good bluff deep?

villain and me have some history, I've 3betting alot his CO open and I've folded once before to his 4bet...

if you dont like this please explain me why and stuff, dont bother writing just to flame me
Submitted by : tutz

***** Hand History for Game 39449621967 ***** Poker Stars
$25.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, February 08, 09:50:48 ET 2010
Table Muscida II Real Money
Seat 2 is the button
Seat 1: ludde_M88 $22.75 USD
Seat 2: Macroscopic $26.80 USD
Seat 3: infine8 $40.15 USD
Seat 4: All1npoker $25.35 USD
Seat 5: Biene1978 $52.80 USD
Seat 6: Hero $62.75 USD
infine8 posts small blind [$0.10 USD].
All1npoker posts big blind [$0.25 USD].

Holecards
Dealt to Hero [ ]
Biene1978 raises [$1.00 USD]
Hero raises [$3.00 USD]
ludde_M88 folds
Macroscopic folds
infine8 folds
All1npoker folds
Biene1978 raises [$7.50 USD]
Hero calls [$5.50 USD]

Flop (Pot : $16.35)

   
Biene1978 bets [$8.00 USD]
Hero raises [$18.00 USD]

I'd flat pre.

On February 08 2010 18:26 Maynard! wrote: I'd flat pre.

+1

yea flat pf..youre going to get into gay spots every time you flop an overpair here.

3betting is not bad deep cuz he will call with a superwide range of any 2 suited cards and any pocket worse then JJ,

"dont raise JJ-QQ or AK deep because we dont wanna get it in" shit

cuz ppl will call with a superwide range and we should be happy 3betting JJ and QQ, makes no sense not too rofl


but maybe thats just me


regarding this play ur not repping anything at all since it makes no sense for you to be raising the CB with AK if u think he only gives action with AA

but if he is a non thinker he will prolly just muck every bluffs/KK so w/e i dunno

if we have any postflop skillz at all we should open up our value 3betting range deep instead of tightening it up lol

atleast IP

You're going to be making MP almost always w/ JJ. You're going to make it very awkward to play w/ almost every single flop. His range to start out with is very strong. Just seems like a spot where bad things will happen almost always if you play like this esp without any strong reads.

I don't play that often deep but this doesn't seem like a spot you want to be playing JJ like this.

didnt even see it was UTG vs UTG+1, hmm maybe 3betting is kinda awkward i agree

but my post was more in general anyways :-)

cuz imo alot of ppl is so afraid of getting it in 200bb deep with JJ-QQ pre that they dont even 3bet it when ppls calling range is widen by aaaaaaalot, cuz every1 wanna win a 400bb pot so ppl will start calling oop with alot alot alot of suited shit

but i prolly should shut up here cuz im just talking about other shit then this hand =D

ur making moves that require reads that you seem to be making. only you know if you are right. seems like you are trying to convince us.

WTF ARE YOU DOING

dat's really bad lol

Seems like you are just randomly making plays because you have no particular reason to do anything of what you are doing.

hmm
why is it bad?
someone?
poker theory please..

On February 09 2010 00:43 Fayth wrote: dat's really bad lol

what's wrong with my logic?
seriously, I really would like to hear some good advices about this cause I don't see what's wrong with my read but I guess this is bad since some of you said it is...

your trying to wayyyyyyy to hard to outsmart someone....brains r not needed against some players, just a winning hand lmfao

ya woteva

200x in direct position ud be able to mathrape him hard anyways and without putting 80x in against AA KK with JJ

if u were gud as u think u r u'd know this but ur making poasts

Try to think about this hand... Just don't see your holecard. What do you think you're doing by this way ? The only thing you could be representing here is AK only. Your bluff makes non sense. Glad that the player didn't think about it more deeply.
Maybe i'd do that if i know the player isn't thinking too much and then i'd raise this flop in order to fold QQ or KK, but that's like i'd do it once for 1 millions of hands.

Check your pm, tried analyzing as good as I could, before reading comments or watching result. My nick on pokerstars is Mariuslol <---

On February 09 2010 06:41 Mariuslol wrote: Check your pm, tried analyzing as good as I could, before reading comments or watching result. My nick on pokerstars is Mariuslol <---

post it on my blog so everyone can see that u wrote something!

he's not calling your 3b oop deep with anything that doesn't beat/murder you. I'd say 75% of his range would be shipping here

On February 09 2010 07:03 AznFisherman wrote: he's not calling your 3b oop deep with anything that doesn't beat/murder you. I'd say 75% of his range would be shipping here

he didnt called my 3bet, he 4betted small
I think his 3betting calling range is much wider

I think I can see clearly now why this can be bad
thanks everyone!

does floating in this spot sounds possible to anyone?
I think u'll be much better floating here- u rep AK much better+u get to see if he's scared or not.
I dont think anything that folds to your flop raise will fire a 2nd barrel on the turn, so u can pick it up there...

you'd have to have a read that he 4bets deep with air cause it looks really strong, but tbh i don't think anyone thinks on those levels at these stakes. i mean i don't mind it tbh just cause i think he's gonna get scared as shit even with AK here, and no underpair is gonna continue here deep.

Bad spot to 3B JJ in my opinion and you should definitely be folding to his 4B; however, your biggest mistake is assuming that he won't be 4Bing AK when you seem to have built a very aggressive 3Bing dynamic with him. Based on your PF read, all you should really be doing is attempting to set mine if you have the right odds and you think the villain is likely to stack off with AA or KK for 200BB... you don't even have the odds for that though :/.

Mistake of 3Bing -> Mistake calling of 4B -> Bad Bluff

To any competent player ur hand looks like air.

Even so, if ur gonna do this. U might as well 5 bet in pre. It is higly optimistic he will fold kk or qq here since ur hand doesn't make sense ur repoing aq and that's the only value hand here. Maybe ak but that is unlikely. In fact I have no clue what u rep here.

Unless ur oppo is a Weak tight donk. This line sucks.

WHY IS THIS THREAD STILLLL GOINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

On February 09 2010 16:10 Zalfor wrote: To any competent player ur hand looks like air. Even so, if ur gonna do this. U might as well 5 bet in pre. It is higly optimistic he will fold kk or qq here since ur hand doesn't make sense ur repoing aq and that's the only value hand here. Maybe ak but that is unlikely. In fact I have no clue what u rep here. Unless ur oppo is a Weak tight donk. This line sucks.

its bad agreed and looks kinda airy but he could have AK/AQ. I mean some ppl are going to flat it over 5b 200deep and thats what he reps when he raises here. the dude who 4bet and cbet here is likely air himself and doubt he is going to have the stones to rebluff. all in all this is bad but its not like once he gets to the flop like this by raising he is going to just get shit on by some great handreader.

I 3 bet JJ from any position in 6-max, deep or not. I think its a mistake to do anything other than 3 bet as you can get weaker holdings to fold (or enter a pot as a favorite) and whether he flats or repops its all more information to you entering the flop.

FYI, if you really think 'he either has AA and top set or nothing at all' then raising with JJ isn't a bluff, your putting him on a bluff and raising with what you think is the best hand.

On February 10 2010 10:41 breaktwister wrote: I 3 bet JJ from any position in 6-max, deep or not. I think its a mistake to do anything other than 3 bet as you can get weaker holdings to fold (or enter a pot as a favorite) and whether he flats or repops its all more information to you entering the flop. FYI, if you really think 'he either has AA and top set or nothing at all' then raising with JJ isn't a bluff, your putting him on a bluff and raising with what you think is the best hand.

actually no cause I want him to fold KK and QQ besides air

you beat air, so really only trying to get him to fold KK and QQ; however, if he flats AK then he's flatting QQ....... so trying to get him to fold KK

On February 10 2010 10:41 breaktwister wrote: I 3 bet JJ from any position in 6-max, deep or not. I think its a mistake to do anything other than 3 bet as you can get weaker holdings to fold (or enter a pot as a favorite) and whether he flats or repops its all more information to you entering the flop. FYI, if you really think 'he either has AA and top set or nothing at all' then raising with JJ isn't a bluff, your putting him on a bluff and raising with what you think is the best hand.

you need to rethink why youre 3betting JJ if one of your reasons is to get weaker holdings to fold. thats exactly what you dont want to do.