Interesting Hand between Reinkemeier and Seiver

Hand from the WSOP Big One for One Drop and aired yesterday:



I don't know whether Seiver is douchy at the end or fishing for information.

Sievert is a boss at all games and destroyed the German here with the chat. Scott likes to chat. I thought siever would sit still the whole time but I think he gets called if he does. Pay jumps were massive so the bet puts a ton of pressure obviously.

Scott really did think he had less than aa thus the chat at the end. Wouldn't be the first time he said some just what he thinks or some douchey shit.

Also DNegs did him a big favor calling the clock after an appropriate time because they are boys. He was probably folding anyways but that helped.

Why the fuck would he fold.. what?! Underepped his hand big time and villain's range w that lane is crushed

Yea I don't get this fold either but the speech from Seiver was pretty good I thought. Personally I think calling clock here is fine even though yes it's a massive tourney, everyone on the FT was relatively shallow stacked and he was 10 minutes into the tank.

My man put him on pocket 2s or pocket 4s raising from ep. I dont really get sievers shove, couldnt he be shoving into a made flush?

Raising pocket 2s or pockets 4s 9man with short stack - does he also believe that Seiver is a huge whale?
And yes the only thing that he s repping that beats his AA is exactly a flush considering the board the combos are really low amount and he could be doin that with tons of other hands that have Ac for instance, other than QQ & JJ i dont see Seiver having sets

On August 14 2014 11:41 JosephCalgary wrote: My man put him on pocket 2s or pocket 4s raising from ep. I dont really get sievers shove, couldnt he be shoving into a made flush?

He could be shoving into a flush but not likely. More like siever turned outs and decided to bluff out vs a weak range.

Keep in mind newest and Solomon were still at the table and the German assumes he has a huge edge over them. Folding turn he maintains a decent stack and can own the fish and try to climb the pay ladder which was EXTREMELY top heavy.

Siever started the hand with less than 20 big blinds. Its completely unacceptable to fold aces at any point in the hand when stacks are this short except if 4 damn clubs on the board. Dude theres 3 clubs there, not 4. I understand the 10 minute decision with 4 clubs on the board but not with 3.
I really like the flat call with Aces preflop because your range looks so incredibly weak when you call. And hes just going to attack that weak range. If dude was tight opener from EP Id 3bet, but vs a loose goose like siever way better to flat call and slow play.
I mean its not 100% siever is shipping a flush on the turn, he could do a smaller bet and then allin the river. That allin bet is a big bet to call, why would he shove a flush when u know its going to get a lot of folds.

pretty absurdly bad fold

lol tournament players

i would usually agree lol tourney players but renkemeir plays nothing but high rollers and plays big cash as well. He is a good player and obviously knew his fold was non-standard/bad. Just tried to hero fold and failed but you gotta look at the situation also its not like this was cash. He got kinda phased when siever started talking and leveling him with dat confidence

Siever could have KK and play it like that for value so his aa fold is bad again but if you listen to renkemeir he incorrectly assumed he was way behind (2pair-flushes) or somewhat ahead of a combo draw like K10 with a club

dat 11 bb shove

salomon's face after the AA gets turned up is priceless too

Seems like he wanted to make a hero fold in a big tournament on TV. I was also not a fan of Negreanu's hero call with KQ. Just all the table talk and body language leading up to the plays it seemed like both players were relishing the idea of being a hero.

On August 14 2014 18:20 traxamillion wrote: Siever could have KK and play it like that for value so his aa fold is bad again but if you listen to renkemeir he incorrectly assumed he was way behind (2pair-flushes) or somewhat ahead of a combo draw like K10 with a club

well obvioulsy he thought he was behind otherwise he wouldnt have folded, its still a terrible fold regardless of what he thinks

On August 14 2014 19:54 NMcNasty wrote: Seems like he wanted to make a hero fold in a big tournament on TV. I was also not a fan of Negreanu's hero call with KQ. Just all the table talk and body language leading up to the plays it seemed like both players were relishing the idea of being a hero.

Interesting hand as well

reinkemeier should have just bought me into the 1 drop

On August 15 2014 05:43 Highcard wrote: reinkemeier should have just bought me into the 1 drop

I think you should talk to Reinkemeier's backers ;-)

>when he tells him that he's either got kj or kt
>the dude starts breathing faster once he's found out

reinkemeier had backers? oh that hurts so much. Its really unlikely siever is raising low suited connector hands from early position with sub 20bb. What hand is he scared of that beats AA?

He wouldnt really like to flip either. He was either way behind against sets/flushes/2p, a slight favourite against combo draw like K10 with 1 club or a favourite against complete air. Id say the latter is the smallest % of Seivers range and he invested like 6(?) bbs into the pot up until the turn? Considering the payjumps/2 fish still in the game/stack left if folding, I wouldnt say it was that bad.

That's pretty much what I figured his reasoning was as well Napoleon although I don't really think it's a good play.

JCalgary, every pro there had backers except maybe DN. who did u figure was putting up 1 million on their own other than the wealthy amateurs?

From what I hear the winner Colman had 10% of himself for example.

obviously a terrible fold if i have the action right.

flats AA from bb, c/c 1 street, c/f 2nd street Q25cc Jc?
..?

he should just 3bet if hes gonna play so awful post flop. seiver has to assume his bb range is wider than other spot ranges, therefore will barrel this board more often. obv allin is scary but you'd hvae to expect seiver to be jamming alot of his AcXx combos, along with betting smaller with made flushes or even checking nut flushes potentially. really weird fold, seiver musta gotten into his head along with the stakes and froze his brain

On August 15 2014 17:44 MezmerizePLZ wrote: obviously a terrible fold if i have the action right. flats AA from bb, c/c 1 street, c/f 2nd street Q25cc Jc? ..?

you got it right

Also the more i think about it, the more i like Seiver's shove there considering how Renkemeier played his aces..

On August 15 2014 17:47 MezmerizePLZ wrote: he should just 3bet if hes gonna play so awful post flop. seiver has to assume his bb range is wider than other spot ranges, therefore will barrel this board more often. obv allin is scary but you'd hvae to expect seiver to be jamming alot of his AcXx combos, along with betting smaller with made flushes or even checking nut flushes potentially. really weird fold, seiver musta gotten into his head along with the stakes and froze his brain

the worst part of it, the turn jam was ~ 1 spr

On August 15 2014 18:32 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On August 15 2014 17:44 MezmerizePLZ wrote: obviously a terrible fold if i have the action right. flats AA from bb, c/c 1 street, c/f 2nd street Q25cc Jc? ..? you got it right Also the more i think about it, the more i like Seiver's shove there considering how Renkemeier played his aces..

seiver had no expectation of AA and was not trying to fold out AA, he even said it after waiting 10 minutes. I expect 100% his outburst at the end was entirely to get rein to show his monster time down, again, but as you see playing AA this way is entirely nonsensical.

He slow played AA and as a strategy, he should only do that if he expects seiver to stack off lighter/wider bluff range. Having seiver shove turn is the entire strategy and here he is folding. It is a horrific play by rein at 1 spr.

On August 15 2014 18:32 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On August 15 2014 17:44 MezmerizePLZ wrote: obviously a terrible fold if i have the action right. flats AA from bb, c/c 1 street, c/f 2nd street Q25cc Jc? ..? you got it right Also the more i think about it, the more i like Seiver's shove there considering how Renkemeier played his aces..

his play with KT is standard with 1 pot sized bet behind

what an idiot

if he's so scared then why doesn't he just raise flop and get it in?

I dunno what history these two have playing each other, but Reinkemeier decided to follow his read instead of his plan, which turned out to be a disaster. It would be interesting if he comments about the hand and what was going on in his mind at that time.

On August 15 2014 17:47 MezmerizePLZ wrote: he should just 3bet if hes gonna play so awful post flop. seiver has to assume his bb range is wider than other spot ranges, therefore will barrel this board more often. obv allin is scary but you'd hvae to expect seiver to be jamming alot of his AcXx combos, along with betting smaller with made flushes or even checking nut flushes potentially. really weird fold, seiver musta gotten into his head along with the stakes and froze his brain

DING

flatting aa pf so that you lose less when you inevitably fold the hand on a later street is a pretty standard live thing

i think its a somewhat interesting fold. Like hes thinking we can assume that Seiver of all people is not going to airball off his tourny here and basically says that the only way you havent got me beat is if you have KT or K9 because he believed in this stage of a million dollar tournament no hand shoves for value that doesnt have him beat, ie kq isn't shoving that turn and AQ is extremelly unlikely also would he shove turn with AsQx, probably not, probably a diffent line somehow. He expects KT to shove turn and be in his range sometimes but feels it is outweighed by the times he is beat, even then it is going to have a flush draw also (esp if K9) so hes not got the had locked where he can just be drawing dead when he calls turn.

Obviously he is slightly wrong and the fold is almost definitely incorrect because there is always the chance your calculations to your opponents tendencies are wrong and that in this spot i think he overreps in his head the amout of hands that Seiver shows up with that are going to be better than AA at that point in the hand w/ that action

Its interesting because its not like rankeinemeir (lolsp?) was surprised to see KT he thought that would shove he just didnt think anything else would semi-bluff shove and perhaps he was correct with the game flow and the way Seiver is likely to approach this tourament.

^^ think the biggest issue hre is that he is treating it as a televised 1 million buy in tourney instead of lol i have 20bb with aces

On August 15 2014 22:54 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On August 15 2014 18:32 Spitfiree wrote:   On August 15 2014 17:44 MezmerizePLZ wrote: obviously a terrible fold if i have the action right. flats AA from bb, c/c 1 street, c/f 2nd street Q25cc Jc? ..? you got it right Also the more i think about it, the more i like Seiver's shove there considering how Renkemeier played his aces.. his play with KT is standard with 1 pot sized bet behind

yeah but im a donk :D
and ye Highcard i know

I thought the K10 shove was borderline awful, but the fold of AA was a lot a lot a loooot worse.

He breaks down the hand perfectly out loud, and he is right. The fact I dislike the K10 shove is because once you break down the hand like it was done, you come up with a lot of those type of hands (and you are gonna have bottom range of those hands) and it's a call often and your equity is gonna suck.

No idea how he managed to fold, mostlikely like said, because of the 1M buyin, TV, payouts, etc.

awesome chat by scott. still terrible fold, but tobias is definitely a boss and probably better than anyone who posts on this site.

ya im sure hes a sicko, and if this hand happens and plays out the same a few hours into day 1 of a 1k wsop on an outer table then suddenly this hand becomes interesting but this just seems like a big stage choke plain and simple

On August 20 2014 06:48 KeyleK_uk wrote: i think its a somewhat interesting fold. Like hes thinking we can assume that Seiver of all people is not going to airball off his tourny here and basically says that the only way you havent got me beat is if you have KT or K9 because he believed in this stage of a million dollar tournament no hand shoves for value that doesnt have him beat, ie kq isn't shoving that turn and AQ is extremelly unlikely also would he shove turn with AsQx, probably not, probably a diffent line somehow. He expects KT to shove turn and be in his range sometimes but feels it is outweighed by the times he is beat, even then it is going to have a flush draw also (esp if K9) so hes not got the had locked where he can just be drawing dead when he calls turn. Obviously he is slightly wrong and the fold is almost definitely incorrect because there is always the chance your calculations to your opponents tendencies are wrong and that in this spot i think he overreps in his head the amout of hands that Seiver shows up with that are going to be better than AA at that point in the hand w/ that action Its interesting because its not like rankeinemeir (lolsp?) was surprised to see KT he thought that would shove he just didnt think anything else would semi-bluff shove and perhaps he was correct with the game flow and the way Seiver is likely to approach this tourament.

Except that any Ac does that too and if you are going to fold to pot sized turn bet on a draw heavy board you are better off just raising the flop, its not even close

On August 20 2014 23:58 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2014 06:48 KeyleK_uk wrote: i think its a somewhat interesting fold. Like hes thinking we can assume that Seiver of all people is not going to airball off his tourny here and basically says that the only way you havent got me beat is if you have KT or K9 because he believed in this stage of a million dollar tournament no hand shoves for value that doesnt have him beat, ie kq isn't shoving that turn and AQ is extremelly unlikely also would he shove turn with AsQx, probably not, probably a diffent line somehow. He expects KT to shove turn and be in his range sometimes but feels it is outweighed by the times he is beat, even then it is going to have a flush draw also (esp if K9) so hes not got the had locked where he can just be drawing dead when he calls turn. Obviously he is slightly wrong and the fold is almost definitely incorrect because there is always the chance your calculations to your opponents tendencies are wrong and that in this spot i think he overreps in his head the amout of hands that Seiver shows up with that are going to be better than AA at that point in the hand w/ that action Its interesting because its not like rankeinemeir (lolsp?) was surprised to see KT he thought that would shove he just didnt think anything else would semi-bluff shove and perhaps he was correct with the game flow and the way Seiver is likely to approach this tourament. Except that any Ac does that too and if you are going to fold to pot sized turn bet on a draw heavy board you are better off just raising the flop, its not even close

I mean of course you guys are right, it is just a choke but was interesting to think about what he was thinking

he was thinking of ICM, equity even if hes ahead, pay jumps, his edge on the table without this hand, his stack after this hand with a good result vs bad result vs statuo quo, etc

On August 21 2014 16:48 careface_ wrote: he was not thinking of ICM, equity even if hes ahead, pay jumps, his edge on the table without this hand, his stack after this hand with a good result vs bad result vs statuo quo, etc

there, fixed it for you

for a second I thought this renkeihems dude was Ragen70, I thought "wtf no way he's doing such a stupid fold"
but then realized it's just a live donkament player, so standard

you guys act like renkemeir is your normal tourney donk. I don't think so. Not defending his play but he is better than all of us probably

^lol

Even good players like reinkemeier choke. but the GOAT never chokes

Chokejoke

On August 24 2014 18:28 traxamillion wrote: you guys act like renkemeir is your normal tourney donk. I don't think so. Not defending his play but he is better than all of us probably

were not commenting on his overall skill level, the guy is playing a 1 mill buy in tourney, he obv is very successful, just talking about this exact moment in the tourney.

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Funnier than Gnarly.

On August 27 2014 02:13 zhengfei wrote: Pavtube iMixMXF Version: 1.3.0

tom's brother spamming lp

On August 24 2014 18:28 traxamillion wrote: you guys act like renkemeir is your normal tourney donk. I don't think so. Not defending his play but he is better than all of us probably

so what, that doesn't mean we can't amuse ourselves cause he misplayed his hand, its not like people challenging him at HUFOROLLS or smtng :D

what the fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

how does he fold

...

can scott not have KK? wtf does he even put scott on... a flush? that's ridiculous

chat was rly interesting tho

E: hand comparable to someone folding AA preflop because he doesnt wanna get bad beat? idk not really~_~

Man Scott's chat is so sick. His 1 million dollar tournament life on the line, all in with like 22% equity at best and dude is tanking and you realize you ran into the top of his range. And you can chat like that. Absolutely fucking boss.

Obv terrible fold but I think the chat had a lot to do with it. Scotty just completely mind fucked him with it.

On August 29 2014 17:53 Stim_Abuser wrote: Man Scott's chat is so sick. His 1 million dollar tournament life on the line, all in with like 22% equity at best and dude is tanking and you realize you ran into the top of his range. And you can chat like that. Absolutely fucking boss. Obv terrible fold but I think the chat had a lot to do with it. Scotty just completely mind fucked him with it.

+1

I'm curious what the results would be if neg. and seiver played 100 hu matches. I'm assuming seiver would destroy him, 60-40, but who knows. Talking about nlhe obv.

Thing about this poker age... hard for people to dominate at this game it seems. I read on the news that most the high stakes rape happens in 8games. I think it's great.

Fuck them if they can't take a joke.