Educating the noobs = -EV, so......

some people are incapable of learning.

like here: http://www.liquidpoker.net/blog/viewblog.php?id=814632

why would anyone answer your question honestly? they are not incentivzed to. It's better for people to answer in a way that seems reasonable, yet still allows them to control and to get free information out of you.
people are highly likely to tell you that you are an asshole, cause this allows them to shame you and so nudge you towards serving the community, being a good cog in society. thats what you get when you ask society: that answer that is good for society. But it might not be the best answer for you.

now consider that I am a member of this society...
welcome to leveling hell! 8D

On February 17 2010 05:22 joLin wrote: some people are incapable of learning. like here: http://www.liquidpoker.net/blog/viewblog.php?id=814632

QFT

yah i kinda stopped posting anything important

wat, i post because i have nothing better to do not because i want to help people.

my want to fill in spare time by making pointless posts on forums outweighs the consequence of losing .0000012 bb/100 (or + .0000012 bb/100 because some of my advice is pretty terrible)

I don't think you're an asshole, and I think it's good if you don't post strategy posts, since you're game is not good enough for you to educate anyone. And I don't think you should waste mental energy thinking about educating "noobs" on lp =p

My 2 cents xD

The more you teach, the better you get yourself. You also develop some reputation and people to talk to.

I'm very happy with everything LP has done for me. It's not going to magically make you a better player, but it's an amazing resource to meet other people and get better.

By posting advice, you also will likely receive criticism because you won't be right every time.

what edzwoo said.

And obviously you get the satisfaction from social interaction

well you're still a fish, so?

it's the dominant strategy

great i wrote a bigass comment and site gave error too lazy to rewrite
but yeah you r an asshole i ll let you figure it out why i think so yourself
pretty much agree with edzwoo but there are things to be added
ffs fix the forum i get this error while posting last 3 days its annoying

yea this came up in a thread a while ago, in my opinion which i accept might not be right, bottom line is ppl will look out for themselves. i used to post a fair bit of help and advice, would always try and get to know better players, and would post every second buyin i won in the hand poster (and also hands i wanted help with). also posting my results in my blog every month trying to make it look as impressive as i could but looking back, the main reason was because i was a rookie in a poker community, and so i was doing everything i could to climb up that ladder, get some "respect" and eventually feed my ego to a degree

once i got to my peak around midstakes i started to see things differently though... i no longer needed a sense of recognition from the community, and helping people out would directly work against me, especially as i went on some downswings and more or less felt like poker education was causing a huge reduction in fish at the tables (at the time). thats the main reason i haven't helped out in poker threads very often. also i improved by figuring out poker related things on my own, so i no longer needed someone to show me the way, i was sustainable in terms of poker learning to a degree. nowdays i don't care about the education so much since its so small... its more laziness to a degree, and also no real feeling of belonging, since theres no standalone Full Ring forum or community here, and i feel no immediate loyalty to anyone besides full ringers

i don't really like the concept of poker training sites, but its the tragedy of the commons so there's not much you can do about it. it is a bit annoying that ppl don't have to go through what i and others did though and learn through trial and error and constantly reevaluating your own game to improve, but instead get a shortcut.

PS: educating the noobs is only -EV if u are playing the same stakes as the noobs =)

On February 17 2010 05:23 Silver)Z( wrote: why would anyone answer your question honestly? they are not incentivzed to. It's better for people to answer in a way that seems reasonable, yet still allows them to control and to get free information out of you. people are highly likely to tell you that you are an asshole, cause this allows them to shame you and so nudge you towards serving the community, being a good cog in society. thats what you get when you ask society: that answer that is good for society. But it might not be the best answer for you. now consider that I am a member of this society... welcome to leveling hell! 8D

that was the biggest mind f*ck i've ever read... now i don't know what your intent was when you posted it :D

If you are worried that educating bad players is -EV, its stupid to think an individual poster's decision to educate people in the forums is going to at all affect the overall poker population's progress...Even if you feel that the games are getting too tough and decide to stop helping new players, there will always be others that are helping the bad players.

Imo poker needs a sort of governing association...Law has the ABA, Accounting has the AICPA or FASB, medicine has the AMA...poker kinda needs an Committee to provide some guidance...to set some broad codes of conduct for professional poker players.

Examples that I have in mind include the following :
1. treating fish with respect...
2. limitations as to the degree of poker education so that you accomplish sort of a dual mandate of giving back and teaching those who really want to learn but making sure you dont spoon feed info and reward people who really are in it only for the money for example...
3. some guidlines or indicators of people you SHOULDNT teach how to play poker (people who are likely to become degenerates, people who should focus on school, people with more pressing priorities like family...people who demonstrate a lack of skills to get far in this game, people with no passion for the game...etc)
4. general guidline in how to MARKET poker to the general public. Ex. The NBA markets its product in a certain way. so does football...and baseball...or any other pro sport. But in poker the direction people market the game is in so many directions that really dont fit together with each other. People like Phil Helmuth really disgrace the game in my opinion. People like Phil Galfond do great things for the game. Yet...I think even he does little for ADVANCEMENT of poker's image because he kinda portrays the lazy, free spirit intellecutla. Even the great players like Phil Ivey are poor AMBASSADORS for poker. He doesnt even make it to alot of tournmanets...Because he just doesnt care except to maximize his own profits and have fun.

Alot of players that play poker struggle with how poker is portrayed by the public. Ex. with parents, g/f, or just with friends. Yet...games like Chess, which is basically really similar to poker besides the betting...are highly respected...Kasparov for example gets to write in the WSJ. Galfond will never get that chance.

The goal imo is to have poker respected enough by the general public where a kid who wishes to turn professional does NOT have to deal with a separation from his parents for example. Or where a poker player does not have to just give up on his entire career prospects because he chose to play poker for 1-2 years...I think alot of the people in this forum have struggled with those issues themselves.

yeah. my 2 cents. Itd be pretty sweet if any higher stakes LPers who have respect in the poker community kinda push this to the right group of people...Imo itd be a really great step.

edit: maybe #2 is retarded tho. But yeah got many other ideas.

i want to help the noobs to get "decent" because they will move up and i will rape their asses on mid/high stakes

Dont you play 50nl? You sure there is nothing left for you to learn? Of course you can always just ask for help but offer none like a rat, but then you will be a douche and maybe people wont be as inclined to help you. Im not trying to shit on you and I have no problem with a person that doesnt offer advice but doesnt ask for none either, if you feel you are "maxed out" feel free to retire from the strategy forums, its your choice to make.