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Do You Remember When??

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Joeingram1   United States. Nov 29 2012 13:40. Posts 943
I like this title because I was sitting here the past few weeks and I couldn't remember when I actually won playing PLO. I would start my session by getting on a bunch of tables running, play most anyone heads up to start games and look at results at end of sessions and kept seeing losing. Would wonder what is going on, what happened. This kept up for about a month and here I am frantically checking my bank accounts, watching the countdown to busto happen, questioning life, question my existance in life, looking up work visa information for Australia, seeing how much I could make per month if I started personal training, looking into being male internet cam model, debating doing copious amounts of drugs. Eventually I decided I needed a break and took a few days off. I found myself on my computer a few days later and decided I would play super small stakes just to play, was maybe 8 tabling and lost 3 buy-ins but didn't feel tilt or too bad.

After this session I started actually thinking to myself, how did I crush for 5 months straight to start the year? How did I come back online and have a 210k month and then just can't win day in and out? The answer is obvious in theory, many have even told me since. PLAY LESS FUCKING TABLES to start but as anyone who mass multi tables now, there is just some mind fuck that happens where you think you need to be playing as many tables as possible. You need MORE fish, MORE money to make, MORE MORE MORE. Instead of focusing on the tables open, you are actively seeking out MORE bad players to play vs. Finally when thinking more about it I finally convinced myself to just calm the fuck down. You don't always need more. Its like dating women, you have sex with one and now you want more sex with more women and fall into a cycle where your always on the hunt and never actually focusing on what you have at the current time but looking forward to who is next. Pretty off topic but I could relate the idea of that to poker. I wrote down how I thought I was winning so much to start the year and wrote down why I thought I was losing so much now. Nothing from either list matched up . I realized playing in great games and being amazing at exploiting fish's weaknesses doesn't translate to mass tabling vs regs and playing good players heads up. Add in massive tilting during this and as shown its a recipe for disaster. When you tilt in position again someone with a terrible winrate, it never really ends up being THAT bad. You can make a questionable all in pre and often they end up with an even worse questionable all in pre against you. When playing vs regs though, there questionable range ends up being double suited AKxx and QQxx and any KKxx. When you get it on the flop vs fish with a bad flush draw and bottom pair, they show up with an over pair/no redraw or Top/Bottom pair and you end up usually having good equity when in reality you made a terrible play. Against regs when you make these same tilting plays though your always crushed. I mean in theory this is obvious but I have never really heard or read it ever put like that before.

I guess the basic idea I am saying is that I need to go completely away from what is not working and go back to what was working. I started writing down all my old strategies I used to game select and coming up with better ranges to play against certain types of weaker players in different situations. On the surface the idea is play less tables, bumhunt weaker players, win money. I think alot approach it like that and win but I probably went into it 10 times deeper during my peak of really thinking about it. As I started to win more money though I became lazy and went away from improving my ideas and strategies and went back to an abc approach at it. These last few days I have dove back into thinking about everything from all angles. Basically it is play 1-4 tables, depending on those tables and amount of action going on (ie: double jesus with alot of betting/hands getting to showdown instead of jesus seat with 4 other tigheter regs with not much postflop to follow) can add 2 more tables. Once that 4-6 cap is hit completely focusing on games being played instead of checking the lobby every couple seconds for new games or wait lists or anything of that nature. This is fine do to while I have been playing 1/2 up to 3/6 but I do realize once I start moving back up stakes that I will have to keep lobby open and pay some attention. With less tables to follow though that shouldn't be an issue. Actually taking notes and paying attention to what is happening during hands and when they get to showdown (ie: fish makes pot bet on river, note his hand and watch for similar spot in future to either solidify that note or exploit that) When I'm mass tabling I probably look over less then 5 hands in a weeks time, that idea to me thinking about it now is fucking insanely terribad. Everytime my note taking or paying attention to what is happening pays off I get very excited lol.

When I started writing this I was in a writing zone, then I went on my patio somewhere during the last paragraph and kinda lost it, I was just sitting here on my computer after finished last session and was like fuck man I am such an idiot for going back to my old terrible habits of mass tabling/spewing away thousands. I need to write this down now and not forget it again. I probably have so much more on my mind about all this and hopefully write more about it soon

I'm going to continue to stick to mid stakes for now and at some point add in 5/10 and maybe 10/20 again. I'm still rolled to play up to 50/100 (definition of rolled meaning I could lose a few BI there and drop down to rebuild comfortably) but that desire to lose massive pots isn't there for me right now. After regaining my confidence and winning this might change but until then there is still heaps of money to be made at mid stakes.

Here is my graph since going back to old process. As you can see I didn't full commit at first and after I won a bit decided I could 12+ table again and win and was hit with a your a fucking clown, don't do that again pretty quick. But so far so good

I've been starting to enjoy myself more living here in Sydney. Have a few music fests coming up here and went with my girlriend to Stereosonic last weekend. Had a great time there and really enjoyed seeing Tiesto. Thinking back on it though, I would have enjoyed anyone tremendously at that point in time of the night but it was fun. Had a chance to wear my spirit hood out for the first time in Australia

This is the spirit hood in all its glory

thanks for readingggg

please post more hands longpie and andrewsong!!

*****1 votes
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MiPwnYa    Brasil. Nov 29 2012 14:04. Posts 5227

  On November 29 2012 12:40 Joeingram1 wrote:
I realized playing in great games and being amazing at exploiting fish's weaknesses doesn't translate to mass tabling vs regs and playing good players heads up.

Come back to $5/$10 and everything will be fine tho

Joeingram1   United States. Nov 29 2012 14:05. Posts 943

all seems so simple in theory, i will be back soon with the jesus while your in the anti jesus

MiPwnYa    Brasil. Nov 29 2012 14:08. Posts 5227

You seem to underestimate how good you were running when you were "playing your best" and how bad you're running now that you're "playing bad"
You haven't suddenly gotten worse Joey, you've just gone from running insanely good to running awful, and I know it feels like all your skills have been taken away from you but that's just not the case. That being said playing less tables is obviously an excellent idea.
Good luck mate

wobbly_au   Australia. Nov 29 2012 14:09. Posts 6540

Good mindset, doesnt seem like your tilted at all. Keep in mind tho, you probably underestimate the variance that comes with nosebleeds, the people and stakes you were playing is so ridiculously volatile i dont think you should ever EXPECT to have solid upswing months..

You obviously know a thing or two about plo, my advice is to just play some midstakes and grinds.

The Last Laugh. 

Joeingram1   United States. Nov 29 2012 14:17. Posts 943

I don't think I overestimated how good I was running then Mipwn because everyday I would win I would say how the fk am I running so good. When you run bad in those games or spots I was running bad in your going to make up for it in other spots and the results aren't so drastically terrible. If you run bad in a game where you are a -1-+1bb/100 loser in the game and compound the result of running bad with tilt and still playing in games where your a -1bb/100 loser then it adds up at a much larger rate. I think I just have to be realistic with myself in what exaclty my best skills are too, just because Its possible for me to play well and win when running at neutral doesn't I should be doing that

Joeingram1   United States. Nov 29 2012 14:20. Posts 943

I think I did underestimate the variance that does take place at those higher stakes when playing wobbly. Even great players can have big losing streaks and keep losing without an obvious reason behind it all. I don't really expect to have solid upswings when playing 25/50+ and when was playing it regularly went into each day knowing I could lose a ridiculous amount of money and play fine. You lose 3BI at 50/1 playing in game with a terible player, game breaks, no more games for day, sometimes try to press it in questionable games at 25/50 lose 3 more BI and your down 45k for the day. The opportunity to keep playing in good games at lower stakes is always there though and that situation end ups not occuring

longple    Sweden. Nov 29 2012 15:32. Posts 4461

can def relate to alot of what ur describeing, as i myself lost ~350-400k there around earlier this year after crushing month after month with confidence up the roof, and then all of a sudden couldnt barely find a winning session for 5-6 months or so.

ive always been like the super solid person that every1 relies on, my family, my friends and pokerpeople i guess when it comes to poker, ive been fkin rocksolid mentally all of my life, probably thanks to a strong family and awesome closerelations with friends/girlfriends thru out all of my life this far. viewed life as a path with many crossroads and theres nothing to worry about in the future cuz im so sure that i would make the most optimal choices possible with the current expereince etc when faceing those crossroads/bumps or w/e u wanna call it. this year ive started to doubt all of those things, aswell as my pokerability obviously, and ive had some problems with some sort of panic anxiety lately (wich is something ive never even been close to experienceing earlier) maybe something i have to seek help for if it gets worse i guess.

ive been a fucking trainwreck this year, and ive been scared. ive felt really lost in periods, i think in my case alot of it had to do with a really brutal breakup just during the times of the doomswitchmonths wich hurt me alot. ive just been kind of lonely and tryed to spend as much time with friends as possible, doing things just to not go insane, as soon as i sit down with myself i go fkin depressed most of the times. had such a hard time moveing on from her and its bugging me alot, never really been single for the past 8 years, wich basiaclly is all of my "adultish" life, since i got a functioning brain atleast. ive always met great girls wich i got more serious with pretty fast after breakups, and the breakups normally was something i felt good about since it normally ends cuz it has to end. except for this time were i got my heart stomped on pretty much and its been really hard to adjust to aswell as poker being the most horrible fucking shit that ever excisted, loseing session after session, month after month. sorry for going on tangent about my personal life thats not = poker.

its a scary loop and i know alot about it, poker goes hand in hand with life as ur really invested since its a big part of your life. it can fucking drive u crazy during longer downswings like the one ive been experiencing. and im not sure what started this loop, the breakup or the DS. both problems feed from eachother i guess.

as to all of my problems, im back crushing the pokers again, and together with it alot of other things are falling into place again as time goes on. the only thing to complete my current life again = get laid, some good fucking sex again and not some retarded drunk shit.

i dont even know why i started ranting in your blog about my own problems, i think i had a point as i started writing. i guess its something like, most of lp, and all of my pokerfriends think that im this wizard of poker that has everything figured out. ive been fucking lost, deeply lost and doubting my pokerconfidence a ton in periods. not trusting my judgement and been thinking in the lines of wobbly for a while that maybe im not even a winner anymore, maybe the games are to though or maybe ive just been on an insane heater for these past years before 2012.

and now from nowhere everything is clicking again, im winning again, my though processes are fucking cristal clear and my confidence is back, everything pokerrelated feels just as it used to feel. its like its been a really long bad psychadelic trip. and it feels fucking wierd, now its almost hard to relate to how i could get so lost, and doubt my ability so much as ive done this year.

hang in there, things will turn around, playing softer lineups defenetely is good. rebuild some confidence and muscle through the DS

think about my fucked up story when u doubt urself

still not sure what the point of all of this was

oh, and also what got me to slowly start to rebuild pokerconfidence again was kind of submitting to everything that i was fighteing, that i pretty much just accepted that maybe i do suck, and maybe im not gonna be successfull in poker like ive been so sure of that i would be these last years, to battle every1 at nosebleeds, maybe i wont get there. So fucking what. poker is not something that i want hauting me just cuz i didnt get best at it, and im looking forward to leave this piece of shit behind me if i continued to feel as bad as ive been doing this year so that i can do something else, cuz poker is a fucking lonely job. even tho i have awesome friends that loves me, its really hard to talk about downswings and how it can fuck you up.

so i got staked with a better mindset accepting that it is what it is and just try to make the best of it for maybe another year or two, and if it dosnt work out, it dosnt work out.

then i started crushing again

fu mind

sorry again for stealing ur thunder and started this rant, i was thinking of writing something in the downswingthread tomson started, but marshall and wobbly started some random peniswar so the thread kinda got lost. maybe i should have put this wall of text in my blog, but what ever, its somewhat related


 Last edit: 29/11/2012 15:37

Joeingram1   United States. Nov 29 2012 15:59. Posts 943

no need to be sorry, love reading it because although there are different specific issues the general mindset is basically the same. I really do think the downswing is at the foreground of it and it trickles down from there. When winning at such a high level and high stakes for a certain period of time and then hit with a dose of reality, its just really hard to deal with. Ive been a mess as well this past month but luckily my girlfriend is here to help me maintain, while in the past I would have just gone out and met a bunch of random different women and dealt with it that way.

I do the same thing you do when writing as well where I just start writing and all of a sudden I'm like wait what am i talking about or writing about lol, the mind just starts wondering to some dream like place and then you wake up and are where am i?

I think to some point I accepted that fact too and started thinking about what else is out there in life but I think we might just suck at doing a certain thing when it comes playing. Like sucking at HU vs regs or in tough games happens and now we look at ourselves like wow man i just can't win. But when trying a different approach to the game (ie: getting staked and moving down stakes) all of a sudden you become great for a period of time and confidence is restored and you don't suck anymore.

You probably could have wrote whole blog post on that as well lol, certainly should be imo

MysticJoey   Poland. Nov 29 2012 16:11. Posts 1430

longple you just sumed up my year, and my thoughts through it, in every paragraph

we gonna destroy 2013, cheers guys

 Last edit: 29/11/2012 16:16

Zep   United States. Nov 29 2012 19:00. Posts 2292

I really didn't like you when you originally started posting on lp (lol) but I fucking love the shit you write now. You seem to have matured quite a bit over the last year and have some real insight and wisdom when you sit down and write out your blogs. Keep it up.

NeillyJQ: I really wanted to prove to myself I could beat NL200, I did over a small sample, and believe Ill be crushing there in the future. 

MiPwnYa    Brasil. Nov 29 2012 19:02. Posts 5227

interesting post longple
sharin those experiences can only be good

Stroggoz   New Zealand. Nov 29 2012 21:31. Posts 4128

i'm interested to know what the standard deviation stat is like for PLO grinders? For me when i play NL holdem 6max it's about 10 for 100bb, 12~ for 100bb HU and about 18-20 for 250bb 6max.

I was GTO in 2007 -wobbly_au 

Mariuslol   Norway. Nov 29 2012 23:23. Posts 4741

What a great treat and a pleasure to read with my morning coffe =]


LP unite!! Crush 2012 xD

 Last edit: 29/11/2012 23:31

Mariuslol   Norway. Nov 29 2012 23:31. Posts 4741

Shit! I ment 2013!!

NeillyJQ   United States. Nov 29 2012 23:33. Posts 8947

ever since i started 5 tabling, 4 on my 32 incher and 1 fullscreen on laptop - and searching all the fish, the games seem much easier in general by far.

table select, let go of any ego of starting tbls vs regs, own them fishies n make dat bank u sick hero

keep it up ur the fckin man

Just remember you need to be god damn sure about their tendencies. -Artanis11 

wobbly_au   Australia. Nov 29 2012 23:48. Posts 6540

  On November 29 2012 22:33 NeillyJQ wrote:
ever since i started 5 tabling, 4 on my 32 incher and 1 fullscreen on laptop - and searching all the fish, the games seem much easier in general by far.

table select, let go of any ego of starting tbls vs regs, own them fishies n make dat bank u sick hero

keep it up ur the fckin man

no one gives a shit about what you say, scum idiot.

Btw great post longple~~ Especially the part about giving in to your ego and not fighitng everyone at the highstakes, that takes a lot of guts to do. (kinda ironic aye)

The Last Laugh. 

goose58   United States. Nov 30 2012 16:07. Posts 869

I'd pay good money to see you on cam.

Joking aside, I can't help but wonder how many champs out there have fallen off the throne due to partying/booze/drugs/complacency. Obviously, some people can party hard every day and still crush life, but I think they are the outlier.

It seems to me that when people have success or failure, they like to celebrate or console themselves(with mind-altering substances/food/women/etc).

Mind altering substances do just that -- alter the mind. In a game like poker, where every decision affects your EV, even a small loss of mental acuity can result in heavy consequences. I think in some cases it can lead to a semi-perma-tilt.

Clearly there many different reasons for being off of your game, I'm not trying to villainize partying/booze/drugs, "The dose makes the poison". I'm mentioning it because I read your previous blog post about consuming MDMA.

I think of people like Galfond, Nano, Dang's, Antonius, etc; they appear to me to be fairly health conscious and not that big of partiers. I could be wrong and I'm sure they have all been wasted many times.

My point is, losing focus is easy and detrimental to attaining success and holding on to it.

Anyways, good luck.

RiKD    United States. Nov 30 2012 18:40. Posts 5189

Take drugs and listen to "Cosmic Love" by Florence + Machine.

Reading this site and blogs makes me remember how fucked up poker can be. How fucked up life can be.

This blog and longpole's post make me reflect back to how fucked up downswings can be. If anyone is ever in the CHI area let's drink some Champagne for the Pain. Can't get high for the low anymore but champagne for the pain is where it's at. Kiss some Molly under the Holly and find some Bad Bitch Hoes under the Misteltoes.

Good Luck All. Variance in No Limit Hold Them and Pot Limit Omahas seems ridic these days.

Target-x17   Canada. Nov 30 2012 19:57. Posts 1027

  On November 29 2012 13:08 MiPwnYa wrote:
You seem to underestimate how good you were running when you were "playing your best" and how bad you're running now that you're "playing bad"
You haven't suddenly gotten worse Joey, you've just gone from running insanely good to running awful, and I know it feels like all your skills have been taken away from you but that's just not the case. That being said playing less tables is obviously an excellent idea.
Good luck mate

This your running hot for five months and losing since are equal to winning and losing a coin flip. Not sure if playing the highest plo stakes are in your interest if you dont see this. While making these small changes would help no amount of pregame rituals or goat sacrifices will have much effect on one single session.

f u bw rock 


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