It's logically consistent for someone who thinks being trans is a mental illness / leftist "fad" that a health professional who has taken the Hippocratic oath to do no harm would "do harm" by enabling them. But yes, does not really make sense to call it "criminal". But making sense is not what drives views. If he had ever committed to making sense instead of dealing in distortions and exaggerations he would not have made a fortune off of misleading young men into embracing his flavor of conservatism.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On July 04 2022 23:24 Loco wrote:
It's logically consistent for someone who thinks being trans is a mental illness / leftist "fad" that a health professional who has taken the Hippocratic oath to do no harm would "do harm" by enabling them. But yes, does not really make sense to call it "criminal". But making sense is not what drives views. If he had ever committed to making sense instead of dealing in distortions and exaggerations he would not have made a fortune off of misleading young men into embracing his flavor of conservatism.
Hipocratic oath is regarding ethics not criminality and even to prove somebody is breaking the hippocratic oath that doctors would have to knowingly do harm and obv doctors who do procedures on trans ppl think they are helping them.
Just a couple of years ago I would have described JBPs political alignment as center probably taking economics into account even center-left but he has always being obsessive with language so the pronoun compelled speech thing made him draw a line, over the years his following obviously leaned more right than him and have strongly influenced him and now he has become full conservative.
I don't think its a grift, most pop-political figures tend to walk this path left or right and I think self deception and the pursuit of being loved is far easier to us humans in general than cynicism, that requires an almost psycopathic acceptance of being a bad man.
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Last edit: 05/07/2022 01:42
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Stroggoz New Zealand. Jul 05 2022 02:43. Posts 5297
I think it's both a gift and there's self-deception. There's self-deception involved because that's just an axiom of human nature, basically. It's a grift because he clearly is just saying the standard lies that make him popular. People in JP's position have access to all the resources in the world to do careful research and listen to critique. Clearly he isn't interested in that. Assuming he isn't braindead, he knows he's just making up a lot of the things he says.
Calling yourself an evil person just means you are one layer down on the self-deception hierarchy. You're still deceiving yourself in that at some level you're telling yourself that it's ok to be evil. To be an honest person require's much more than just calling yourself a mass murderer or whatever. I mean that's really simple shit. Doesn't take any effort at all to say poker is exploitative and predatory. A five year old can do that. You all should look up the guy who runs the heart attack grill. Many people seem to think he's honest, but he isn't. He says in an interview at one point that "other restaurants essentially kill their customers with fast food, i'm just honest about it". That actually is an obvious rationalization, because he could just choose to run a restaurant that doesn't kill people instead of deluding himself into an obviously false dichotomy.
Typically when people are honest to themselves about being evil, their self deception spills over into other areas. Human beings have this kind of counter in the brain where they justify their actions as being right if they did some other thing that was good.
One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings
On July 05 2022 01:43 Stroggoz wrote:
I think it's both a gift and there's self-deception. There's self-deception involved because that's just an axiom of human nature, basically. It's a grift because he clearly is just saying the standard lies that make him popular. People in JP's position have access to all the resources in the world to do careful research and listen to critique. Clearly he isn't interested in that. Assuming he isn't braindead, he knows he's just making up a lot of the things he says.
Calling yourself an evil person just means you are one layer down on the self-deception hierarchy. You're still deceiving yourself in that at some level you're telling yourself that it's ok to be evil. To be an honest person require's much more than just calling yourself a mass murderer or whatever. I mean that's really simple shit. Doesn't take any effort at all to say poker is exploitative and predatory. A five year old can do that. You all should look up the guy who runs the heart attack grill. Many people seem to think he's honest, but he isn't. He says in an interview at one point that "other restaurants essentially kill their customers with fast food, i'm just honest about it". That actually is an obvious rationalization, because he could just choose to run a restaurant that doesn't kill people instead of deluding himself into an obviously false dichotomy.
Typically when people are honest to themselves about being evil, their self deception spills over into other areas. Human beings have this kind of counter in the brain where they justify their actions as being right if they did some other thing that was good.
Well I suppose most grifters are delusional like TV evangelists, the point was that it feels to me that you both paint him as somebody who is deliberately fooling ppl for a buck which I dont think the case, he isn't selling miracle water these are complex topics and if you read about health issues about de-transitioning ppl its not difficult to think that these surgeries can be monstrous and you can also be ungenerous in your asumptions like you two are being, and assume its a grift and not an attempt to help from these doctors.
I didn't say cynics were honest, I meant that for the vast majority of people its very difficult to percieve oneself as overall evil so they delude themselves, justify or compartmentalize to ridiculous extents.
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1
Stroggoz New Zealand. Jul 05 2022 11:19. Posts 5297
There is a lot of grifting in academia, even in the hard sciences, (except for math). It becomes more obvious that JP is a grifter when you've observed a long history of it. If you look at people like Christopher Hitchens or Dershowitz, or even Zizek, those people just straight up blatantly lied and probably got some enjoyment out of both doing it and knowing they can get away with it. The rewards for this kind of conservative populism can be pretty big. Rush Limbaugh made something around half a billion from it.
One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings
On July 05 2022 01:43 Stroggoz wrote:
I think it's both a gift and there's self-deception. There's self-deception involved because that's just an axiom of human nature, basically. It's a grift because he clearly is just saying the standard lies that make him popular. People in JP's position have access to all the resources in the world to do careful research and listen to critique. Clearly he isn't interested in that. Assuming he isn't braindead, he knows he's just making up a lot of the things he says.
Calling yourself an evil person just means you are one layer down on the self-deception hierarchy. You're still deceiving yourself in that at some level you're telling yourself that it's ok to be evil. To be an honest person require's much more than just calling yourself a mass murderer or whatever. I mean that's really simple shit. Doesn't take any effort at all to say poker is exploitative and predatory. A five year old can do that. You all should look up the guy who runs the heart attack grill. Many people seem to think he's honest, but he isn't. He says in an interview at one point that "other restaurants essentially kill their customers with fast food, i'm just honest about it". That actually is an obvious rationalization, because he could just choose to run a restaurant that doesn't kill people instead of deluding himself into an obviously false dichotomy.
Typically when people are honest to themselves about being evil, their self deception spills over into other areas. Human beings have this kind of counter in the brain where they justify their actions as being right if they did some other thing that was good.
Well I suppose most grifters are delusional like TV evangelists, the point was that it feels to me that you both paint him as somebody who is deliberately fooling ppl for a buck which I dont think the case, he isn't selling miracle water these are complex topics and if you read about health issues about de-transitioning ppl its not difficult to think that these surgeries can be monstrous and you can also be ungenerous in your asumptions like you two are being, and assume its a grift and not an attempt to help from these doctors.
I didn't say cynics were honest, I meant that for the vast majority of people its very difficult to percieve oneself as overall evil so they delude themselves, justify or compartmentalize to ridiculous extents.
If you're going to make a big deal out of detransition issues you have to bite the bullet and admit that freedom to act isn't everything in the world, which goes against your libertarian ideals. The idea of preventing trans people from doing surgeries for their own welfare (clearly Jordan supports this) is as anti-freedom as it gets, especially when it's rich people like Elliott Page who will have no issue affording any kind of plastic surgery for the rest of their lives. He just chooses the dumbest hills to die on and pretends to do it out of care for people.
I don't believe grifters are always conscious of what they are doing. In today's age, very few are, but it's still a confidence trick/grift - a charismatic person who takes from others by giving them nothing of real value.
JBP is very very close to the TV evangelist. He speaks like one, cries like one, draws crowds like one. He even has the same religion, he just paints it as being more nuanced than theirs.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On July 07 2022 02:31 Loco wrote:
If you're going to make a big deal out of detransition issues you have to bite the bullet and admit that freedom to act isn't everything in the world, which goes against your libertarian ideals. The idea of preventing trans people from doing surgeries for their own welfare (clearly Jordan supports this) is as anti-freedom as it gets, especially when it's rich people like Elliott Page who will have no issue affording any kind of plastic surgery for the rest of their lives. He just chooses the dumbest hills to die on and pretends to do it out of care for people.
I don't believe grifters are always conscious of what they are doing. In today's age, very few are, but it's still a confidence trick/grift - a charismatic person who takes from others by giving them nothing of real value.
JBP is very very close to the TV evangelist. He speaks like one, cries like one, draws crowds like one. He even has the same religion, he just paints it as being more nuanced than theirs.
Freedom doesnt always lead to the best results in every instance, controlled speech is far worse than if a some are seduced by genocidal ideologies, prohibition is worse than if many fall into addiction, and prohibiting gender affirming surgeries is worse than the few who will experience health issues due to their wrong choices.
Aren't you suppousedly a left wing libertarian? we are supposed to agree on the freedom side lol just not in the economical organization of society or perhaps you are a bit more tankish than you'd like to admit lol.
yeah I totally backpedal my statement about conscious deceit, pretty much all grifters are self deluded but I don't consider JBP a grifter, neither Hitchens or Zizek like Stroggoz thinks or Natalie (Contrapoints), I consider these people force of good even if I disagree with them in many things.
As I said I don't like what JBP has turned into, seduced by his own crowd, but comparing it to a televangelist is retarded but we will never agree on this, he is too big and too antagonistic to what you consider good for you to be objective.
On July 05 2022 01:43 Stroggoz wrote:
I think it's both a gift and there's self-deception. There's self-deception involved because that's just an axiom of human nature, basically. It's a grift because he clearly is just saying the standard lies that make him popular. People in JP's position have access to all the resources in the world to do careful research and listen to critique. Clearly he isn't interested in that. Assuming he isn't braindead, he knows he's just making up a lot of the things he says.
Calling yourself an evil person just means you are one layer down on the self-deception hierarchy. You're still deceiving yourself in that at some level you're telling yourself that it's ok to be evil. To be an honest person require's much more than just calling yourself a mass murderer or whatever. I mean that's really simple shit. Doesn't take any effort at all to say poker is exploitative and predatory. A five year old can do that. You all should look up the guy who runs the heart attack grill. Many people seem to think he's honest, but he isn't. He says in an interview at one point that "other restaurants essentially kill their customers with fast food, i'm just honest about it". That actually is an obvious rationalization, because he could just choose to run a restaurant that doesn't kill people instead of deluding himself into an obviously false dichotomy.
Typically when people are honest to themselves about being evil, their self deception spills over into other areas. Human beings have this kind of counter in the brain where they justify their actions as being right if they did some other thing that was good.
Well I suppose most grifters are delusional like TV evangelists, the point was that it feels to me that you both paint him as somebody who is deliberately fooling ppl for a buck which I dont think the case, he isn't selling miracle water these are complex topics and if you read about health issues about de-transitioning ppl its not difficult to think that these surgeries can be monstrous and you can also be ungenerous in your asumptions like you two are being, and assume its a grift and not an attempt to help from these doctors.
I didn't say cynics were honest, I meant that for the vast majority of people its very difficult to percieve oneself as overall evil so they delude themselves, justify or compartmentalize to ridiculous extents.
Look at someone like Joe Rogan who used to be a left wing Bernie supporter, but now constantly hosts right wing grift on his show. He's just a useful idiot that got taken advantage of. There is certainly an element of grift where he profits from his popularity and platform, but is there self awareness that he has changed or being taken advantage of? I don't think so.
Last edit: 08/07/2022 17:53
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Stroggoz New Zealand. Jul 08 2022 21:03. Posts 5297
Joe Rogan is kind've a vegetable in that regard. He is just on passive reception all the time. I can see why he is popular though. The standards of journalism are so low-they interrupt people every two seconds, that someone who listens and talks like a normal human being would make for a good alternative. I don't think Rogan is that high on the grifting spectrum, even though he is rich from it.
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Hitchens used to literally ask for money at his talks back when he was a commie. What part of him was a force for good? I guess his critique of religion is valid, but he could do it without becoming a neocon and advocating torture. I had a lot more respect for Dawkins and Dennet because they critiqued religion and seemed to actually care about truth to me, even if they had other flaws. Hitchens was always a self-conscious grifter. Religion is a force for evil in many ways, and I'd be ok with saying Dawkins and Dennit were forces for good overall, but not Harris or Hitchens who supported state violence.
Zizek seems like an actor. He has probably purposefully exaggerated all of these tics and mannerisms he has, like tugging on his shirt and rubbing his nose. I think he has basically made himself into the "eccentric genius" persona. Also he is a massive edgelord, (has Stalin posters on his door or something). Even a rambling postmodernist is right twice a day.
I wouldn't be surprised if Peterson watched televangelists on TV to get tips from them and mimic their behavior. Peterson actually has inspired a lot of young people out of depression, but so do witchdoctors. Doesn't Peterson grift a lot from patreon? The issue with Peterson is that he talks about every subject when asked about it, and seems to basically just give the populist response. When asked about higher education, "send them to trade school". Basically that's what populists say (like the Governor of Florida, who has banned many math textbooks and requires faculty to say what their political views are, by law).
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It's so incredibly easy to be a force for good these days but the above people just fail at it. There are loads of people who are forces for good but they are buried under 10 feet of algorithms.
One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings
On July 08 2022 20:03 Stroggoz wrote:
Joe Rogan is kind've a vegetable in that regard. He is just on passive reception all the time. I can see why he is popular though. The standards of journalism are so low-they interrupt people every two seconds, that someone who listens and talks like a normal human being would make for a good alternative. I don't think Rogan is that high on the grifting spectrum, even though he is rich from it.
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Hitchens used to literally ask for money at his talks back when he was a commie. What part of him was a force for good? I guess his critique of religion is valid, but he could do it without becoming a neocon and advocating torture. I had a lot more respect for Dawkins and Dennet because they critiqued religion and seemed to actually care about truth to me, even if they had other flaws. Hitchens was always a self-conscious grifter. Religion is a force for evil in many ways, and I'd be ok with saying Dawkins and Dennit were forces for good overall, but not Harris or Hitchens who supported state violence.
Zizek seems like an actor. He has probably purposefully exaggerated all of these tics and mannerisms he has, like tugging on his shirt and rubbing his nose. I think he has basically made himself into the "eccentric genius" persona. Also he is a massive edgelord, (has Stalin posters on his door or something). Even a rambling postmodernist is right twice a day.
I wouldn't be surprised if Peterson watched televangelists on TV to get tips from them and mimic their behavior. Peterson actually has inspired a lot of young people out of depression, but so do witchdoctors. Doesn't Peterson grift a lot from patreon? The issue with Peterson is that he talks about every subject when asked about it, and seems to basically just give the populist response. When asked about higher education, "send them to trade school". Basically that's what populists say (like the Governor of Florida, who has banned many math textbooks and requires faculty to say what their political views are, by law).
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It's so incredibly easy to be a force for good these days but the above people just fail at it. There are loads of people who are forces for good but they are buried under 10 feet of algorithms.
I didn't even know hitchens was a commie at a time lol wtf, yes I'm talking mainly on his work against religion, great speaker, when he supported "enhanced interrogation techniques" he actually went to get waterboarded and when he didnt last over a couple of seconds he instantly changed his views and said it was straight torture, that he had nightmare for many days after and said that ppl would say anything to stop it so it isn't even useful.
I find the idea of JBP watching TV evangelists to mimic them ridiculous, he has always said that the humanities in their current form are trash and political indoctrinator factories and I agree, most of the humanities are useless and its only purpose is fill the pockets of higher ed institutions and predatory lending banks.
Yes, the slightly autistic physics/poker geek girl with an addiction to twitter and an overinflated sense of her intelligence does remind me of someone
I also thought she looked like shit IRL honestly
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
Last edit: 11/07/2022 23:49
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Santafairy Korea (South). Jul 12 2022 04:20. Posts 2226
On July 11 2022 22:43 Loco wrote:
Yes, the slightly autistic physics/poker geek girl with an addiction to twitter and an overinflated sense of her intelligence does remind me of someone
I also thought she looked like shit IRL honestly
The ableism and sexism inherent to based Loco rears its tolerant head
With not just a hint of jealousy
It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen
