Villain is a loose and cally preflop and tends to donk a lot on the flop but I haven't seen him c/r yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him c/r light in certain spots.

His stats are 57/13 with an aggression factor of 2.3 after 104 hands.

My question is given the read, while not solid, could we find a check and see a turn?

And given that same read, in this spot could we jam it all in when he check raises?

Or do we need to wait for a better spot?

am kinda lost here but i don't think we can do anything but fold to the c/r.

given your read it does seem like a good spot to just bet flop to protect our vulnerable TPTK, since he's donking a lot which means his checking range will tend to be weaker.

check back is an option but i think it's good to cbet often versus guys who donk lead a lot.

Betting this hand if you don't know what you're doing vs a c/r is not a good idea. If you're continuing this hand, it shouldn't be with a shove I dont think. Pretty sure call flop/fold blank spade turn is gonna outperform shoving. Whether it is better than folding is another question, you'd need to figure out a range he's check raising with first.

But before you bet, make a range of what you think he's continuing with on the flop, then check what your equity is vs that range, because I really dont think AQT9 is a favorite (at least by more than 1-2% but I doubt even that) vs the continuing range on this board.

EDIT:
As you can see, you're not doing great vs a flop continuing range:
+ Show Spoiler +

Vs the c/pot section of his range (just rough assumptions, not taking the fact that he donks stuff into account)
+ Show Spoiler +

Bet/fold vs Bet/Shove vs Bet/call


For some reason copy pasting my open office doc into paint converted the $ stuff into KRW and removed the decimals but w-ever.
Stack Fold 19.6$
Stack Raise 17.95$
Stack Call 20.71$

The calc for the bet/call is probably a bit optimistic, might be missing a few like K5XXss or just naked Kss flushdraws that he might shove.

With 34.6% equity (33% is breakeven vs checkpot if eq fully realized obviously) it would make sense that fold/call would be pretty close

but moreso this shows flop check is better; thanks for taking the time to do that tian

How much does Odds Oracle cost? I need a program that can do omaha ranges using scripts

On October 17 2015 02:52 TianYuan wrote: Betting this hand if you don't know what you're doing vs a c/r is not a good idea. If you're continuing this hand, it shouldn't be with a shove I dont think. Pretty sure call flop/fold blank spade turn is gonna outperform shoving. Whether it is better than folding is another question, you'd need to figure out a range he's check raising with first. But before you bet, make a range of what you think he's continuing with on the flop, then check what your equity is vs that range, because I really dont think AQT9 is a favorite (at least by more than 1-2% but I doubt even that) vs the continuing range on this board. EDIT: As you can see, you're not doing great vs a flop continuing range: + Show Spoiler + Vs the c/pot section of his range (just rough assumptions, not taking the fact that he donks stuff into account) + Show Spoiler + Bet/fold vs Bet/Shove vs Bet/call For some reason copy pasting my open office doc into paint converted the $ stuff into KRW and removed the decimals but w-ever. Stack Fold 19.6$ Stack Raise 17.95$ Stack Call 20.71$ The calc for the bet/call is probably a bit optimistic, might be missing a few like K5XXss or just naked Kss flushdraws that he might shove.

Even though you're not doing great vs a continuing range, that doesn't necessarily mean that betting isn't still the right answer. It depends a lot on the equity of the hands that he does fold and what hands he raises; if he just raises all the hands that dominate you, call draws and fold most everything else (and I'd imagine there's a lot of villains like that at lower stakes) I can definitely see betting still being the right option here, especially when we haven't seen villain c/r as much (though hero thinking he might c/r light here does throw a wrench into that)

On October 17 2015 09:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Show nested quote + On October 17 2015 02:52 TianYuan wrote: Betting this hand if you don't know what you're doing vs a c/r is not a good idea. If you're continuing this hand, it shouldn't be with a shove I dont think. Pretty sure call flop/fold blank spade turn is gonna outperform shoving. Whether it is better than folding is another question, you'd need to figure out a range he's check raising with first. But before you bet, make a range of what you think he's continuing with on the flop, then check what your equity is vs that range, because I really dont think AQT9 is a favorite (at least by more than 1-2% but I doubt even that) vs the continuing range on this board. EDIT: As you can see, you're not doing great vs a flop continuing range: + Show Spoiler + Vs the c/pot section of his range (just rough assumptions, not taking the fact that he donks stuff into account) + Show Spoiler + Bet/fold vs Bet/Shove vs Bet/call For some reason copy pasting my open office doc into paint converted the $ stuff into KRW and removed the decimals but w-ever. Stack Fold 19.6$ Stack Raise 17.95$ Stack Call 20.71$ The calc for the bet/call is probably a bit optimistic, might be missing a few like K5XXss or just naked Kss flushdraws that he might shove. Even though you're not doing great vs a continuing range, that doesn't necessarily mean that betting isn't still the right answer. It depends a lot on the equity of the hands that he does fold and what hands he raises; if he just raises all the hands that dominate you, call draws and fold most everything else (and I'd imagine there's a lot of villains like that at lower stakes) I can definitely see betting still being the right option here, especially when we haven't seen villain c/r as much (though hero thinking he might c/r light here does throw a wrench into that)

I forgot to ss that but the hands he folds we are destroying in equity: nearly 77% equity. This is why this a pretty much textbook check back hand unless we have some special reason or we can very comfortably bet/fold or bet/get in with a read.

Given that he said he doesn't have a read on his C/R range but suspects it might be light, I think checking is more prudent here. You're absolutely correct tho that we need to look at the equity his folding hands have, it's why so many worse hands than this are good bets. Can also be situations and boards were we want to bet a hand that is really 50/50 when called and has good equity vs their folding range just because otherwise we end up checking too much etc. Don't think this is such a case tho.

If you have the read or suspicion villain plays the way you described, bet bet check is a pretty awesome line (or bet check call/fold depending on runout).

On October 17 2015 08:09 traxamillion wrote: but moreso this shows flop check is better; thanks for taking the time to do that tian How much does Odds Oracle cost? I need a program that can do omaha ranges using scripts

I don't remember but I think it's something along the lines of 50-80$. You can get a pokerjuice subscription for 30e a month, might be the better choice... I'm going to migrate eventually, just don't have the mental will to learn a new program It seems much easier to use tho and you get odds oracle for free if you subscribe for a longer period I think.