Starcraft thread - Page 7

On October 28 2018 21:03 bigredhoss wrote: Show nested quote + On October 28 2018 15:19 VanDerMeyde wrote: I had to mute that commentator. seriously why do they go away from tastetosis for the biggest series of the tournament?

Blizzcon > ASL - they are commenting SC2 games and there is an incoming Rain vs Last BW show match as well


@blackjacki saying that the 2 best players are in the finals means that the 2 players which won their games are in the final, its the literal equivalent, if you understand the statement in any other way then you're auto assuming things, which is your own problem


Those commentators were utter shit + Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

Maybe it's just because I've been watching all the big tournaments lately, but these commentators are much better than they used to be -- they were completely horrible a few months ago, now they're passable in a vacuum, but still terrible compared to Tastosis.

Excellent finals, really enjoyed those games.

On October 28 2018 22:15 Spitfiree wrote: @blackjacki saying that the 2 best players are in the finals means that the 2 players which won their games are in the final, its the literal equivalent, if you understand the statement in any other way then you're auto assuming things, which is your own problem

The players that win their games are always in the finals.... so why would he even post that if that was the intention of the statement? You think he has nothing better to do than make meaningless posts?

On October 28 2018 23:00 Daut wrote: Maybe it's just because I've been watching all the big tournaments lately, but these commentators are much better than they used to be -- they were completely horrible a few months ago, now they're passable in a vacuum, but still terrible compared to Tastosis. Excellent finals, really enjoyed those games.

I feel exactly the same way. NoregreT has gotten a ton better now that he actually knows the game and isn't just "a sc2 guy casting Brood War." It's kind of sad that he's more insightful than Rapid though considering Rapid has had years of a head start on BW knowledge lol

Haven't checked starcraft vids for a number of months, excited to see a lot of uploads on afreeca. Watching the flash/effort finals atm, surely gg's
Thx 4 the thread bros

why dont u guys just watch the korean stream instead of rapid/no regret?

they've casted a handful of times now. do we not learn from our mistakes? they are not the only viewing option.

i hate people who spoil with a fucking passion, but nothing tilted me more than reading the discussion afterwards as to whether it was spoiling or not. holy fucking shit punch yourselves in the face

oh yea the finals were cool too

Learn Russian plebs, they have the best casters.

On October 29 2018 00:04 FrinkX wrote: why dont u guys just watch the korean stream instead of rapid/no regret?

I mean, cause i dont speak korean ? :D

Assortment of thoughts:
1. Flash is obviously the best player in the world -- he has the highest ELO, the most accomplishments in the past, a winning record vs every other player, and has finished 11155 in the previous 5 ASLs while nobody else even made the finals twice. Saying "the two best players made the finals" spoils Flash vs Shuttle, but does it really matter? Shuttle was probably <3% in the series anyway. Last however, was probably considered the better player in his series with Effort, so this match was not spoiled. Think the comment was a relatively light spoiler overall, and probably not deserving of a warning. The argument afterwards gave me AIDS though.

2. My general view on spoilers in this thread is, don't post info that would spoil a match without spoiler tags in the thread before a link/video to the match is posted (so that someone trying to avoid spoilers can begin reading on an earlier page and see a link before reading a comment), and try to wait 24 hours before posting without tags. Since the match is now over 24 hours old and the youtube was posted above this comment, I will not be using spoiler tags in this comment.

3. I cannot believe Flash lost to lings in game 1, held off the burrowed strategy game 2 after having a couple vultures surrounded, or that Effort won game 5 after Flash completely crushed the muta attack and sniped a lot of overlords with wraiths.

4. This is probably not true with respect to individual matchup ELO or his historical winrates, but I think TvZ is Flash's most vulnerable matchup. On neutral maps he completely smothers Protoss players, and other than the 0-3 vs Last in season 1 of ASL, Terrans seem to have no chance vs him. He really crushes zergs in the 8-15 minute window, but is susceptible to ling timings early (vs both Effort and Action), and elite dark swarm users that grab 4 gas can beat any Terran. I don't want to call it an imbalance, especially when the rest of the matchup looks so difficult for Zerg, but as a Protoss player it sometimes looks impossible for a Terran to beat an elite 5 gas Zerg with no melee units that fire under dark swarm (firebats just do splash and can't be the backbone of an army like zealots/archons). When Terrans do win, it's cause they simultaneously outlast the Zerg and perform a couple base killing drops that reduce the Zerg's gas count. I think Zergs are starting to figure out that the time to kill Flash is either very early with lings (or do enough damage with the lings that the mutas have an easy cleanup) or with dark swarm late and they cannot win in the mid game.

5. Effort's 2 base swarm build was incredible. Soulkey likes to 2 base into guardians, but this seems way better vs 1/1/1 when Terran have more wraiths/vessels by the time guardians hit.

6. Effort's mole build is also incredible. It's such a small investment and can win or save a game if vultures sneak into a mineral line.

7. It's seemed over the past 6 months that Effort had an edge in ZvZ vs larva/soulkey, but now it also seems that he has made a huge leap in his ZvT compared to them too. And his ZvP looks great, completely steamrolled Rain in ro8.

8. My current top player rankings are 1. Flash, 2. Last, 3. Effort, 4. Rain, and a huge dropoff to whoever is #5. Effort vs Rain is close, and I'd normally be inclined to put Rain ahead due to more consistent results lately, but Effort beating Rain/Last/Flash b2b2b in this starleague is something I just can't picture Rain doing. I've been a soulkey truther for a long time in the sense that I thought he was better than his results and capable of beating anyone in this first tier if he prepared and that he was just unlucky to not win something big because ZvZ is such a flip. But when you go long enough without winning, and don't even consistently top 8 things it's a sign you aren't at the highest level. It seems like nobody is close to these 4 players right now (with hero and bisu in military service, both would be in the 3-6 range alongside Rain/Effort right now)

On October 29 2018 10:30 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On October 29 2018 00:04 FrinkX wrote: why dont u guys just watch the korean stream instead of rapid/no regret? I mean, cause i dont speak korean ? :D

the point is any other language > what those 2 casters are saying

i thought it was a fair assumption that every single person watching pro bw would be completely used to korean casting. still do.

it kinda sux that Flash isnt playing in the KSL... at least Larva is

The way I see it, Effort did three things correctly/differently which is something Flash is not familiar in dealing with:

*Early game semi all-in builds
*Use of Hydras early to mid game
*Burrow (have been wondering why this is so underutilized all these years)

short and sweet and very creative games, beautiful finals.

Flash was quite sloppy defending the 1-1-1 opening, Effort just like Soulkey gave him a lot ot grief early on, his vultures were getting trapped easily and his famous SCV control wasn't there

Very good finals, the "early" swarm was awesome and also last game. I am a flash fan but I am happy effort won this.

this was just posted on the casual game of the week thread on TL, Flash POV vs Mini

unbelievable game. this man isnt human. must watch

On October 29 2018 14:18 Daut wrote: Assortment of thoughts: 1. Flash is obviously the best player in the world -- he has the highest ELO, the most accomplishments in the past, a winning record vs every other player, and has finished 11155 in the previous 5 ASLs while nobody else even made the finals twice. Saying "the two best players made the finals" spoils Flash vs Shuttle, but does it really matter? Shuttle was probably <3% in the series anyway. Last however, was probably considered the better player in his series with Effort, so this match was not spoiled. Think the comment was a relatively light spoiler overall, and probably not deserving of a warning. The argument afterwards gave me AIDS though. 2. My general view on spoilers in this thread is, don't post info that would spoil a match without spoiler tags in the thread before a link/video to the match is posted (so that someone trying to avoid spoilers can begin reading on an earlier page and see a link before reading a comment), and try to wait 24 hours before posting without tags. Since the match is now over 24 hours old and the youtube was posted above this comment, I will not be using spoiler tags in this comment. 3. I cannot believe Flash lost to lings in game 1, held off the burrowed strategy game 2 after having a couple vultures surrounded, or that Effort won game 5 after Flash completely crushed the muta attack and sniped a lot of overlords with wraiths. 4. This is probably not true with respect to individual matchup ELO or his historical winrates, but I think TvZ is Flash's most vulnerable matchup. On neutral maps he completely smothers Protoss players, and other than the 0-3 vs Last in season 1 of ASL, Terrans seem to have no chance vs him. He really crushes zergs in the 8-15 minute window, but is susceptible to ling timings early (vs both Effort and Action), and elite dark swarm users that grab 4 gas can beat any Terran. I don't want to call it an imbalance, especially when the rest of the matchup looks so difficult for Zerg, but as a Protoss player it sometimes looks impossible for a Terran to beat an elite 5 gas Zerg with no melee units that fire under dark swarm (firebats just do splash and can't be the backbone of an army like zealots/archons). When Terrans do win, it's cause they simultaneously outlast the Zerg and perform a couple base killing drops that reduce the Zerg's gas count. I think Zergs are starting to figure out that the time to kill Flash is either very early with lings (or do enough damage with the lings that the mutas have an easy cleanup) or with dark swarm late and they cannot win in the mid game. 5. Effort's 2 base swarm build was incredible. Soulkey likes to 2 base into guardians, but this seems way better vs 1/1/1 when Terran have more wraiths/vessels by the time guardians hit. 6. Effort's mole build is also incredible. It's such a small investment and can win or save a game if vultures sneak into a mineral line. 7. It's seemed over the past 6 months that Effort had an edge in ZvZ vs larva/soulkey, but now it also seems that he has made a huge leap in his ZvT compared to them too. And his ZvP looks great, completely steamrolled Rain in ro8. 8. My current top player rankings are 1. Flash, 2. Last, 3. Effort, 4. Rain, and a huge dropoff to whoever is #5. Effort vs Rain is close, and I'd normally be inclined to put Rain ahead due to more consistent results lately, but Effort beating Rain/Last/Flash b2b2b in this starleague is something I just can't picture Rain doing. I've been a soulkey truther for a long time in the sense that I thought he was better than his results and capable of beating anyone in this first tier if he prepared and that he was just unlucky to not win something big because ZvZ is such a flip. But when you go long enough without winning, and don't even consistently top 8 things it's a sign you aren't at the highest level. It seems like nobody is close to these 4 players right now (with hero and bisu in military service, both would be in the 3-6 range alongside Rain/Effort right now)

On point 8 - How you feel about soulkey is how many people felt about effort for a long time though. I'm so happy he won because he has consistently under performed relative to his ability for a long time.

Regarding commentators I think rapid and noregret are beyond awful. It's actually a close call between listening to music in the background or them.

If you read comments during live streams a large proportion of them are about how bad the commentators are instead of the game itself. It's a real shame that other than Artosis and Tasteless there's no-one (at least in terms of availability) who are good to listen to and know what they're talking about.

tastosis also brings that nostalgia that brood war is legendary for so yeah

On October 30 2018 01:22 whammbot wrote: The way I see it, Effort did three things correctly/differently which is something Flash is not familiar in dealing with: *Early game semi all-in builds *Use of Hydras early to mid game *Burrow (have been wondering why this is so underutilized all these years)

i haven't watched flash stream in a couple months but when I did he was familiar with just about everything and even things that caught him by surprise he always seemed to have perfect reactions too. That being said effort used to beat him a pretty decent % of the time on stream back then so i wasn't really surprised seeing him do it in tourney too.