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PokerStars to remove regular heads-up cash tables this week

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Garfed   Malta. Feb 09 2016 21:51. Posts 4818

PokerStars is not stopping with the controversial moves: it just came out today that the poker room decided to completely remove regular cash heads-up tables as we know them, and replace them with zoom tables.

The change will go live this week, on Friday 12th of February. This change comes kinda expected, as Amaya already removed heads-up tables from FullTilt last year.

Heads-up regulars have received the following e-mails:
" We are writing to inform you that as of Friday 12th February No Limit Hold'em, Fixed Limit Hold'em and Pot Limit Omaha Heads-Up regular tables will be removed and will be replaced with Zoom pools.

Heads-Up Zoom is already in place at most stakes and will be added at $50/$100. We will also be adding Zoom No Limit Hold'em Cap games at stakes up to $25/$50.

This change is part of our commitment to reducing predatory behaviour and improving the recreational player experience."

This change completely removes bumhunt (hunting for weak players only), but also the most important aspect of heads-up game - the ability to adjust and exploit one opponent and his tendencies. The games will look pretty much the same as regular zoom games - after every hands, you will switch the opponent and the table, right to the next one from the player pool.

What do you think about that change?

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 Last edit: 09/02/2016 21:51

Nitewin   United States. Feb 09 2016 22:03. Posts 1539

Kills the strategy behind poker too. You can only play your hand in a vacuum against randoms. They're destroying poker imo.


Teoita   Italy. Feb 09 2016 22:23. Posts 6

Sounds really really dumb


Santafairy   Korea (South). Feb 09 2016 22:25. Posts 2226

why doesn't PokerStars just remove itself

It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen 

leos147   Iceland. Feb 09 2016 22:32. Posts 171

,,,what are they doing?!


handbanana21   United States. Feb 09 2016 22:42. Posts 3037


Ryan Neilly   United States. Feb 09 2016 23:11. Posts 1631

quite extreme, i'd give it a chance first, imagine the player pools per limit won't be too big.


casinocasino   Canada. Feb 09 2016 23:25. Posts 3343

WTF


casinocasino   Canada. Feb 09 2016 23:25. Posts 3343

so my action on stars has been pretty much restricted to tournaments only


whamm!   Albania. Feb 10 2016 00:34. Posts 11625

just ban winners. feels like that's what they ultimately want lol


ClouD87   Italy. Feb 10 2016 00:38. Posts 524

Heads up is really bad right now though. Way too much pure bumhunting, regs will never face each other on most stakes. It just sucks and while I would rather have it removed I don't think this option is destroying anything positive we have now


VanDerMeyde   Norway. Feb 10 2016 01:38. Posts 5108

About 7 years too late

:DLast edit: 10/02/2016 01:39

Trav94   Canada. Feb 10 2016 06:59. Posts 1785


  On February 10 2016 00:38 VanDerMeyde wrote:
About 7 years too late



This is the most retarded thing ever ever seen. I bet you think all 6max players aren't bumhunters. You play 6max reg tables, you bumhunt. You look for the softest tables possible. It's obviously not possible to get a table at 100nl with 5 fish and 1 reg anymore, so you look for tables with 1 or 2 fish. This is the same mentality as "bumhunting" HU. Looking for the softest game possible. If you constantly just tried to play people better then you, you'd eventually go busto due to rake. This change is just making sure all the fish lose even faster vs all the crushers like Doug Polk etc...


dogmeat   Czech Republic. Feb 10 2016 08:22. Posts 6374

^butthurt hu player itt

ban baal 

PoorUser    United States. Feb 10 2016 08:30. Posts 7471


  On February 10 2016 05:59 Trav94 wrote:
Show nested quote +



This is the most retarded thing ever ever seen. I bet you think all 6max players aren't bumhunters. You play 6max reg tables, you bumhunt. You look for the softest tables possible. It's obviously not possible to get a table at 100nl with 5 fish and 1 reg anymore, so you look for tables with 1 or 2 fish. This is the same mentality as "bumhunting" HU. Looking for the softest game possible. If you constantly just tried to play people better then you, you'd eventually go busto due to rake. This change is just making sure all the fish lose even faster vs all the crushers like Doug Polk etc...

feel like this change is really just a grave poker players dug for themselves with terrible vs fish etiquette. this was the inevitability of everyone looking out for number 1 in the short term.

doubt it would have been realistic for this to go any other way these past years but i cant sympathize at all with anyone who feels surprised/jilted

Gambler Emeritus 

cariadon   Estonia. Feb 10 2016 09:58. Posts 4019

next up: all tables become anon and 3rd party programs are not allowed


MadeInPolanD   Poland. Feb 10 2016 12:55. Posts 1383


  On February 10 2016 08:58 cariadon wrote:
next up: all tables become anon and 3rd party programs are not allowed



and all of the 10 people that scream the loudest about bumhunting are finally satisfied

then they quit poker after 2 years of "downswing" ;o

Make it rain$$$ 

Romm3l   Germany. Feb 10 2016 13:15. Posts 285

pretty simple.. 20 players waiting alone for one fish generates 0 rake for the site. One fish joins one of the 20 regs, who filet the fish very quickly before the site can churn out rake.

make it zoom and those 20 regs in a pool with 1 fish will all churn out rake playing hands vs each other to get a chance to play the occasional hand with the fish. More rake for the site as a result of the catalyst getting the game going.


scriber   . Feb 10 2016 13:37. Posts 299

"This change is part of our commitment to reducing predatory behaviour and improving the recreational player experience."

LOL at this. Fish have some chance of finishing ahead when playing regs at normal tables , while at zoom fish will just get demolished and lose a lot faster.


Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Feb 10 2016 16:29. Posts 9634

It was either this or not allowing players to open new tables while there are ones not full
What Romm3l said sums it up pretty well


drone666   Brasil. Feb 10 2016 16:32. Posts 1822


  On February 10 2016 15:29 Spitfiree wrote:
It was either this or not allowing players to open new tables while there are ones not full
What Romm3l said sums it up pretty well



u are late mate, for the last 3 months pokerstars introduced KOTH and limited tables
also it had "good tables" that regs used to battle for them for the last 2.5 years at least

Dont listen to anything I say 

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Feb 10 2016 17:24. Posts 15163

what's your take on it Drone since you're the best HU reg here? Will you play Zoom or just spread across other sites?

93% Sure!  

drone666   Brasil. Feb 10 2016 17:34. Posts 1822

Ill probably play for the first weeks, many regs will simply go busto thinking they are better than they really are

same thing happened in the first 2 weeks of KOTH when it was introduced, but once it's established, my prediction is that is going to be impossible to win, billionmucks gave a good explanation at 2+2 thread:


 
We are all very aware that funplayers don`t multitable. You might get the occasional odd one out which playes 2 tables upon your request, but the reality is that HUNL funplayers are almost exclusively 1-tablers. So the question to ask is: What is going to happen when each reg can 4-table the pool? Lets say a funplayer sits at 500 zoom (a pool which is usually held by muumipoiss). What does Muumipoiss do? He instantly loads up 4 tables to make everyone aware that if they want in on the action, they better be prepared to 4table him. Any reg who wants to join and be profitable in the game must now have a winrate against the funplayer that is 5x as high as his lossrate vs muumipoiss (because only 20% of your hands will be played vs. the funplayer). And a good amount of people do meet this criteria. So quickly, another top reg, floppynuts09, loads up 4 tables. Now, any reg who wants to join profitably needs to have a winrate vs. the funplayer that is 9 times that of the lossrate vs. muumipoiss and floppynuts09. Suddently, the list of people who meet this criteria is getting quite short. The zoom pool is allready quite bad. And if a third top reg joins with 4 tables, surely the game is getting unplayable for just about anyone.



most 2k regs and half of the 5k regs already play nl400 and own the lobbies and they also play 500z

my mid/longterm plan is going to move to mtt's or PLO 6max, not really excited about it u_u'

Dont listen to anything I say 

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Feb 10 2016 17:35. Posts 15163


  On February 10 2016 12:37 scriber wrote:
"This change is part of our commitment to reducing predatory behaviour and improving the recreational player experience."

LOL at this. Fish have some chance of finishing ahead when playing regs at normal tables , while at zoom fish will just get demolished and lose a lot faster.


They will lose in more hands played actually at Zoom where regs don't get reads as fast on them. And instead of 5 regs playing each other+fish and generating rake you have a lot more. And that's for 6max - in Zoom even if 2 regs play a fish, that's 3 players instead of 2 playing

93% Sure!  

drone666   Brasil. Feb 10 2016 18:31. Posts 1822


  On February 10 2016 16:35 LemOn[5thF] wrote:
Show nested quote +


They will lose in more hands played actually at Zoom where regs don't get reads as fast on them. And instead of 5 regs playing each other+fish and generating rake you have a lot more. And that's for 6max - in Zoom even if 2 regs play a fish, that's 3 players instead of 2 playing



this wont work, fish will get the top level player even at lowest stakes and will lose the money in a blink
5k regs already get the top 400 tables for a while, and now everyone is forced to play zoom, is going to be way worse

not even talking about collusion and cartels, probably 20 russians will open 100z and fold vs each other and play only the other regs and the fish in the pool

Dont listen to anything I say 

cariadon   Estonia. Feb 10 2016 22:13. Posts 4019


  On February 10 2016 11:55 MadeInPolanD wrote:
Show nested quote +



and all of the 10 people that scream the loudest about bumhunting are finally satisfied

then they quit poker after 2 years of "downswing" ;o


i have no idea what the best solution is for "funplayers" and "regs" and pokerstars
the changes these days profit the site most with players having no say in this... nothing like the good old days of Lee Jones


Ryan Neilly   United States. Feb 10 2016 23:53. Posts 1631

if pokerstars ever went to a hudless environment, it would only benefit the long term grinders and mass note takers + color coders, im pretty sure it would be a great thing for most of us


maryn   Poland. Feb 11 2016 01:09. Posts 1208

pretty sure people would abuse stuff like notecaddy


casinocasino   Canada. Feb 11 2016 01:41. Posts 3343

Is it not a 3ed party software?

I am 100% pro removing all that stuff to make it a more fun playing enviourment but banning HU is crossing the line for me. I was just watching 2M2M and they all played HU..

HU is a essential part of high stakes action/battling..

blows my mind.


shootair   United States. Feb 11 2016 05:47. Posts 430

glad to see poker as teh alive and wellz


Stroggoz   New Zealand. Feb 11 2016 11:13. Posts 5297

not a big fan of HU zoom. I havn't played hu midstakes since 2014, but when you play zoom it is, for me at least, very difficult to play vs regs if there are several playing at once. it kills game flow, and makes it difficult to pick up ranges on particular regs because gameplay is fragmented.

But again i've only played HU zoom at nl50 lols.

I don't know what the HU scene is like now, but last time i played hu, at 1/2 up to 3/6, the only people wanting to play were usually better than me. Sometimes dropping down from 50/100 to play me, was ridiculous. I ended up dodging a lot of the better players, but 90% of the midstakes hu players (mostly seeking to play purely fish) didn't want to play me either.

This doesn't seem like too bad of a change if reg battling is dead anyway. You can always load up home games or play 6max deep tables for hu.

One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings 

dogmeat   Czech Republic. Feb 12 2016 07:03. Posts 6374


  On February 11 2016 10:13 Stroggoz wrote:
not a big fan of HU zoom. I havn't played hu midstakes since 2014, but when you play zoom it is, for me at least, very difficult to play vs regs if there are several playing at once. it kills game flow, and makes it difficult to pick up ranges on particular regs because gameplay is fragmented.

But again i've only played HU zoom at nl50 lols.

I don't know what the HU scene is like now, but last time i played hu, at 1/2 up to 3/6, the only people wanting to play were usually better than me. Sometimes dropping down from 50/100 to play me, was ridiculous. I ended up dodging a lot of the better players, but 90% of the midstakes hu players (mostly seeking to play purely fish) didn't want to play me either.

This doesn't seem like too bad of a change if reg battling is dead anyway. You can always load up home games or play 6max deep tables for hu.

its redistributing the wealth thou, thats something you really like, right?

ban baal 

NewbSaibot   United States. Feb 12 2016 10:17. Posts 4943

Do rec players want to play zoom HU though? I know they like zoom ring games because more hands and more action, and they dont care who they're up against. But I think rec HU players enjoy the thrill of trying to outplay someone. Seems like HU zoom would just be clicking buttons to them.

bye now 

Stroggoz   New Zealand. Feb 12 2016 17:09. Posts 5297


  On February 12 2016 06:03 dogmeat wrote:
Show nested quote +

its redistributing the wealth thou, thats something you really like, right?


I'm fine with making money from poker for my own personal gain and no one else. I probably wouldn't do it if student loans were paid for by the government and you could get meaningful jobs with degrees, but that's capitalism, something i have very little control over as an individual. I also enjoy playing the game for fun, but i quit back in 2014 when i was at the peak of my 'poker career', because i wanted to do something else that was more meaningful.

Some philosophers think you should get paid more if it increases the well-being of others in society. If people were to create a 'fair' society based on that principle, poker professionals like me would get paid the least since they contribute very little to society. But I'd be happy to go do some other job that contributes to the wealth of others. Capitalists would also get paid nothing, since they leech from the government in many different ways, and make money from oligopolistic competition and externalities in markets. And pokerstars would get paid little as well, since they basically hold a monopoly on online poker they can and are now exploiting it as is predictable, and that is detrimental for society according to economic principles.

One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beingsLast edit: 12/02/2016 17:18

RaiZ   France. Feb 12 2016 21:12. Posts 1503

To be honest I'm quite surprised about the changes of players for each hands in hu. Doesn't it defeat the purpose of hu in the first place ?

Shin-il : Yeah it was very very very good for me too. Rekrul : YOU MOTHER FUCKING FUCKING SON OF A BITCH 

 



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