1
 |
Carthac United States. Dec 05 2010 02:44. Posts 1343 | | |
Hello again everybody
So my father, for his birthday, decided that he would like to get better at poker. I was kind of hesitant at first, as he possesses some of the WORST possible habits as far as general poker goes. He loves to chase draws, he tilts very easily and wears his emotions on his sleeve. When he tilts, he plays way too many hands, and loves to make blatant bluff raises with absolute air. On top of this, he does not stop at 1 buy-in. He is willing to put down 2-3 BI to attempt to chase his previous losses. His mindset, as the best I can explain it, is one that if he started with 200 and made it to 400, but then left with 300, he views it as walking away down 100 dollars.
Even though I knew all of this, he still expressed to me that he really wanted to get better at the game he has played (horribly) for so long. I am a micros grinder, and have a poker coach myself. I know basic stuff, but do not have the deepest well of knowledge yet in the game. My strategy was to make him a huge nit for the time being, then graduate on when he understood more and if he really wanted to stick with it.
I begun teaching him, even bought him Skylansky's book, and tried to talk through hands with him. It seemed like he was listening, but nothing was really sinking in. I let him play a few nl10 FR games on my acc on stars to become more accustomed, and he could not even control himself there as I would catch him playing random garbage from terrible positions. When I asked him about it, I felt like a school teacher disciplining a child about not doing their homework, which I was not comfortable with. His response was "I got bored." I explained to him why he shouldn't do that, why it is bad, etc. etc. But once again, it seemed to go in one ear, and out the other.
For his 50th birthday, my mother decided she would do something special and invite our family and friends to go to the casino, so he could play poker, we could all eat together, and just have a good time. My mother and father are not poor by any means, but are still on a tight budget. My father went to the casino, and I tried to get him to play a limit game, but he opted to try and play NL200. Once the cards did not come fast enough for him, I believe he fell back into his old habits. Ends up he loses 500 dollars, as I guess he snuck to the ATM at some time, and is the only one that does not have a good time at his birthday. Add this to the dinner bill they insisted to pay, as my mother had budgeted money for this, and I believe they are down about 650 tonight. I was told later on that my mother and father were fighting on the way out.
So my question to you all, after tonight, should I try to continue to teach him if he asks, or should I simply cut it off and hope he stops playing, as he typically becomes very frustrated about poker and stops playing for a long time after he loses. His lack of self control and emotional stability seems to be a complete mismatch for a game like poker, and I do not want him to continue losing money when my parents are already on a fairly tight budget.
Advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
|
|
| 1
 |
joLin United States. Dec 05 2010 03:11. Posts 3818 | | |
have you talked to your mom about this |
| |
|
| 1
|
Carthac United States. Dec 05 2010 03:17. Posts 1343 | | |
Extensively, no. She tells me he has a lot of fun when I teach him, but thats about it. |
|
| 1
 |
K40Cheddar United States. Dec 05 2010 03:25. Posts 2202 | | |
Well if he wants to try and get better you can't stop him from thinking that. Problem is he doesn't seem to realize that getting better isn't going to happen overnight and if he tends to lose patience easily he's probably not going to be a winner ever. Still, if he wants you to help him it could be some good father/son binding time, assuming you don't hate your father. |
| |
|
| 1
|
Carthac United States. Dec 05 2010 03:28. Posts 1343 | | |
| | On December 05 2010 02:25 K40Cheddar wrote:
Well if he wants to try and get better you can't stop him from thinking that. Problem is he doesn't seem to realize that getting better isn't going to happen overnight and if he tends to lose patience easily he's probably not going to be a winner ever. Still, if he wants you to help him it could be some good father/son binding time, assuming you don't hate your father. |
I don't hate my father, but I guess I have never been that close to him either. He is a good guy, but the thing I worry about is emotional control. If he can do something like this and be deceptive about it, should I consider refusing to get involved for the sake of not promoting behavior that he clearly can't control? |
|
| 1 | |
Explain to him that he HAS to learn to control it if he ever hopes to have any success playing poker. Anyone with tilt issues (myself included) is prone to dumping a ton of money in stupid spots and will end up losing way more than they should. If he really wants to learn, he has to understand that emotional control is a part of poker and that he won't ever have success exploiting other people if he can't even control himself.
Best of luck to your dad! |
|
| shoving here as a bluff at 50NL is like explaning calcalus to a 6 month old cat wtf are you thinking - TalentedTom | |
|
| 1
 |
Ket  United Kingdom. Dec 05 2010 04:26. Posts 8665 | | |
hard to teach an old dog new tricks |
|
| 1
|
blackjacki2 United States. Dec 05 2010 06:00. Posts 2581 | | |
Just tell him if he wants to play he has to grind his own roll from the micros and he can never play higher than .01/.02 until he grinds out 20 buyins for the next level |
|
| 1
 |
Highcard Canada. Dec 05 2010 06:02. Posts 5428 | | |
first you should tell him his biggest downfall is not playing cards but controlling himself. If you have no idea how to help him with what you believe is his biggest problem then you should tell him that. What you can do though is show him how you perceive the game, how you understand the dynamic flow and that crazy shit can happen for what seems like forever, or that no matter how bad you think it is, it falls within variance which evens out over months.
Break down the odds, the probability of hand occurrences, flop occurrences, how badly you can run over how long of hands, how that equates to live poker. If you are going to teach someone, especially someone who is struggling, the biggest disservice you can do for them is just telling them random shit strategy without applying it to logic and reason. Show him pokerstove, go over all the hand potentials, how they relate to what other people are playing. Once he understands all of this, only then should you contemplate with strategy, betting sizes, bluffing spots, positional dynamics.
His learning is directly correlated on if you understand how to actually teach instead of just spew jargon at him. I hope you know how to do all that otherwise, tell him you are learning as you go too and have FUN being together. This is a game after all. |
|
| I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the time | |
|
| 1 | |
at first i read: Father wants to leave home |
|
| 1
 |
Fudyann Netherlands. Dec 05 2010 07:45. Posts 704 | | |
| | On December 05 2010 05:02 Highcard wrote:
first you should tell him his biggest downfall is not playing cards but controlling himself. If you have no idea how to help him with what you believe is his biggest problem then you should tell him that. What you can do though is show him how you perceive the game, how you understand the dynamic flow and that crazy shit can happen for what seems like forever, or that no matter how bad you think it is, it falls within variance which evens out over months.
Break down the odds, the probability of hand occurrences, flop occurrences, how badly you can run over how long of hands, how that equates to live poker. If you are going to teach someone, especially someone who is struggling, the biggest disservice you can do for them is just telling them random shit strategy without applying it to logic and reason. Show him pokerstove, go over all the hand potentials, how they relate to what other people are playing. Once he understands all of this, only then should you contemplate with strategy, betting sizes, bluffing spots, positional dynamics.
His learning is directly correlated on if you understand how to actually teach instead of just spew jargon at him. I hope you know how to do all that otherwise, tell him you are learning as you go too and have FUN being together. This is a game after all. |
Excellent post. |
|
| 1
|
boreHM Netherlands. Dec 05 2010 12:33. Posts 1595 | | |
wouldn't something like rush poker keep him from getting bored?
folding sucks less because you get to look at two new cards instantly 
I'd really not start any teaching off with pokerstove or strategy
just give him the good ol' Lederer preflop action sheet and some Harrington on cash games
get his abc right |
|
| 1
|
YouGoTGoT United States. Dec 05 2010 12:49. Posts 1118 | | |
This sounds like my dad except he doesnt want to learn because he thinks he already knows everything. The man cannot even be convinced that poker is anything but luck. |
|
| YA I TALK SHIT, GOTTA DEFECATE TO CONVERSATE | |
|
| 1
|
Carthac United States. Dec 05 2010 12:54. Posts 1343 | | |
| | On December 05 2010 05:02 Highcard wrote:
first you should tell him his biggest downfall is not playing cards but controlling himself. If you have no idea how to help him with what you believe is his biggest problem then you should tell him that. What you can do though is show him how you perceive the game, how you understand the dynamic flow and that crazy shit can happen for what seems like forever, or that no matter how bad you think it is, it falls within variance which evens out over months.
Break down the odds, the probability of hand occurrences, flop occurrences, how badly you can run over how long of hands, how that equates to live poker. If you are going to teach someone, especially someone who is struggling, the biggest disservice you can do for them is just telling them random shit strategy without applying it to logic and reason. Show him pokerstove, go over all the hand potentials, how they relate to what other people are playing. Once he understands all of this, only then should you contemplate with strategy, betting sizes, bluffing spots, positional dynamics.
His learning is directly correlated on if you understand how to actually teach instead of just spew jargon at him. I hope you know how to do all that otherwise, tell him you are learning as you go too and have FUN being together. This is a game after all. |
That is the toughest part. I keep asking him about hands, telling him about how poker is a long term game, tell him about odds and variance, etc etc. My biggest problem is, to me, it seems like he is a gambler that can't control himself. If this is the case, what is the point of trying to teach him poker if all of his knowledge goes out the window when he gets frustrated |
|
| 1 | |
some people's brains are receptive to knowledge and change.. most aren't, especially as they get older.. let them go about their way. I wouldn't encourage him to play poker unless you can get him to be willing to learn at nl10 or less and he adopts a proper mindset
|
|
| 1 | |
start to get him the poker mindset instead of crappy poker book
its what he needs the most
see with him what he think about that book after reading it
and go from there |
|
| 1 | |
also what is the point to ask you to teach him if he doenst listen to you
|
|
| 1 | |
Your father seems to be addicted to poker. And you should deal with him as with addicted person.
First of all, he has to admit to himself that he is not a good player, and that his like of playing poker is an adiction.
(He is not capable of stop playing even when he is upset, and he lies to himself that it entartains him(in the end, nobody likes to lose serious money)
When you do that, things sould start getting better, since he doesn't seem so far to be very addicted, and things can
go well easily.
Poker actually should be a great game for the person like him, to improve himself. But he must learn, to improve himself.
You can turn his addiction into self improving, profiting hobby, but there would be needed a lot of work. |
|
| | Last edit: 05/12/2010 17:48 |
|
| 1 | |
| | On December 05 2010 11:54 Carthac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2010 05:02 Highcard wrote:
first you should tell him his biggest downfall is not playing cards but controlling himself. If you have no idea how to help him with what you believe is his biggest problem then you should tell him that. What you can do though is show him how you perceive the game, how you understand the dynamic flow and that crazy shit can happen for what seems like forever, or that no matter how bad you think it is, it falls within variance which evens out over months.
Break down the odds, the probability of hand occurrences, flop occurrences, how badly you can run over how long of hands, how that equates to live poker. If you are going to teach someone, especially someone who is struggling, the biggest disservice you can do for them is just telling them random shit strategy without applying it to logic and reason. Show him pokerstove, go over all the hand potentials, how they relate to what other people are playing. Once he understands all of this, only then should you contemplate with strategy, betting sizes, bluffing spots, positional dynamics.
His learning is directly correlated on if you understand how to actually teach instead of just spew jargon at him. I hope you know how to do all that otherwise, tell him you are learning as you go too and have FUN being together. This is a game after all. |
That is the toughest part. I keep asking him about hands, telling him about how poker is a long term game, tell him about odds and variance, etc etc. My biggest problem is, to me, it seems like he is a gambler that can't control himself. If this is the case, what is the point of trying to teach him poker if all of his knowledge goes out the window when he gets frustrated
|
I haven't read it before my earlier post, but it seems you realized what this is really about. |
|
| | Last edit: 05/12/2010 17:51 |
|
| 1
 |
whamm! Albania. Dec 05 2010 20:34. Posts 11625 | | | |
|
| |
|
