Prohibition Makes Drug Dealers Richer - NPR - Page 3

On April 14 2011 16:08 k2o4 wrote: I shoulda said "the majority of people want it", not some. When you try and prohibit something that the majority of people want it fails. People want to alter their state of consciousness through drugs, and that's not going to stop cause we tell them not to. And I think prostitution should be legal. Human trafficking would definitely decrease if it was legal, not increase. No time to make that argument right now but penn and teller did a great job of it in their show "Bullshit" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0805439/ It's streaming on netflix if you wanna check it out. EDIT: trying to do homework while LP is open is a bad idea, hehe, so distracting

prostitution in new zealand got legalized in 2003. Nothing changed afterwards except police didn't have to devote any resources to the crime. everyone profits!

On April 14 2011 18:21 taco wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2011 17:51 blackjacki2 wrote: There isn't a single thing I can think of that if legalized I wouldn't be more aware of people doing. Did I fix your post by reality-izing it?

rofl, legalized murder would be a big economic boom for contract killers.

Legalization won't make anyone happy, not even those advocating it now.

When you turn it over to corporations and tax it, the price will go up, not down. Don't kid yourself. I'll give you an example. When I was in high school, a eighth ounce bag of killer buds cost $30. It's gone up to $40 now in the 25 years between.

When I was in high school, a pack of cigarettes cost $1.50. It's around $7.50 now. So that bag of illegal weed went up 33% while that legal pack of cigarettes went up 500% in the same period.

If weed was made legal, it would be pounced upon by the tobacco industry, as they already have the infrastructure to manufacture, distribute, and collect taxes on this product. And we would see the price of our beloved herb skyrocket.

Then there is the issue of control. Once you have made it "legal" and given it over to industry, you still need to stamp out the black market, which means your "war on drugs' doesn't end. And since your "legal" weed is going to be more expensive than the "illegal weed", you are going to have a real problem with people still growing their own. Believe me when I tell you, from experience, that growing your own supply of weed is easy, far easier than making your own booze was/would be.

No, "legalization" is not the answer. "Decriminalize" would be better. Just stop the war on drugs. Stop putting people in prison for minor drug offenses. Levy fines on the big drug dealers when you catch them, seize there cash, cars, boats, etc.

Just leave the users the fuck alone

On April 14 2011 16:45 devon06atX wrote: . . . .in other news - during the time of prohibition (the noble experiment), numerous syndicates profited immensely from extremely high-priced alcohol due to the inherent illegal nature of it.

This isn't correct at all, it wasn't extremely high priced at all. They profited because there was still a huge market for the product, and they produced it in large quantities to meet that demand.

On April 14 2011 16:16 Bejamin1 wrote: If you decriminalize or legalize controlled substance . . . . the price goes way down.

This is simply not true

Drugs that are less expensive and more easily available = less crime committed by those committing crime to feed their addiction. All of a sudden its no longer underground or difficult to receive the substances.

Drugs are already inexpensive and easily available. It may be underground but it is not difficult to get drugs. You are basing your argument on a fallacy.

Put a government tax on all drugs sold and use it towards rehabilitation centers that treat people who suffer from serious addiction and mental health issues. Government programs that provide free drugs to addicts in order to scale them down to lower and lower rates of usage until eventually reaching zero is far superior to the current model.

This will drive the prices up, and people will look towards underground, black market distributors. This means your "war on drugs" doesn't end, as the government must go after non taxed drugs that will still be pervasive.

Attempting to control something that cannot be controlled is retarded.

This statement is true, and counters the whole rest of your argument.

If you want to treat the sources of the problem you focus on harm reduction, education, rehabilitation, and access.

This, instead of interdiction and prosecution. Money better spent for sure. Quit incarcerating small time dealers and users, put that money to use in education and treatment.

On April 15 2011 09:16 curtinsea wrote: Legalization won't make anyone happy, not even those advocating it now. When you turn it over to corporations and tax it, the price will go up, not down. Don't kid yourself. I'll give you an example. When I was in high school, a eighth ounce bag of killer buds cost $30. It's gone up to $40 now in the 25 years between. When I was in high school, a pack of cigarettes cost $1.50. It's around $7.50 now. So that bag of illegal weed went up 33% while that legal pack of cigarettes went up 500% in the same period. If weed was made legal, it would be pounced upon by the tobacco industry, as they already have the infrastructure to manufacture, distribute, and collect taxes on this product. And we would see the price of our beloved herb skyrocket. Then there is the issue of control. Once you have made it "legal" and given it over to industry, you still need to stamp out the black market, which means your "war on drugs' doesn't end. And since your "legal" weed is going to be more expensive than the "illegal weed", you are going to have a real problem with people still growing their own. Believe me when I tell you, from experience, that growing your own supply of weed is easy, far easier than making your own booze was/would be. No, "legalization" is not the answer. "Decriminalize" would be better. Just stop the war on drugs. Stop putting people in prison for minor drug offenses. Levy fines on the big drug dealers when you catch them, seize there cash, cars, boats, etc. Just leave the users the fuck alone

wouldn't cigarette price have gone up because of the huge tax they put on it because of health reasons? if what you say is true then if drugs were legalized i think the best option would be for the government to make a state owned enterprise that would be aimed at selling drugs as cheaply as possible to addicts so they don't have to steal shit all day to get high. This way drugs would also be given by people who are paid to give a shit about their customer.

On April 15 2011 10:13 Stroggoz wrote: wouldn't cigarette price have gone up because of the huge tax they put on it because of health reasons?

Well, duh

Health reasons, is that why it's taxed so high? That may be the argument the left uses every time they raise so called "sin taxes", but the reality is they raise the taxes because they can, and because it raises revenue.

And don't you think the same thing will happen to weed?

On April 15 2011 10:11 curtinsea wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2011 16:16 Bejamin1 wrote: This, instead of interdiction and prosecution. Money better spent for sure. Quit incarcerating small time dealers and users, put that money to use in education and treatment.

rehab centres seem like a massive waste of money to me. Ineffective and you must be joking if you think a rehab centre can get someone off hard drugs.

On April 15 2011 10:19 curtinsea wrote: Show nested quote + On April 15 2011 10:13 Stroggoz wrote: wouldn't cigarette price have gone up because of the huge tax they put on it because of health reasons? Well, duh Health reasons, is that why it's taxed so high? That may be the argument the left uses every time they raise so called "sin taxes", but the reality is they raise the taxes because they can, and because it raises revenue. And don't you think the same thing will happen to weed?

yep, i see your point, but im still unsure if it would happen to weed since the product would be quite elastic since the drug isn't nearly as addictive as tobacco? Anyhow i don't know much about economics so im not gona say much more about that. what about the last half of my quote though.

weed isn't as addictive as cigarettes?? what do you base that on? I gave up cigarettes 16 years ago, but not weed. I can tell you first hand which is easier to shake.

As for your state sponsored idea, variations on that theme already exist. I know quite a few people getting free methadone to supposedly free them from heroin use. Unfortunately, they are so fucked up on methadone they can't function any better than when they were on heroin, and they are just as addicted to the methadone as they were to heroin. So I would dare say that is a failed experiment as well.

You don't need to make any drastic changes to the law to take a big bite out of the expense of the so called war on drugs. What and how much enforcement is done is a simple policy issue, easy to change.

On April 15 2011 10:28 Stroggoz wrote: rehab centres seem like a massive waste of money to me. Ineffective and you must be joking if you think a rehab centre can get someone off hard drugs.

not nearly as massive a waste of money as prisons are. Rehab centers are the best chance anyone has of getting off of hard drugs, no that is no joke.

weed would obviously become more expensive if it was legalized. comparing norway to holland, I think weed/hash is the only thing less expensive/equally expensive in norway. quality wise you still get way more bang for your buck in the netherlands though. but either way:
this is irrelevant. weed SHOULD be more expensive. ideally, it'd be something you can comfortably afford if you are working full time or nearly full time, but something you cant afford too frequently if you're not working, because if you're not working you should be doing something else. I know katy williams disagrees but whatever.

Hi, long time lurker (like 3 years, no kidding), first time poster.



Milton Friedman telling us how it works. Not just the obvious economic side but also the moral side. Key word = choice.
I have a strong feeling about this subject and I dont miss an oportunity to get into an interesting discussion.

For the record Im not a drug user, non-smoker and occasional alcohol user. And I still think that drug legalisation is the right way to go.

On April 15 2011 11:50 Kodiax wrote: Hi, long time lurker (like 3 years, no kidding), first time poster. Milton Friedman telling us how it works. Not just the obvious economic side but also the moral side. Key word = choice. I have a strong feeling about this subject and I dont miss an oportunity to get into an interesting discussion. For the record Im not a drug user, non-smoker and occasional alcohol user. And I still think that drug legalisation is the right way to go.

His whole view on marijuana interdiction is false. Marijuana is easily grown indoors discreetly, and is the most widely available drug of them all. Also, the prices of marijuana have not gone up at even the rate of inflation over the last 25 years.

As far as incentive to grow more potent marijuana, this is driven by demand. Anyone who has ever grown marijuana, myself being one of them, can tell you first hand that growing plants for potency is better than growing plants for yield. You can't give shitty pot away, people want quality and will balk at crap.

Nothing is driving people away from marijuana and to heroin or crack, that is laughable. Marijuana is, was, and forever will be the most popular of drugs, outside of alcohol of course.

Curtinsea,
I don't know why you think there will be a problem with "black market" weed once its legalized. Like tomatoes, most people will go to the store to buy them, and a minority of people will get it from small-time guys growing tomatoes in their backyard. It isn't a problem. The government isn't going to be expending massive resources trying to stop black market weed because it won't be +EV in tax revenue and there won't be a criminal element involved any longer.

The price that it sells for when its legal won't be incredibly high, marijuana is NOT tobacco. Companies will have to price compete with the reality that it is easy to grow and there will be many companies and locally-ran businesses competing in the market. Not to mention that in order for legalization to be massively +EV it doesn't have to turn into an enormous, tax revenue generating industry.. the halt of this absurd persecution and waste of government resources will save billions on its own, not to mention it will stop taking otherwise productive people out of the economy (and into prison).

I would be fairly certain if there was full pot legalization corporate lobbyists would get congress to ban home growing

On April 15 2011 12:48 Night2o1 wrote: Curtinsea, I don't know why you think there will be a problem with "black market" weed once its legalized. Like tomatoes, most people will go to the store to buy them, and a minority of people will get it from small-time guys growing tomatoes in their backyard. It isn't a problem.

This is a terrible comparison. In order to grow tomatoes for production, you would need more than a few plants. The yield from the same space is in no way comparable to weed.

In a space 5' wide by 10' deep I grew a supply of weed that yielded a pound of quality weed every 45 days. That's a supply for 15 stoners year round

On April 15 2011 13:10 palak wrote: I would be fairly certain if there was full pot legalization corporate lobbyists would get congress to ban home growing

This ^

Legalization proponents view it in utopian terms instead of realistic ones. Yes, you can "see" or "envision" a way where everything works out perfectly, but in order to do that, you have to discount the reality of government regulation and taxation, the effects of corporate take over, and the lobbyists they will hire to protect their investments in a burgeoning industry

curtinsea, listening to you I believe Palak just found an IQ-buddy, go and play with him and stop thinking.
Weed addiction stronger than nicotine addiction? Argument: "I gave up cigarettes 16 years ago, but not weed. I can tell you first hand which is easier to shake."
Legalizing weed would cause weed prices to skyrocket? "we would see the price of our beloved herb skyrocket."
Dude, do me a favour and kick yourself in the balls. Thanks.