Submitted by : Daut

PokerStars Game #4615508836: Omaha Pot Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/04/13 - 19:31:54 (ET)
Table 'Polyxenos II' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Leilaj ($99.55 in chips)
Seat 4: gfabs5 ($206.35 in chips)
Seat 5: suns100 ($164.20 in chips)
Seat 6: Zoomee ($189.55 in chips)
Seat 7: Rsa87 ($388 in chips)
Seat 8: Daut44 ($197 in chips)
Seat 9: Miccis ($351.50 in chips)
Miccis: posts small blind $1
Leilaj: posts big blind $2

Holecards
Dealt to Daut44 ]
gfabs5: calls $2
suns100: folds
Zoomee: calls $2
Rsa87: folds
Daut44: calls $2
Miccis: calls $1
Leilaj: raises $10 to $12
gfabs5: calls $10
Zoomee: calls $10
Daut44: calls $10
Miccis: folds

Flop (Pot : $50)

   
Leilaj: checks
gfabs5: checks
Zoomee: bets $47.50
NewBornBaby has returned
Daut44: calls $47.50
Leilaj: folds
gfabs5: folds

Turn (Pot : $145)

   
Zoomee: bets $130.05 and is all-in
Daut44: calls $130.05

River (Pot : $405.1)

   

Showdown
Zoomee: shows ] (a straight, Nine to King)
Daut44: shows ] (a straight, Nine to King)
Zoomee collected $201.05 from pot
Daut44 collected $201.05 from pot

Summary
Total pot $405.10 | Rake $3
Board  
Seat 1: Leilaj (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: gfabs5 folded on the Flop
Seat 5: suns100 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Zoomee showed ] and won ($201.05) with a straight, Nine to King
Seat 7: Rsa87 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Daut44 (button) showed ] and won ($201.05) with a straight, Nine to King
Seat 9: Miccis (small blind) folded before Flop

i'm not really sure how to play this with position and no redraw. do i

a) pump it now?
b) wait for a safe turn then get it in?
c) fold without redraw? (obvious he has at least QJ)

normally id fold this preflop but i had the button and had 4:1 odds when it got back around to me

nooo ryan
no omaha

i know what im doing this time

After the flop, why would even CONSIDER folding? You have nutz hand the entire way through (no matter what he has, worst you can do is split the pot, and lose a few pennies to rake), best case scenario, u catch him with a set and take him for all he's worth :

not that i play omaha but if the board pairs, a J hits, or a backdoor flush hits hes in huge trouble

errrrrrr, when's travis getting back from vegas?

maybe durrrr will randomly show up for some reason and comment?

Wait for a safe turn then get it in. Preflop, your hand is a relatively weak one for Omaha especially after a raise and several callers, and even though you'd think odds + position, pumping up the pot preflop is giving way to a big multi-way pot where there are few good flops for you to be hitting and when you do hit a good flop you will really need to proceed cautiously because all draws will now be coming after you even if you pot it all the way down.

Infact, this flop is one of the best possible flops you could have caught. And even when you hit it, you have to be careful. Poor big blind probably had A-A-X-X with atleast one suited ace and got his hand shit on with all the callers.

???
you have two jacks, play it fast on the flop as it's the only place in this hand where you'll get positive action from 2ps/sets
with your hand, given the reduced probability of another nut out there you have to play this fast
KQJx is the smallest safe justcall imo

On April 13 2006 21:06 Casper... wrote: ??? you have two jacks, play it fast on the flop as it's the only place in this hand where you'll get positive action from 2ps/sets with your hand, given the reduced probability of another nut out there you have to play this fast KQJx is the smallest safe justcall imo

this seems counter intuitive to me (just calling with the KQJ redraw)
dont you want to get your money in when you are freerolling someone (before a scare card comes and gives him a chance to fold)?
or do you expect a good player to fold QJ here in fear of a freeroll?

plus i figured i had position and if a Q, J, or board paired, and he checked i could blfuf at the pot and take it

To make a point as to what BigBalls is saying, he'd only jam the pot if he had some kind of hand like this:

(nuts + 2 backdoor flush redraws, they dont have to be the nut flush draws, but atleast one nut backdoor redraw is nice to have.)

or

(nuts + set drawing to top full boat)

Ofcourse these two hands are like your golden senerios in multi-way Omaha pots where you'd just shit on people who have hands like say.... (what BigBalls had), because they are freerolling all sorts of draws and getting all your money in the pot on the flop when at best your most likely a chop.

you played it goot

you had the nuts on the flop but no redraws. I think jamming the flop is still the best option as you are favored vs a set and want to get the money in there. If they have the same straight plus redraws you most likely still arent going to fold turn if you called flop worried about set (bad) or the higher straight if an over hits (weak) the backdoor cant even hit till the river at which point the money will already be in so that cant even be taken into consideration if you call flop bet. After a 4 way preflop call i believe anything put pushing this hand is -ev

even he had nuts it was risky.

many holdem players seem to think like "you have the nuts, just move in"
naked nuts in omaha can cost u a lot of money

On April 14 2006 10:38 thrawn wrote: many holdem players seem to think like "you have the nuts, just move in" naked nuts in omaha can cost u a lot of money

If your just learning omaha, you'll find this out soon.

Read: http://cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/?a_id=13027&m_id=50

Guy has the stone cold nuts on the turn... and is drawing completely dead.

Let's quiz people on this hand eh? Can anyone tell me whats the worst possible hand BigBalls could be facing in this situation?

QJTT with 2 backdoor flush draws, and having a higher backdoor club draw

so QcTcJsTs

On April 14 2006 06:52 duncanSLO wrote: you had the nuts on the flop but no redraws. I think jamming the flop is still the best option as you are favored vs a set and want to get the money in there. If they have the same straight plus redraws you most likely still arent going to fold turn if you called flop worried about set (bad) or the higher straight if an over hits (weak) the backdoor cant even hit till the river at which point the money will already be in so that cant even be taken into consideration if you call flop bet. After a 4 way preflop call i believe anything put pushing this hand is -ev

i completely disagree.

just calling is so much more +EV than pushing, and this is because i put my opponent on at least QJ also, and i believe there is no way he has a set or two pair or lower straight. an interesting argument could come up against me if one of the other players has TT 99 or 88. however, ill ignore that part, because as it is they still arent getting odds to call. it is also more +EV because i have position here.

if a bad card comes on the turn (Q,pair board), and he pushes then i can consider folding and mgiht save myself some money. (i wont fold everytime, i cant allow myself to be completely bullied)

if a bad card comes on the turn (Q,J,pair board, note J is not a bad card cause it gives me a 10 out redraw if in fact he had a higher straight) and he checks, then i can push him off the hand and win more. (bluffing like this is underused in omaha, you have a hand and put your opponent on the same hand and bluff any scare card to your own hand)

so i can avoid bad cards on the turn that hit him, make it seem like bad cards for him hit me, and get it safely otherwise.

On April 14 2006 00:01 BigBalls wrote: Show nested quote + On April 13 2006 21:06 Casper... wrote: ??? you have two jacks, play it fast on the flop as it's the only place in this hand where you'll get positive action from 2ps/sets with your hand, given the reduced probability of another nut out there you have to play this fast KQJx is the smallest safe justcall imo this seems counter intuitive to me (just calling with the KQJ redraw) dont you want to get your money in when you are freerolling someone (before a scare card comes and gives him a chance to fold)? or do you expect a good player to fold QJ here in fear of a freeroll?

KQJ is nuts+expanding nuts
the board pairing is worthless to your hand and you don't have the expanding nutsdraw
so you play it fast and let a set decide to put his money in, instead of pricing him in

with KQJ i might price a set in, but it's the pretty much the smallest hand i'd do it with

and, no, i don't expect the nuts to fold

On April 14 2006 13:12 BigBalls wrote: QJTT with 2 backdoor flush draws, and having a higher backdoor club draw so QcTcJsTs

just checked.
this hand has the following odds:

43.41% to win
55.85% to tie

0.713 (% to win + .5 * % to tie)