What do you guys think? The bet is an all in BTW.

Guys 18/14/6 with 23% raise Cbet on flop over 500 hands.

i dont get it, is that a bluff or thin value

he is mmeeeeerrrging!11!

Def a bluff.

I figured his range here is mostly T's that beat me and missed FD's. I think QJhh is almost always raising the flop figuring how aggro is cbet raise is. I don't think a bare QJ ever calls turn considering how tight he is.

Goal is pretty much to get him off his better 10's. I don't ever think I'm ahead of any of his made hands considering he's 18/14. Figure he has a tough time calling with pretty much anything other than KT.

I haven't played since black friday so I might be sucking at poker :o

I dont like it, if we dont give him credit for a big hand here and we dont think he would bet a hand like KJ or something then we are better C/Cing here, his range of Tx isnt that big especially with us having a T also, also the Kx isnt a hand i super love it completes a decent chunk of his draws

erm if the point is for value i like it
if the point is for a bluff it's a fucking terrible bluff.

Only draw that got complete was QJ. I think bare QJ folds turn most of them time & QJhh raises flop with the rest of his big hands.

I would think even KQhh would have a pretty tough call here no? I've had a pretty good image up to here.

On August 31 2011 19:37 ManofFire wrote: erm if the point is for value i like it if the point is for a bluff it's a fucking terrible bluff.

When is an 18/14 ever calling here with worse? I'm pretty certain any made hand he has is beating me at this point, which is why I shoved. I figured I'd get him to lay down AT/QT/JT and even some KJ/KQ of hearts type hands. I have a good image, am UTG+1, bet into 3 people on this drawy board, bet the whole way and strong.

I figured all the hands I'm worried about raise flop or turn. Maybe the occasional QJo which I think an 18/14 would fold on the turn and maybe a QJhh in which he decided to slowplay on the flop. Though his raise Cbet% is 23 so it's pretty high so I'd think he raises most of his monster draws.

FWIW not trying to argue and show my logic is right. Just stating my reasons for why I thought it was a good shove that way people can tell me how my thinking is flawed.

1st time i've seen baal give advice. nice

doubt QJo folds to halfpot bet on turn in position

QJ never folds IP when he figures he might even have 10 outs, and while Kx do have a hard call here, most of the time when they call this way on the flop and turn and hit TP with their hands they usually are like "sigh... i guess i have to call now". so i dont think Kx folds often.

Hands that make sense for him to have are: j10,q10,k10, a10, qj, j8, XXhh - weighted towards kxhh and axhh

I think this really, really depends on if you think he's fold kx of hearts, or A10.

This is such a marginal spot, that I really think it's about 50/50. And you're getting about 1:1 so I think it's definitely okay.

On August 31 2011 19:48 Stim_Abuser wrote: Show nested quote + On August 31 2011 19:37 ManofFire wrote: erm if the point is for value i like it if the point is for a bluff it's a fucking terrible bluff. When is an 18/14 ever calling here with worse? I'm pretty certain any made hand he has is beating me at this point, which is why I shoved. I figured I'd get him to lay down AT/QT/JT and even some KJ/KQ of hearts type hands. I have a good image, am UTG+1, bet into 3 people on this drawy board, bet the whole way and strong. I figured all the hands I'm worried about raise flop or turn. Maybe the occasional QJo which I think an 18/14 would fold on the turn and maybe a QJhh in which he decided to slowplay on the flop. Though his raise Cbet% is 23 so it's pretty high so I'd think he raises most of his monster draws.

First your opponent is on the button so u need to readjust his range to be like 30% rather than 18%.
By going for thin value basically you are recognizing that a large majority of his range is missing since he didn't reraise cbet ie: a/10 10/9 qjhh maybe even k/10, and that ur opponent is putting u on random shit like suited connectors, xxhh a/x, 22+ , while u try to rep u a king, two pairs, a straight + a set, which by itself is pretty hard 2 do. Also b/c he knows u have a great deal of air he might call u with a/3 or some random shit thinking he's getting pretty good equity since u r repping a polarized board. Even if he does suck out on you by the river, and calls with a river king u can just reevaluate ur range and outplay him from there.


Finally by vbetting thin here you'll get paid off at later streets when you actually do have a hand since everyone will think u r a retarded maniac even though u r just deducing that a large part of his calling range that crushes you is missing since he didn't reraise the flop, and that u r crushing a lot of his c/c range towards the point that the river is a total nightmare for him unless he's a super lucker which might get him to spew his chips away at a later point.


Than again I'm a horrendous poker player that has epic trouble getting value out of hands so I need to do retarded shit like this just to keep myself happy.

On August 31 2011 20:22 traxamillion wrote: 1st time i've seen baal give advice. nice

It's cuz we're old school brah.

and we both enjoyed trolling the shit out of LPer's in L4D

lol l4d