please redline HELP

oh god.. seriously... it's not a huge issue at all. and i did not realize there was such a thing as retarded as the "trying to increase redline in microstakes is unprofitable" myth.

it's just a result of your playing style. it's not an issue of whether or not you're a winning player. i'm sure there may be junctures in your poker career where you break even for a long stretch or something, at which point might want to investigate some stuff like this and make improvements on your game. but there's really no point in agonizing about it right now. it might even end up affecting your game negatively.

If it's working you don't really need to change it up... however at higher stakes you're not going to be a profitable player playing the way you are right now. 2.3% 3bet is super low, basically every winning mid-high stakes reg is somewhere between 7 and 11% 3bet, you can pick up so much more money preflop 3betting light and at the same time increase the chances of getting paid off when you do pick up a big hand because people know that you can have bluffs aswell as monsters. At the moment you basically only have monsters in your 3betting range which is obviously super exploitable by anyone using a HUD or is anyway attentive. At the moment it's not a big deal cause you can 3bet your KK and get called by T4s even with 0 image because people at those limits are dumb, but your 3betting range should be wider against people play that way anyway, just add more value hands. 3bet more with hands like AQ, AJ, QK if they're going to call your 3bets a lot since they're going to call a lot preflop and fold a lot postflop and your hand is going to dominate a ton of their calling range allowing you to get a lot more value when you flop top pair. You don't even have to worry about getting 4bet bluffed at these limits cause that barely ever happens at these limits and anyone with a HUD is not going to try and 4bet bluff someone with 4% 3bet in the first place.

Postfloplook for spots to double barrel more as bluffs and semi bluffs, a classic example is when the flop is something such as T74, you bet, they call, the turn is an ace. Good spot to double barrel since a lot of their range to call the flop is things like 87 T9 JT 88 99 66 some straight draws/gutshot floats so you can get them to fold a large percentage of that range with a turn barrel, it's an especially strong play if you have some sort of equity to go along with your bluff, say if you have something like 65 98 45 on that board, some kind of outs for the times that you do get called. I have a fairly positive red line (More so than blue line nowadays) and I don't barrel with no pair no draw very often at all, there are not that many spots that are good for it against thinking opponents because if they know you're doing it with 100% of your range you're going to get called by those mid pairs, underpair type hands a whole bunch and you leave yourself with no outs and low fold equity which is a horrible combination. And it's simply not good against calling stations to barrel with no pair no draw cause they're not thinking about anything, they're just clicking call cause they have a pair.

Open up your range more in late position to steal blinds or isolate fish in position with a wide range where you can exploit their weak ranges and passive play by betting for thin value and semi bluffing them regularly to take them off their weak holdings. 14% PFR is very small and you're certainly folding some profitable hands to open with in late position and probably a few in earlier position also.

Don't go wild at first. When I played 25NL 6max I played something like 18/14 with about 3~4% 3bet and just gradually became looser as I moved through the limits, nowadays I'm playing $5/$10 and $10/$20 and play around 31/27 or so with about 10% 3bet. I did it gradually though, when I moved up to 50NL I was playing like 19/16, then 21/17 at 100NL, 22/18 at 200NL, 24/20 at 400NL, 26/22 at 600NL increasing 3bet % gradually also. The more aggressive you play the bigger your variance is going to be and you're not going to want to deal with the massively increased variance you'd get going from 20/14 to 30/20 or whatever, one small step at a time. I personally did this by having a set range of hands that I'd always play and some hands that I'd sometimes play if I thought the situation was good, such as if I haven't been playing many hands lately, the players behind are super tight, I've been showing down lots of good hands or whatever small reason to play a wider range and I'd just tack on a few hands as I moved up limits to my "always play" range and my "sometimes play" range.

Red lines for show, greens for dough.

It shouldn't matter how your lines look, as long as you are making money, your play style is working.

People may say it's not a huge issue or whatever, and right now it's not, but you should always be looking to improve your game and move up limits as fast as possible. I didn't move up as fast as I should've myself and I went from 1c/2c to $5/$10 in a little over a year, I continue to hold myself back nowadays by withdrawing my roll even though I'm not spending it and refusing to move beyond $10/$20, and barely even playing that limit. I've got myself stuck at $5/$10 to 2 years even though I've been beating that game for ~4ptbb/100 and even beating $10/$20 for more than 4ptbb/100 also.

Learn from people like me, people who've been through what you're going through and always be looking to move up as soon as possible and always improve. 20 buyins is plenty to move up limits as long as you have the discipline to move down if you lose a few buyins at the new limit. People who have made it big in poker, people like Brian Townsend who went from micro stakes to nosebleed stakes in one year did so with aggressive bankroll management and hard work, if you're ambitious about poker that's what you have to do. If you're winning at a limit and you have the bankroll you should move up with 20 buyins, that's what I should done long ago, I should've been playing $25/$50 for the past year, year and a half, but I've held myself back even though I'm winning well at the highest stakes I've ever played at. There are a select few players who grind midstakes and make millions, people like nanonoko who plays 2/4 through 5/10 and puts in MASSIVE volume and is somehow good enough to win at a high winrate despite playing so many tables and so many hours, but the majority of players who have a lot of poker success are the former, the ambitious hardworking individual who moves up as soon as possible. I wish I could go back 3 years to when I was at 25NL with the knowledge I have, I guarantee I would've made well over a million by this time.

Don't listen to those who tell you that it's not a huge issue, it IS a huge issue to always be looking to improve your game. The moment you stagnate is the moment you plateau, that's where I am. Don't ever be satisfied, keep playing and improving. That's how it's done.

This rant sounds kinda gay but I AM grateful for the success I've had in poker and the freedom that comes with it, but I do also have regrets for the lack of time and effort I've put into it considering the huge amount of free time I have on my hands. Good luck +_+

And although I say you should always looking to improve, the redline is not always the way to do so. There are a lot of winning players at the highest limits who have negative redlines, however you should be looking into experimenting and changing your style up and seeing what works out. The things I wrote above are things that people are doing, positive red line or not. Don't focus purely on the redline, but definitely think about things you can do better.

On September 16 2009 23:03 ToT)MidiaN( wrote: And although I say you should always looking to improve, the redline is not always the way to do so. There are a lot of winning players at the highest limits who have negative redlines, however you should be looking into experimenting and changing your style up and seeing what works out. The things I wrote above are things that people are doing, positive red line or not. Don't focus purely on the redline, but definitely think about things you can do better.

Midian, thanks a lot. I think this is the kind advice we take one day an never forget.
You just got one more fan.

vn posts midian

On September 16 2009 23:17 tutz_x wrote: You just got one more fan.

Make it two. Nice post.