
Second, what you are implying is that the UK has no prevention methods towards people coming inside the country, which is a joke. And no what do you mean, they have to let someone in, even if they are a murderer? Pretty sure they d be in jail. Quality of life of citizens's main problem sure as hell isn't coming from migrants .
Third, the 250k euro fine proposal was obviously done by a braindead commission and would never have passed, sadly every government has laughable people in it. The free travel visa for turks would also never pass, those are just part of the terms of the agreement with Erdogan, which the EU actually needs to make look like is going to happen for as long as possible, considering Erdogan can flood the whole continent with refugees with the wave of a finger.
Hi Spitfree, I'm from the UK and disagree with alot of what you said, I'm not saying the other people are right but you are wrong imo on key issues, heres two examples.
Compare the FTSE 100 to DAX 30 and CAC 40, notice how the latter two haven't recovered more than half the way to where they were and the ftse is 3% up on pre-brexit when people thought it was quite like a remain vote would occur. What I am trying to say is the EU(or the German and French industries) can't afford to make an example of the UK, and that is reflected in the stock market. Yes sterling still took a beating, but a large amount of that will be because people thought the remain result had occurred and everyone in the financial sector 'bet' on it being remain and they were wrong. We'll see because neither of us can be as sure as you think you are about this outcome but I doubt they can afford to make an example of us.
My second example is Scotland leaving: I really don't believe it will happen. I know Scottish people who want independence but the reality of it is so much more insane than the ideal, especially since the last referendum in Scotland. When the Scottish National Party campaigned for independence in the last referendum they were campaigning on their economy being based upon the oil in the North Sea and staying in the pound, probably. Well, I think it'll be fair to say it will be difficult for them to keep the pound if they left the UK now and I think oil is less than 40% the price of what it was at their previous referendum. Also theoretically England has claims to some % of that oil, it's in English waters so that'll be another argument bought up if it occurs (which it wont). Also the turnout in the referndum was i think about 69 in scotland vs i think 84 in the independencereferendum so it is likely more of those people would vote to stay in the UK than leave (closer to the status quo) so the referendum in Scotland was 63% stay (EU) 37% leave, it just takes 1/4 of the people who voted to stay in the EU to stay in the UK and there is likely a larger turnout of people voting remain. THEREFORE I believe when Nicola Sturgeon (leader of SNP) realises she wont win a referendum she will shut up and never call one.
Germany doesn't want to run this show by itself and the people of Europe don't want Germany to run this show by themselves. The EU and people spouting the nonsense you're shouting is whats pushing people towards the right. The problem is Spitfree if I was in your position I would probably think a long similar lines. The EU is a super state and redistribution of wealth has to occur in a state between the richest and the poorest and in the long run that is good for everyone economic theory tells us. However this model is not accurate because the EU is an undemocratic, over expensive pile of shit. Also the sheer amount spent by corporations lobbying in Brussels is astronomical. The auditors haven't signed off on their books forever. When you're from one of the least (the?) wealthy nations in that bloc the potential downside doesn't worry you so much, however when you are from one of the wealthier nations it does. I am sorry that I still believe in nation states, I'm sure one day they will be obsolete but that day is not today.
I would like to say that I appreciate your interest in this and I would like to discuss it further but I really don't believe that you can come up with many rational arguments that this is bad for the UK unless 1) it breaks up, 2) we get made an 'example' of which to be honest if you guys make an example of us like this I would argue we weren't very good friends any way. Also with our 70 bn trade deficiet with the EU it would hurt the EU more or 3) something happens to the City of London.
You can't base your first argument on the note of indices in a short run in a speculation based period. Let alone compare economies based on that. All of those will be evened out eventually. The real market hit will come when(if ... ) article 50 is submitted.
Obviously no side would benefit by cutting relations, even countries like mine where UK firms out source their IT departments and that alone would be a huge hit on both sides. Sadly politics don't run on theories that are somewhat proven to work, but on many other braindead factors.
Trade deficit's influence post BRexit is unpredictable for someone like me with an information only given by the media, and I'd suggest its the same about you,unless you're working in such sphere. But honestly if you think that the EU won't find another market to replace you with would be naive. Plus its not like the relations post BRexit would be not trading at all. If you were in as good situation as you thought you were then Farage wouldn't be leading an offense in the EU Parliament asking for trading agreements and pointing out Canada and Australia have already reached out to them. Canada and Australia, what a surprise :D
City of London will be indeed damaged. All those financial companies are working on the market expense free, because of the EU membership. How do you think 200+ banks would be affected when that is no longer the case? It wont just affect the UK or the EU , it will affect the world economy.
Prediction of Scotland's next would be hard in the current situation. There will be a freeze of the situation until you get a new PM. Problem with that is the markets will work in a even more uncertain environment.
The EU has a lot of things to change, as i've said they have not implemented any major reform in at least a decade, and they have no right to be as purposeless as they are in the current state of Europe as a continent.
What the UK has done however, is what your nation has always done history wise. Pick up their shit and leave the moment a situation is intimidating and thats what really pisses me off ( that and the fact that again a bunch of people managed to brainwash the masses into believing something utterly retarded - the immigration that is ). There is certainly a way to get the whole structure going without taking radical actions. And yes I do believe in wealth redistribution and so would you and the theory would work if the EU actually worked, which is not the case at the moment. Their whole work flow proccess is sloppy and slow to say the least. And still I do not see how a BRexit would be a positive change for anyone in the future.
One good thing (and you've somewhat hinted to it) that might come out of this is the TTIP failing. Cause otherwise not Brexit nor the EU will matter, the corporations will lock everything up in a very "legal" way.
nah markets are doing fine. 9% down after so much fear being peddled out there is fucking peanuts. globally greed has taken over
in before markets going to collapse soon lol pussies
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traxamillion United States. Jul 03 2016 05:45. Posts 10468
On June 24 2016 20:31 DooMeR wrote:
Can the people who are happy about this result explain why they are? I can only see this as a bad thing from the little I know.
Very simple.
#1 Most important - Britain can now close their borders and stem the tide of refugees which they would have had to accept as a matter of EU policy
#2 Britains economy now not run by Bureaucratic regulators out of Brussel
The main counterpoints
1. Somehow wanting closed borders is Xenophobic (retarded)
2. The economic counterpoint is that Britain's economy benefits from the interdependent economy of a larger, more dynamic European Super-Economy which would be true if the EU weren't filled with Socialist Welfare States like Greece and France that countries like Britain and Germany are subsidizing.
traxamillion United States. Jul 03 2016 09:21. Posts 10468
On June 28 2016 21:59 Mortensen8 wrote:
Rofl is this real? Farage is hilarious and this clip just shows the decadence and degradation of what was arguable a decent ideal. (how did that hot 20something a couple rows behind farage get that job btw?) Moving towards the EU in the first place was likely a mistake. Huge super national government only works if people become less divided on a much more personal scale. Just making a huge sprawling monster of a gov is not the way to create the GTO ratio of cooperation and competition a society needs. I would imagine future global govs would be quite minimalist and likely decentralized. Hopefully this can happen in a more enlightened, cooperative, "spiritual" future. As is there will be those who vastly outcompete massive groups of other people leading to intirinsic societal instability.
The same reasons we need government in the first place right now are the why they become untenable after a certain size or after an ascension of the wrong people.
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KeyleK_uk United Kingdom. Jul 03 2016 14:12. Posts 1687
On July 01 2016 23:11 Spitfiree wrote:
You can't base your first argument on the note of indices in a short run in a speculation based period. Let alone compare economies based on that. All of those will be evened out eventually. The real market hit will come when(if ... ) article 50 is submitted.
Obviously no side would benefit by cutting relations, even countries like mine where UK firms out source their IT departments and that alone would be a huge hit on both sides. Sadly politics don't run on theories that are somewhat proven to work, but on many other braindead factors.
Trade deficit's influence post BRexit is unpredictable for someone like me with an information only given by the media, and I'd suggest its the same about you,unless you're working in such sphere. But honestly if you think that the EU won't find another market to replace you with would be naive. Plus its not like the relations post BRexit would be not trading at all. If you were in as good situation as you thought you were then Farage wouldn't be leading an offense in the EU Parliament asking for trading agreements and pointing out Canada and Australia have already reached out to them. Canada and Australia, what a surprise :D
City of London will be indeed damaged. All those financial companies are working on the market expense free, because of the EU membership. How do you think 200+ banks would be affected when that is no longer the case? It wont just affect the UK or the EU , it will affect the world economy.
Prediction of Scotland's next would be hard in the current situation. There will be a freeze of the situation until you get a new PM. Problem with that is the markets will work in a even more uncertain environment.
The EU has a lot of things to change, as i've said they have not implemented any major reform in at least a decade, and they have no right to be as purposeless as they are in the current state of Europe as a continent.
What the UK has done however, is what your nation has always done history wise. Pick up their shit and leave the moment a situation is intimidating and thats what really pisses me off ( that and the fact that again a bunch of people managed to brainwash the masses into believing something utterly retarded - the immigration that is ). There is certainly a way to get the whole structure going without taking radical actions. And yes I do believe in wealth redistribution and so would you and the theory would work if the EU actually worked, which is not the case at the moment. Their whole work flow proccess is sloppy and slow to say the least. And still I do not see how a BRexit would be a positive change for anyone in the future.
One good thing (and you've somewhat hinted to it) that might come out of this is the TTIP failing. Cause otherwise not Brexit nor the EU will matter, the corporations will lock everything up in a very "legal" way.
Thank you for your reply Spitfree, I can't disagree with very much of it at all. Pretty much what you said in your last paragraph, redistribution of wealth theory I believe in it too. I just really struggled to believe the way the EU was going it would ever get any better.
The only thing I would like to say is if this speculation period actually looked bad for the ftse (100 at least) it would be brought up as an example of how this is so bad as speculation is saying...
and in relation to Scotland the media outlets are disagreeing heavily on what is going on but for a number of reasons my instincts are that another referendum wont happen, and if it did I don't think they would vote to leave the UK. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-36693048 bbc and the Scottish Herald kind of contradict one another here (basically read in isolation you wouldn't think either of the other could exist) http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14...__could_be_a_Greece_without_the_sun_/
basically as you said it's a complete mess and perhaps your guess is as good as mine about how things will continue from here.
He and Boris were leading the brexit campaign.
Not saying brexit is good/bad itself but what is very bad is: no plan at all to manage this brexit (short or mid/long term).
Now they are all standing down because don't want to deal with the current mess.
You might enjoy Dan Carlin's point of view in his common sense #307, where he suggests brexit resulted from working class dissatisfaction with the political system in general rather than simply being an immigration issue. He points out that wealthy people, condescendingly reducing the issue to racism, might have fueled the anger and made people vote for whatever rich people disagreed with.
I have a genuine question about that. Isn't a really large % of the working class in the UK made of actual immigrants? If that is so, that would be even a bigger defender to his point of view, regarding of the first impression my question leaves.
^^ because they want to keep their jobs. just like in mexico you'd think everybody who's a legal immigrant is against trump but you'd be surprised how many support the idea to keep illegals out just so that their jobs would not be in jeopardy, again people always assume a lot of things and think legal immigrants and illegals are lumped together and think as one whole.
btw, im not for trump and think he is retarded as well, im also not a "racist" who thinks all muslims are terrorists. but yeah since that would be the automatic prejudice against anybody who leans towards opposing liberal views nowadays, I try to exaggerate my position for entertainment purposes
On July 07 2016 21:56 Spitfiree wrote:
I have a genuine question about that. Isn't a really large % of the working class in the UK made of actual immigrants? If that is so, that would be even a bigger defender to his point of view, regarding of the first impression my question leaves.
Basically he found a loophole and is technically able to apply for leader of UKIP (Party who led the "leave" campaign)
Reasons he listed as to why he would be the perfect fit for leading UKIP:
‘Loss of income due to Romanians’- referring to a fellow poker player who beat him in the past; ‘knowledge of the immigration system’- because of his half Lithuanian, half Australian descent; and my own personal favourite ‘Leaving after I have won’- a mantra that many Brexiteers have lived by in the aftermath of the EU referendum.
On July 08 2016 01:15 whamm! wrote:
^^ because they want to keep their jobs. just like in mexico you'd think everybody who's a legal immigrant is against trump but you'd be surprised how many support the idea to keep illegals out just so that their jobs would not be in jeopardy, again people always assume a lot of things and think legal immigrants and illegals are lumped together and think as one whole.
btw, im not for trump and think he is retarded as well, im also not a "racist" who thinks all muslims are terrorists. but yeah since that would be the automatic prejudice against anybody who leans towards opposing liberal views nowadays, I try to exaggerate my position for entertainment purposes
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
well that's human nature, where jobs are scarce people get selfish. automation, globallization and the global inequity of wealth contributes to this more and more each day. people need to develop skills to keep up problem is they have no clue how, in the next 10 years with internet-of-things going full blast jobs will be very hard to come by.
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Santafairy Korea (South). Jul 08 2016 18:01. Posts 2226
On July 08 2016 01:15 whamm! wrote:
^^ because they want to keep their jobs. just like in mexico you'd think everybody who's a legal immigrant is against trump but you'd be surprised how many support the idea to keep illegals out just so that their jobs would not be in jeopardy, again people always assume a lot of things and think legal immigrants and illegals are lumped together and think as one whole.
btw, im not for trump and think he is retarded as well, im also not a "racist" who thinks all muslims are terrorists. but yeah since that would be the automatic prejudice against anybody who leans towards opposing liberal views nowadays, I try to exaggerate my position for entertainment purposes
if immigrants aren't taking jobs it's because they're unemployed sitting around collecting welfare and peddling drugs and trafficking people
It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen
On July 07 2016 21:56 Spitfiree wrote:
I have a genuine question about that. Isn't a really large % of the working class in the UK made of actual immigrants? If that is so, that would be even a bigger defender to his point of view, regarding of the first impression my question leaves.
On July 08 2016 01:15 whamm! wrote:
^^ because they want to keep their jobs. just like in mexico you'd think everybody who's a legal immigrant is against trump but you'd be surprised how many support the idea to keep illegals out just so that their jobs would not be in jeopardy, again people always assume a lot of things and think legal immigrants and illegals are lumped together and think as one whole.
btw, im not for trump and think he is retarded as well, im also not a "racist" who thinks all muslims are terrorists. but yeah since that would be the automatic prejudice against anybody who leans towards opposing liberal views nowadays, I try to exaggerate my position for entertainment purposes
if immigrants aren't taking jobs it's because they're unemployed sitting around collecting welfare and peddling drugs and trafficking people
You forgot the murder rapists
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
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Santafairy Korea (South). Jul 08 2016 19:16. Posts 2226
On July 08 2016 01:15 whamm! wrote:
^^ because they want to keep their jobs. just like in mexico you'd think everybody who's a legal immigrant is against trump but you'd be surprised how many support the idea to keep illegals out just so that their jobs would not be in jeopardy, again people always assume a lot of things and think legal immigrants and illegals are lumped together and think as one whole.
btw, im not for trump and think he is retarded as well, im also not a "racist" who thinks all muslims are terrorists. but yeah since that would be the automatic prejudice against anybody who leans towards opposing liberal views nowadays, I try to exaggerate my position for entertainment purposes
if immigrants aren't taking jobs it's because they're unemployed sitting around collecting welfare and peddling drugs and trafficking people
You forgot the murder rapists
It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen
United States. Jun 24 2016 18:22. Posts 2734
