What's wrong with Trump? Honest question

*Asshole and brash new yorker
*Grabs pussy from a position of power
*Terrible social media user
*Not very intelligent (I keep hearing this)
*Megalomaniac

What else has he done so far that's ruined things to a point that Americans are really suffering? I have no skin in the game and god knows where im from we got problems of our own, just curious that after 2 years all the negative I keep hearing is stuff that is supposedly ABOUT to happen.

- He is an asshole and a brash New Yorker. I think this helps him in our current culture.
- Much of our culture still puts people on a pedestal that can sleep with a number of attractive women
- I would say he's a brilliant social media user
- Trump is probably more intelligent than a lot of the people saying he is unintelligent.
- Megalomaniacs tend to thrive in the current culture

So, it is kind of like everything is wrong with him or nothing is wrong with him depending on your viewpoints of culture ideals.

add

* racist
* compulsive liar
* corrupt
* inexperienced

Nothing on the list so far has anything to do with political stances. Trump becomes even worse if you start to care about healthcare, the environment, the debt, not starting WW3, etc..


But no, Americans aren’t “suffering” under Trump currently, but that’s due to several factors:

The economy was doing really well when he took office, 8 years of solid recovery from the financial crisis under Obama.

Tax cuts and gutting environmental regulations are good for the economy short term. The price might not be felt till decades later.

Trump failed to repeal Obamacare. You don’t have the inevitable sickness/deaths that would have occurred otherwise.

Democrats managed to negotiate to maintain funding for other social programs, in exchange for agreeing to increase military spending. So Americans don’t “suffer” from the loss of these programs, but again, the cost is a significant debt increase.


So yeah most Americans can’t at all feel the effects of Trump and politics is just theater. As long as he sticks it to the libs on Twitter and is funny he’ll hold to his ~40% approval rating, which is historically low, but still disturbingly high given how obvious of a shitstain he is.

I never understood the shock and horror of sjws and the media in the US about Trump, he seems like a great American president when it comes to his image etc.

As rikd said a lot of things about him also represent the classic Americana, just because the media have changed doesn't mean people have

these are personality traits you are listing. It only affects people he interacts with, and this is far from importance compared to policy. the debate over politics surrounding trump are superficial, and he actually largely share's a lot of values that the liberal establishment have, and therefore the criticism of trump from say the new york times is extremely mild imo.

There are some criticisms of him that don't see much from the liberal establishment media:
-He's a war criminal
-He has environmental policy that is ruinous to human civilisation, and he could make changes that would prevent hundreds of millions of people from dying, but won't, (he claims anthropogenic climate change is a conspiracy invented by china, clearly this view is not accepted by scientists).
-He supports the same ruinous economic agenda every president since Carter/Raegan has supported. That is, he supports neoliberal economics even when it's creating large wealth inequality and causing large instability in the global economy from economic crashes.

The vast majority of American's have been suffering under neoliberalism, and they continue to suffer when Trump takes the reign. We should also add that hundreds of millions of people lost their jobs due to the financial crisis in 2008, many of them outside of america, like the many sweatshop workers in China-not people who can afford to lose jobs. Neither Obama or Trump has reigned in the banks to prevent it from happening again in the future.


Personalities of powerful politicians rarely make that much difference, even back in the roman empire the difference between caligula and aurelias behaviour had very little difference to the plebs and slaves-as explained by historians such as Mary Beard. The liberal media has decided the fact that he sexually harasses women is more newsworthy than the predictable hundreds of millions of people that will die over the next couple centuries because of his environmental policy.

I also agree with the criticisms of his personality as well though, and the people who can't see he is a small minded megalomaniac conman either lack social intelligence or are delusional/manipulated.

My only issue with him is that he didnt deserve the win, it was simply handed to him as a "fuck you" to everyone by a loudmouthed minority

On May 11 2018 06:26 Stroggoz wrote: these are personality traits you are listing. It only affects people he interacts with, and this is far from importance compared to policy. the debate over politics surrounding trump are superficial, and he actually largely share's a lot of values that the liberal establishment have, and therefore the criticism of trump from say the new york times is extremely mild imo. There are some criticisms of him that don't see much from the liberal establishment media: -He's a war criminal -He has environmental policy that is ruinous to human civilisation, and he could make changes that would prevent hundreds of millions of people from dying, but won't, (he claims anthropogenic climate change is a conspiracy invented by china, clearly this view is not accepted by scientists). -He supports the same ruinous economic agenda every president since Carter/Raegan has supported. That is, he supports neoliberal economics even when it's creating large wealth inequality and causing large instability in the global economy from economic crashes. The vast majority of American's have been suffering under neoliberalism, and they continue to suffer when Trump takes the reign. We should also add that hundreds of millions of people lost their jobs due to the financial crisis in 2008, many of them outside of america, like the many sweatshop workers in China-not people who can afford to lose jobs. Neither Obama or Trump has reigned in the banks to prevent it from happening again in the future. Personalities of powerful politicians rarely make that much difference, even back in the roman empire the difference between caligula and aurelias behaviour had very little difference to the plebs and slaves-as explained by historians such as Mary Beard. The liberal media has decided the fact that he sexually harasses women is more newsworthy than the predictable hundreds of millions of people that will die over the next couple centuries because of his environmental policy. I also agree with the criticisms of his personality as well though, and the people who can't see he is a small minded megalomaniac conman either lack social intelligence or are delusional/manipulated.

Blaming climate change on a Chinese conspiracy is a brilliant con. I am sure Trump is buying up real estate in Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, etc. just like Rupert Murdoch.

On May 11 2018 07:25 NewbSaibot wrote: My only issue with him is that he didnt deserve the win, it was simply handed to him as a "fuck you" to everyone by a loudmouthed minority

Oh, he deserved the win alright. He ran an incredible campaign.

The USA is the only country in the world which would eat up that kind of a campaign and it only barely did so because he was running against Hillary, and tbh If I were American and was forced to vote I would've voted for him instead of Hillary as well, to punish the system and the people voting for Hillary

Yeah I'd be careful about breaking the banks etc. and thinking the government knows much better than the market.
Believe me we had that here before and it was a disaster

The problem comes when you let the market free reign
but then don't let it decide who fails but that's another story

On May 11 2018 04:43 NMcNasty wrote: But no, Americans aren’t “suffering” under Trump currently, but that’s due to several factors:

yeah i disagree, looking at the economic statistics it's plain that people are suffering. There is a reason Obama used slogans like 'hope and change', and trump uses slogans like 'make american great again'. It wouldn't at all be a surprise to see America become a dictatorship in the near future with support from the same people who look for hope, change, and making America great again.

On May 11 2018 11:16 Stroggoz wrote: yeah i disagree, looking at the economic statistics it's plain that people are suffering.

You're free to cite. The stock market has taken a recent deep but its near its all time high. Unemployment was recently announced at 3.9% which is ~20 year low.

There is a reason Obama used slogans like 'hope and change'

Obama took office in the midst of the economic crisis, universal healthcare wasn't enacted, and the previous president was a war-monger. Change was much needed and was for the most part achieved.

and trump uses slogans like 'make american great again'.

The implication being that America was in shambles due to Obama which was just a bald-faced lie. Trump's supporters ate it up though since it allows them an excuse for their cultural tantrum vote. Democrats/liberals did a poor job of calling this bullshit out. Part of it was indeed paying too much attention to political correctness and sexual harassment allegations, much of it though is the reluctance to tout success when the poorest Americans whom you are championing aren't receiving much of a share of the wealth. You also have the Bernie wing of the party fiercely advocating systemic change. So in the midst of all this Obama is effectively thrown under the bus, and the "America is in shambles" statement (lie) is conceded.

On May 11 2018 06:26 Stroggoz wrote: these are personality traits you are listing. It only affects people he interacts with, and this is far from importance compared to policy. the debate over politics surrounding trump are superficial, and he actually largely share's a lot of values that the liberal establishment have, and therefore the criticism of trump from say the new york times is extremely mild imo.

So you haven't ever read the New York Times.

you can make up any series of dyslogistics you want against trump and most saps will believe it, it's a pure boogeyman, anyone can do it

just follow cicero's rules of sophistry

Trump is the most destructive president in history. He is an avowed xenophobe, known sexist, and obvious racist. He is an utterly irresponsible buffoon - except for his administration's disastrous and discriminatory policies which even eschew the minuscule decency that previous Republican presidents still held on to, for which he is completely responsible. Even his own party is turning on him and he's by far the most hated president ever. With good reason. Orange. No longer red, white or blue[1], the tried and true colors of the banner at the vanguard of democracy, but pungent orange is now the color the world knows America by. A swollen, empty, balding orange spray-tanned ball. His crony capitalism begets nothing but corruption. But at least he's bringing great deals to the Russians he's joined at the hip with... treason much? Whether it's the NRA or his Wall Street buddies, no price is too low to sell out the American people. Just look at the tax hikes on the poorest Americans. Not to mention almost starting a nuclear war both with Russia and in Korea... For what? There's a reason the entire world denounces his dumpster fire moves like relocating embassies. Patently unqualified, his only achievement has been eviscerating his own country's economy, reputation, and not to mention democratic norms. Oh and using military and law enforcement to cement his power like a dictator. He has a bizarre fascination with the military for someone who only went to a military LARPer high school. I wonder if he will even leave the White House voluntarily when his all-too-long 4 years are up. Incompetent. Unhinged. Unfireable. I'm not sure the country or the world can survive much longer.

[1]sensible comma omitted courtesy of the failing New York Times

On May 11 2018 13:12 NMcNasty wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2018 11:16 Stroggoz wrote: yeah i disagree, looking at the economic statistics it's plain that people are suffering. You're free to cite. The stock market has taken a recent deep but its near its all time high. Unemployment was recently announced at 3.9% which is ~20 year low.   There is a reason Obama used slogans like 'hope and change' Obama took office in the midst of the economic crisis, universal healthcare wasn't enacted, and the previous president was a war-monger. Change was much needed and was for the most part achieved.   and trump uses slogans like 'make american great again'. The implication being that America was in shambles due to Obama which was just a bald-faced lie. Trump's supporters ate it up though since it allows them an excuse for their cultural tantrum vote. Democrats/liberals did a poor job of calling this bullshit out. Part of it was indeed paying too much attention to political correctness and sexual harassment allegations, much of it though is the reluctance to tout success when the poorest Americans whom you are championing aren't receiving much of a share of the wealth. You also have the Bernie wing of the party fiercely advocating systemic change. So in the midst of all this Obama is effectively thrown under the bus, and the "America is in shambles" statement (lie) is conceded.

I said for the majority of americans. Stock prices affect the rich, and not so much the poor. The poor get paid in wages, not stock. The unemployment rating you are using doesn't take into account people who have dropped out of the workforce entirely. The one that does (U6) shows unemployment to be 8%. But even then, you are counted as 'employed' if you work one hour a week. Well marginal employment is a big characteristic of the neoliberal economy.

Like i said before, it is the fault of all the presidents since carter/raegan for the economic problems, and that includes obama, whose economic policy was slightly better than bush's, but in such a small way that we can see it doesn't affect the data too much. Furthermore, yes i do read the new york times and during the recession i read all of paul krugman's op ed's who was very critical of obama's stimulus for being too meagre. He also wrote a book on it-which i also read-called 'end this depression now', which made that argument again but with a lot of empirical evidence.

Bernie's support is a good thing, and he is arguing for systemic change. I don't see what that has got to do with the suffering of most american's, he hasn't gotten into power yet so he can't do much.


Here are some stats:




real wages almost the same as they were since 1979, far more charts available. 40million americans are food insecure and it is mostly young (under 18) people. Economic policy has been in complete service to the rich no matter which president is in charge, since the 1980's, Nixon was the last president where the poor had any real gains, as crazy as that sounds. So like i said, not blaming it solely on obama, it is the fault of every president since carter.

No need to call me a lier, since it's not true. You are misrepresenting me a bit as well.

Your own chart shows wages increasing, so that's hardly an argument for "suffering". Inequality is a different issue. You also aren't using any basis for comparison, its certainly not past America or other industrialized nations. American recovery has been much stronger than the European version precisely because of the stimulus package (not exactly sure why you're bringing that up here?).

But I'm generally with you (and Bernie and Piketty) that there are systemic problems with capitalism, just not the point where its worth throwing away votes for. I suspect many Bernie supporters were left disgruntled from the primaries (somewhat reasonably) and didn't vote. They weren't old enough to have learned the lesson from Nader in 2000.

On May 11 2018 16:05 Stroggoz wrote: No need to call me a lier, since it's not true. You are misrepresenting me a bit as well.

I'm not calling you a liar, more so Trump. The slogan is "Make America Great Again"

The "again" is vague, but I think the idea is something like Reagan's America before the Clintons, Bushes, and Obama. Trump is actually using a basis of comparison here.

Did they just successfully play Good Cop (South Korea) Bad Cop (USA) with North Korea ?

On May 11 2018 08:12 Spitfiree wrote: The USA is the only country in the world which would eat up that kind of a campaign and it only barely did so because he was running against Hillary, and tbh If I were American and was forced to vote I would've voted for him instead of Hillary as well, to punish the system and the people voting for Hillary

Your vote wouldn't punish "the system" or anyone though. It would have just wasted some time out of your day. In any case, that was the big lie that everyone ate up, wasn't it? The idea that Trump was his own man and he wasn't going to be a mere puppet of the establishment like Hilary? It's unclear from your post whether you still believe that's true or would simply have been duped at the time.

Employers love for their employees to work a lot of productive hours just as long as they don't have to pay for insurance or shell out paid vacations. They love the word "part-time" but don't like if their employers are working 2 jobs. They don't care if their employees are struggling to pay rent or eating ramen for every meal as long as they show up and are good worker bees.

This criticism of neoliberal economics is the future. Criticism of education. Criticism of culture.

Donald Trump being president doesn't mean ANYONE can be president like a lot of people are saying. It's silly. There will be a Bernie 2.0 that comes along or even a number of them. I am not sure if that is Elizabeth Warren.

I still haven't figured out if Kanye would really be for the people or just to position himself to be a billionaire and massage his ego.

On May 11 2018 18:52 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2018 08:12 Spitfiree wrote: The USA is the only country in the world which would eat up that kind of a campaign and it only barely did so because he was running against Hillary, and tbh If I were American and was forced to vote I would've voted for him instead of Hillary as well, to punish the system and the people voting for Hillary Your vote wouldn't punish "the system" or anyone though. It would have just wasted some time out of your day. In any case, that was the big lie that everyone ate up, wasn't it? The idea that Trump was his own man and he wasn't going to be a mere puppet of the establishment like Hilary? It's unclear from your post whether you still believe that's true or would simply have been duped at the time.

You're right about punishing the system, the only way to do so is by not voting on a global scale. I understand why your reasoning on the other part comes like that, but I wouldnt do it for those reasons. Hilary is a proven psychopath backed by the corporations, while the only thing Trump had proven is to be an idiot, with failing businesses (before any fanboy starts arguing on this - the facts are simple - he did not fund his own campaign, he did not release his tax records) and poor conman's skills. Then again the latter would only mean he's the easiest target for certain lobbyists as we can see


Also the real reason behind NK/SK "peace" is China and Russia. They finally enabled the mass sanctions, which would've definitely led to a revolution in NK. The masses are fed a different story and Trump will probably even get a Peace Nobel because of it. We can fast forward a few years in the future and the story between SK and NK will be the same. They have already struck peace before when NK were suffering

On May 11 2018 08:05 RiKD wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2018 07:25 NewbSaibot wrote: My only issue with him is that he didnt deserve the win, it was simply handed to him as a "fuck you" to everyone by a loudmouthed minority Oh, he deserved the win alright. He ran an incredible campaign.

you're giving this guy way too much credit. he is a fad diet or a popular self help book. he appealed to people who desperately wanted to believe in change or people who were too exhausted from all the campaigning to make a well conceived decision. and yea im sure he appealed to some vile people too.

but it's not some brilliant, strategic, underdog success story.

Best American president of this century, maybe he can even end up there with the very best of the past. Can't wait to enjoy leftist tears when he steamrolls for his second term.

Will just comment on this point:
*Terrible social media user*

*Wins Presidency* * Destroys mainstream media against him* *Wins Second Term*

On May 11 2018 20:17 qwe5408 wrote: Show nested quote + On May 11 2018 08:05 RiKD wrote:   On May 11 2018 07:25 NewbSaibot wrote: My only issue with him is that he didnt deserve the win, it was simply handed to him as a "fuck you" to everyone by a loudmouthed minority Oh, he deserved the win alright. He ran an incredible campaign. you're giving this guy way too much credit. he is a fad diet or a popular self help book. he appealed to people who desperately wanted to believe in change or people who were too exhausted from all the campaigning to make a well conceived decision. and yea im sure he appealed to some vile people too. but it's not some brilliant, strategic, underdog success story.

America LOVES fad diets and popular self help books.

A brilliant, strategic, underdog success story is exactly what it is.

It also shows the sad shape our culture is in. It makes me want to vomit. It reminds me of the movie Idiocracy.

On May 11 2018 04:43 NMcNasty wrote: add * racist * compulsive liar * corrupt * inexperienced Nothing on the list so far has anything to do with political stances. Trump becomes even worse if you start to care about healthcare, the environment, the debt, not starting WW3, etc.. But no, Americans aren’t “suffering” under Trump currently, but that’s due to several factors: The economy was doing really well when he took office, 8 years of solid recovery from the financial crisis under Obama. Tax cuts and gutting environmental regulations are good for the economy short term. The price might not be felt till decades later. Trump failed to repeal Obamacare. You don’t have the inevitable sickness/deaths that would have occurred otherwise. Democrats managed to negotiate to maintain funding for other social programs, in exchange for agreeing to increase military spending. So Americans don’t “suffer” from the loss of these programs, but again, the cost is a significant debt increase. So yeah most Americans can’t at all feel the effects of Trump and politics is just theater. As long as he sticks it to the libs on Twitter and is funny he’ll hold to his ~40% approval rating, which is historically low, but still disturbingly high given how obvious of a shitstain he is.

This is pretty much all true.

Unfortunatly, i think a lot of americans will think the same as my grandma used to think "well, i'm happy under this president, let's keep voting him".

On May 11 2018 16:53 NMcNasty wrote: Your own chart shows wages increasing, so that's hardly an argument for "suffering". Inequality is a different issue. You also aren't using any basis for comparison, its certainly not past America or other industrialized nations. American recovery has been much stronger than the European version precisely because of the stimulus package (not exactly sure why you're bringing that up here?). But I'm generally with you (and Bernie and Piketty) that there are systemic problems with capitalism, just not the point where its worth throwing away votes for. I suspect many Bernie supporters were left disgruntled from the primaries (somewhat reasonably) and didn't vote. They weren't old enough to have learned the lesson from Nader in 2000.

ok, perhaps this chart is the one i should have shown since it shows the era before neoliberalism:



wages stagnant. It's happened in all countries that have undergone the more extreme neoliberal reform. New Zealand is the same in that wages have stagnated since the 1980's. Yes, the stimulus package was better than none, it just wasn't big enough, that's krugman's point. I brang it up because Obama ignored the advice of economists like Krugman and that's why the economy looks like it did before the recession, that's not a good thing. I think my standards are very reasonable, given the rise in productivity; poverty, hunger, and extreme inequality shouldn't exist.

That graph isn't actually that bad, having steady income to inflation is ok, and you blame neoliberal economy yet the government is the one burning trillions in military and debt payments, its the failure of the government not the economic model (unless you consider the control of the budget as part of neoliberal economy, if so, then I agree with you)

I agree with Stroggoz that these criticism about racism, bigot, pussy grabber and stuff like that are for idiots (true or not), pollicy is what matters, who gives a shit if he fucks pornstars ffs.

I also agree with Loco that its clear now that Trump wasnt the anti-establishment guy he advertized to be, and I believe it was greatly to the masive battering he got recently elected, he probably felt he had to compromise and submit or he would lose the presidency fast.

Anybody has seen Homeland's last season? they draw a parallel with Trump in a pretty interesting non-partisan way.

I watched homeland last season because I'm already balls deep invested in that show. Sometimes I just facepalm whenever she fucks up her life again and people trust her AGAIn. lmao

Trump is part of the American culture that needs to die. Born into the American dream everything about him is gaudy. It's like he's conned all these suckers that his semen tastes good and they swallow it up.