Arbeiten et trabajo - Page 3

On June 03 2018 13:34 bigredhoss wrote: Show nested quote + On June 02 2018 11:47 Loco wrote: If you admit to having read his blogs then you also admit to knowing he hasn't "made efforts to organize" so your post was a rhetorical question implying that his main problem is laziness. I just don't see what it's supposed to accomplish outside of ridiculing the guy. How would I know he hasn't made efforts to organize? I assume he doesn't post every single activity he does in his blog. My first post in this blog wasn't ridicule, it was a question. My second post contained some ridicule.   It's a bullshit question, you can't organize alone and you know he doesn't have a job. He has only been talking about this for a couple weeks yet you act like he has been deluding himself for years over this idea of organizing which he's not following up with. Also, this is just really unsophisticated either/or logic. Human motivation isn't reducible to "either you do X like everyone else or you're lazy". It's really just a question, I don't know why you're being so sensitive about it. Also, not having a job doesn't preclude someone from all human communication, of course he can make attempts to organize without having a job. There isn't a problem with my logic, however it seems to be a topic that carries a lot of emotional baggage with you which causes you to ascribe things to my writing that I'm not actually saying (see: Ascribing ridicule to a simple question, and Me never saying human motivation is reducible to 'either you do X like everyone else or you're lazy'). Imagine you are applying to a job, the position of Chief Boss of Organizing. The person interviewing you for that job may ask you a wild and totally unexpected question, like "What are some Organizing jobs or activities you've been involved with in the past?" or "What have you accomplished through Organizing?". It is not an accident that these questions are asked; people's past/current behavior is a good predictor of their future behavior. Of course, not having an answer to those questions doesn't guarantee that you wouldn't be a great Organizer, or that you don't genuinely care about Organizing. But the interviewer isn't trying to prove definitively that you can't do the job, just like I'm not trying to prove that if Rik doesn't do X, he's lazy (which is what you are erroneously accusing me of). I'm saying that his life and the explanations he gives point to him probably being lazy - and more importantly, delusional.   I don't see any cognitive dissonance involved in the part you quoted. It is true that people who work jobs they hate will envy people who aren't working and that envy is often expressed through frustration. They necessarily assume that this is a positive freedom without taking into account exactly what this means for the mental health of the person who is socially excluded and who has all this time on their hands. It's well recognized that the second most dangerous stage of life after infancy is retirement. People don't actually deal well with idleness, they need purpose, and work takes that central role in life. Contrary to popular belief, it's a lot harder not to work than it is to work. The cognitive dissonance comes from him calling his current life a pure way of living, meanwhile posting a stream of blogs that are full of conflict and discontent, posts which seem to be unprovoked by others. I thought that was pretty obvious. Also there are clearly situations where working is harder than not working, but I know you intended the last sentence generically, not as an exhaustive rule to every situation.   I had to drop out of school when I was young because of an anxiety disorder, despite my doing everything I could to resolve it, and what I kept hearing from my closest friend was how lucky I was not to be in school. When he found work and I didn't initially, that's also all I kept hearing. I was never asked about my well-being, it was just assumed that I must have been enjoying myself. People think about things subjectively and it takes some effort to try to see the bigger picture, and that's not something you are doing right now. It's impossible to know every detail of his situation. If I tell someone to eat green vegetables instead of chocolate cake, I'm not going to spend my time thinking about how they subjectively think about chocolate cake, or the duress they experience when faced with green vegetables because they had negative experiences with vegetables in the past. I also wouldn't be particularly moved by a bunch of wordy blog posts pondering whether the sacrifice of chocolate cake for vegetables is worth it in the long run, because chocolate cake brings this person real joy, and we all die in the long run anyway so why not enjoy the cake and screw the vegetables. Is eating vegetables and denying oneself cake really worth a little added lifespan? I would just say eat vegetables, not cake, and believe my advice to be justified. It's not perfect advice for everyone in every situation.   It's not a mystery to anyone here that he has issues, but these issues don't exist in a vacuum and the solution isn't reducible to "pull yourself by your bootstraps". You can criticise him for being impractical but you guys are going to the other extreme and just thinking about a complex life in a wholly one-dimensional manner. Not every call to action is reducible to a tired cliche involving the pulling of bootstraps. It's a shame that you and Rik have been so affected by ideological trolls that you see any advice involving conscious and focused effort as being some form of right-wing brainwashing.

I simply assumed that you understood what organizing meant in the context that he used it since he's been writing about anarchy a lot. Apparently you don't so maybe your question was a legitimate one after all. He was using this word in the context of revolution. Obviously, our times are not ripe for a revolution, so you can only organize in the workplace to make your life a little bit better. He can't do that either since he doesn't have a job, hence why I thought you were fucking with him.

He wasn't saying that he has been living purely. He was saying that he has been spending more time on "ends themselves", in other words, as an addict who has struggled with doing things that truly benefit him, his habits have begun improving, he's reading and learning more about the world and himself than he ever did when he was working his depressing job in the last 8 months, but people close to him are apparently annoyed with him now that he's got all this leisure time.

You totally lost me with your cake analogy, what argument or advice of yours is that supposed to map onto? It's not about knowing every little isolated detail of a person's life, what you need is a global or structuralist perspective if you're trying to make some accurate assessment about a person. Otherwise it's like putting your eye as close as possible to a painting and assuming that you have seen the painting as the painter intended you to see it. Or put in other terms, a localized perspective only sees the tree and never the forest.

What call to action was made? I only recall unnecessary value judgments/attacks on his character. He said he was already applying for jobs. I seem to be the only one here who can recognize that hasn't been lazy, in fact he's been more productive than ever in the last few weeks. These blogs are a replacement (or complement) to therapy for him and I think people should be more mindful of that.

To be clear, my main problem is with people who act with indignation towards jobless people, acting as if the central value of a person is predicated upon whether they're currently working or not. People are basically brainwashed and unable to empathize with jobless people because they don't really understand the system they are a part in, so they can only come to an uninformed conclusion about the character and motivations of those people. If that doesn't apply to you, then I really don't have a beef and this was more of a misunderstanding than anything else.

On June 03 2018 16:05 iakim322 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 02 2018 15:26 RiKD wrote:     On June 02 2018 10:22 bigredhoss wrote:   On June 02 2018 07:56 Loco wrote:   On June 02 2018 04:49 bigredhoss wrote: [QUOTE]On June 01 2018 02:50 RiKD wrote: Everyone should fucking organize.   On June 01 2018 19:25 RiKD wrote: Let's ORGANIZE! So, yeah, I am going to be unhappy and disobedient and organize if I can and not get run over in these negotiation man. What initiatives have you taken to "organize"? Give the fucking guy a break, geez. What's the purpose of this kind of cynicism? He's just learned a bunch of stuff and he's venting. He doesn't have a job right now but in the future he could organize with his coworkers to have better working conditions. It's not something to be cynical about, it happens all the time. The employees of my favorite restaurant in Montreal are doing it right now. I don't think my comment was that harsh, but maybe you're reacting to the perception of people piling on in this blogpost. I don't have anything against organizing for better working conditions in situations where it's warranted. Organizing is a new, exciting idea to me. Of course, it's going to come out when I am writing about this stuff. My only experience with unions was with the United Steelworkers. A very large union with a rich history. I didn't think it was possible to organize at a small restaurant. People can pile on with whatever they want. Maybe it will have a grain of truth to it. Some map of reality to it. I'm already getting my fair share and it's mostly from retired business owners and executives..... Fucking country club Fox News baby boomers. Great.   A problem I (and I'm guessing other people) have reading Rik's blogs is our real-life priors. I know too many people who are simply lazy, and use whatever rationale is most convenient to justify their laziness. Does that mean Rik is lazy? No, but it's enough to make me cynical when reading his posts. I don't even think being lazy is the worst quality in the world, but being delusional about it probably isn't healthy. I actually don't know the answer to the question I asked him re: organizing since he hasn't responded yet. But if the answer is 'nothing', despite being something he keeps repeating and professing to care about, it becomes harder to buy that his primary reason for being unemployed is moral/philosophical opposition to corporations (rather than being lazy). The fact that I am not working has allowed me to open my eyes on organizing. As I said I didn't even know it was an option. I thought the only defense a guy like me had was to have a bunch of money in liquid savings and other job options. Does everyone just want me to say I am lazy? I take care of my pets, I take care of my mom's garden, if you were to watch me train laziness would not be even close to a word to describe me, I make sure the dog gets a walk, and I read books. I don't think the absence of paid work inherently makes me lazy. I think a lot of people think that does make me lazy. That doesn't mean I am not lazy. Here's the thing, my last job I was very conscientious. Now, I am focusing more on reading and learning. I am a conscientious autodidact. What does that even mean? Exactly. What does that even mean? Seriously. What does that mean? I know for most it looks like laziness. "Books are for recreation. You need to be working." is what one guy told me. Here's the facts: I go on a family vacation June 13 - June 23. I am looking at some stuff in the time being but I am almost considering it a vacation until after June 23. My bankroll can support this. What seems to be the problem? I am unemployed because the restaurant I worked at closed down. Now, that I am unemployed and there is no MAJOR monetary pressure to be employed right this second I get to reading, discussing, watching YouTube videos. Go watch 2 hours of Chomsky on Anarchy. Guaranteed it won't make you want to look for a job.   I also think there's a lot of cognitive dissonance when he says something like this: Show nested quote + I've had people get kind of pissed at me that I am just sort of lounging around on the internet and reading books. What is so wrong with that? I am spending my time on ends in itself. That is a pure way of living. while there's a major theme of discontent and internal conflict in most of his blogs. When you add in his constant mentioning of his big PLO run and his important previous job, it just comes off as someone whose will and ego have been broken and he doesn't really know what to do about it. I mean did you see the blog where he posted a bunch of art that many people would obviously find beautiful, and made the comment that people would probably have to be 'hyper open-minded' like him to appreciate it? He's desperate to find a reason to feel special. There's obviously at least some merit to his ideas, the question is whether it's enough to justify his lack of action. Real life is messy. Only he can know how much internal strife attempting to kowtow to the 'masters' would cause him. You're getting pissed that I am just sort of lounging on the internet and reading books. Seems like everyone is. I've never said it was sustainable. It's just a short season of it. I've enjoyed it. Not at all times. It sucks when you are reading "Homage to Catalonia" and want more details on anarchy and communism and he is just continuing to detail the rather banal aspects of trench warfare. But, then you get Morin talking about reality and uncertainty and wagers and complexity and all this stuff and the brain starts lighting up. I bring the discontent and the internal conflicts to the blog. It's like a therapist but better. I can express exactly how I am feeling. In regards to PLO and the "important" previous job what exactly are you saying? Man, I am talking about not wanting to work at Starbucks because the owner's authority is illegitimate and I don't want to rent myself to them. Are you talking about I should have ambitions to play high stakes PLO again? Ambitions to work my way up the hierarchy at a multinational corporation? Man, I did these things and it wasn't for me. So, now everyone's going to call me lazy for that? One thing is probably true though. My ego is still a bit shaken from those experiences. My self image and ego haven't quite found themselves yet. AA may or may not have gotten me sober but it certainly didn't help with the ego situation. What do you do with no ego and no god? Read Nietzsche I suppose. I am extremely open-minded. I am not proud of that. It's just a fact. I think in that moment of writing what I did I was thinking of my father. He hates art museums and has never read a philosophy book in his life. One would have to be at least open-minded to enjoy the art in that blog. It came from a self-conscious place. "Here is some art that I appreciate and if you don't appreciate it fuck you." I wanted to be an artist when I was younger and my dad would always roll his eyes. He wanted me to be a chemist or an engineer like every male in the family. He never showed any interest in any of my artwork and only wanted to talk about how the Cleveland Browns were doing. I understand that is just who he is but it kind of sucks for someone who doesn't like chemistry, engineering, or the Cleveland Browns. I'll tell you this much. I'm not fucking kowtowing to any fucking masters but it does happen. I fucking hated myself when I would flatter the boss almost instinctually or laugh at his jokes that were not funny. But, I mean, unless I come up with some really bright ideas in the next few weeks I will be renting myself out to an owner. Hopefully, one I like. Hopefully, one whose authority is legitimate. Noone is getting pissed at you for lounging around the internet and reading. If that's what you want to do, cool. People are getting irritated because besides that, all you seem to do is bitch about how shitty ALL your other options are. At least that's what I get from reading about 10% of your bullshit. Now you've gone into defensive excuse making while calling conflicting people 'fox news something something'. Good stuff. Good luck.

I think something to clarify here is that when I am writing these blogs it's pure expression. The only person I think I called a "Fox News Baby Boomer" is GoTunk because I thought it would be funny and he reminds me of some of my dad's friends. I think in the quoted text here I am mostly talking about one of my dad's friends (and my friend) who is 32 years sober and we drive to meetings together. Since he is older and has many years sober it can become somewhat of a sage and student relationship. He has helped me a lot and I do really like him. He makes going to AA meeting more bearable but that doesn't mean he is enlightened. It's no use talking about how much I've learned about myself or the world in the last few weeks he just goes into AA mode and starts talking about how I am self-centered and need to stop spending time with myself. Like because the fact that I am an alcoholic means I lose the privilege to be alone and read books. "Books are for recreation, you should be working!" Whatever dude. He's got a strong personality which is something I like about him but it is also something I dislike about him.

I mean really the very first blog title could be tilted:

Go watch 2 hours of Chomsky on Anarchy. Guaranteed it won't make you want to look for a job.

But, everyone should go watch 2 hours of Chomsky on anarchy. Just not before looking for jobs.

This is just how I operate. After poker it was for about a year. After my first breakdown as I said it was a 6 months vacation with a lot of travel and reading poetry and literature. Not so much philosophy. I just needed beauty in my life. After I realized I didn't know how to be sober and quit my job. Actually, I didn't really quit. They just stopped paying me but they didn't explicitly fire me. Anyways, it doesn't matter. That was like 2 years. That was different. That was more about learning how to be sober and solidarity and fellowship and friendships. Then I just ran through a host of shit jobs until I moved down to Charleston, SC where I could breathe a little bit. I got back into Nietzsche. I think I was actually really into Jordan Peterson at this time. That was part of my growth in realizing he is mostly full of shit. So, now I am in this epoch. I typically grow more in these epochs of unemployment than I ever even come close to achieving in employment. That's not entirely true. I grew a lot by moving to Argentina playing poker, living in Malta, even living in Vegas. I grew a lot working my ass off every single day in the steel industry. You can hone a lot of life skills and business skills as a salesman. I don't know, whatever.

One thing about me is as much as I've always wanted to be a really tough guy I am a highly sensitive person.

It's about human development not development.

On June 03 2018 05:05 RiKD wrote: I am a flawed human being. I used to try and hide my flaws, cover up my flaws, not let myself be seen to be flawed but I am flawed. It's weird in this thread. Some of the backlash I am getting. It almost seems like certain people are trying to build a case against me. You don't have to build a case against me. I'm flawed. I don't have to be perfect anymore. It's a weird thing with capitalism. It's like we get addicted to it. This idea of acquiring more private property. People get pissed off if you challenge it. I don't think people like the idea that they are wage slaves either. Simply wage labor so the masters can acquire capital. The bourgeois dream. It's been sold to us our whole life. A surplus of capital so we can acquire bourgeois property. You don't see any fucking advertisements for family and friends, beans, rice, and bell peppers, time. No, it's for shit you don't fucking need and you wouldn't even fucking want it until they manipulated you into needing it. I've been there. I've been there for most of my life. It feels fucking great to not really be there at the moment. You start talking to people about capitalism and it's similar to telling someone Santa doesn't exist or that god doesn't exist and we are mere specks of dust living on a speck of dust and that we will experience immense pain before ceasing to exist. That's some reality. There is really not that much uncertainty to it. Steve Bezos doesn't give a fuck about you. Well, only in so far as you keep clicking the buy button on Amazon.com. You are not going to be Ray Dalio even if you follow all his stupid principles. You can go from one guy to the next. What do they have in common? Luck, high IQ, hard work, and typically ruthless when they had to be. Many times these guys are full blown psychopaths. It's no fun spending your days surrounded by covert manipulation and exploitation. That is the dominance hierarchy. How to play the game. Everyone is playing exploitation games it's just all under a fog of war. It's not talked about. It's not discussed. Every moment is a negotiation, a wager. Step 1 is making your boss happy. That can be accomplished by making him laugh, making his life easier, making him more money, etc. If you can make his boss happy while still keeping your boss happy that is an advanced play. Meh, we've been through this before. What's a 3% raise when inflation is 4%? It's how you increase the salary constantly getting these small incremental raises. Have your employer by the balls and go in for the kill when you can. My brother did this masterfully. He's like 31 and making $150,000/yr. Of course, he's just crunching numbers for one of those criminal banks but hey, he's living in a fucking mansion that he gets to fill with stuff! No, I love my brother and I am happy for him. Sometimes I wish I had that zone where I could just be a data scientist or an engineer and just love it and be more comfortable and not think about all this anti-capitalist stuff and not feel so much anguish. I've never had that in me. I've always been inquisitive. Even in high school I was always in a mood that there had to be something more to this. Stimulating humanities classes in college certainly helped but poker was that gateway that opened up the world to me. It's a never ending search. I am a seeker. I am a wanderer. Life is a journey. I don't believe in enlightenment. I don't know why I don't drink or do drugs anymore. I'm just happy that I don't. Perhaps, I can bear myself when I am alone. I don't believe in enlightenment (so what am I searching for?). I love a lot of buddhist thought but I'm not a buddhist. Maybe that's a mistake. I could see a life on an anarchist commune bringing more to the table. All I know is that there's more. I'm stuck in the future. I see myself in Africa. I wish to be in Tokyo, Kyoto, Okinawa but that's not it. Not yet. Similarly, with a return trip to Paris. I am better off in a coffee shop here with friends. I do wish that I spent more time with friends. I was going to join a secular humanist group but they are too rational for me. I like the people with feelings, with creativity. The artists, the autodidacts, the anarchists, the atheists. They are not always easy to find. So, many nights I sit alone in my room writing or reading.

The Dalio principles shit is even worse than we thought. It reminds me of a Black Mirror episode.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/0...icinity-secretly-fear-and-despise-you

The audacity of some of these guys.

The fact that this will become a new trend in management is depressing.

I've never seen Black Mirror.