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Progress report - NL25 |
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edzwoo United States. Mar 08 2011 05:22. Posts 5911 | | |
So as some of you know, I used some FPPs to bink Sunday Million satellites, which I turned into cash and gave myself a shiny new $500 bankroll. I've been itching to play some limits where I would be able to have some stress free fun, so NL25 seemed somewhat of a good idea. There are some people in my club that are struggling around these limits as well, so I figured why not journal my progress and sessions? It'll help me think a little clearer when I'm trying to explain stuff to other people anyway.
I'm going with the approach of playing very loose and not really caring too much if some hands may be marginal or arguably -EV. I think this is extremely beneficial for me because I am forced to find more difficult bluff and vbetting spots. Ideally this is educational for others as well.
So anyway...
The stats are mixed with some 2-4 handed, so with 6 people I'm running somewhere around 35/25 8% 3bet. I was also trying to 12 table, but I kept timing out. There was also this one table where two people to my left were 3betting 25%, and I lost like 15bbs before I realized what was going on. So I cut it down to 10 and things got a lot better. If I wanted to play my super A+ game though, I'd probably need to drop it to 6 or so. If I do a video at some point, I'll probably have to do 4 since my thoughts are usually pretty scattered when I try and talk while playing. It does help that I'm running hot too  .
I'll just go over 2 hands I thought were interesting, whether or not they were played well.
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
This is a spot that comes a lot, but to be honest I never really tried to do because I would be too scared. It should be rather standard for midstakes people to understand, but probably not something people at this limit would ever think about.
Villain is a relatively loose and bad Supernova player and raises UTG. I am flatting here extremely with things that don't even do well against a UTG range like QTo because both blinds are passive fish with 50+VPIP, and getting into pots with them should more than make up for being up against UTG's range.
Flop and turn is pretty simple. I have top pair. Maybe you can argue folding turn against nits, but I think on a KTx board you have to consider sometimes they might barrel gutshots.
River is funny. Villain bets 70% pot flop, 70% pot on turn, then tanks for a few seconds and bets under half pot on river. I'm just going to jam here because I think he's almost always betting here for value (in which case I don't beat him), but he probably bets like 7-8 if he actually had a flush. The second point is that I can rep a flush/straight pretty hard if I jam here since I'd take this same line with an FD.
One big flaw though, I honestly can't say I have a clear cut read on the guy other than his general weak playstyle, the line he took, and his sizing. Still, it felt good to me.
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+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
Flop and turn sizing was for value and protection on this texture. This was one of the villains that had 25% 3bet, but it dipped a bit to 16% (went to war with him twice, 4bet failed once and worked the second time) and his vpip/pfr evened out to around 19/12 or so. I made the mistake of thinking we were CO vs BTN here which imo affects this spot a lot.
Thought process at the time was he's probably 3betting KQ and better, and I figured my hand was good a lot, but I think he can have 8 combos of QJ and I don't want to lose to that. Also, if he does have something like KJ which peeled two streets, he's gonna be in a tough spot. Oddly enough I completely misread what his calling range was, and a big factor probably had to do with him assuming my range was really wide because it was SB vs BB. In a results oriented sense, I guess I played the hand perfectly since his calling range at this moment had every Ax and Tx, but I can't say I did it on purpose. It is kind of an enlightening thing though to realize your range can sometimes be perceived so differently.
Anyway, looking back I don't like how I played the hand with the reads I had. I'm already making a bit of an assumption that he can never have something like KQ here, and I honestly can't say he was going to fold QJ or KJ there, not to mention a flaw in my thinking is he probably has combos of KT. I didn't have much time to think it through and it was mostly narrow minded, "I'M GOOD A LOT BUT QJ MUST FOLD." I like my flop and turn play though.
There's a lot of other minor things I wasn't considering like possible slowplayed flushes and he might be raising QT on the flop, so it really doesn't make much sense to turn my hand into a bluff here.
Anyway, I'm getting pretty tired. Ideally I score a few more big wins and get to play some NL50 . Then I'll definitely beat Teng out of that prop bet.
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| | Last edit: 08/03/2011 06:32 |
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Jhyun88 United States. Mar 08 2011 06:33. Posts 1383 | | |
what is this cool kids club I haven't heard of |
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dogmeat Czech Republic. Mar 08 2011 06:48. Posts 6374 | | | |
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wobbly_au Australia. Mar 08 2011 07:33. Posts 6540 | | |
COMBO BREAKER...... i was expecting 245k |
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NewbSaibot United States. Mar 08 2011 09:33. Posts 4944 | | |
Why did you raise the river again in hand 1? Dont you feel comfortable with your showdown value here? You make it sound like you were bluffing because you expect him to value bet here and you can rep a flush????? I probably just 3bet his retarded utg minraise to take keep the pot HU in position with a pretty good hand vs the average fish's preflop minraising range. Regardless I guess I just like calling the river since he did 3 barrel afterall and with such a fishy image he has I might actually be worried about overpairs or weird 2 pairs. Meh..
Hand 2 I straight up put villain on a FD all the time every time. I mean check/call - check/call - check.... what can he ever have? I love the betsizing but would be pretty skiddish betting on the river because there really shouldnt be anything worse calling. The fact he did with ace high kinda illustrates this point. |
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Acckerman United States. Mar 08 2011 11:19. Posts 725 | | |
still banking on the fact that ur never goin to play within the next week |
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LemOn[5thF] Czech Republic. Mar 08 2011 14:03. Posts 15163 | | |
Saibot the point is that Dzwoo expects him to he never vbet a 2p+/a hand that willl call a shove like that, and a weak player won't call 1pair hand to a shove when all draws hit.
If your FEshove=almost 100% its inevitably higher EV than a call, eveb when a call might be +EV |
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| how can u shove the river, he cant possibly call with worse -TalentedTom | |
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edzwoo United States. Mar 08 2011 14:36. Posts 5911 | | |
| | On March 08 2011 08:33 NewbSaibot wrote:
Why did you raise the river again in hand 1? Dont you feel comfortable with your showdown value here? You make it sound like you were bluffing because you expect him to value bet here and you can rep a flush????? I probably just 3bet his retarded utg minraise to take keep the pot HU in position with a pretty good hand vs the average fish's preflop minraising range. Regardless I guess I just like calling the river since he did 3 barrel afterall and with such a fishy image he has I might actually be worried about overpairs or weird 2 pairs. Meh..
Hand 2 I straight up put villain on a FD all the time every time. I mean check/call - check/call - check.... what can he ever have? I love the betsizing but would be pretty skiddish betting on the river because there really shouldnt be anything worse calling. The fact he did with ace high kinda illustrates this point. |
I guess I could note that villain minraises pre as a standard. You could argue 3betting pre because he's actually fairly wide there, but I with droolers in the blinds I think I am heavily against that as I usually end up blowing them out pre. Calling river feels like it's going to cost me money here. We have to either assume villain is either value betting K9 or worse a whole lot, which I highly doubt, or he is bluffing a whole lot. I don't think by default we should be assuming this person is bluffing river too often.
Most importantly, if I don't think he is betting river with a flush like this and he's going to fold anything that isn't a flush, then there is no need to call ever. My jam should fold out his range almost 100% of the time, just look at the hand again, cover up my cards, and ask yourself what you do with AK or even a set. Getting attached to showdown value is something everyone tends to do, but you should always be weighing all your options.
For hand 2, just because he c/c c/c doesn't mean we can assume he always has a draw. Sure it's naturally the first thing that comes to mind, but if you had QJ or T9 here, do you raise flop or turn? Pretty much nobody does that, so he should have Jx and Tx in his range as well. Some people don't even raise QT here for the sake of it being too thin on a monotone board. We are very aware that he can have something like Ax with the ace of spades, hence my big flop and turn bets, but on the river that becomes irrelevant because it's going to fold (apparently not in this case, but usually).
The river bet is much different because villain's calling range has no draws. You can't chase on the river, so you have to deal with the possible made hands villain has. In this case I just felt like QJ was a lot of his range and he 3bets AQ or KQ better, so I figured to turn my hand into a bluff. The intention was not for value, but you do have to acknowledge some rare occasions you get called by worse like now. However I didn't fully think the situation through beyond that.
I guess you could argue a check, but a side point is I don't like how most people always say "c/c to catch bluff". The vast majority of the time people just give up and don't bluff their draw, you so you end up c/c vs a lot of made hands because his bluffing frequency ends up being a lot lower than you think. So anytime villain has some missed FDs and made hands in their range, I'm always extremely careful if I'm trying to bluff catch.
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egood United States. Mar 08 2011 14:52. Posts 1883 | | |
lol vnice outplay those 25nl nits! |
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Arirang Canada. Mar 08 2011 14:58. Posts 1673 | | |
Ahhhh!! Crushing the impossible limit ahhhh!!1 Man, you are like, really fucking aggro. Nice VPIP too LOL why don't you play the entire deck, you must be running over these kids. WTSD only sits at ~20%, so like.. you pretty much don't go to showdown, and if you do, like..they're fucked. Hand 2 is interesting. You got massive value out of that hand, I don't know if I could ever do the same, maybe with reads :S |
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Curious, why is NL25 considered the impossible limit? |
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SIG1 United States. Mar 08 2011 17:05. Posts 651 | | |
rm in sc2. im still mad at that op rush |
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edzwoo United States. Mar 08 2011 17:09. Posts 5911 | | |
hahahaahah, 5rax reaper ftw.
I haven't played SC2 in like 4 months though so I suck now! |
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SIG1 United States. Mar 08 2011 17:09. Posts 651 | | |
and ur a kimchi eater too rite? where u live in us |
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SIG1 United States. Mar 08 2011 17:10. Posts 651 | | |
i havent played sc2 in about 4 months too. i quit after that new league. i felt inferior |
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edzwoo United States. Mar 08 2011 17:49. Posts 5911 | | |
Home is in the Chicago suburbs, but right now living in Champaign. |
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player999 Brasil. Mar 09 2011 01:01. Posts 7978 | | |
| | On March 08 2011 06:33 wobbly_au wrote:
COMBO BREAKER...... i was expecting 245k |
I was expecting you to overbet shove -_- |
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| Browsing through your hand histories makes me wonder that you might not be aware these games are possibly play money. Have you ever tried to cash out? - Kapol | |
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K40Cheddar United States. Mar 09 2011 04:01. Posts 2202 | | |
| | On March 08 2011 14:25 ahole-surprise wrote:
Curious, why is NL25 considered the impossible limit? |
Cause it's a nit fuckfest |
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player999 Brasil. Mar 09 2011 04:14. Posts 7978 | | |
yeah I remember it being impossible back when I was playing it
it probably got impossible-r now |
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| Browsing through your hand histories makes me wonder that you might not be aware these games are possibly play money. Have you ever tried to cash out? - Kapol | |
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