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What's wrong with Trump? Honest question

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whammbot   Belarus. May 11 2018 03:16. Posts 131

*Asshole and brash new yorker
*Grabs pussy from a position of power
*Terrible social media user
*Not very intelligent (I keep hearing this)
*Megalomaniac

What else has he done so far that's ruined things to a point that Americans are really suffering? I have no skin in the game and god knows where im from we got problems of our own, just curious that after 2 years all the negative I keep hearing is stuff that is supposedly ABOUT to happen.

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visit my personal entertainment blog https://foundaz.comLast edit: 11/05/2018 03:37

RiKD    United States. May 11 2018 03:44. Posts 4799

- He is an asshole and a brash New Yorker. I think this helps him in our current culture.
- Much of our culture still puts people on a pedestal that can sleep with a number of attractive women
- I would say he's a brilliant social media user
- Trump is probably more intelligent than a lot of the people saying he is unintelligent.
- Megalomaniacs tend to thrive in the current culture

So, it is kind of like everything is wrong with him or nothing is wrong with him depending on your viewpoints of culture ideals.


NMcNasty    United States. May 11 2018 05:43. Posts 1911

add

* racist
* compulsive liar
* corrupt
* inexperienced

Nothing on the list so far has anything to do with political stances. Trump becomes even worse if you start to care about healthcare, the environment, the debt, not starting WW3, etc..


But no, Americans aren’t “suffering” under Trump currently, but that’s due to several factors:

The economy was doing really well when he took office, 8 years of solid recovery from the financial crisis under Obama.

Tax cuts and gutting environmental regulations are good for the economy short term. The price might not be felt till decades later.

Trump failed to repeal Obamacare. You don’t have the inevitable sickness/deaths that would have occurred otherwise.

Democrats managed to negotiate to maintain funding for other social programs, in exchange for agreeing to increase military spending. So Americans don’t “suffer” from the loss of these programs, but again, the cost is a significant debt increase.


So yeah most Americans can’t at all feel the effects of Trump and politics is just theater. As long as he sticks it to the libs on Twitter and is funny he’ll hold to his ~40% approval rating, which is historically low, but still disturbingly high given how obvious of a shitstain he is.


LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. May 11 2018 07:23. Posts 14488

I never understood the shock and horror of sjws and the media in the US about Trump, he seems like a great American president when it comes to his image etc.

NL5 Grinder 4Life 

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. May 11 2018 07:25. Posts 14488

As rikd said a lot of things about him also represent the classic Americana, just because the media have changed doesn't mean people have

NL5 Grinder 4Life 

Stroggoz   New Zealand. May 11 2018 07:26. Posts 3937

these are personality traits you are listing. It only affects people he interacts with, and this is far from importance compared to policy. the debate over politics surrounding trump are superficial, and he actually largely share's a lot of values that the liberal establishment have, and therefore the criticism of trump from say the new york times is extremely mild imo.

There are some criticisms of him that don't see much from the liberal establishment media:
-He's a war criminal
-He has environmental policy that is ruinous to human civilisation, and he could make changes that would prevent hundreds of millions of people from dying, but won't, (he claims anthropogenic climate change is a conspiracy invented by china, clearly this view is not accepted by scientists).
-He supports the same ruinous economic agenda every president since Carter/Raegan has supported. That is, he supports neoliberal economics even when it's creating large wealth inequality and causing large instability in the global economy from economic crashes.

The vast majority of American's have been suffering under neoliberalism, and they continue to suffer when Trump takes the reign. We should also add that hundreds of millions of people lost their jobs due to the financial crisis in 2008, many of them outside of america, like the many sweatshop workers in China-not people who can afford to lose jobs. Neither Obama or Trump has reigned in the banks to prevent it from happening again in the future.


Personalities of powerful politicians rarely make that much difference, even back in the roman empire the difference between caligula and aurelias behaviour had very little difference to the plebs and slaves-as explained by historians such as Mary Beard. The liberal media has decided the fact that he sexually harasses women is more newsworthy than the predictable hundreds of millions of people that will die over the next couple centuries because of his environmental policy.

I also agree with the criticisms of his personality as well though, and the people who can't see he is a small minded megalomaniac conman either lack social intelligence or are delusional/manipulated.

I was GTO in 2007 -wobbly_auLast edit: 11/05/2018 07:33

NewbSaibot   United States. May 11 2018 08:25. Posts 4807

My only issue with him is that he didnt deserve the win, it was simply handed to him as a "fuck you" to everyone by a loudmouthed minority

listening to edzwoo has made u a nit... *sigh* - Zalfor 

RiKD    United States. May 11 2018 09:04. Posts 4799


  On May 11 2018 06:26 Stroggoz wrote:
these are personality traits you are listing. It only affects people he interacts with, and this is far from importance compared to policy. the debate over politics surrounding trump are superficial, and he actually largely share's a lot of values that the liberal establishment have, and therefore the criticism of trump from say the new york times is extremely mild imo.

There are some criticisms of him that don't see much from the liberal establishment media:
-He's a war criminal
-He has environmental policy that is ruinous to human civilisation, and he could make changes that would prevent hundreds of millions of people from dying, but won't, (he claims anthropogenic climate change is a conspiracy invented by china, clearly this view is not accepted by scientists).
-He supports the same ruinous economic agenda every president since Carter/Raegan has supported. That is, he supports neoliberal economics even when it's creating large wealth inequality and causing large instability in the global economy from economic crashes.

The vast majority of American's have been suffering under neoliberalism, and they continue to suffer when Trump takes the reign. We should also add that hundreds of millions of people lost their jobs due to the financial crisis in 2008, many of them outside of america, like the many sweatshop workers in China-not people who can afford to lose jobs. Neither Obama or Trump has reigned in the banks to prevent it from happening again in the future.


Personalities of powerful politicians rarely make that much difference, even back in the roman empire the difference between caligula and aurelias behaviour had very little difference to the plebs and slaves-as explained by historians such as Mary Beard. The liberal media has decided the fact that he sexually harasses women is more newsworthy than the predictable hundreds of millions of people that will die over the next couple centuries because of his environmental policy.

I also agree with the criticisms of his personality as well though, and the people who can't see he is a small minded megalomaniac conman either lack social intelligence or are delusional/manipulated.



Blaming climate change on a Chinese conspiracy is a brilliant con. I am sure Trump is buying up real estate in Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, etc. just like Rupert Murdoch.


RiKD    United States. May 11 2018 09:05. Posts 4799


  On May 11 2018 07:25 NewbSaibot wrote:
My only issue with him is that he didnt deserve the win, it was simply handed to him as a "fuck you" to everyone by a loudmouthed minority



Oh, he deserved the win alright. He ran an incredible campaign.


Spitfiree   Bulgaria. May 11 2018 09:12. Posts 8201

The USA is the only country in the world which would eat up that kind of a campaign and it only barely did so because he was running against Hillary, and tbh If I were American and was forced to vote I would've voted for him instead of Hillary as well, to punish the system and the people voting for Hillary


LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. May 11 2018 11:06. Posts 14488

Yeah I'd be careful about breaking the banks etc. and thinking the government knows much better than the market.
Believe me we had that here before and it was a disaster

The problem comes when you let the market free reign
but then don't let it decide who fails but that's another story

NL5 Grinder 4LifeLast edit: 11/05/2018 11:07

Stroggoz   New Zealand. May 11 2018 12:16. Posts 3937


  On May 11 2018 04:43 NMcNasty wrote:

But no, Americans aren’t “suffering” under Trump currently, but that’s due to several factors:




yeah i disagree, looking at the economic statistics it's plain that people are suffering. There is a reason Obama used slogans like 'hope and change', and trump uses slogans like 'make american great again'. It wouldn't at all be a surprise to see America become a dictatorship in the near future with support from the same people who look for hope, change, and making America great again.

I was GTO in 2007 -wobbly_au 

NMcNasty    United States. May 11 2018 14:12. Posts 1911


  On May 11 2018 11:16 Stroggoz wrote:
yeah i disagree, looking at the economic statistics it's plain that people are suffering.



You're free to cite. The stock market has taken a recent deep but its near its all time high. Unemployment was recently announced at 3.9% which is ~20 year low.


 
There is a reason Obama used slogans like 'hope and change'



Obama took office in the midst of the economic crisis, universal healthcare wasn't enacted, and the previous president was a war-monger. Change was much needed and was for the most part achieved.


 
and trump uses slogans like 'make american great again'.



The implication being that America was in shambles due to Obama which was just a bald-faced lie. Trump's supporters ate it up though since it allows them an excuse for their cultural tantrum vote. Democrats/liberals did a poor job of calling this bullshit out. Part of it was indeed paying too much attention to political correctness and sexual harassment allegations, much of it though is the reluctance to tout success when the poorest Americans whom you are championing aren't receiving much of a share of the wealth. You also have the Bernie wing of the party fiercely advocating systemic change. So in the midst of all this Obama is effectively thrown under the bus, and the "America is in shambles" statement (lie) is conceded.


NMcNasty    United States. May 11 2018 14:17. Posts 1911


  On May 11 2018 06:26 Stroggoz wrote:
these are personality traits you are listing. It only affects people he interacts with, and this is far from importance compared to policy. the debate over politics surrounding trump are superficial, and he actually largely share's a lot of values that the liberal establishment have, and therefore the criticism of trump from say the new york times is extremely mild imo.



So you haven't ever read the New York Times.


Santafairy   Korea (South). May 11 2018 16:55. Posts 1276

you can make up any series of dyslogistics you want against trump and most saps will believe it, it's a pure boogeyman, anyone can do it

just follow cicero's rules of sophistry

Trump is the most destructive president in history. He is an avowed xenophobe, known sexist, and obvious racist. He is an utterly irresponsible buffoon - except for his administration's disastrous and discriminatory policies which even eschew the minuscule decency that previous Republican presidents still held on to, for which he is completely responsible. Even his own party is turning on him and he's by far the most hated president ever. With good reason. Orange. No longer red, white or blue[1], the tried and true colors of the banner at the vanguard of democracy, but pungent orange is now the color the world knows America by. A swollen, empty, balding orange spray-tanned ball. His crony capitalism begets nothing but corruption. But at least he's bringing great deals to the Russians he's joined at the hip with... treason much? Whether it's the NRA or his Wall Street buddies, no price is too low to sell out the American people. Just look at the tax hikes on the poorest Americans. Not to mention almost starting a nuclear war both with Russia and in Korea... For what? There's a reason the entire world denounces his dumpster fire moves like relocating embassies. Patently unqualified, his only achievement has been eviscerating his own country's economy, reputation, and not to mention democratic norms. Oh and using military and law enforcement to cement his power like a dictator. He has a bizarre fascination with the military for someone who only went to a military LARPer high school. I wonder if he will even leave the White House voluntarily when his all-too-long 4 years are up. Incompetent. Unhinged. Unfireable. I'm not sure the country or the world can survive much longer.

[1]sensible comma omitted courtesy of the failing New York Times

It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus HansenLast edit: 11/05/2018 16:58

Stroggoz   New Zealand. May 11 2018 17:05. Posts 3937


  On May 11 2018 13:12 NMcNasty wrote:
Show nested quote +



You're free to cite. The stock market has taken a recent deep but its near its all time high. Unemployment was recently announced at 3.9% which is ~20 year low.


 
There is a reason Obama used slogans like 'hope and change'



Obama took office in the midst of the economic crisis, universal healthcare wasn't enacted, and the previous president was a war-monger. Change was much needed and was for the most part achieved.


 
and trump uses slogans like 'make american great again'.



The implication being that America was in shambles due to Obama which was just a bald-faced lie. Trump's supporters ate it up though since it allows them an excuse for their cultural tantrum vote. Democrats/liberals did a poor job of calling this bullshit out. Part of it was indeed paying too much attention to political correctness and sexual harassment allegations, much of it though is the reluctance to tout success when the poorest Americans whom you are championing aren't receiving much of a share of the wealth. You also have the Bernie wing of the party fiercely advocating systemic change. So in the midst of all this Obama is effectively thrown under the bus, and the "America is in shambles" statement (lie) is conceded.


I said for the majority of americans. Stock prices affect the rich, and not so much the poor. The poor get paid in wages, not stock. The unemployment rating you are using doesn't take into account people who have dropped out of the workforce entirely. The one that does (U6) shows unemployment to be 8%. But even then, you are counted as 'employed' if you work one hour a week. Well marginal employment is a big characteristic of the neoliberal economy.

Like i said before, it is the fault of all the presidents since carter/raegan for the economic problems, and that includes obama, whose economic policy was slightly better than bush's, but in such a small way that we can see it doesn't affect the data too much. Furthermore, yes i do read the new york times and during the recession i read all of paul krugman's op ed's who was very critical of obama's stimulus for being too meagre. He also wrote a book on it-which i also read-called 'end this depression now', which made that argument again but with a lot of empirical evidence.

Bernie's support is a good thing, and he is arguing for systemic change. I don't see what that has got to do with the suffering of most american's, he hasn't gotten into power yet so he can't do much.


Here are some stats:




real wages almost the same as they were since 1979, far more charts available. 40million americans are food insecure and it is mostly young (under 18) people. Economic policy has been in complete service to the rich no matter which president is in charge, since the 1980's, Nixon was the last president where the poor had any real gains, as crazy as that sounds. So like i said, not blaming it solely on obama, it is the fault of every president since carter.

No need to call me a lier, since it's not true. You are misrepresenting me a bit as well.

I was GTO in 2007 -wobbly_auLast edit: 11/05/2018 17:35

NMcNasty    United States. May 11 2018 17:53. Posts 1911

Your own chart shows wages increasing, so that's hardly an argument for "suffering". Inequality is a different issue. You also aren't using any basis for comparison, its certainly not past America or other industrialized nations. American recovery has been much stronger than the European version precisely because of the stimulus package (not exactly sure why you're bringing that up here?).

But I'm generally with you (and Bernie and Piketty) that there are systemic problems with capitalism, just not the point where its worth throwing away votes for. I suspect many Bernie supporters were left disgruntled from the primaries (somewhat reasonably) and didn't vote. They weren't old enough to have learned the lesson from Nader in 2000.


NMcNasty    United States. May 11 2018 18:07. Posts 1911


  On May 11 2018 16:05 Stroggoz wrote:
No need to call me a lier, since it's not true. You are misrepresenting me a bit as well.



I'm not calling you a liar, more so Trump. The slogan is "Make America Great Again"

The "again" is vague, but I think the idea is something like Reagan's America before the Clintons, Bushes, and Obama. Trump is actually using a basis of comparison here.


VanDerMeyde   Norway. May 11 2018 18:37. Posts 4844

Did they just successfully play Good Cop (South Korea) Bad Cop (USA) with North Korea ?

:DLast edit: 11/05/2018 18:38

Loco   Canada. May 11 2018 19:52. Posts 19226


  On May 11 2018 08:12 Spitfiree wrote:
The USA is the only country in the world which would eat up that kind of a campaign and it only barely did so because he was running against Hillary, and tbh If I were American and was forced to vote I would've voted for him instead of Hillary as well, to punish the system and the people voting for Hillary



Your vote wouldn't punish "the system" or anyone though. It would have just wasted some time out of your day. In any case, that was the big lie that everyone ate up, wasn't it? The idea that Trump was his own man and he wasn't going to be a mere puppet of the establishment like Hilary? It's unclear from your post whether you still believe that's true or would simply have been duped at the time.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. (Mencken) 

 
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