healthcare passed!

very nice

gratz

oh noes socialism ! ! ! whats next cheaper higher education!!?

good

The way they passed this was pretty gross + the pork in the bill is even grosser :[

This is a good progress.

It's a good thing, but hard to judge just how good without seeing all the details of the bill. Difficult to know exactly how much reform has occurred.

Also Sven reconciliation has been used a ton of times in the past. A straight majority vote to decide the fate of the bill. Pretty sure it's more gross how many stupid people in the American system have been trying to kill healthcare reform rather than make adjustments that would improve it. Politics at it's worst.

On March 22 2010 11:48 Bejamin1 wrote: It's a good thing, but hard to judge just how good without seeing all the details of the bill. Difficult to know exactly how much reform has occurred. Also Sven reconciliation has been used a ton of times in the past. A straight majority vote to decide the fate of the bill. Pretty sure it's more gross how many stupid people in the American system have been trying to kill healthcare reform rather than make adjustments that would improve it. Politics at it's worst.

Unfortunately the way they want to improve it is getting kickbacks for their individual states, not the general reform of health care (which I don't oppose at all actually).

Okay but the questions remain. I am also strongly for healthcare reform and frankly universal healthcare.

1. What reform has occurred? What major changes have happened? Are those overall changes worth more to you than a few meaningless kickbacks that have been occurring since politics was born?

2. What evidence do you have of these individual state kickbacks? Are we talking good quality impartial sources with clear evidence or some random extreme bias like Fox news?

ive been looking around online and can't find any definitive answers on what this bill will change. i hear a lot of talk about a bill would decrease the cost of healthcare, but i don't think that's true at all, it'll likely just redistribute who pays. looking for clear answers for what's going on but my first reaction is 'oh fuck, don't pass this shit '

im still waiting for obama to put gas in my car

On March 22 2010 12:59 chris wrote: Obama pumps my gas

America waited a hundred years and fought for decades to reach this moment. '


LOL

On March 22 2010 12:59 chris wrote: im still waiting for obama to put gas in my car

I'm waiting for you to buy a car that requires less gas

so is obama

i think this is very good

just wondering how the us can afford this.

sigh......

On March 22 2010 12:02 Bejamin1 wrote: Okay but the questions remain. I am also strongly for healthcare reform and frankly universal healthcare. 1. What reform has occurred? What major changes have happened? Are those overall changes worth more to you than a few meaningless kickbacks that have been occurring since politics was born? 2. What evidence do you have of these individual state kickbacks? Are we talking good quality impartial sources with clear evidence or some random extreme bias like Fox news?

how can you support something when you don't even know what it is you are supporting. you might support the idea of this health care, but not living in America you probably have no idea of the changes that this bill will bring

On March 22 2010 13:49 gororokgororok wrote: i think this is very good just wondering how the us can afford this.

It phases out portions of medicare (which were getting ridiculously expensive) in place of this reform, which is a cheaper version. That coupled with tax increases for those who make 200k+ and a tax on business who have more than 50 people working for them if they don't supply their workers with their on care is where the majority of the money is coming from. Also a 2% penalty tax or $650 (whatever is higher) if you refuse to get your own plan and work for a business that doesn't provide it.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.4872:

as per TL thread yesterday, this is the most up-to-date version of the bill...

I personally think this whole thing is in the wrong direction. We don't need more regulation, this is just more wal-street robbery imo. We need actual reform and a real open market. Not something so regulated it's insane.

The notion of "universal health care" isn't really correct, 5% of the country still won't have any. Also, "universal" and "equal," you are obviously going to get better care on a private plan than a public one if you can afford it.

The backroom deals and procedural stuff is all red herring diversions. Have a debate about whether its worth the cost of society to cover 31million more people in the country, or that insurance companies shouldn't be allowed to have monopolies over people's health. That's where the debate really lays, and that's fine I feel, but politically its bad to say "I don't want to cover more americans, and big business is more important that health for all," although I think good arguments can be made for that point of view. Those who oppose health care turn it into other arguments though to make it politically more appealing. The bill does restrict business and a lot of people who don't work that hard and destroy their bodies smoking 3 packs a day and eating at mcdonalds will get benefits that others will have to pay for, so its a legit point.

My opinion that open markets are normally the best option, except when it comes to essentials like health. I think it's an ugly business when insurance companies make money by making it difficult to pay for care when you need it, or providers gouging costs because they know insurance companies have to pay.

this is why i'd rather have Palin as the president..

fucking liberals trying to redistribute wealth to people who don't work as hard. Sickens me how much our governement intervenes with the economy more and more each day. Let capitalism do its job plz and let companies fail/succeed.

FCK ALL YOU BABY KILLERS

On March 22 2010 15:15 flounder44 wrote: this is why i'd rather have Palin as the president.. fucking liberals trying to redistribute wealth to people who don't work as hard. Sickens me how much our governement intervenes with the economy more and more each day. Let capitalism do its job plz and let PEOPLE DIE.

FYP

I'm okay with health care - just not for drug dealers, people who test positive for drugs, or another shitty individuals... Also get them off welfare plx.

Our welfare system really doesn't let people be on it for that long, especially compared to the EU

On March 22 2010 15:35 JizzleSmitts wrote: Our welfare system really doesn't let people be on it for that long, especially compared to the EU

Oh I know, but if I'm going to pay into the system, I don't want it to go to drugs or booze. I think it's such a no brainer to have drug testing for welfare

On March 22 2010 15:47 Svenman87 wrote: Show nested quote + On March 22 2010 15:35 JizzleSmitts wrote: Our welfare system really doesn't let people be on it for that long, especially compared to the EU Oh I know, but if I'm going to pay into the system, I don't want it to go to drugs or booze. I think it's such a no brainer to have drug testing for welfare

medical marijuana yadig?

so does this mean i get free healthcare without doing shit? cause that sounds good

But does the drug testing cost more than the welfare :D?

well enjoy your moment Obama fanboys, you just wait when he sends his communist deathsquads to hunt down ordinary working americans.

fucking liberals trying to redistribute wealth to people who don't work as hard. Sickens me how much our governement intervenes with the economy more and more each day. Let capitalism do its job plz and let companies fail/succeed.

Fucking capitalists distribute wealth to people who do not work.

A picture says more than thousand words:



Does the 1% work more than the bottom 90%?

On March 22 2010 15:15 flounder44 wrote: this is why i'd rather have Palin as the president.. fucking liberals trying to redistribute wealth to people who don't work as hard. Sickens me how much our governement intervenes with the economy more and more each day. Let capitalism do its job plz and let companies fail/succeed.

Easy to say until it happens to you. How would you like to be born with diabetes in a family without healthcare, but earn your way to a high paying salary graduating from college and working as an anesthetist? Only to realize you cant get your diabetes covered and will have to pay about $500 a month alone out of pocket just to deal with that, on top of any insurance you actually qualify for.

Oh wait thats my friend, and not you. Probably why you dont give a fuck. Good thing I do.

lol

I wonder if Flounder will answer.