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Part 4 - A Taste of Pleasure

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k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 10 2018 20:35. Posts 3450

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I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 26/12/2018 06:25

Loco   Canada. Dec 10 2018 22:30. Posts 20104

"What does she want from me? "

Think you've answered your own question already, buddy. You're plan B. You're just in the denial phase. You have to realize that if you settle for that, your desperation will be obvious, and no girl loves a man with no self-respect. Your best chance at getting her back is actually not contacting her again, even if she writes to you. Unless she makes it clear that she wants to be with you and no one else, and regrets stringing you along, you should no longer speak to her. It's also the best thing you can do for yourself.

Those who make a peaceful revolution impossible, will make a violent revolution inevitable. 

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Dec 11 2018 01:01. Posts 8960

She could feel strong about you and still not get enough of what she needs. You should end it and move on.

Also, why the fuck would you spy on her. She made it clear you're not together, but more importantly why would you lurk for information which would give you zero benefit? What Loco said could be true, but there could be about 5 different things that pop into my head that would still make sense, even if she was with someone at that moment. Gratz, you played yourself, now learn and move on.

I'm all for absolute knowledge, but in practice its better to not know some things, otherwise you could put yourself in a situation where you don't sleep normally for months... and for what? Cause your genes gave you high reactivity and you did everything possible to trigger it in a negative manner.

You sound very insecure and not in a way led due to your connection to someone on a deeper level, but in general. You should start learning how to respect yourself first and then worry about everything else.

What Lemon meant by breakups = personal growth is due to his disposition to breakups. You could either let it turn you into a better version of yourself, or allow yourself to dwell into self-destructive actions which will later require even more time to fix. There isn't really a decision to be made between the two...

P.S. I might sound a bit harsh, but thats cause the situation you find yourself in really reminds me of myself a few years back and the path I took and how much time I needed to learn things that seem quite simple and obvious if you're "sober". She might be the best, kindest, smarters person you've ever met, that doesn't change shit. Appreciate what you had and move on. Loco's advice on not contacting her at all is indeed your best chance and its also the most optimal one, whichever way the situation develops in. Case one, you get back together. Case two, you've initiated the recovery period. If she is an admirable person, she will act accordingly in either scenario and either make sure to get back with you or let you go.

 Last edit: 11/12/2018 01:03

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 11 2018 04:13. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:24

RiKD    United States. Dec 11 2018 04:13. Posts 5908

I have 4 suggestions. You can do all four or none.

1.) Go on a bit of a bender or at least some decent debauchery in social venues

2.) Eat some shrooms and go into the forest

3.) Take some MDMA and go to a rave.

4.) Get a new therapist:
a.) Get helped by new therapist
b.) Inevitably fall in love with new therapist
c.) Both

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 11 2018 04:23. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:25

RiKD    United States. Dec 11 2018 04:28. Posts 5908

I would play it a different way. Treat her like an ex that you want to be amicable with but be somewhat brusque with her in communication. The latter is kind of tricky because ideally you want to be over her and leading an awesome life. The question is what do you do when you've had a bad day and you are eating McDonald's alone in your apartment and get a text from her at 10pm? The no communication play works because you don't do anything stupid. It severs the attachment sooner.

RiKD    United States. Dec 11 2018 04:37. Posts 5908

  On December 11 2018 03:23 k4ir0s wrote:
Show nested quote +

Rofl. I started seeing my old therapist. She accepted seeing me again. All is good though, my feelings for have passed. I prefer option 1. Went to a bar after she broke up with me. Two hours later I got a woman's number, who told me she had a hotel room nearby. She was hot, and also older, but my mind was on the ex. Still haven't called her.

You have to get more drunk. Having sex with that women would most likely be mostly vapid with some good points and some orgasms. For me after orgasm it was always like what do I do now? Mostly smoke cigarettes or joints and it all seemed to work out until it didn't but that's besides the point. We are trying to get this all out of your system. Who knows what will actually happen. You could go back to the hotel room and have great sex and be snapped out of the trance or you could go to the hotel room and feel like nothing is complete like it was with Her. This is an exploration process.

Loco   Canada. Dec 11 2018 04:48. Posts 20104

  On December 11 2018 03:13 k4ir0s wrote:
Show nested quote +

Yes I'm probably in denial. Definitely in denial. But her stringing me along and accepting my invitations confuses me. You're right about self-respect. I've been knowingly sacrificing my pride in order to get her back.

Though I'm trying to understand your logic. I understand going no contact. But to not reply to her when she writes me? How is ignoring her going to increase the odds of getting her back. If anything, I feel that I should set up a date if she contacts me.

She has an avoidant attachment style. Whoever she's seeing (likely her ex before me) is only a casual partner. It's how she coping with the breakup. She's afraid of emotional closeness and of commitment. I doubt this other guy has any chance long term. I'm not sure where that leaves me in her plan.

It's very simple. Keep this mantra in mind, write it down if you must. "Don't make someone a priority when they only see you as an option."

This person has broken up with you. This means that they do not currently see a future with you. Anything that doesn't precisely say that they were wrong in doing so is what we call "breadcrumbs". It's testing the waters, seeing how much respect you have for yourself. How much power she (still) has over you. Typically, when they write to you after breaking up with you, it is to assuage their own guilt, or to keep you as a back up. If you are weak and you show that you are still interested in merely breadcrumbs, they will not be interested in having a serious relationship with you.

If they still have you as an option, they'll either use it when they feel lonely and bored, and you will hate yourself for it, or they'll simply become distant again, ghost you, or give you cold responses. Either way, you will always be reminded of what you lost. You should read all of the reasons to go no contact here. It's not easy, it's a long process for many, and progress is not linear, but the sooner you are able to stick to it, the better off you will be.

  She has an avoidant attachment style.

Knowing her attachment style is something that might have had relevance when you were still with this person. You are not anymore. Also keep in mind that you might not know her as well as you think you do and she might have a more serious personality disorder. If she cannot be alone, she could have BPD. She is obviously quite immature, breaking up by text (something that's typical BPD). You've even used the word 'discarded' here which is the word victims of those with BPD/NPD use all the time. Fear of engulfment (closeness) is also a hallmark of BPD. If she does have undiagnosed BPD then I can help you as I have a lot of knowledge and experience with it. You should read this article and look up the diagnostic criteria.

Those who make a peaceful revolution impossible, will make a violent revolution inevitable.Last edit: 11/12/2018 05:12

Baalim   Mexico. Dec 11 2018 06:59. Posts 33191

for fucks sake... she manipulates you to keep you as a safety net and you beg her and grovel to a girl who is fucking another guy... both of you are toxic.

Its over, get that into your head, and its actually a great thing, you dont have to waste any more time with a woman who cleary isn't someone you want to spend the rest of your life with, move on, work on yourself so you stop doing creepy shit like rolling past their house at 1am and find a better girl, get a hold of yourself

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro OnlineLast edit: 11/12/2018 09:40

K40Cheddar   United States. Dec 11 2018 08:04. Posts 2194

lol women


Baalim   Mexico. Dec 11 2018 09:49. Posts 33191

Also yes brake ups should make you grow up and become a better person, we are forged through trials and tribulations and each hit of the hammer is painful, so dont run away from this, embrace it or you will become either soft and frail or hard and resentful.

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online 

moonk379   United States. Dec 11 2018 12:52. Posts 355

Just dont text or talk to her for a week. If she is still interested in any way, she will text you. And also deny meeting if she does text. Will make her thjnk more. If not then just move on.

ill wit it 

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 11 2018 20:54. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:25

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 11 2018 21:04. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:25

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 11 2018 21:09. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:25

Loco   Canada. Dec 11 2018 23:11. Posts 20104

  On December 11 2018 19:54 k4ir0s wrote:
Show nested quote +

Okay. I read through the reasons for no contact. Makes sense. I'll go no contact up to a certain point, because I would like to still get back together. It's not like we ended on bad terms. When I look back at the relationship there were very few bad moments. I'm not sure if her actions qualify as breadcrumbs, because I am the one who initiates contact. She's always very responsive and friendly, telling me about her day etc. And she's been accepting my dinner invitations. It's seems like more than breadcrumbs to me.

I'll stop initiating until she shows effort. If she texts me casually I'll respond casually. If she invites me over or out for drinks then I'll accept.

I don't believe she has BFD. She seems sane and is a high functioning person, very impressive woman. She's not emotionally unstable. If anything she's emotionally closed off, afraid of commitment and being vulnerable. When we had serious talks about emotions she would literally squirm in her chair. When I talked to her about being official, she squirmed in her chair,but ultimately agreed. When I discussed my need and wanting to see each other more often the same thing happened. When I'd confess to her at the end of a great weekend how I felt about her, she would in turn distant herself the following week. Really strange behavior. One evening I told her "farewell", then my phone died for a few days. When I got it fixed I received a few voicemails from her where she seemed anxious and asked to see me again. It's the first time she called me ever. She thought my "farewell" was goodbye for good.

At the beginning of our relationship everything was different. She didn't "love bomb" me-- she never used the love word. But she was constantly inviting me over, inviting me out. Always showing affection. Talking of future plans, like moving to a different province and starting anew together. Talking of moving in together and travelling. Now that I look back at all of that there is no way she was serious about any of it. No way that any of it was an actual consideration. All that talk stopped a few months in. I felt baited, though maybe it was unconscious behavior by her. A few months later she admitted that she doesn't like hugs from anyone. She would start asking me to stay on my side of the bed and how she can't sleep if I'm too close, and how she desires a king size bed. Less affection. She told me what I wanted to hear at the beginning. Then when we get close and start falling in love she leaves and blames it on age, when age was never an obstacle before. All very confusing to me.

Does any of this seem like BPD?

Obviously it didn't make sense to you if you're going "no contact up to a certain point". No contact means no contact, period. You're just not ready yet, you don't have the self-respect and the desire to heal. You'll have to suffer more. Limited contact is only an option for people who have children with their ex, not people who are addicted to someone who discarded them. "Just give me an another dose, up to a certain point." Ever hear a junkie successfully quit with such an attitude?

Some confusion about breadcrumbs. What are breadcrumbs? "Basically any contact from the dumper that does not communicate the clear intent of reconciliation. And YES, this includes: “I miss you,” “How are you doing? I care about you and hope you’re doing okay,” “I’m sorry it has to be this way,” “You still mean so much to me,” etc. Nowhere in these texts do they convey the need to start again or work on the relationship. As tempting as it may be to respond in kind (and trust me I ALWAYS speak from experience), what often happens is the dumper backs off in contact again the moment they are aware that you are still willing to get back together with them at a moment’s notice." So yes, you are dealing with them right now.

And you know the worst part of it? It's that by answering to them you are making her other romantic relationships better. Instead of making her feel the weight of losing you, you make her feel better about her decision because you are not forcing her to make a choice! You implicitly say, 'it's okay that you treated me like this - I'm still into you!'. Even though you don't feel this way, your actions are betraying you. She gets the best out of both worlds by using you and she gets to test your limits. You are complementing her current lifestyle; there's no risk for her to sleep with other men, so why the hell would she go back to being exclusive with you?. She knows you're desperate if you're always just one phone call from a few drinks and you're not establishing boundaries with her. And, if she was a good person, she'd know that you are in pain, and that she should stay away rather than give you false hope.

Some confusion about lovebombing. Lovebombing doesn't mean that they are bombing you with the word 'love'. What it means is that they are doing things that demonstrate an unhealthy attachment with someone they haven't known for very long. Making serious plans to move in/marry/have a child with someone after a few weeks or months is often part of it. When you say "there's no way she was serious" this is often what a neurotypical person will think looking back, as they try to make sense of a situation that doesn't make any sense, because the other individual is disordered and doesn't use logic to make their decisions. I'm not saying she has BPD, but if she did, you would have no clue why she does what she does. They are driven by impulsion -- not rational self-interest. They rationalize their impulsive actions instead of using rationality to prevent them.

I would have to know a lot more about her to tell you if it sounds like BPD. Right now, there are some red flags for sure. She could have a few traits (and many borderlines are high functioning). Either way, she's not good for you, and you will never be happy pursuing this person. Even if she wants you back, you'd have to deal with that unpredictability, that ability of hers to blindside you and leave any minute; it would never go away. Realistically, she is almost guaranteed to do it again. She has had those patterns of behavior basically forever, and she is old enough to be less adaptive (the brain becomes less plastic over time, making conscious change more difficult).

This might help you:

Those who make a peaceful revolution impossible, will make a violent revolution inevitable.Last edit: 12/12/2018 03:38

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Dec 11 2018 23:25. Posts 8960

She's not obliged to you in any way and she's obviously not gonna be interested in you for friend purposes considering all things atm. It really doesn't matter who she spends her nights with, you're not involved. You're crossing borders and going in circles.

She's taking advantage regardless of whether she realizes it or not thus ===> everything else that people said in the thread previously

Trav94   Canada. Dec 12 2018 00:57. Posts 1752

I can't say I'm surprised at this outcome and how you handled it. I feel like I'm reliving a part of my past when I read your blog. I'm not as articulate as Loco however, so I'll just say that everything he's said so far is right on the money.

 Last edit: 12/12/2018 01:11

Baalim   Mexico. Dec 12 2018 01:38. Posts 33191

  On December 11 2018 20:04 k4ir0s wrote:
Show nested quote +

I'm toxic? No I don't think so. I'm just inexperienced. This is my first real relationship in a decade. How do you expect me to act when finally falling for someone after being alone for so long? And as for her fucking another guy.. well, we're both single now. Rebounds are not uncommon. The only issue I have with that is her concealing it and continuing to go out with me for dinner in a non-friendly way, where she dresses up and greets me with a kiss.

Dont take the word too literally, I didn't mean anything specific with it, Indeed you are inexperienced, most of us have gone through many breakhearts its painful and its natural to cling since we see that as an exit to try to avoid the pain of loss but it doesn't take a genius to know its wrong, it takes objectivity which is very difficult in your situation so you have to find the will power to do it.

I'm not telling you not to be sad or to muscle through your feellings, what I'm saying is to stop pursuing a woman who clearly isn't the love of your life, get away, get well and emotionally stable and then if it turns out she was indeed the right woman then you will be able to get back with her, but you are not in the position to judge that, just take the hit, suffer what must be suffered and move on.

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online 

Loco   Canada. Dec 12 2018 03:44. Posts 20104

I actually kind of like the word toxic. If you think about it, inexperienced and immature people are toxic towards themselves (and it is because they are on that same level that they attract each other). They're different but they both don't know any better: they make poor decisions, decisions that will not generate desired results in the long-term and will cause pain. Doing so with great repetition can be thought of as toxic behavior, and the source could be said to be a lack of self-love/self-worth.

Those who make a peaceful revolution impossible, will make a violent revolution inevitable.Last edit: 12/12/2018 03:46

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Dec 13 2018 00:45. Posts 8960

Kind of true, but kind of also subjective when it comes to attracting each other. Would say its strongly individual.

Anyway, Baal's advice on embracing the pain is what we all meant. It sucks, everyone has been through it (if someone here hasn't then congrats to you.. you luckbox) just focus on coping with it in a healthy way rather than lashing out. That's the most important part imo, it's also the part where you grow

Seems like you're paying the bills by playing poker so I'd say you should carefully observe your mentality and act accordingly when it comes to poker. Most poker pros usually turn off everything else except the game, when they're playing, but you could still be affected regardless.

 Last edit: 13/12/2018 00:47

Loco   Canada. Dec 13 2018 01:43. Posts 20104

Attraction in the context of being in a relationship with someone. I should have precised that I meant the type of inexperience that leads a person to settle out of desperation, because they don't think they are worth more (they have nothing to compare it to). So, that's not subjective. They've been alone for too long and anyone who pays attention to them, no matter how toxic and immature, can become an object of obsession. And a person who is toxic and immature essentially preys on such people, because they also can't be alone and they don't manage to fool experienced people for long, since they've seen those red flags before and they get out before it's too late.

And that feeling (not wanting to be alone) gets amplified at this current time of the year too. It's important to have hobbies and friends to help you make it through.

Those who make a peaceful revolution impossible, will make a violent revolution inevitable.Last edit: 13/12/2018 01:49

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 13 2018 06:10. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:26

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 13 2018 06:18. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:26

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 13 2018 06:30. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:26

Loco   Canada. Dec 13 2018 07:33. Posts 20104

Anything that didn't involve you being physically hurt would seem to be good after 10 years alone if you got to empty your balls once in a while. Truth is, she's awful. And that's just the stuff you're aware of...

Competition is a funny thing. As far as I can tell, you're not competing with anyone, you're complementing them. The ones who are competing are the ones who get most of her time. What looks like fighting to you looks like clinginess and a lack of self-worth to them. And it's just basic human psychology not to find neediness attractive. I think you might have watched to many romantic movies from the 90s. In the real world, the "good guy" who sticks around after he's been rejected doesn't end up getting what he wants, ever.

And you shouldn't want to be with someone who threatens your relationship when you have normal reactions to their behavior either. If someone's going to fight for someone, it should be because they were the one who made the bulk of the mistakes in the relationship and they think they can do better and deeply and consistently regret that it ended largely because of them. The reason your relationship ended is because you wanted different things (whether she was honest or not), and that's very unlikely to change, so you should let it go instead of pouring salt in the wound.

Those who make a peaceful revolution impossible, will make a violent revolution inevitable.Last edit: 13/12/2018 07:47

Trav94   Canada. Dec 13 2018 11:17. Posts 1752

  On December 13 2018 05:30 k4ir0s wrote:
However there was another red flat that I could not understand. She sometimes tried to make me jealous and spark a reaction out of me. Like the time when she spoke about letting a male friend sleep over in her guest room for a few days while he was in town. I expressed my discomfort of the idea and there was some conflict. In the end I found out that it was extremely unlikely that he was coming to town. Another time she spoke about going golfing with male friends out of town and staying in a hotel. That was fine, but again it didn't happen and was very unlikely to pan out anyways, yet she mentioned it in detail. Another time while cuddling on the couch and watching a movie she was texting a male friend throughout most of the movie and I never budged-- I knew she was fishing for a reaction. She could obv tell I was annoyed yet continued. Then eventually she tells me "Hey I might visit him while out of town and watch this movie with him, and eat edibles together" (This is married friend). Holy fuck did that bother me. She was fishing for a reaction. She doesn't even eat edibles or does drugs, and again... going out of town didn't happen. She often built these possible scenarios up to get a jealous reaction out of me. I mostly ignored them. That was the one big red flag that I could not stand, and neither could I understand it. Or the time when we went out for dinner and she was basically flirting with the waiter in front of me: tapping his shoulder, giggling and conversing way too much. At the end of the night she told me she didn't even know his name, yet has known him for years.

This is what you want to fight for? A woman that constantly tries to upset you by acting incredibly inappropriate with other men. She's keeping you on the back burning while she fucks her ex/some other guy. You're the beta in waiting. The guy she will "take back" after all her other prospects have dried up. Then once she takes you back she'll continue to disrespect the fuck out of you. The sad part is, you'll just roll over and take it because you have no self respect and have put this washed up slut on a pedestal.

You could find a nice, hot 25 year old with very little baggage that could look up to you and respect you for the man you are. Instead you're going to waste incredible amounts of time on an old woman who has zero respect for you, and is using you for your time and attention.

 Last edit: 13/12/2018 11:18

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Dec 13 2018 15:55. Posts 8960

oh boy does she sound toxic, she sounds manipulative and edgy as fuck but not even in a challenging, interesting way. Women could use manipulation in a very intriguing way, without the aim to do something hurtful to the other side, yet she sounds like someone crawling to take control but not really being sure how, so she acted like a child would when things don't go its way. This woman doesn't sound like she respects anyone, not even herself and she probably hates herself for that, instead of finding a way to fix it. You're trying to crawl your way back into an emotional rollercoaster that does not end with a dose of adrenaline and happiness.

also I'm bookmarking this thread to read the posts of Loco after a breakup :D

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Dec 13 2018 19:59. Posts 15016

  On December 10 2018 19:35 k4ir0s wrote:
Continued from my last blog. AKA looks or game II
I'll bold my replies, pretty sure I will be the best most qualified person out of any LPer to give you advice here. I have both practical and theoretical experience, am part of "relationships anonymous" groups
and it's my 2nd main priority along with poker and health at this point in my life so if I were you I'd listen to what I have to say

The past 6 weeks have been the most unproductive weeks for me in years.
after a breakup you have a choice - use the emotional whirlwind to shut down. Or use it to take action. Seriously try to channel the desperation to something positive, like going to meet new people, make new friends, and when you're ready, date women

My first actual romantic relationship in a decade. Our summer and fall together was bliss.
Fucking A+ man, it's gonna change your life, I told you it wasn't supposed to last and it didn't. Focus on the positives which are massive, life changing for you getting such an experienced lover after 10years.
Just imagine how you will be now around inexperienced women, and what you can give them! Your value went up a bunch, just by you being able to pass along some of your newly gained experience

She had a vacation planned with her son. Before leaving I wanted to spend a night together, but she chose her girlfriends over me. Understandable. Because I had just spent an entire week at her place. We were eating dinner together and sleeping together each night. But for the past week I sensed she was distancing herself from me: less sex, less touch, less talk of the future. I let that resentment grow in me and fester. The night she went out with her friends we were supposed to meet afterwards, but she was too tired. I snapped and texted "So no then? Just wanted to see you before you leave on vacation. See you next week or whatever. Guess the feeling isn't mutual". Immature, I know. The next morning she vaguely broke up with me by text. I asked her why she was threatening a breakup, and she replied "your see you next week or whatever was the threat".

Haha it's a natural reaction from you, but one that will turn almost everyone off. I'd say close to 100% strong women you date will value freedom above all else.
When she pulls back, you pull back even further, give her the space to come back to you. You can fake it till you make it really, just message her "No worries, just let me know when you're free next"
Even though you're crying in the fucking bath that she rejected you. The aim in the long run is, and what traits you want to show, is to ACTUALLY not give a fuck, build a great life for yourself, on your own so when a woman flakes on you you have a bunch of stuff and people waiting in line for you to give them your prescious time. It will literally be HER loss and she'll be able to feel that and value your time more,
women have this radar built in them automatically really.

It literally took me just a couple months of hard work and going out there, but now I have more friends I can shake a stick at, women messaging me and social circles where I can meet more women any time I want. And this is what you really want - your life to be this ride you're satisfied with and for women to have the opportunity to share it with you, and you share their ride. And acting all needy and exactly opposite to that will turn the mentally stables ones away

She leaves on vacation for one week and ignores my few texts. The following weekend she explains to me that she thought we had broken up. I never took it seriously, because what kind of adult ends a relationship through text?? I texted her "10min" and got in my car and raced to her home. I nearly hit a guy on my way there. She let me in. I teared up. She explained to me that during her vacation she had time to think about us. She says the age difference is too big for this to last. She is 15 years older than me. I argued that we should focus on the present and that everything has been going great, so why ruin it? She stood her ground. We hugged, kissed, said good bye. She agreed to think about it and to see me again.

Same thing, you are acting in a controlling way that cuts her freedom. Stuff like age difference, your job etc. although are important tend to be just an excuse and women will change their religion for you, beliefs and defend you with their family when they are head over heels in love with you. The age difference was always there nothing changed, but you simply turned her off too much

The following weeks were hell for me. It's the first time I open my heart to someone in 10 years and get discarded once things become serious. Nevertheless, I decided that I'll try to get her back. A few weeks later and I asked her out several times. After the 3rd time asking she finally accepted. She was always friendly by text, but never initiated.

I find that women actually prefer to initiate with you, it's their idea. It was a big issue with a girl I dated, and a major red flag in retrospect actually when she holds back. Again it's the same mindset of you giving them the freedom to come to you, to let you know they are thinking about you with all the random ways women do "hi how are you" "look at this random thing I saw that reminded me of you" it's their way of putting in the effort, and it's just your job to take action and ask them out...Or not... And when she does not reach out you either need to keep giving her space as she's not ready for you yet...or she's a controlling structured woman that holds back on purpose or has communication issues, and that's gonna be a big burden down the road believe me

So last weekend we met at our favorite bar. Ate, drank, conversed for 2 hours. It was great. She was laughing and touching my shoulder, she was picking food off my plate, and sharing her food with me. It was just like old times. We said goodbye, kissed a few times and parted. She mentioned that she has to wake up early the next morning, so continuing the evening at her place was not going to happen. She said "Let's do this again sometime". We texted when she got home. She told me that she got a movie she thinks I'd enjoy. She asked me if I'm having trouble sleeping-- I told her yes, and she admitted the same. She told me about a story where she got drunk at a work conference after our breakup, which is completely out of character for her. The breakup must have affected her just as badly.

The following weekend I asked her out again. She decided on Sunday for dinner. Saturday night comes and I'm finishing a session of live poker. I decided to pass by her house while driving back home. Sort of creepy, I know. It was 1 AM and I saw a strange car in her driveway and all the lights were out. WTF. I understand that she's single now, but why continue to see me if she's sleeping with another guy? I must be Plan B?

Sunday comes and we have dinner just like old times. She dressed up for me, makeup, lipstick, hair curled. We talked, ate and drank for 1.5hrs. I asked her about her Saturday night and she avoided the topic. There's no doubt that she spent the night with a guy. Yet here she is with me.. I guess I'm 'Sunday Dinner Dude' and the other guy gets to shag her all Saturday night. I have the short end of the stick. Benefit of the doubt, must give her the benefit of the doubt!! I walk her to her car, we kiss a few times. I suggested coming over to her place for a nightcap, but again she made an excuse.

What benefit of the doubt, she boned a guy for sure! I find that close to 100% successful attractive single women have men in their lives. Whether it's people they are hooking up with, ex boyfriends they are emotionally attached to, or just random guy friends and people in their orbit that they interact with that are interested in them and often too weak to do anything about it. it's just something you have to accept really, state what you want, communicate and really don't even mention them unless you are in a mutually stated committed relationship really. And when she does mention them before you are "well they can keep you busy when you're not with me baby"

Feeling like shit. Don't know what my next move is. I love this woman and know that she feels strongly about me. And the reason for the breakup is BS. We had plans for Christmas and NYE together, so much plans. I don't know what to do from here. I want to keep trying, but I can only initiate so much without reciprocation. I'm not thinking straight. What does she want from me? Why string me along?
You can fake it and do the best thing you can to get her back
-don't contact her, do whatever you can not to message her, give her space and when she reaches out with whatever crap she will reach out with eventually
You just ask her out on a date, and have fun with her, The past doesn't matter, your former plan's don't matter, none of that shit matters you just have to focus on the present moment and have a great time.

Or you can actually "make it"
And do what I've done - put all your energy you'd put on moping and groping about the one that got away in actually building a great life for yourself, making friends, going to cool new interests and support groups, focusing on your career, all this for yourself and never look back. And if she reaches out one day she'll be just one out of many and you will naturally do what I just told you in the "fake it" approach.

Many of you guys said that breakups are a blessing for personal growth. Yeah I don't understand your logic. Maybe I haven't got to that point yet.
Every breakup = you refine what you are looking for.
I have a pretty detailed list of 10 things I'd want in an ideal partner. And 10 things I'd like to avoid and I think about them quite often. And every relationship helped me get there, helped me to know what I want
and what kind of person I need to work towards IN MYSELF to be ready when a person with a lot of high priority traits comes a long.

And I know guys in their 60s who focused on their careers who are still clueless and just want a girl "that's young and tall". It's your choice whether you learn from it or not

You also have experience, again this is fucking invaluable in what she gave you with all the fucking, wining dining, dating etc. you had no clue existed. Now stop being a selfish cunt, thank her internally or in person for those great times and passing the wisdom along, and go spread it (without any STDs I hope bro xD) to all the other women in the world that crave it.

93% Sure! Last edit: 13/12/2018 20:05

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 13 2018 22:14. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:26

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 13 2018 23:20. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:26

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Dec 13 2018 23:53. Posts 15016

lol it's your mistake to make xD

93% Sure!  

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 14 2018 00:00. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:27

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 14 2018 05:27. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:27

Loco   Canada. Dec 14 2018 06:11. Posts 20104

Nothing's changed. The relationship was on her terms from the very beginning. You accepted that, which meant that you showed her you were co-dependent, that you are not a self on your own. That neediness, that incompleteness, that desire to be saved by someone, she can smell it, and she can use it for her own benefit. But she is also needy and incomplete. Don't let her career fool you. That's why she plays those games. You both have nothing to offer to someone who is healthy and self-respecting. And putting two dysfunctional people together doesn't make for a good relationship, it just makes it even more dysfunctional.

Those who make a peaceful revolution impossible, will make a violent revolution inevitable.Last edit: 14/12/2018 06:13

Trav94   Canada. Dec 14 2018 06:13. Posts 1752

She saw your invitation text. She just didn't answer because you aren't a priority, and with how sensitive and feminine you are with her, you've turned her off. Sometime's you just have to know when to fold buddy.

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 14 2018 06:50. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:27

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 14 2018 07:07. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:27

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Dec 14 2018 09:11. Posts 15016

You mean it didn't work?
And even if it will
You'll just be friends with no sex?
I am shocked SHOCKED I tells you :D

93% Sure!  

Loco   Canada. Dec 14 2018 22:45. Posts 20104

It sounds like your coach is saying you'd be benefited by seeing someone new. You wouldn't be. Seeing someone new would be a distraction from your pain at best, and you'd miss the intensity of the previous relationship by contrast, and at worst, you'd be back into the same push-pull dynamic with someone else. There's a simple course of action here which involves processing your grief and seeing the mistakes you made, while growing a healthy self without a partner. Your center cannot be another person. It's not romantic, it's just tragic.

Also, ditch the old therapist. She is clearly incompetent. You've gone back to her because it's the path of least resistance. You want what is familiar. You should be going against the stream.

Some reading material for you from a licensed therapist who knows what she's talking about:

Good luck

Those who make a peaceful revolution impossible, will make a violent revolution inevitable.Last edit: 14/12/2018 22:53

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 15 2018 09:37. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:27

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 15 2018 10:13. Posts 3450

She always seemed fickle. That's the one thing that bothered me the most. I can't be sure if she ever cheated on me, but she flirted with men in front of me, tried to stir jealousy in me, has guys orbiting her and believes that ex boyfriends can be friends. All while idealizing her ex who ended it. Fickle. She once stated that her father used to tell her "Marry for money. Cheat for love". Lol. Her father would openly cheat around her and use her for cover when her mother would ask where her father was. She grew up in an environment where cheating was normal. Red flag, I know.

Then one day the subject of cheating comes up while watching a movie. She told me that she would rather her partner not tell her if he cheated, and that it would be selfish to confess. I in turn told her that I would like to be told and that I believe cheating is the worst form of betrayal in a relationship. The following week she broke it off. Guilt maybe? I don't know. My mind is poisoned with these anxious preoccupied thoughts, always trying to figured out the real reason it ended.

One day I told her that January is the most popular month for cheating. Her response: "Hmmm.. I'm trying to think if that's true". facepalm.gif

And she would always playfully claim that I was cheating! She would often say "Oh were you with your brunette again?", "Did you learn that from your brunette?". I played along until it became annoying and started to feel offended. Maybe she was projecting.

Sometimes I focus in on these moments as an attempt to push her off the pedestal.

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 15/12/2018 10:32

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Dec 16 2018 16:54. Posts 15016

lol what are you doing :D
Every time women do this you just go stoic and say
"yep, learned from her this when we got married last week, in fact we're expecting quintuplets and you will be the fairy godmother to them, are you excited?"

You basically
1) Remain playful - that's all she's doing afterall
2) Keep your calm and centre don't get all unglued by that stuff
3) Show how ridiculous she's being with even suggesting that

93% Sure! Last edit: 16/12/2018 16:59

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Dec 16 2018 22:37. Posts 8960

I mean I did tell you that your old therapist is incompetent 2 or 3 blogs ago... she s just saying stuff she read in her class book, ugh

she gave me the impression she knew less about you than me and I know you from internet forum posts... thats really sad (for her ... and well for you for investing money, time and hope into her) ditch her indeed

  Am I naive to think I can keep my emotions in check if we start having sex again?

You know why you wrote that question and you know what we would all answer...

Also what seems to be bothering you the most is the lack of closure on her part. We are programmed to understand everything logically thus everything not only has a beginning and an end but it also makes sense once we go back and look at it. Obviously curiosity is a driving froce for our progress as species, but quite damaging when it suffocates you. You're thinking too objectively clinging to certain actions or things that have been said.

You don't need that closure, it's only holding you back. Learn to let go, will help you a lot outside of the romantic life as well, it's also very liberating.

 Last edit: 16/12/2018 22:49

whammbot   Belarus. Dec 17 2018 00:03. Posts 397

Careful with older women. You do not want to relinquish control unless you enjoy being manipulated like that. Reading this post it looks like she's already got you hooked. Go look for some other cougar or chick, never think that you have a real relationship with a much older woman, it's just going to be impractical.

If your relationship feels like a game already, it probably is.

visit my personal entertainment blog https://foundaz.comLast edit: 17/12/2018 00:05

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 18 2018 03:17. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:27

hiems   United States. Dec 18 2018 05:11. Posts 1562

dude this is getting creepy.

is it her companionship or her lifestyle//security that you think you desire so much?

what happened to plans for transitioning out of poker?

again, this is getting fuckin creepy.

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 18 2018 06:45. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:28

Loco   Canada. Dec 18 2018 10:18. Posts 20104

What you're experiencing and have experienced has nothing to do with love. Not the kind of love that people in your age range can experience in a healthy manner. It's an immature love, based in infatuation and addiction. Mature love, the only love worth pursing, is the giving of what you have, combined with the self-respect to not settle for anything less than that giving being reciprocated. It is not indulging in pleasure or an escape from solitude. It is certainly not mature love that you express by buying unwanted gifts for someone hoping to win their heart again when it's clearly based on delusional thinking rooted in deprivation.

I think we can all feel for you. We've all been desperate and brokenhearted. But you're on a path of self-destruction here and nothing positive is going to come out of being transparent about it with us. It's only a strength to be vulnerable if it's combined with a desire to learn and change.

Those who make a peaceful revolution impossible, will make a violent revolution inevitable.Last edit: 18/12/2018 10:21

hiems   United States. Dec 18 2018 15:29. Posts 1562

lol im not sure why your getting so mad. you seem to keep defining success in life by some weird parameters, perhaps because besides this recent fling you had with this woman you need to work on your life. driving drunk and rolling by her house at night is stupid/creepy. road raging and almost falling into a ditch is just plain retarded. and this obsession over this woman all over the internet is bordering around creepy.

you seem to have some sort of smug satisfaction that you've been in this relationship while ive been blogging about my recent bouts of loneliness and depression. i dont think you understand that other people can have different life style choices than you. whether if i want to go off-grid and live in the middle of nowhere or whether i want to just do whatever with my life and bang a bunch of hookers do drugs and eat at nice restaurants that's completely up to me, its not your place to just decide that somehow the life of "you have to approach women that smile at you and put yourself out there" is the correct one. this is why i made fun of you before for sounding like a bad pua coach, because you sound exactly like a bad pua coach.

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 18 2018 18:01. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:28

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Dec 18 2018 23:55. Posts 15016

Lol thank you so much k4ir0s
had an amazing time in the pub with random expats talking about the topic of cougars :D

93% Sure!  

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Dec 19 2018 00:46. Posts 8960

Its one thing to put yourself out of your comfort zone, its quite another to take a self-destructing path willingly, knowing it is one.

Loco   Canada. Dec 19 2018 00:49. Posts 20104

You don't know that she bought you Christmas gifts. You only know that there were tags and receipts that fell out of a bag. That could have been for someone else. It could also have been for you at the time, but she broke up with you since then. She could have returned them, given them away, or is deciding to hold on to them. There was no reason for you to buy her gifts based on the information you had.

Those who make a peaceful revolution impossible, will make a violent revolution inevitable.Last edit: 19/12/2018 00:49

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 20 2018 00:39. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:28

Loco   Canada. Dec 20 2018 02:34. Posts 20104

The mistake began before those situations arose. You shouldn't be in a relationship with someone who doesn't feel as strongly about the relationship as you do in the first place. When it comes to monogamous relationships, both people have to think "fuck yes, I do" to the question of whether they want to be committed to this one person. It doesn't work if it's just one of them. Those situations are just symptoms of the fact that those feelings were never mutual, you said in the past that you kind of pressured her into it (I don't remember your words, but something about her hesitatingly saying yes to being official, probably because she didn't have other strong prospects at the time or she didn't want to hurt your feelings).

There is only one correct course of action when someone is clearly testing your limits, trying to make you jealous, etc. It's to use very clear language to establish a boundary, say that this behavior is not acceptable to you, and to hold the other person accountable for breaking it in the future and to follow up on your word. If it's not clear to you what they are trying to do, you should ask clarifying questions, see if they are incriminating themselves or maybe you'll find that they'll tell you exactly how you "should" be reacting, which is a red flag to get out as you are dealing with someone who's manipulative. If you don't communicate your issue with it or you allow them to keep doing it without (rational/measured) punishment, they will keep pushing and make your life a living hell as you give them more and more power and telegraph to them that you're a doormat and they can do better than you so why should they treat you with respect?

Those who make a peaceful revolution impossible, will make a violent revolution inevitable.Last edit: 20/12/2018 02:37

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Dec 20 2018 23:18. Posts 15016

  On December 19 2018 23:39 k4ir0s wrote:
Show nested quote +

Receipts/tags were 100% from clothes for me.I'm tall. My size isn't common. But maybe you're right. Maybe she won't give me the gifts now, but I want to be prepared. Worst case scenario I return the items I bought or use them. I kept the receipts. If she invites me over I'll just keep the gifts in the trunk of my car and take them out if she gives me gifts.

  On December 18 2018 23:46 Spitfiree wrote:
Its one thing to put yourself out of your comfort zone, its quite another to take a self-destructing path willingly, knowing it is one.

Agreed. I'm beginning to heal. If she doesn't invite me before Christmas then I know there's no hope.

  On December 18 2018 22:55 LemOn[5thF] wrote:
Lol thank you so much k4ir0s
had an amazing time in the pub with random expats talking about the topic of cougars :D

Older women are great. If anything, the next woman I date will likely be older. The good ones are independent, the conversations are better and you can learn so much from them. They have more confidence in and out of the bedroom, know what they want more and know how to get it. It's fun. But I sometimes think that I'm more inclined to date someone older because the chances of it working out long-term are less likely. Or maybe I have an unresolved oedipal complex

Question for you guys. How should you act when you're GF starts talking about other guys, mentioning that she was complimented or subtly implying that a guy is interested in her or hits on her regularly. I dealt with this issue throughout my relationship and never know how to optimally react. For the most part I ignored it. In hindsight I probably should have used humor. But sometimes it got to the point where I felt like 'WTF she's definitely trying to get a reaction out of me and it's borderline disrespectful" or as some people say: 'shit testing'. How do you handle that?

And how do you handle your GF subtly flirting with someone when you're with her? When she's acting a little too friendly.

It's a good sign generally when your GF tells you when guys hit on her, pursue her or do anything out of line etc. And even asks for advice.
Just shows that she can trust you really.

You should be grateful for that, stay calm, shouldn't be issue at all since actual cheaters will talk about " guyfriends" "people I talk to" or won't at all and then fuck you over behind your back. And if it is a test so what, same principle, give her the benefit of the doubt

It'd be different if she'd say she does the flirting and hits on guys of course

93% Sure! Last edit: 20/12/2018 23:19

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 21 2018 00:34. Posts 3450


I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 21/12/2018 01:23

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 22 2018 06:48. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:28

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Dec 22 2018 09:51. Posts 15016

You're seriously doing sole self destructive shit man
You keep pushing her away on purpose

93% Sure!  

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 22 2018 19:37. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:28

dnagardi   Hungary. Dec 22 2018 21:20. Posts 1660

show her this thread. end this misery

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Dec 23 2018 00:03. Posts 15016

  On December 22 2018 18:37 k4ir0s wrote:
Show nested quote +

Explain? My intention isn't to push her away. Was my last text that bad?

You guys were right from the start about no-contact. i'm hoping I didn't ruin my chances. She apologizes, so clearly she still has respect for me. that's good.

You're being really selfish and needy here by constantly contacting her, pushing her, buying her presents, spilling your heart, trying to push yourself into your life....

She's asking you for space, tells you she isn't available, she all but told directly you she wants space to wonder about you and have the freedom to pick you herself, and instead you're just doing what you want - the need for certainty or closure and ignore her

93% Sure!  

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Dec 23 2018 00:06. Posts 15016

  On December 22 2018 20:20 dnagardi wrote:
show her this thread. end this misery

haha yeah
don't be dumb
there was never future there
make sure you learn your lessons from this instead,

93% Sure!  

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 23 2018 00:36. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:29

Loco   Canada. Dec 23 2018 00:37. Posts 20104

  On December 22 2018 18:37 k4ir0s wrote:
Show nested quote +

Explain? My intention isn't to push her away. Was my last text that bad?

You guys were right from the start about no-contact. i'm hoping I didn't ruin my chances. She apologizes, so clearly she still has respect for me. that's good.

No contact is about personal empowerment and healing. It's not about winning back someone who saw no future with you. It just so happens that it's also the best way to illicit doubt and regret in the other person for dumping you, especially when it comes to them seeing that you are living a full life without them down the road. If it comforts you to think about the possibility of winning her back because you are still in the denial stage, then that's fine, because the priority is to do whatever helps you maintain no contact, but you should know that on its own its going to be insufficient, you'll have to do some significant core changes in order to become attractive to the people you find attractive.

You're still making massive leaps in logic. The simplest explanation as to why she is apologizing is because that's just what people do in those situations. You can apologize to someone you dislike for causing them pain, or apologize to someone you pity because it makes you feel good about yourself to know someone is in a worse place than you. She still benefits from you boosting her ego, that's why she's staying in contact with you and keeping up the apparently normal talk. It's not out of respect. For someone to respect you, they have to first know that you respect yourself, and you clearly don't, and she's clearly aware of that by now.

Those who make a peaceful revolution impossible, will make a violent revolution inevitable.Last edit: 23/12/2018 00:40

hiems   United States. Dec 24 2018 21:43. Posts 1562

Trav94   Canada. Dec 25 2018 21:00. Posts 1752

Well did she end up giving you presents? Or was a ton of money wasted on her for no reason.

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 26 2018 05:37. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:29

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 26 2018 05:53. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:29

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Dec 26 2018 20:42. Posts 15016

You're being really weak
And need to learn to be yourself
If you date someone young that lives in your building
And you date her and when it seems like it's starting you to get serious you just decide not to, you state intent and it won't get serious. You can even tell women that upfront
But you definitely don't have to hide behind older women that live far away just because you are too weak to act in your values and wants

93% Sure!  

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 27 2018 07:31. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 02/01/2019 05:26

RiKD    United States. Dec 27 2018 19:01. Posts 5908

Why would you feel uneasy about seeing more than one person at once?

Especially in the early dating stage it keeps things more fun and you don't find yourself getting overly invested in one woman. It breeds an overall attitude that is attractive to women rather than the opposite.

k4ir0s   Canada. Dec 29 2018 08:14. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:29

k4ir0s   Canada. Jan 03 2019 02:31. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:29

drone666   Brasil. Jan 03 2019 03:59. Posts 1731

dont expect to find anything other than sluts on online dating, its kinda dry everywhere, unless you are the top 1% men, you will have a lot more quality and abundance if you start going out, even me, Im in the top 1% prob and live in one of the better cities for online dating, sometimes even ugly fat girls are so spoiled and reject me when im trolling

Im a veteran master in this game and know all the tricks, so let me know if you want to know something specific

Dont listen to anything I say 

drone666   Brasil. Jan 03 2019 03:59. Posts 1731

and you sound liek a pussy tbh, so I dont expect much success lol

Dont listen to anything I say 

k4ir0s   Canada. Jan 03 2019 04:44. Posts 3450

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -OlyLast edit: 14/01/2019 05:29

drone666   Brasil. Jan 03 2019 04:55. Posts 1731

agreeing to meet means nothing, most girls stack a lot of dates and then at the day they decide the best one and give some random excuse to the rest ( esp if they agreed to meet with little investment from your part ) so be aware when their dog gets sick

well, gl

Dont listen to anything I sayLast edit: 03/01/2019 04:55


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