It all started about two months ago. I was alone at my house in San Diego. It was 2 AM, but I wasn't tired or sleepy. So I decided to watch a movie, and what better way to enhance movie watching than a vaporizer and weed? I took a few hits, then took a few more. Very soon I was completely baked and dousing myself in a world of interesting and trippy thoughts. It was very enjoyable. And then, suddenly, out of nowhere, it hit me. By the way, I'd just like to add that this rather long blog post won't be poker related.
The image of a circle appeared in front of me. It was the scariest thing I had ever seen in my life. It was immediately followed by a feeling of certain understanding of the workings of the universe. It was disgusting. Within the circle I saw the true meaning of time, eternity, and the horrifying, cyclical nature of the universe. My jaw dropped, my eyes were filled with terror, and I was completely motionless. I contemplated suicide.
A period of time passes (I'm not exactly sure how long, I had lost track of time) and I had calmed down slightly, but still had the horrifying ideas (which I will go into in a bit) in my head. I looked back at the movie that was playing, which by the way was Knocked Up, a pretty good comedy that I later enjoyed without such distractions. I simply could not appreciate the film whatsoever; every time I focused on the movie, I would notice how fake everything is, and that societal values are illusions constructed from evolution. I tried to force myself to sleep, in desperate hopes that I would forget everything. I did...
...Until 2 weeks ago. Myself and a friend of mine decided to take half a dose of LSD one evening. Neither of us hallucinated or anything, but probably because we didn't take a full dose and LSD requires a certain thresh hold to actually work. Anyhow, it was a fun experience that lasted until ~3 AM. He went to bed, and I decided to take out my vape and smoke some more. I went back into my room and took out my laptop, in preparation to read about Plato (I had been very interested in Greek philosophy). After maybe 5 minutes or so, the haunted thoughts I had experienced 2 months ago mysteriously returned to me. It was traumatizing.
I imagined that the human race, like all previous organisms, would destroy itself eventually. Culture constantly pressures competition, and the desires for greed and uniqueness would eventually cause world wide depression, and then insanity. The worst part of it all is, such a fate would recur over and over, from an eternity, to an eternity. I understood why I was so terrified of the circle. It represented the universe, and the idea of eternal recurrence. If you are not familiar with eternal recurrence, it is the idea that the universe is stuck in an endless loop, has always been, and will always be. It was originally popularized by Friedrich Nietzsche.
Basically, eternal recurrence logically makes sense, because, given a finite amount of constantly rearranging matter, and an endless amount of time, the matter would eventually be arranged in every possible configuration, an infinite number of times. Imagine an infinite number of hands of poker played. Every single possible hand and outcome would be played out an infinite number of times. Eternal recurrence implies that humans have existed countless times before in the past, and will exist countless times again in the future, once it inevitably destroys itself.
Imagine a sphere, and a line that travels around the sphere randomly, and infinitely. Would it not cross every path, make every turn, and arrive at every point an infinite number of times?
As I mentioned earlier, Friedrich Nietzsche was the original "father" of this theory. He wrote several books on eternal recurrence, but simply reading a lengthened summary of Thus Spoke Zarathustra made me rather nervous. I won't go into detail but basically, Nietzsche believes that humanity is only a step in a pre-designed evolutionary chain. He thinks that once humans truly grasp the undeniable concept of eternal return, the vast majority of them will shrivel away in depression and insanity. True understanding of eternal return will become the evolutionary factor deciding the next step of where life goes. Nietzsche calls the next step the Overman, which is an advanced version of the modern man that is able to not only accept, but embrace the idea of eternal return, and embrace the fact that every hour, every minute, every second, every one-millionth of a second, in the long run, will last an eternity. Every possible outcome of a person's life, of humanity, and of the universe will last an eternity.
The following is a famous quote from Nietzsche describing his first encounter with the idea of eternal recurrence:
"What if a demon were to creep after you one night, in your loneliest loneliness, and say, 'This life which you live must be lived by you once again and innumerable times more; and every pain and joy and thought and sigh must come again to you, all in the same sequence. The eternal hourglass will again and again be turned and you with it, dust of the dust!' Would you throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse that demon? Or would you answer, 'Never have I heard anything more divine'?"
Reading this was a bit scary for me, because it seemed to happen in the same way for me. I was alone, and the visions that came to me seemed external; I had never really studied philosophy or the idea of eternal return. Nietzsche said to truly grasp eternal return would, to any human being, "horrifying and paralzying" and says that "its burden is the heaviest weight imaginable." I seemed to have felt the exact same way.
Anyways, back to my earlier story. After witnessing these ideas in my head, I began repeating to myself the phrase "Constantly forced to destroy themselves." By themselves, I meant life in every form--cells which gave rise to animals, which gave rise to humans, which will give rise to the Overman. Each one is destined to meet its maker and perish, and the cycle will repeat endlessly. I probably repeated this phrase over and over for an hour or so. By now it was probably 6 or 7 AM, and I still couldn't get myself to sleep. I tried watching TV shows to take my mind off of it, but to no avail. My brain was so traumatized by what it had seen, it simply refused to leave it alone. For a while, I thought maybe I would be stuck in that miserable state forever.
My insomnia lasted till the next day. I was so depressed the next day, I didn't talk to anyone. I just sat in my room contemplating eternity and the eternal apocalypse. My roommates tried to cheer me up with gaming, but I just didn't have the stomach for it. I also didn't have the stomach for food. I ended up not eating for over 30, and not sleeping for over 50 hours.
I'm currently still recovering from that trauma, although each day it seems to get better. I've been able to reconnect with friends and family, but I still feel a looming uncertainty in my head at all times, haunting me.
I wish it to expire soon.
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Jas0n United States. Nov 23 2009 04:49. Posts 1866
must've been some sick weed
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YoMeR United States. Nov 23 2009 04:54. Posts 12438
On November 23 2009 03:49 Jas0n wrote:
must've been some sick weed
no shit you gotta hookit up with some of that shit you smoking cuz it's definitely some shit.
take solace in the fact that in your scenario every time you live through your life it always feels like the first time.
although considering the universe is finite i can't see why time wouldn't be, i also can't see why it would be either hahaha.
edit: byrne all that video makes me think is how miserable i would be if access to the entire world was suddenly stripped away from me, and at the same time how happy i would be if i could never understand that concept.
I'm actually becoming more religious day by day. I think I might become a buddhist or something... idk
I also wish I could be a true believer of christianity. Someone who believes in heaven and an eternal afterlife of happiness would be pretty psyched about their future, for pretty much every moment of every day. It would be like living in bliss. And if eternal recursion is true, they are able to relive that life over and over for an eternity, which, like a self fulfilling prophecy, imply that person practically be in heaven.
We must as humans put more effort into our continued future survival. Right now everything is so petty yet we've taken our first steps to visiting other worlds.
If the universe continues to expand apart from itself for an eternity then the matter will also fall apart for an eternity. And there will be no randomisation of matter.
Otherwise the universe will collapse in on itself and be destroyed.
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.
On November 23 2009 04:10 fira wrote:
yep, another example of eternal recursion
I'm actually becoming more religious day by day. I think I might become a buddhist or something... idk
I also wish I could be a true believer of christianity. Someone who believes in heaven and an eternal afterlife of happiness would be pretty psyched about their future, for pretty much every moment of every day. It would be like living in bliss. And if eternal recursion is true, they are able to relive that life over and over for an eternity, which, like a self fulfilling prophecy, imply that person practically be in heaven.
poker player turned Buddhist is a rich concept.
hahaha really. you truly think there are true believers who live a life of bliss from start to finish? rationalize, for eternal recursion to be true there would be no god at least not in the christian sense, and for one to truly fall into a certainty for the entirety of their lives and have it filled with happiness till the end without it being remotely true would require some form of dementia. although if you wished you were an individual with some sort of psychological imbalance that placed you in eternal bliss for all of your life, then that would make more sense, lol alas you cannot choose.
On November 23 2009 04:13 genjix wrote:
We must as humans put more effort into our continued future survival. Right now everything is so petty yet we've taken our first steps to visiting other worlds.
If the universe continues to expand apart from itself for an eternity then the matter will also fall apart for an eternity. And there will be no randomisation of matter.
Otherwise the universe will collapse in on itself and be destroyed.
Similar to the hourglass of time being turned over and over, I also think the matter in the universe acts in a similar manner. It expands in entropy, then shrinks in syntropy, over and over endlessly. Just like a metabolic system with anabolism followed by catabolism. What this implies for humanity, I'm not sure.
On November 23 2009 04:24 Etherone wrote:
poker player turned Buddhist is a rich concept.
hahaha really. you truly think there are true believers who live a life of bliss from start to finish? rationalize, for eternal recursion to be true there would be no god at least not in the christian sense, and for one to truly fall into a certainty for the entirety of their lives and have it filled with happiness till the end without it being remotely true would require some form of dementia. although if you wished you were an individual with some sort of psychological imbalance that placed you in eternal bliss for all of your life, then that would make more sense, lol alas you cannot choose.
That is why I said I wish I could be a true believer. I know that it is impossible to believe in both eternal recurrence and christianity, so if I had to choose one knowing eternal recurrence is real and christianity is not, I would rather believe in christianity. I'd rather live an eternally blissful life that is false than an eternally depressing life that is real. Maybe it's just me.
Last edit: 23/11/2009 05:35
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qwerty67890 New Zealand. Nov 23 2009 05:37. Posts 14026
But everything you encounter is a part of gods plan that he has for you.
So good times and bad times are basically the tapestry that god weaves for you. As long as you have accepted god, he will accept you into heaven.
So you arent going to constantly be happy in this life, but you will accept the bad events as being part of a path that you have to walk to achieve enlightenment, happiness and peace - and this should generally make them easier to accept.
Its a concept which to me, isn't sounding that bad anymore.
I think if you ponder the vast size of the earth compared to ourselves, and the size of the universe compared to the earth, it all become a very trivial matter. The concept of doing anything "irl" seems pointless - and its difficult to see how you can ever be happy (in this life at least)
That is why I said I wish I could be a true believer. I know that it is impossible to believe in both eternal recurrence and christianity, so if I had to choose one knowing eternal recurrence is real and christianity is not, I would rather believe in christianity. I'd rather live an eternally blissful life that is false than an eternally depressing life that is real. Maybe it's just me.
no im going a bit farther than that. claiming that since the eternal recursion is real you would like to be a true christian in order to live a life of bliss drenched in your falsehoods. i am saying that since the reality would be that a christian god does not exist it would be impossible for you to live a believing Christian's life and be happy.
I'll go so far as to say that all "christians" are unhappy if god does not exist, to clarify.
I'm saying I'd want to be a christian who believes with certainty that there is a god, much rather than an atheist who believes with certainty that there is no god. And if there are such true believers out there, I envy them. I'm sure their numbers are dwindling with each passing day due to the pandemic of technology and reason, but maybe a couple hundred years ago, this was not the case.
This kind of implies that a world run by religion would be a happier place than a world run by logic and science.
A friend of mine had always said if she could pick, she'd live in the Victorian times. I had always disagreed, before 2 weeks ago.
On November 23 2009 04:48 fira wrote:
I'm saying I'd want to be a christian who believes with certainty that there is a god, much rather than an atheist who believes with certainty that there is no god. And if there are such true believers out there, I envy them. I'm sure their numbers are dwindling with each passing day due to the pandemic of technology and reason, but maybe a couple hundred years ago, this was not the case.
This kind of implies that a world run by religion would be a happier place than a world run by logic and science.
A friend of mine had always said if she could pick, she'd live in the Victorian times. I had always disagreed, before 2 weeks ago.
and i am saying that all who claim that they are happy in true belief are lying if god does not exist, as it is impossible to fool one's self to that point without some help from some mental imbalance.
thus in your premise where god does not in fact exist you would be miserable infinite times over lol
This reminded me a bit of reading The Unbearable Lightness of Being, a novel which challenges the recurrence concept, and talks about how things which don't recur, that which is light, barely exist at all. It is a very very very beautifully written story, I suggest it. But it may make you sad forever - it has about as much hope and love for humanity as 1984!
Nice blog, I hope you feel better soon...
Researchers used brain scans to show that when straight men looked at pictures of women in bikinis, areas of the brain that normally light up in anticipation of using tools, like spanners and screwdrivers, were activated.
On November 23 2009 04:53 Oly wrote:
This reminded me a bit of reading The Unbearable Lightness of Being, a novel which challenges the recurrence concept, and talks about how things which don't recur, that which is light, barely exist at all. It is a very very very beautifully written story, I suggest it. But it may make you sad forever - it has about as much hope and love for humanity as 1984!
Nice blog, I hope you feel better soon...
did you just recommend to someone struggling with their existance something that "may make you sad forever"
On November 23 2009 04:48 fira wrote:
I'm saying I'd want to be a christian who believes with certainty that there is a god, much rather than an atheist who believes with certainty that there is no god. And if there are such true believers out there, I envy them. I'm sure their numbers are dwindling with each passing day due to the pandemic of technology and reason, but maybe a couple hundred years ago, this was not the case.
This kind of implies that a world run by religion would be a happier place than a world run by logic and science.
A friend of mine had always said if she could pick, she'd live in the Victorian times. I had always disagreed, before 2 weeks ago.
In terms of this I consider that spiritual belief and logic and reason are not exclusive, and it as a shame that they have been opposed. I like the outlook that that which is physical - the earth, dynamics, one's brain - can only be described by physics, obviously, and nothing else and to try and explain any of it in any other way is idiotic. Similarly, that which is spiritual can only be explained from the spiritual, and people fuck with this in both directions. They try and explain physical events with god (miracles etc), and try to explain spiritual concepts with physics (embarassing misapplications of quantum theory etc).
Researchers used brain scans to show that when straight men looked at pictures of women in bikinis, areas of the brain that normally light up in anticipation of using tools, like spanners and screwdrivers, were activated.
On November 23 2009 04:13 genjix wrote:
Very nice.
We must as humans put more effort into our continued future survival. Right now everything is so petty yet we've taken our first steps to visiting other worlds.
If the universe continues to expand apart from itself for an eternity then the matter will also fall apart for an eternity. And there will be no randomisation of matter.
Otherwise the universe will collapse in on itself and be destroyed.
Close your eyes and listen to him
Agent Smith anyone? (after the opening voice)
and i am saying that all who claim that they are happy in true belief are lying if god does not exist, as it is impossible to fool one's self to that point without some help from some mental imbalance.
thus in your premise where god does not in fact exist you would be miserable infinite times over lol
Well, even if it is truly impossible in today's world, in a world where the public believes in god in the same way the public believes in logic and science today, and there is no technology nor opposition that can make one think otherwise, the average person can surely achieve such bliss. Whether or not such a world existed in the past is uncertain.
Oly I'll look into it when I feel better, but atm I'm going to pass for my own good lol
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Silver_nz New Zealand. Nov 23 2009 06:28. Posts 5647
Nietzsche was good, but he is old... plato too.. eternal recurance doesn't seem that likely to me. maybe try some modern philosophy? I'm just starting to get into this stuff as well.
It started out innocently enough. I began to think at parties now and then to loosen up. Inevitably though, one thought led to another, and soon I was more than just a social thinker. I began to think alone -- "to relax," I told myself -- but I knew it wasn't true.
Thinking became more and more important to me, and finally I was thinking all the time. I began to think on the job. I knew that thinking and employment don't mix, but I couldn't stop myself.
I began to avoid friends at lunchtime so I could read Thoreau and Kafka. I would return to the office dizzied and confused, asking, "What is it exactly we are doing here?" I soon had a reputation as a heavy thinker. One day the boss called me in. He said, "Man, I like you, and it hurts me to say this, but your thinking has become a real problem. If you don't stop thinking on the job, you'll have to find other employment."
This gave me a lot to think about. I came home early after my conversation with the boss. "Sweetheart," I confessed, "I've been thinking..."
"I know you have," she said, starting to cry, "and if you don't stop, I'll want a divorce!"
"But dear, surely it's not that serious."
"It is serious," she said through her rolling tears. "You think as much as college professors, and college professors don't make any money, so if you keep on thinking we won't have any money!"
"That's a faulty syllogism," I said impatiently, and she began to cry again.
I'd had enough. "I'm going to the library," I snarled as I stomped out the door. I headed for the library, in the mood for some Nietzsche, with NPR on the radio. I roared into the parking lot and ran up to the big glass doors. They didn't open: the library was closed. To this day, I believe that a Higher Power was looking out for me that night. As I sank to the ground clawing at the unfeeling glass, whimpering for Zarathustra, a poster caught my eye.
"Friend, is heavy thinking ruining your life?" it asked.
You probably recognize that line. It comes from the standard Thinker's Anonymous poster.
Which is why I am what I am today: a recovering thinker. I never miss a TA meeting. At each meeting we watch a noneducational video; last week it was Porky's Revenge. Then we share experiences about how we avoided thinking since the last meeting. I still have my job, and things are a lot better at home.
Life just seemed... easier, somehow, as soon as I stopped thinking.
On November 23 2009 04:35 fira wrote:
Similar to the hourglass of time being turned over and over, I also think the matter in the universe acts in a similar manner. It expands in entropy, then shrinks in syntropy, over and over endlessly. Just like a metabolic system with anabolism followed by catabolism. What this implies for humanity, I'm not sure.
What you think happens and what actually happens are very different. Time in the modern relativistic definition only moves relative to the observer and has no absolute frame.
Finite can exist in the infinite. A good example is non converging number series. Anyway this is pointless to discuss because people who know nothing about the universe will argue about it and no one will ever reach any conclusive point because it's impossible to prove. People like to make arguments based on their thoughts/feelings without ANY attempt to rationality whatsoever.
so keep wasting time discussing god based on what you as a human thinks sounds rational to u
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.
fira Nietzsche has only flirted with the idea of eternal recurrence and it only appears in two of his books, even if he was fascinated by it.
It's sort of a metaphysical concept because it obviously can't be backed up by data and that's why N. himself didn't provide arguments or extensive thoughts on the matter.
Preferring to be a christian than someone uncertain of the way things work is like wishing to be stupid. Sure it might feel good to believe in fairy tales,but the first step of growth is to honestly try to know where you're standing,not to sweet talk yourself about a non existent fatherly figure just waiting for you to die.
Maybe the pessimism you feel is the result of you subconsciously still believing on some of those fairy tales until the recent weed trips.
Time to put things into a new perspective
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
How does this theory take into account the fact that the universe is not finite? If the universe was infinitely large, there could be an infinite way to arrange matter throughout the universe. For example, humans can get more and more technologically advanced and just keep expanding outward, and never experience the same occurrence twice.
Also, none of this matters because you're gonna die soon anyways. And by soon I mean within ~100 years.
If you recur again in the distant future because the atoms fall in exactly the same places, then you won't remember shit about your previous lives so you wont care.
Those who do not BELIEVE in krablar must CONCEDE to krablar.
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