Marshall28 controversy on 2p2

Meh title but whatever.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/...ctor-lied-about-his-winnings-1404759/

I know LP love drama about Marshall so enjoy !!!

damn, i was paying $100 just to see those marshall vids, better unsubscribe from RIO now that he might not be one of the top NL players across multiple sites!

I love RIO but that's somewhat funny.

weird shit, joeingram posted here that he really enjoyed Marshall videos, then he posts on 2+2:

OMG A NL COACH LYING ABOUT RESULTS!!!!! SHOCKING i would be more surprised if someone who coaches NL was not lying about their results

lol

hopefully this will end in huge HU battles

i lie about my winnings too. mostly, it's about not mentioning your losses

On January 07 2014 08:51 drone666 wrote: weird shit, joeingram posted here that he really enjoyed Marshall videos, then he posts on 2+2: Show nested quote + OMG A NL COACH LYING ABOUT RESULTS!!!!! SHOCKING i would be more surprised if someone who coaches NL was not lying about their results lol

Sad part, Joey is 100% right here.

Meh from reading that thread (and the RIO thread) it seems like this guy is on a bit of a witch hunt vs Marshall and probably has something against him from the past or whatever

I think this is way blown out of proportion tbh

not sure why all coaches last year's winnings/graphs aren't available on Run It Once site as a standard

On January 07 2014 14:08 MadeInPolanD wrote: not sure why all coaches last year's winnings/graphs aren't available on Run It Once site as a standard

Because coaching business is shady as fuck, and only way of making money for some of those coaches from poker is by coaching (duh...) and charging completely insane amounts of money. Not saying it's everyone, but it's pretty common, especially now after PTR is no longer available.

Remember the guy praised as a math god on Polish Pokerstrategy (I think it was earlier this year)? He was charging $2,000 and hour, then it turns out his graphs were all fake and he couldn't beat NL25 himself. I could name just a handful of other Polish coaches in the exact same situation right here and right now (though charging less ridiculous amounts of money).

seriously doubt marshall is lying about his winnings. doesnt have the feel of a liar and hes clearly a stronger NL player than the other video makers ive watched recently.

if i had to guess id say he doesnt want to show results because he probably doesnt want people to start playing on the softer sites hes on. dont blame him.

lol no nicknames/site names are requiered to post a screenshot of winnings/graph

interesting to read the 2+2 thread and also the thread on yourdoom.

Perfectly reasonable that Marshal is math challenged, but still understands winnings ranges. I know he has done a lot of database analysis which he could literally have just memorized ranges. Understands enough of how manipulate ranges based on villians aggression and wins because of all that.

As for how RIO runs their business, I believe anything is possible, especially with the cluster fuck that Bluefire turned out to be. I expect nothing less from poker communities as a whole, especially when they are 'for profit' like RIO, bluefire, cardrunners. It is entirely possible there are vendettas, he said she said, tbh giving anyone the benefit of the doubt is unfair to both sides.

-----
Also, as for posting results, they aren't always the best representation of actual skill. There are lots of bumhunters with deceptive winrates
lots of winrates that are skewed from variance
lots of winrates that skewed from very tough fields
skewed results due to multitabling

Learning how to learn is the hardest part. If anyone/coach/person cannot tell you how they got to their decision point, why they think that decision is good, how it interacts with other possible decision points then that knowledge is worth very little in the long run and should cost little $. You should be very skeptical of the data point, realize that data point has very little reasoning and the odds of you getting better because of that data point is equalized between worse = same = marginally better

There are a lot of parameters that need to be considered before a correct reason can be inferred. Most poker teaching is merely data points and anecdotes. Many aspects are broken down into sections x be gates y, y because x. You don't learn the relationship between x and y, so with a new situation of w and z all you can do is attempt a basic correlation.

Intuitively people believe correlation works and intuitively people believe this is how you learn and intuitively people value their intrinsic thought process as being competent without realizing it is in fact biased and skewed.

idk, what bothers me while reading this thread : http://www.runitonce.com/chatter/an-elite-coach-that-do-not-know-the-simp/

is that I remember Marshall repeatedly stating in the past (here in LP forums/blogs) that his approach to poker is not exploitative but GTO based. Then, he makes such a silly mistake and admits he has made it all along while playing 10/20 players anonymously (or not) .
Certainly seems weird. I don't doubt he is a winner/has won a lot, I just wonder wtf is going on and how this can be possible...

dont know whats true, just here for the lolmarshall

looking at the thread it seems like those defending him are saying it's just because he's wildly insecure and likely exaggerates his results, they don't think he's sophisticated enough to actually pull a scam like this

I should also say, Jungleman a couple years ago, after already winning $5.5+ million from HU did not understand the relationship between betsize and bluff ranges, very similar to Marshall fucking his bluffing ratio up.

Jungleman believed that betting smaller bet ratios of the pot = larger bluff ranges (eg 25% of pot). Larger bet ratio = less bluffs (eg 150% of pot).

Jungleman battled with IKE/SAUCE and others about it for a few pages until giving up.

This was either Jungleman being math challenged OR merging his ranges, as he likes to do in poker and in life. Could easily have been trying to portray stupidity. I have no idea which is true.

just post dat graph homey and all this will go away..

+ Show Spoiler +

its because the maximally exploitative and the most optimal play for any spot r generally not the same. u don't need to know math to avoid using an exploitative approach ... it certainly would help tho to make your strategy more precise. my strategies are all very imprecise.

the graph is only 90k hands, i didn't think it was enough hands to be relevant

On January 07 2014 16:45 lebowski wrote: idk, what bothers me while reading this thread : http://www.runitonce.com/chatter/an-elite-coach-that-do-not-know-the-simp/ is that I remember Marshall repeatedly stating in the past (here in LP forums/blogs) that his approach to poker is not exploitative but GTO based. Then, he makes such a silly mistake and admits he has made it all along while playing 10/20 players anonymously (or not) . Certainly seems weird. I don't doubt he is a winner/has won a lot, I just wonder wtf is going on and how this can be possible...

That's a super bad mistake... Weird I kind of agree with the dude how can you really even win with that strat? Must not be what Marshall really even does

and what's 'all this' ??? i was accused of being a liar and a scammer. why? cuz i helped a bunch of people out and opened up my game to them but happened to make a dumb mistake in the comments section which had pretty much nothing to do w/ my process

i know how much i win. the only thing this is salting me on is making future videos ... im contemplating if i even wanna bother continuing at this point.

On January 07 2014 15:31 MadeInPolanD wrote: lol no nicknames/site names are requiered to post a screenshot of winnings/graph

yes because its so easy to post a graph on sites with anonymous tables that dont let you save hand histories. when you get into posting pictures of your withdrawals then you let everyone know what site youre on and gg games

Do whatever the fuck you want to do

however, posting graphs, making vids, teaching poker are almost 99.9% of the time -EV to a large audience

He does probably play on the softest 5-10 10-20 on this site (which I wont tell the name), probably softer than live poker, so I wouldnt be surprised me makes a lot from there.

I wasnt sure how good he was because making money there doesnt mean shit on your skills, but Ive watched his videos and I am a bit suprised, I actually enjoy/like his logic, a big step up from many video makers who basically have no brains no creativty but simply play GTO

i was avoiding posting in the other threads but felt i could post here and thought it was more likely i wouldn't get trolled ... if it starts to happen tho i'll stop. also, please don't link the 2p2 thread here or i'll stop posting.

but ... ive been around for like 7 years now ... all those retarded blog posts i made year after year ... what do u think it's some kind of big hoax and i sit here broke all day yet make some ridiculous plan to try to make videos on 5/10NL and 10/20NL on stars in order to dupe Phil Galfond into thinking I'm a good player so i could represent his site?

anybody who has known of me for that many years has to know it's utterly and completely ridiculous to assume that. ya i play on soft sites, i don't wanna have to play as long as u guys do for the same amount of money(or more). that doesn't mean i'm not capable of beating lots of different games. i did accept that hu4rolls challenge a year ago and crushed my competition.

how do i know im one of the biggest winners across multiple sites? because over the last 3 years i routinely played the highest games that were running across most of them. also i am usually the last one sitting at the table and everyone else quits. very few guys will sit me 5/10+ hu. there's a few more around nowadays but still only a handful.

my strategies are imprecise. that's how i can make that mistake assuming we are supposed to have 2 bluffs for each value hand on the river to be balanced -- none of my strategies actually encompass those explicit numbers, i was just trying to give a good answer for how to solve a spot when in fact i had never attempted to solve one before and i screwed up. i only have myself to blame for that and i learned my lesson, but the way ppl have been talking about me because of this is pretty ridiculous imo.

I sweat Marshall once and he was playing on multiple sites at the same time at the highest limits running. There was no question that he was making money.

On January 07 2014 18:41 Daut wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2014 15:31 MadeInPolanD wrote: lol no nicknames/site names are requiered to post a screenshot of winnings/graph yes because its so easy to post a graph on sites with anonymous tables that dont let you save hand histories. when you get into posting pictures of your withdrawals then you let everyone know what site youre on and gg games

he said he plays on multipile sites ( as i understand networks ) and i see:

On January 07 2014 17:44 MARSHALL28 wrote: the graph is only 90k hands, i didn't think it was enough hands to be relevant

rest are anonymous with no hh or you formated your hard drive with HMArchive folder?

i love newbsaibot but idk if him vouching for marshall's profitability is the best endorsement =D

Doesn't seem like a liar to me to, read a bit of his posts on his liquid blog. He might be the kind of guy to brag, and lie about hot bitches he's fucked, and how many of them. But not about poker.

Maths is overrated.

On January 07 2014 21:32 Mortensen8 wrote: Maths is overrated.

this.
I bet isildur wouldn't even make 5 points in the speed math game posted on general forum a few weeks ago

+1 for not a scammer but gigantic ego

more attention for the queen

What I dont understand is why do people rely on graphs anyway? A graph is easily forgable, just purge some losing hands and from a break even reg you can become a 10bb/100 winner.

Apart from that I feel like the poker community reacts with disgust to bad publicity, but then again it constantly seeks it out even if a thing has to be blown way out of proportion to reach that point...

Also if people hire coaches for the math aspect of the game for 2000$ they are fucking retarded and deserve to be exploited to that level

in before we find out Marshall payed someone to slander him to get attention and look heroic.

On January 07 2014 23:04 drone666 wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2014 21:32 Mortensen8 wrote: Maths is overrated. this. I bet isildur wouldn't even make 5 points in the speed math game posted on general forum a few weeks ago

link please

you mean link to the speed math thread?
http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-forum/1048294/Speed_Math.html

longple and looco made 7 and 10 points ( that actually made me feel good because I made 14~ max ), and they are both frickin good at poker, not sure if they were trolling tho

I'm pretty sure that there's a lot of sucessfull poker players that can't even do basic math, urubu111 is pretty sucessful playing up to PLO2k and he is really really dumb, some swede dude here said that isildur looks really dumb by the interviews

the regular crew back at my pad. there's no way these were taken before 4am, haha

On January 08 2014 10:59 drone666 wrote: you mean link to the speed math thread? http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-forum/1048294/Speed_Math.html longple and looco made 7 and 10 points ( that actually made me feel good because I made 14~ max ), and they are both frickin good at poker, not sure if they were trolling tho I'm pretty sure that there's a lot of sucessfull poker players that can't even do basic math, urubu111 is pretty sucessful playing up to PLO2k and he is really really dumb, some swede dude here said that isildur looks really dumb by the interviews

i wish i wasnt trolling

im starting to learn tho, how to do range math none exploitive frequency stuff blablabla. I obv need a calculator and a notepad for that

(i think im getting the hang of it)

speedmath tho, ugh

whats marshalls real name?

--- Nuked ---

On January 07 2014 19:07 MARSHALL28 wrote: i was avoiding posting in the other threads but felt i could post here and thought it was more likely i wouldn't get trolled ... if it starts to happen tho i'll stop. also, please don't link the 2p2 thread here or i'll stop posting

may want to reconsider this

On January 08 2014 14:01 Baalim wrote: whats marshalls real name?

Marshall Mathers

On January 08 2014 05:48 Spitfiree wrote: What I dont understand is why do people rely on graphs anyway? A graph is easily forgable, just purge some losing hands and from a break even reg you can become a 10bb/100 winner. Apart from that I feel like the poker community reacts with disgust to bad publicity, but then again it constantly seeks it out even if a thing has to be blown way out of proportion to reach that point... Also if people hire coaches for the math aspect of the game for 2000$ they are fucking retarded and deserve to be exploited to that level

Exploitation of uneducated people is often regulated in 1 way or another, either by gov, education systems, or vetting. No one deserves to be completely financially raped and that is why outing people/dubious ploys is important when there is no regulation or education.

In this instance, I have no idea about the math guy, but there a handful of MEGA rich smart people who sell their knowledge on math/formulas/data analysis to corps/financial institutions for millions. There is definitely some very deeply knowledged math poker people out there and $2k would not be a bad deal for the right information

How do you know if the knowledge is worth it or not when there is no regulation/education? It is a shit show, just like many sectors which do in fact have regulation/high education, so to expect an instance like this which lacks the very basic stop gates for scam artists makes it very important to share experiences and speak out when things appear 'not right'.

On January 08 2014 14:01 Baalim wrote: whats marshalls real name?

Peter Jennings

http://www.runitonce.com/pro-training/videos/all/fastbreak10/all/?page=1

Don't get me wrong, when i'm talking about the financial rape in this particular case I don't mean it should be like that in anything else. I'm expecting that the majority of people seeking out improvement to be completely aware of the knowledge they are getting in this sector. If a person is willing to pay out such a drastic amount its an absolute must to do his research beforehand.

And I'd say 2k$ is way too much because when i was preparing for different math exams i was taking private lessons with possibly the best alive bulgarian mathematician for 10eu/hr ( he later became deputy-minister of education ). Now you could tell me that it doesn't mean he would understand what he should teach when it comes to poker, but I'd be inclined to think that this would be wrong as he would mainly have to lecture combinatorics and even if he has to catch up with knowledge in the math aspect of the game it would take him no time at all and the cost wouldn't go higher than 20eu/hr ( really extreme case). Obviously i'm speculating. but I do think im making sense and obviously the standard here s lower so respectively the price is lower that it would be in West EU, but not by much. ( FWIW 20eu/hr would mean close to 75 lessons for 2k$ )

I'd be much more inclined to hire a professional math teacher and ask him to learn the math aspect of the game cuz he would also be completely unbiased whatsoever towards any component.

I understand where you are coming from in your projection of cost for information. You're line if thinking is the norm when it comes to pricing and cost expectation from a general population point, however, the price on knowledge isn't as just about how simple it is for a particular person to convey in the littlest time possible.

For instance, the $/hour model in general is considered a massive -EV proposition for gaining maximum value for transfer of knowledge. Business' exploit the people who charge per hour, haggle per hour costs, and in the advent you give them a reduced hourly, they will expect that reduce hourly in the future. In order to maximize EV you must charge for a service, not how long it will take you. The price you charge is based on your ability to effectively provide the service, otherwise, per/hour models are a 'race to the bottom' for costs.

My point is that most people don't know how to price the true value of services/knowledge because they don't know how to price how much the customer will make from the knowledge. It is financially -EV to charge $20/hour for something a customer will turn around and make $X thousands per year from that knowledge.

Shame on you marshall for not knowing everything at poker!

On January 08 2014 10:59 drone666 wrote: you mean link to the speed math thread? http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-forum/1048294/Speed_Math.html longple and looco made 7 and 10 points ( that actually made me feel good because I made 14~ max ), and they are both frickin good at poker, not sure if they were trolling tho I'm pretty sure that there's a lot of sucessfull poker players that can't even do basic math, urubu111 is pretty sucessful playing up to PLO2k and he is really really dumb, some swede dude here said that isildur looks really dumb by the interviews

On January 09 2014 11:59 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: Shame on you marshall for not knowing everything at poker!

Another exemple.
You can be dumb and succesful at poker , np

On January 09 2014 11:59 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: Shame on you marshall for not knowing everything at poker!

yeah basically. I would only say that RIO should be more forth coming on their vetting process for Elite people. I don't think marshall should post graphs or out any information. As a customer, you pay RIO to ensure/do all that for you, As an elite video maker, you shouldn't be harassed for misunderstanding something when (through a proper vetting process) your overall skill is vetted from other elite players.

When someone makes a mistake, the whole point of a community is to share a collective knowledge and bring everyone up though participation. Not shit all over people from poor professionalism. From my little knowledge of the situation, the shit seemed to come from both sides.

On January 09 2014 11:59 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: Shame on you marshall for not knowing everything at poker!

well, if someone can't figure out what 5 * 12 equals, would you say "shame on you for not knowing everything about math", or

"what a fucking retard"

Yea I mean this isn't something advanced this is basic. when villain bets pot on the river hero will be getting 2:1 on the call meaning in order to be balanced villain should have 2/3rds value 1/3rd bluffs to make hero indifferent to calling (unexploitable).

I don't think Marshall is dumb for not knowing this and think that he implements this in game even though he explained it backwards In a video or whatever.

It is basic enough though that I don't think it was wrong to call him out for it. All his credentials obviously should not be in question over this one mistake though.

More importantly what I think this means is that we are humans not computers. When we play we aren't crunching tons of calculations doing advanced range math on the fly. We make the plays we think are the best and try not to tilt.

On January 09 2014 17:48 bigredhoss wrote: Show nested quote + On January 09 2014 11:59 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: Shame on you marshall for not knowing everything at poker! well, if someone can't figure out what 5 * 12 equals, would you say "shame on you for not knowing everything about math", or "what a fucking retard"

Na i would say comon man you can do it , think harder

I would also not shit on a poker player who have proven himself more than competent over the years because of something like that
Not knowing an answer to X question, basic or not, does not mean he suck, or does not mean he is good
Tons of people know the answer to the question he got wrong , yet they are not as successfull as him... why? they know it! they should be better? right?

and......... i wrote a bigish post and deleted it, since i dont want to coach people too much, and i have to go :OOOOOOO

Haven't read much but this screams of some butthurt dudes attempting to make Marshall look like a hypocrite in anyway possible. Absolutely pathetic behavior and probably one of the biggest things wrong with the world today. I am actually a huge fan of transparency and ethical market policing but if this is just some loser basement dwellers grasping at straws to nitpick and blow certain mistakes out of proportion to make themselves feel better and soothe their vanity fuck them. Marshall has asked for a price on a service. If you don't like it or him, don't pay for it. If he is vastly misrepresenting his edge in games, of course, fuck him, time to spend money elsewhere. I do not have the time, energy, or interest to dig into this further I am just urging LP to be fair and honest and not let the 2p2/internet troll train blow the situation out of proportion. The world would be a lot better place if a lot of these basement dwellers used their time and energy into bettering themselves and adding value to the world instead of going on witch hunts to tear others down. Or, at least, organize the witch hunts a bit better to target people being more harmful than charging a few extra bucks an hour for a service likely at worst.

This whole thing is a load of fucking bullshit. Someone posted it earlier (I forget who), but yeah, it seems like a witch hunt. I agree that he seems like a relatively ego-centric fella that.. whatever actually. The guy is killing it. He's killing it on a lot of soft sites. So the fuck what? Good for him. I respect the game.

Although you seem to be a bit of an attention seeking guy, and you used to be a huge douche, you seemed to have changed. Perhaps you stopped drunk posting, I dunno.

Long story short - Although you may have been a bit of a goose, and you may still be, I think this whole fucking fiasco/thread is a load of total bullshit.

And no, I've never been a fan of you (mostly due to your past silliness) but I'm quite fucking certain you're a wobbly-level player (lol, just fucking around).

What a funny world the poker community is.

Marshall worked hard. He's now better than most. Deal with it, even if you don't like the ego-centric guy. such is life.

--- Nuked ---

This is so stupid, so much facepalm reading through this. OP didnt even have proof that Marshall was lying about his winnings, and since when does someone have to be good at math to be good in poker...??? people are smart at some things, and dumb at others; thought that was common sense.

On January 10 2014 03:09 Rapoza wrote: Read trough all the drama and my guess is ppl are picking sides too much and not paying attention to facts; 1- Marshall uses a basic hud which he claims its sole purpose is to find fish; This is very very awkward and i am surprised no one is talking about it. How on earth do you read ranges, or every reg plays the exact same range from every position on higher stakes? How do you know when villain is x/r too much or has other leaks if you are not using stats? How do you exploit or play GTO without mathematical background? Fish is rly easy to identify, if you dont feel the need of a more precise hud means you are bumhunting most of the time right? How do you expect do teach how to beat a tough field where most ppl are somewhat balanced without mathematical approach? Would be interesting if you could play stars for 1~2 month and post a 80k hands graphic to shut ppl off. If you really care about your forum image just do it and problem is solved, you will be revered as a King. 2- Has been around for a log time Certainly counts to his favor but its no proof he can crush a though field. Gus has been around for a long time as well. If i could find higher tables and play against ppl who are worse then me this means i am qualified to do coach about how to beat these stakes? just lol; 3- There is ppl who claims their acc/post on RIO have been deleted and their staff don't manifest about Marshall thread From past experience i know organisations avoid to answer questions every time shady things are going on. Not a good sign to say the least.

Hey man I understand your point, there's quite a few people in my group spending most working time on trying to come up and use static hand charts again do PF math and try to come up with the golden bullet perfect static ranges, rely completely on HUD and only make decisions based on it etc. They don't even play zoom but 6 table smaller sites so I felt obliged to reply and that coaches that don't do tons of math off the tables can still bring a lot in.

mathematical approach =/= having a hud.
If you play low amount of tables it doesn't add much even at stars. Plus Marshall plays high stakes on smaller sites where the player pool is very limited and players adjust constantly (and tables are anonymous often). I see it with so many people today they mass table and are blind without a hud even if they 1 tabled they would need a HUD to tell them what's happening xD




Also you over estimate mathematical approach imo, the game is far from solved, loads of players that crush do close to no math off the tables, but they arrive at solutions through experience. Not knowing the precise ratios will mean he can be theoretically off quite a bit if other people played near GTO or could exploit anyone who doesn't they could exploit his frequencies if he had static ranges but again
1) We are still far from solving NLHE 100bb+ multiplayer
2) you don't need to do math to be somewhat balanced, albeit it will be hard o play perfectly unexploitably.
Even nosebleed players control their frequencies in play using very imprecise position of the hand in their range, kicker, strength of their draws, even position of the second counter on their watch
3) he doesn't masstable so it's very doubtful he does have static ranges

Your request for Marshall to play 80k hands and send it as a proof of result is so ridiculous it's not funny and if any coach reads this they would love you so much for saying that. There is so many people that go on a heater, post a small sample that at higher stakes with large variance is pretty much irrelevant, and go ahea and claim they crush stakes and you should buy their lessons.

On January 10 2014 03:09 Rapoza wrote: Would be interesting if you could play stars for 1~2 month and post a 80k hands graphic to shut ppl off

lol. why should Marshall have to prove anything, to anyone.

If he averages at 10k a week playing on softer sites, then he would be losing alot of money by "shutting ppl up". and 80k hands proves nothing.

If i was marshall i wouldnt make videos. What is the fucking point?
Not worth his time

On January 10 2014 05:13 whamm! wrote: If i was marshall i wouldnt make videos. What is the fucking point? Not worth his time

If for nothing else, it might give you the feeling of doing something good for other people, because you dont get that from playing poker (Unlike in a lot of normal jobs, where you naturally get to help people in a way.). Also some people thrive recognition and appreciation.

On January 10 2014 05:37 Joe wrote: Show nested quote + On January 10 2014 05:13 whamm! wrote: If i was marshall i wouldnt make videos. What is the fucking point? Not worth his time If for nothing else, it might give you the feeling of doing something good for other people, because you dont get that from playing poker (Unlike in a lot of normal jobs, where you naturally get to help people in a way.). Also some people thrive recognition and appreciation.

Yeah and i can see Marshall as one of those people who likes to get their balls licked to the bone.

--- Nuked ---

just cuz i haven't done a bunch of specific range/math calculations for a bunch of spots doesn't mean my play isn't heavily influenced by game theoretical considerations. i must be using different heuristics to make my decisions than u guys.

krystal's first plane ride. lol.

On January 10 2014 04:55 LemOn[5thF] wrote: 3) he doesn't masstable so it's very doubtful he does have static ranges

i'm pretty sure he's said multiple times that he does use static ranges, not going to bother trying to dig it up though.

On January 07 2014 08:51 drone666 wrote: weird shit, joeingram posted here that he really enjoyed Marshall videos, then he posts on 2+2: Show nested quote + OMG A NL COACH LYING ABOUT RESULTS!!!!! SHOCKING i would be more surprised if someone who coaches NL was not lying about their results lol

haha, I had no idea who the thread was about when I opened up, I usually assume anyone who coaches NL tho is lying about results these days


I had to ask a few other people if I was really that bad at NL these days (i am) because I like his vids

On January 07 2014 14:39 Defrag wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2014 14:08 MadeInPolanD wrote: not sure why all coaches last year's winnings/graphs aren't available on Run It Once site as a standard Because coaching business is shady as fuck, and only way of making money for some of those coaches from poker is by coaching (duh...) and charging completely insane amounts of money. Not saying it's everyone, but it's pretty common, especially now after PTR is no longer available. Remember the guy praised as a math god on Polish Pokerstrategy (I think it was earlier this year)? He was charging $2,000 and hour, then it turns out his graphs were all fake and he couldn't beat NL25 himself. I could name just a handful of other Polish coaches in the exact same situation right here and right now (though charging less ridiculous amounts of money).

exactly, the whole coaching industry for NL is ridiculous at this point

It will happen with plo at some point in time as well

Fwiw offtopic if one wants to start learning PLO where does he begin ?

By playing PLO.

On January 11 2014 12:19 Spitfiree wrote: Fwiw offtopic if one wants to start learning PLO where does he begin ?

First you build a sacrifical altar.

On January 11 2014 12:19 Spitfiree wrote: Fwiw offtopic if one wants to start learning PLO where does he begin ?

Phil Galfond

On January 11 2014 12:19 Spitfiree wrote: Fwiw offtopic if one wants to start learning PLO where does he begin ?

by reading @JoeIngram1 twitter feed

Marshall NoMATHers LOL!!!!!!!

On January 13 2014 21:22 TheHuHu3 wrote: Marshall NoMATHers LOL!!!!!!!

ROFL

On January 12 2014 16:48 TimDawg wrote: Show nested quote + On January 11 2014 12:19 Spitfiree wrote: Fwiw offtopic if one wants to start learning PLO where does he begin ? by reading @JoeIngram1 twitter feed

On January 13 2014 21:22 TheHuHu3 wrote: Marshall NoMATHers LOL!!!!!!!

#followhuhu

On January 13 2014 21:22 TheHuHu3 wrote: Marshall NoMATHers LOL!!!!!!!

dat vision

lol

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-im_CKn9PPI8...0vIyQ9SYpt4/s1600/abe-simpson-gif.gif

worst poker scandal ever

On January 16 2014 15:28 NMcNasty wrote: worst poker scandal ever

^^ that is all LP has nowadays, have to milk it

this thread did not deliver

On January 16 2014 15:28 NMcNasty wrote: worst poker scandal ever

lol

On January 13 2014 21:22 TheHuHu3 wrote: Marshall NoMATHers LOL!!!!!!!

> Well played!

Holy shit, Venrae. I remember your id. Where have you been