NL Bots on Full Tilt

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sho...umber=10298242&page=0&fpart=1

just read all of it and it sure looks like real bots.

2p2 threads are so horribly cluttered by everyone throwing in their 2 cents, you have to wade through so much crap(100 posts saying "good job op" ) to get anything useful

Nit bots grinding low stakes, nothing to worry about. What's the difference between one of these bots and a nit? Nothing

Raise all in against the nit bot everytime, it has no odds to call...or does it?

Just min raise their blinds

shit im busted

lol PLEASE bring on NL bots? I'd pay 2BB per hour to play a bot HU

Submitted by : moneypoker

Full Tilt Poker Game #2387517715: Table Stonewater - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:16:21 ET - 2007/05/09
Seat 1: gfk105 ($185.40)
Seat 2: 2wenty5grand ($254.40)
Seat 3: Narena ($203)
Seat 4: Duckslayer2k ($197)
Seat 5: Rocky of Poker ($198)
Seat 6: PIPE17 ($274.25)
Seat 7: 0_Drunkenboxer ($255)
Seat 8: TheSarcasm ($202.10)
Seat 9: xlogic ($206.15)
TheSarcasm posts the small blind of $1
xlogic posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #7

Holecards
Dealt to xlogic
gfk105 folds
2wenty5grand folds
Narena folds
Duckslayer2k folds
Rocky of Poker adds $2
Rocky of Poker folds
PIPE17 folds
0_Drunkenboxer raises to $8
TheSarcasm folds
xlogic raises to $14
0_Drunkenboxer folds
Uncalled bet of $6 returned to xlogic
xlogic mucks
xlogic wins the pot ($17)

Summary
Total pot $17 | Rake $0
Seat 1: gfk105 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: 2wenty5grand didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Narena didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Duckslayer2k didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Rocky of Poker didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: PIPE17 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: 0_Drunkenboxer (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: TheSarcasm (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: xlogic (big blind) collected ($17), mucked

I think there are bots in the 2+2 forum, every post looks the same for 30+ pages, we should e-mail someone!

whats the deal with anti botting anyway?

any decent regular should be able to beat them for a good amount.... and fishes prolly dont even care anyway. this is stupid

and just like talentedtom said, it's no different that 12 tabling human hudbots anyway

well of course there is a difference of having nitty winning bots than losing fishes at your table (fish that also loses money to the bots instead of to you) and if one guy can make profitable bots there will soon be tons out there?

lol
this guys gonna end up in the loony bin
wtf??? zomg!!
I'm SURROUNDED BY BOTS!!
only I am real!! only meeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! ahhhhhhhh help panic panic destroy destroy

"Come with me if you want to live"

ok..Well on a semi-serious note, who cares about bots? Whats the threat? I don't get it.
The only thing I could see being worried about playing online is hacks and these "bots" are in no way related to that. Correct?
*scratches head*

i eat bots for breakfast

On May 09 2007 14:24 Balzamon wrote: well of course there is a difference of having nitty winning bots than losing fishes at your table (fish that also loses money to the bots instead of to you) and if one guy can make profitable bots there will soon be tons out there?

I dont get how so many people cant understad this and think like bot isnt a threat...

it most certainly is a threat, maybe not these particular ones but the technology is getting better and better

nits can be taken advantage of to you know
sounds like scared poker to me

On May 09 2007 15:02 Yugless wrote: it most certainly is a threat, maybe not these particular ones but the technology is getting better and better

A threat to what? This is where I am obv dumb. Are they hacking?

I'm amazed that so many people can't see the possible implications of allowing bots. Yes, good players at these stakes can beat them easily because they are so predictable. Judging it as a problem solely by whether you can beat them or not is an incredibly narrow-minded way of looking at it. Can the average player beat them? No, obviously not, because the bots are winning. That means that bots are taking the fish money that you could be making.

If FTP sets a precedent here and allows this one alleged bot (assuming it really is a bot, maybe they found something in their investigation), then it's not a stretch of the imagination to see them multiply. I play at 50NL and I'm not too enthused by the prospect of striving to make it to 200NL so I can play a bunch of regulars and rock bots that play way more than I can and take all the live money. I'm guessing, neither are a whole lot of people who either a) play recreationally or b) contribute to the poker economy by moving up stakes.

However, since this has been exposed, I find it highly unlikely that FTP will stand idly and do nothing. It will at least explain its actions...the negative PR will be way too damaging if it does otherwise.

Alot of pokerplayers have such a cocky attitude like you tloapc, and i guess thats not a bad thing its the nature of someone doing something competetive while being good at it. I mean sure you can probably beat the bots for an ok sum but i dont think you look at the hole situation. An overload with bots that takes away profit from less good players and at the same time makes it harder (you can still be winning vs them but imo it will be harder) for you to keep a good hourly rate. I would say it could make a clearly notable difference on how many players who are being able to move up in stakes (which will in that way have effect on the higher limits).

I guess my point is that even if you think you can beat them there are more factors to consider to why bots can fuck online poker up. This reminds me of the "having your pokermoney in dollar (which at the moment is a very unstable curency)" - thread, so many people being good at poker fail to see that there are other factors that are -ev.

Read through the first 20 pages of the 2p2 thread, it's a very good read. Through some circumstantial but damning evidence, it looks like they found the bot owners 2p2 account (he posted in the 2p2 thread). Doesn't look like FTP cares much, though.

And obviously the problem with these type of bots is not that they can outplay us/good players, but that they take a seat at the table and take fishes money, and though they are beatable they aren't as beatable as the average person.

after reading that post i can only think of all of the weirdos out there that worry about aliens. he reminds me of a guy claiming to be abducted by aliens. tloapc's post is hilarious and right on. after i read it, i thought of the movie Grandma's Boy and the guy that thinks he's a robot. i'm cracking up! hahahahahahhaha

So both of yalls point is that your afraid they will beat you to the punch of taking the fishies money? Killing off more and more fish making online poker harder and harder. If there is many other factors like you guys hint at, can you please explain them to me? (I'm admitting I'm dumb/narrow minded in this, so enlighten me to it all please)
Because hell, US legislation screwed that point up way more than any threat of bots if you ask me, so lets riot against that first and reopen the damn!
For the fishies!

on a side note - How does a person know for sure they are playing a bot? Because they play nitty? I mean, what concrete evidence can one have? You bet the same amount everytime, and never talk! There's quite a lot of people that multi table and have that script that bets 2/3s pot for you and play more than 5 tables so I bet alot of people are thinking they are playing bots. Which I think accusations like that just show how weak a players confidence is, unless there is some sort of proof?

*Sorry if this post doesn't make sense or is offensive etc, typing all this hella fast, gotta take my dad somewhere.*

Read through the thread, I'm pretty much certain based on the evidence given that they are bots. Actually you just have to read the OP to see the evidence.

And yes the main threat/why I don't like bots is because they
A) Play better than the average player, and so taking a seat give me harder competition and lower $/hour. Still beatable, but less money.
B) Take fishes money and give it back much slower.
C) Publicity nightmare for online poker in general

i dont care what you say
after reading that thread, i think this is amazing.

you know how many of those loser regs arent going to be playing on ftp anymore? thanks, see ya, more fish and terrible bots for me to molest.

lame someone cleared it up
all the monkies are gonna come back

Only good thing in that thread was the Pittsburgh sports history.

Regardless of whether bots will be easy to spot and beat or not is a moot point. The cold hard facts are that a high number of players will run with their tails between their legs and really not want to play with bots. If it can only decrease the total number of people playing the game, I would have to say that overall it is minus EV for poker.

obv with the name "1ForTheThumb" hes gonna be cheating, and the league (FTP) is in on it

tloapc - you're asking what are the evidence so you probably didn't even check out the thread. look at the stats. 4 different players have the exact same stats (very little differences - variance) and they always play different tables. it's not just that they're nitty. they play the exact same way all the time. obviously a good player can beat them easile. but they're taking fish money and not giving back as much as they're taking even when you're exploiting them to the maximum degree. but the most amazing thing is the way FTP handled it. thought they're the most solid poker room.

Update from 2+2:

"All,

I know chuck, the owner of full_tilting. I hesitated to write anything on the subject because he didn't want to draw more attention, but you guys are harassing him at the tables, so might as well prove you guys wrong instead of ignoring it.

Chuck is not using any form of a bot. He plays on full_tilting, and his friends play on the other accounts. They come over, play from the same IP address on different computers, and play exactly the same because they chop up all the profits. They sit next to each other and help each other out with difficult decisions, which is perfectly within the terms and conditions of FTP.

They are hard core grinders. They sit there all day to grind low limits and turn a good profit. Because of some player accusing them of being a bot, their accounts were frozen for the past month and a half, and they lost out on all of that potential profit. However, Full Tilt completely exonerated all accounts associated with full_tilting of any wrong doing.

Again, they're not bots or anything illegal against Full Tilt's terms and conditions. They are simply dedicated grinders who have developed a preflop and postflop style, and never deviate from it unless they have to adjust. They hammer new players and adjust for the regulars.

Now you know why they play so similarly; they play exactly the same. Chuck is a good guy, and to be honest, doesn't even know how to configure his virus protection; I had to do it for him. They play next to each other for motivation and chop up profits to reduce variance. Coming in every day, grinding, and sharing in the highs and lows makes it an enjoyable experience for them and is why they're able to grind for so long every day. It's a couple friends just shooting the shtt and putting a jihad on the 200nl tables.

tl;dr: They're not bots and they are acting within Full Tilt's terms and conditions.

-nation"


Nation is an experienced poster. So at least we have a plausible, albeit still unusual, explanation for all the objective data there is.

lol this thread is becoming funny to me as well
1) The cold hard facts aren't facts at all
2) People in general are morons, if your actually any good at poker there are always going to be fish. They aren't going to tuck and they aren't going to run anywhere if you make it easy for them to play..
3) What is true is alot of fish can't find their way/are prohibited from playing on the net
4) Having the exact same stats is a hilarious "bot fact" if you actually think about it - it holds no weight whatsoever
5) Paranoia man...paranoia
6) Spotting bots is more than just a moot point in this "issue." In fact I would think it would be one of the main issues. Are you really playing a bot or is your imagination just working you good. Or do you just need an excuse for bad play (aimed at noone in particular)
7) I didn't read the whole thread your right. I did however, read the whole original post. I might of missed some juicy details however because I ended up skimming it halfway/towards the end cuz nothing really seemed solid to me.

On May 09 2007 15:19 Balzamon wrote: This reminds me of the "having your pokermoney in dollar (which at the moment is a very unstable curency)" - thread

Link plz, can't find it :/

the reason bots are bad is b/c they take money from fish, don't give money to you and if found out fish withdrawal bankrolls instead of busting them

It is a greater threat than yyour average nit.

Why?

Because it doesn't tilt. That doesn't mean that you can't beat it though.

On May 09 2007 19:39 RiKD wrote: the reason bots are bad is b/c they take money from fish, don't give money to you and if found out fish withdrawal bankrolls instead of busting them

Right - i think that's very important here - people will become paranoid and the sites will loooose customers

If I was President, I would catapult anyone found using Poker Bots

everyone is gonna have to decide for themselves whether this guy "Nation" is believable or if its more plausible that FTP is allowing bots to bring in rake (??) while risking complete loss of consumer confidence in their site

On May 09 2007 15:19 Balzamon wrote: Alot of pokerplayers have such a cocky attitude like you tloapc, and i guess thats not a bad thing its the nature of someone doing something competetive while being good at it. I mean sure you can probably beat the bots for an ok sum but i dont think you look at the hole situation. An overload with bots that takes away profit from less good players and at the same time makes it harder (you can still be winning vs them but imo it will be harder) for you to keep a good hourly rate. I would say it could make a clearly notable difference on how many players who are being able to move up in stakes (which will in that way have effect on the higher limits). I guess my point is that even if you think you can beat them there are more factors to consider to why bots can fuck online poker up. This reminds me of the "having your pokermoney in dollar (which at the moment is a very unstable curency)" - thread, so many people being good at poker fail to see that there are other factors that are -ev.

if your playing a table of bots, minraise every single hand - you'll beat the game for 20bb seriously

xDDDD

loooooooooooool

haha I've been accused of being a bot a couple of times (i never chat).

On May 09 2007 21:04 TalentedTom wrote: Show nested quote + On May 09 2007 19:39 RiKD wrote: the reason bots are bad is b/c they take money from fish, don't give money to you and if found out fish withdrawal bankrolls instead of busting them Right - i think that's very important here - people will become paranoid and the sites will loooose customers If I was President, I would catapult anyone found using Poker Bots

Why do you want to catapult everyone to Africa Tom?

lol 72o,
the red one looks scary

I love that they have a vacuum robot in the pic above. Also as far as the 2p2 thread goes, looks like nation 'n bots defense is imploding: "he doesn't even know how to configure his anti-virus!", later found previous posts where he wrote AHK scripts (which would be the basis of any bot), lol.

On May 10 2007 04:07 bohus04 wrote: lol 72o, the red one looks scary

wtf? scary? that's Optimus Prime!

Leader of the motherfuckin Autobots. HE WOULD NEVER HARM A HUMAN BEING...


geeeeeeeez the kids these days.

On May 10 2007 05:09 lucifer wrote: Show nested quote + On May 10 2007 04:07 bohus04 wrote: lol 72o, the red one looks scary wtf? scary? that's Optimus Prime! Leader of the motherfuckin Autobots. HE WOULD NEVER HARM A HUMAN BEING... geeeeeeeez the kids these days.

but would he take your money?

maybe he takes money from degenerates and then donate it to charity? ;p

zzzomg 72o we need more energon cubes!!!