Where do you see poker in life 5 years from now?

haha so often when people make threads in the main forums everyone yells and says 'this should be a blog post in your blog GTFO' except this time you actually made a blog post that would be fine if it was a forum thread

On October 28 2009 15:42 Ket wrote: haha so often when people make threads in the main forums everyone yells and says 'this should be a blog post in your blog GTFO' except this time you actually made a blog post that would be fine if it was a forum thread

haha ye though the same

either quitting cuz its not worth it if im still grinding under atleast 1/2 or 2/4 in like 1-2 years maybe

if i get over that level ill prolly try doing it more serious =)

On October 28 2009 15:03 LikeASet wrote: -just playing poker as a hobby 5 years from now.

I mean it's definitely possible to make a lot of money in poker still, but if you went to a good school, you can get a job that pays much more with less work/stress if you dedicated yourself to that.

On October 28 2009 15:42 Ket wrote: haha so often when people make threads in the main forums everyone yells and says 'this should be a blog post in your blog GTFO' except this time you actually made a blog post that would be fine if it was a forum thread

does this mean we can troll this blog and then start srs discussion in main poker?

On October 28 2009 16:07 Sicks Macks wrote: you can get a job that pays much more with less work/stress

you obv don't study civil engineering.

I'd take -playing poker as part time income.

On October 28 2009 15:03 LikeASet wrote: -playing poker as the only income, fuck a 9-5 completely

just started 2/4 now, can beat 1/2...i see no reason to not be able to be playing 5/10+ in 5 years and living fine off of it.

On October 28 2009 16:19 ThuNDeR wrote: Show nested quote + On October 28 2009 16:07 Sicks Macks wrote: you can get a job that pays much more with less work/stress you obv don't study civil engineering. I'd take -playing poker as part time income.

I'm assuming that hard work and dedication over a few years gets you beating 1-2. That seems to be consensus, and I personally think it's about right. The guys who make 100K+ at 1-2 grind their asses off like it's a real job and have probably been playing for a few years. I imagine it's only going to get harder from here, so let's say hard work, dedication, and grinding gets you 80-90k a year, 2-3 years after you start playing. If you took the same dedication and applied it to schoolwork/networking/internships (in the US), you'd probably make more than that 3 years out with a rising salary assuming you went to a v good school. Obviously there are exceptions on both ends of the curve, but I think the EV you get out of rocking out school and a good career path is higher for most people in college right now.

In the business world, master degrees are almost required to to land a good job and decent grad schools cost 20K+ atleast 2 years of your time. So if you're able to complete grad school without going insane then you can posibble land a job starting at 100K salary. So you can either try hard to land a 40K-60K starting salary job with a BA or 100K+ with a masters. So maybe we can fairly compare 2-3 years of poker progression to 2-3 of gradschool and job searching.

once you become a successful 2/4 or 3/6
-6 figure year income (expected)
-flexibility, can work any where any time
-no bosses breathing down your neck
-nothing to screw up but your own BR

once you land a managerial+ type job with a business masters...
-get some prestige (if that matters to you at all)
-6 figure income (garunteed)
-benefits (health/dental care etc.)
-slight flexibility (if you're a boss)
- coporate or executives breathing down your neck
- other people's work/ big projects you can fuck up

i guess it's a matter if you don't mind huge responsability and if you're risk averse or not. Climbing the coporate ladder or climbing stakes.

On October 28 2009 17:13 LikeASet wrote: In the business world, master degrees are almost required to to land a good job and decent grad schools cost 20K+ atleast 2 years of your time. So if you're able to complete grad school without going insane then you can posibble land a job starting at 100K salary. So you can either try hard to land a 40K-60K starting salary job with a BA or 100K+ with a masters. So maybe we can fairly compare 2-3 years of poker progression to 2-3 of gradschool and job searching.

This is completely untrue. I have 10 friends out of maybe 50 in college who make over 100k 2 years out, many of those who do not simply weren't that interested in money. I went to a school ranked between 12-16 nationally depending on what year you look FWIW. If you are actually interested in jobs that pay like this, I'd be happy to point you in the correct internship/study/interview directions. They aren't rare.

On October 28 2009 17:13 LikeASet wrote: once you become a successful 2/4 or 3/6 -6 figure year income (expected) -flexibility, can work any where any time -no bosses breathing down your neck -nothing to screw up but your own BR

I'm saying you have to have innate talent and luck to beat 2/4 and 3/6. A lot of good, smart people have tried very hard and failed, including people who were beating the highest stakes a few years ago. I'm being generous and saying that a smart motivated person who put in the time could beat 1/2 for a 3ptbb, and I'm not sure that's even true.

Please tell what kind of jobs possible to get with a BA in Finance for a 100K+ salary? I would actually apprectiate the info. I don't know where you're from but I'm from California and I know many friends and classmates that are graduating and then going back to school because they can't find a job at all, let alone land a 6 figure-income job. I go to a state college that is known for being a good business school.

On October 28 2009 16:56 Sicks Macks wrote: Show nested quote + On October 28 2009 16:19 ThuNDeR wrote:   On October 28 2009 16:07 Sicks Macks wrote: you can get a job that pays much more with less work/stress you obv don't study civil engineering. I'd take -playing poker as part time income. I'm assuming that hard work and dedication over a few years gets you beating 1-2. That seems to be consensus, and I personally think it's about right. The guys who make 100K+ at 1-2 grind their asses off like it's a real job and have probably been playing for a few years. I imagine it's only going to get harder from here, so let's say hard work, dedication, and grinding gets you 80-90k a year, 2-3 years after you start playing. If you took the same dedication and applied it to schoolwork/networking/internships (in the US), you'd probably make more than that 3 years out with a rising salary assuming you went to a v good school. Obviously there are exceptions on both ends of the curve, but I think the EV you get out of rocking out school and a good career path is higher for most people in college right now.

Depends fully what you like. I am sure I could have a 100+k salary out of school w/in 2 years as a chemical engineer if i had tried in school, but I hate chemical engineering so fucking much that poker is a way way more +EV decision for me long term.

Whatever you do, dont put all eggs in one basket. (Backing up with a McD-job doesnt count).

On October 28 2009 17:18 Sicks Macks wrote: I'm saying you have to have innate talent and luck to beat 2/4 and 3/6. A lot of good, smart people have tried very hard and failed, including people who were beating the highest stakes a few years ago. I'm being generous and saying that a smart motivated person who put in the time could beat 1/2 for a 3ptbb, and I'm not sure that's even true.

What about the live players, Ivey, Daniel, Patrik, etc etc. They dont mercilessly grind millions of hands and they are rich as nazi's. What do you suppose their winrates are and how do they achieve them? Just playing live mostly or something?

On October 28 2009 18:29 NewbSaibot wrote: Show nested quote + On October 28 2009 17:18 Sicks Macks wrote: I'm saying you have to have innate talent and luck to beat 2/4 and 3/6. A lot of good, smart people have tried very hard and failed, including people who were beating the highest stakes a few years ago. I'm being generous and saying that a smart motivated person who put in the time could beat 1/2 for a 3ptbb, and I'm not sure that's even true. What about the live players, Ivey, Daniel, Patrik, etc etc. They dont mercilessly grind millions of hands and they are rich as nazi's. What do you suppose their winrates are and how do they achieve them? Just playing live mostly or something?

they have all played poker many hours a day for many many years and live play is always easy and will always be around...if anything a persons plans who want to be a pro should be, online pro with live pro as a back up (if you can stand playing live) and then college degree for the 2nd backup as normal job.

On October 28 2009 18:17 rednalluk wrote: Whatever you do, dont put all eggs in one basket. (Backing up with a McD-job doesnt count).

ELITIST!

On October 28 2009 17:47 LikeASet wrote: Please tell what kind of jobs possible to get with a BA in Finance for a 100K+ salary? I would actually apprectiate the info. I don't know where you're from but I'm from California and I know many friends and classmates that are graduating and then going back to school because they can't find a job at all, let alone land a 6 figure-income job. I go to a state college that is known for being a good business school.

IB or Capital Markets Analyst Programs at any of the following places should get to over 100k per by year 1 or 2 (most is bonus, but it's essentially part of the salary):

Goldman Sachs
Morgan Stanley
ML/BoA
Citigroup
JPMorgan

and any smaller investment bank.

Equity Analyst/Associate Programs at good money management firms should too:

Capital Group
Fidelity
Janus
Etc...

Most of the hardest consulting companies to get jobs at (McKinsey, Bain, BCG) don't pay over 60k for the first few years but then scale up quick, many smaller ones will start you at around 110 with a BA.

Other random things that I' not too familiar with like working in patent offices and such can get you 6 in your first year too. Plus random smaller hedge funds and stuff. It's getting interviews at these places that is the hard part, but if you know you want money and you dedicate yourself from sophomore year or so (or you're hooked up) it's not too bad, probably a pretty comparable amount of focus to what poker would take.

Sick Macks,

I agree with you that those jobs as analysts net you incomes comparable to crushing midstakes regs. However, the workload and stress is by NO MEANS any easier or forgiving. I went to the University of Michigan and have tons of friends who underwent the Ross School of Business, one of the highest ranked BBA and MBA programs in the nation. From there, many took the standard path into finance, going on to work in firms such as McKinsey, Goldman, Nomura (formerly Lehman HK) Credit Suisse, Bain, AT Kearney, Jefferies etc. As first year analysts, they logged 70-100 hours a week grinding Powerpoint and Excel, traveling on red-eye flights (for the consultants), and generally working their asses off with an axe hanging over their heads (the economic crisis). Several are on their third and fourth years and things haven't gotten better.

Honestly, if you can beat 1/2+ at a reasonable clip and don't have a massive passion for finance/business, you might as well grind poker for 2-3 years and save up your assets to transition to a different business. Many people in the finance industry are also in it "just for a couple of years" before planning to head back to school or starting up their own business. It is NOT some "easier" more stable job, especially not at this time or place in our country's economic history. In terms of bonuses... yes, they add up to over 100k, but even that's questionable under the current circumstances. My friends at Nomura and Jefferies expected 100% bonuses first year out of school as this is what had been given the previous year. Instead, they received less than 40%. IMO poker should not be a long-term career track for most people - instead, I take heart from those pros I know who submerged themselves into it for a couple of years or so, saved up, and went on to pursue careers in trading (which is comparable to poker in terms of swings, management, strategy, etc.), entrepreneurship, or higher education.

On top of this, those finance-related careers you mentioned are for the creme de la creme of the academic elite. I heard some of the top investment firms aren't even coming to Ross to recruit this year, such as Blackstone and Goldman. If they are ignoring Ross, that means they are reserving their spots for the extreme top, such as Penn, Harvard, etc. Honestly, how many people here go to schools of that caliber and understand the culture of those institutions and the nature of these recruiting processes well enough to have a shot? Not to sound snooty or elitist, but I honestly believe that if you are smart and capable, but are going to a run-of-the-mill college (such as your avg state or community school) which is not ranked in the top 20, you shouldn't be mislead by pipe dreams of some bigshot banker job at a top firm. If you are already well on your way in terms of poker, it just might be more profitable to grab your nuts, dig deep for that patience and discipline, and grind SNE or something.

Also, your friends' situations do not apply to us right now. Just as little as 2 years ago in 2007, it was one of the biggest and most lavish recruiting seasons in years, with big bonuses and bigger offers. In the blink of an eye, 2008 was one of the worst.