Community

are you losing atm?

j/k, good for you

Agree with you (I think). There is no logical argument against the bottom line point (within it's own context), but that's just not how I want to live my life or see the world.

Having said that, I still constantly type comments in the hands section and then delete them before or after posting as I think "why bother".

helping ppl makes me feel good, so it is illogical for me to stop giving advice to others stop improving, because i value that feeling more than a very miniscule loss of profit amount from improvement i give to others.

feeling good also helps me grind longer sessions of poker.

edit: these values may seem intangible but i still think i can value them at a rough amount. And i can say one of those rough estimations in value is better than other rough estimates. Im only wrong if im seriously delusional.

On February 23 2012 11:39 Oly wrote: Agree with you (I think). There is no logical argument against the bottom line point (within it's own context), but that's just not how I want to live my life or see the world.

+1, either you find participating in a community to be fulfilling enough for you personally to be worth whatever -ev giving out free info costs you or you don't. you can't really logically prove or disprove that intangible benefits outweigh tangible losses. glad you'll be posting more tho :o

great =)

I think giving advice has more benefits than being a "nice fella".When you enter a strategy thread and think and write down your thoughts you also develop your own poker game. Maybe not THAT much, but verbalising your ideas and thinking will benefit your own game in some way (perhaps not if it is only fundamental decisions in low stakes forums).

Also it has some self-motivated purposes. Makes you feel good and confident. Especially if you get praised by others and quoted. Obviously this differ from person to person, but I'm sure there are som self-enhancement motives that drives us to give advice as well.

Im pretty sure we already had this debate some time ago... Anyway my argument as it was back then is that unless you are a tjbentham level player you will benefit from an active high level discussion forum, even in hand discussion for lower limits than you play in by bouncing ideas back and forth with other good players or just people that force you to defend your thought process. If durrr decides its not worth his time to participate its one thing, but when some nl200 grinder is scared to "give it all away" its laughable. Forget giving back to the community or karma or whatever, just from for our very own selfish reasons it would be beneficial to maintain an active community in a symbiotic sort of way, the whole idea of the community to me is to become better together and if you look at the past you can find proof of how it did work.


btw I think its nice you and nolan had dinner together

lol. which side is nolan on?
Also I don't remember us having this debate at all, how long ago was this and what was my argument??

other than discussing hands specifically which I just don't enjoy doing, imo there are lots of other ways you can add value to and benefit from a poker community.

I remember that thread as well. You were very anti community back then. Or at least it was your turning point (after you had made some CR-video)

Definitely against sharing or helping in a pure vacuum. The reason most people help (and you aren't aware of this most likely) is b/c the people you help are the ones who suck up to you. Do you really think just by sitting down on your computer that you want to dish out the answer to beating poker on a public forum to 'make the community grow?'. This is almost always a reaction to people giving you excess attention and love in order to buy your help, even if it isn't a direct approach to getting your help. It is known through the corporate ladder as well that you should always suck up at all times in order to increase your chance of promotion and growth in the job community, so why wouldn't it be applied here? If you are pro-community Ket, it is purely b/c you feel thankful for the support of friends and loved ones who have not shared the financial success you have, so now that you have both the money and the love, while all they have is love, you wanna make them all complete and ship some monies

you got me khan. This is just an elaborate plot to one day hopefully get a green star.

this is so 2007

What's so wrong with helping one another? ;(

I think that it adds tremendous value in a lot of ways. The prime example being that helping each other creates the community which otherwise wouldn't exist. This community can then band together to do good (i.e bad beat on cancer, milkman's donate to Africa stuff) and fight bad (speaking out against high rake games, help get online poker legalized for the US, 2p2 found out about UB hustling people ffs). Also I think every time you offer strategy advice there will be someone who questions your thought process which will lead you to question it and either reconfirm it to yourself or become better because of it so even in giving advice you are getting something of value out of it by opening yourself to criticism.

i enjoy reading people's HH and commenting on the hand based on their prespective and intel, I def enjoy reading other people's hands way more then my own. Also nice to see other peoples responses in spots esp when its significantly different from mine, helps me understand the mind of a tag reg

from only the economy angel im not sure, creating communities promotes poker overall, if there were no communities and shit poker would be smaller, training sites on the other hand are really bad for the profitability of the game obv.


however even if you conclude its longterm ev-, it for sure its life ev+

Having a community site to talk/read about poker related stuff is needed and is good. I agree with Baal that training sites are bad.

Anyway, posting hand histories and getting peoples advice on some things isn't bad, and if you don't want to give away too much detail about your game, just avoid replying to a thread.

The thing I don't like is when some players get "too big" for the community that they were once a part of, whether it's avoiding a website and/or people from that site/community. You can be a big time player and keep it real, just shoot the shit in the General/Sports/Blog forum if you don't want to give away secrets.

If you create a poker community, then you will make money from it. Mason Malmuth and Sklansky make so much bank from 2+2 theyve no need to continue to play poker.

Someone who plays nosebleeds probably isnt going to bat an eyelid about the repercussions of giving out advice to a midstakes player and so on and so forth down the line, and then some people just enjoy talking about poker.

If i actually met someone who I tried to talk some poker with and they said "I dont talk poker with people because it hurts me EV" id think they were a giant twat.