why do people shortstack? - Page 4

leave and open up a 50bb table

On November 18 2008 12:55 [vital]Myth wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2008 11:48 hawking wrote: If you are ever shoving all your money in no matter how much you have left, you are doing it for one purpose and one purpose only. To get called ...no, you are very often shoving to get people to fold. if you play MTTs you are more familiar with this concept (3bet bluffing allin with 15-20 BBs) than anything else. and most retarded breakeven shortstacks at $1/2 happen to be dumb nits who only shove good hands and are somehow convinced that it's smart, but the HUGE majority of winning shortstackers are shoving to make you fold FAR more often than for any other reason. they are shoving A4, KJ, T9s, etc. they know that when you open for 3.5 BB you can have a huge range of hands and you can't call very often, so they shove anything with marginally good equity against your calling range, to capitalize on the huge amount of fold equity they have shortstackers are not shoving to get called. some shortstackers happen to be dumb and nits, but your perception of shortstacking in a general sense is way way way off

Well in tourneys yes I realize shoving is for FE. But I never looked at shortstacking cash games as FE. But you say "they shove anything with marginally good equity against your calling range" this would seem to me to suggest they often expect to be called, and that they must know hands like T9s are not good against your calling range, hence the desire to be a nitty shortstacker and shove whatever they think can actually beat your calling range, rather than fold you out. Not arguing with you however, just never looked at it like that. I mean every time I see a shortstacked they frequently get action and KJ and A4 just seem to be a huge spew.

On November 18 2008 22:28 hawking wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2008 12:55 [vital]Myth wrote:   On November 18 2008 11:48 hawking wrote: If you are ever shoving all your money in no matter how much you have left, you are doing it for one purpose and one purpose only. To get called ...no, you are very often shoving to get people to fold. if you play MTTs you are more familiar with this concept (3bet bluffing allin with 15-20 BBs) than anything else. and most retarded breakeven shortstacks at $1/2 happen to be dumb nits who only shove good hands and are somehow convinced that it's smart, but the HUGE majority of winning shortstackers are shoving to make you fold FAR more often than for any other reason. they are shoving A4, KJ, T9s, etc. they know that when you open for 3.5 BB you can have a huge range of hands and you can't call very often, so they shove anything with marginally good equity against your calling range, to capitalize on the huge amount of fold equity they have shortstackers are not shoving to get called. some shortstackers happen to be dumb and nits, but your perception of shortstacking in a general sense is way way way off Well in tourneys yes I realize shoving is for FE. But I never looked at shortstacking cash games as FE. But you say "they shove anything with marginally good equity against your calling range" this would seem to me to suggest they often expect to be called, and that they must know hands like T9s are not good against your calling range, hence the desire to be a nitty shortstacker and shove whatever they think can actually beat your calling range, rather than fold you out. Not arguing with you however, just never looked at it like that. I mean every time I see a shortstacked they frequently get action and KJ and A4 just seem to be a huge spew.

"good" shortstackers like sodom adjust their range to include shit like A8+, 55+, and will shove that shit every time they sense u opened wide. thats why minraising or 3xing into shorties discourages them since they have to risk more to win less

On November 18 2008 12:55 [vital]Myth wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2008 11:48 hawking wrote: If you are ever shoving all your money in no matter how much you have left, you are doing it for one purpose and one purpose only. To get called ...no, you are very often shoving to get people to fold. if you play MTTs you are more familiar with this concept (3bet bluffing allin with 15-20 BBs) than anything else. and most retarded breakeven shortstacks at $1/2 happen to be dumb nits who only shove good hands and are somehow convinced that it's smart, but the HUGE majority of winning shortstackers are shoving to make you fold FAR more often than for any other reason. they are shoving A4, KJ, T9s, etc. they know that when you open for 3.5 BB you can have a huge range of hands and you can't call very often, so they shove anything with marginally good equity against your calling range, to capitalize on the huge amount of fold equity they have shortstackers are not shoving to get called. some shortstackers happen to be dumb and nits, but your perception of shortstacking in a general sense is way way way off

agrreed ive shortstacked befor and it was more profitable to make people fold then to do flips

thats 10 ss buyins though!


-Hawking; not really sure that much of what you wrote there is correct

shorties make bread off resteals

fascinating, never looked at it like that. Most likely b/c of my personal raising range does not include flipping against shorties (I am a nit afterall), and they seem to dwell at higher stakes. I always assumed they were playing 3/6 and up just to big skilless donks who can exploit big money players who dont give a fuck.

Guess the ss at higher levels are better, at 100nl they suck so bad. Annoying, but kind of easy to play them, just a mathematical problem. I was wondering how dumbo2000 make a profit or the dude with the little mermaid avatar, guess fpp.

Full Tilt Poker Game #9067762216: Table Kennedy (6 max) - $50/$100 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:58:55 ET - 2008/11/19
Seat 1: jman5j23 ($4,300)
Seat 2: Legend ($1,794)
Seat 3: luvtheWNBA ($10,597)
Seat 4: whatariver1 ($12,096)
Seat 5: pr1nnyraid ($13,295)
Seat 6: SamH133 ($12,147)
Legend posts the small blind of $50
luvtheWNBA posts the big blind of $100
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
whatariver1 raises to $300
pr1nnyraid raises to $1,050
SamH133 folds
jman5j23 folds
Legend raises to $1,794, and is all in
luvtheWNBA folds
whatariver1 folds
pr1nnyraid calls $744
Legend shows [As Ac]
pr1nnyraid shows [Td 7d]
*** FLOP *** [3d 3c Qc]
*** TURN *** [3d 3c Qc]
*** RIVER *** [3d 3c Qc Kc]
Legend shows a flush, Ace high
pr1nnyraid shows two pair, Sevens and Threes
Legend wins the pot ($3,985) with a flush, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $3,988 | Rake $3
Board: [3d 3c Qc Kc 7c]
Seat 1: jman5j23 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Legend (small blind) showed [As Ac] and won ($3,985) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 3: luvtheWNBA (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: whatariver1 folded before the Flop
Seat 5: pr1nnyraid showed [Td 7d] and lost with two pair, Sevens and Threes
Seat 6: SamH133 didn't bet (folded)

This is also a situation where a shortstacker would make 750$ more than what a fullstack's 4bet would make.

Shortstacking may acctually be good in aggressive games imo.

Knowing that he did that within 4 hours of playing is a lot more impressive. (And with the minimal risk)