Playing the whale

we peeled the flop with no draw? dafuq. o_0

lol yeah I peeled with a backdoor draw because of those implied odds. After I folded this turn I racked up and quit because I felt I was probably playing pretty suboptimal at this point, especially if she wont pay me off because I'm the new guy in her eyes. So like, there is absolutely no excuse to chase backdoor draws out of position regardless of stack depth and player fishiness?

My goal if I hit had there only been 2 diamonds would be to c/r allin on river. With 3 diamonds I think I'd just lead the river for like $400 if I hit and hope she makes a crying call.

flop is terrible. youre likely playing worse than her

don't ever be afraid your image is too good, you are overthinking way too much.

On June 19 2016 18:20 NewbSaibot wrote: Finally got to sit with an elusive whale I hear everyone talking about

On June 20 2016 04:41 NewbSaibot wrote: I racked up and quit

On June 20 2016 16:06 casinocasino wrote: Show nested quote + On June 19 2016 18:20 NewbSaibot wrote: Finally got to sit with an elusive whale I hear everyone talking about   On June 20 2016 04:41 NewbSaibot wrote: I racked up and quit

I played with her for 5 hours. The whole table was aghast when she folded Q6o on a 66KJ2 board after she bet all 3 streets, since thats just nothing they have ever seen her do in their lives. That itself was more tilting than if I had lost the hand. She then folds TT face up on a Q8379 runout to me. There were 2 other big hands I cant remember the details of where she once again made ridiculous folds against me considering how she had been playing. Meanwhile she's calling my neighbors with 3rd pair on the river repeatedly. I'm pretty sure I even saw her call a river bet with nothing at all, like 7 high just to see what they had. She asked for my name and at one point seemed a little annoyed with me after I raised, making a comment like "oh, you again". Since it was obvious at that point she just didnt want to lose to me specifically I figured I might as well leave, especially if I'm running out of steam, starving for breakfast, probably impacting my blood sugar levels in the brain, and chasing backdoor draws to try and stack her.

On June 20 2016 07:52 PoorUser wrote: flop is terrible. youre likely playing worse than her

this. why not just raise if ur deadset on continuing vs her and she gives no action? not that i like that either but peeling to hit a backdoor. hitting it and then folding. dafuq. o.0

Also in these spots just try to start isoing her for value contstantly. She will get mad and decide she hates u.If she limps Im making it whatever sizing is somewhat likely to get her HU. IE 3 limpers Make it 45 with Q8s assuming 2/5 blinds LP. Limping behind her with suited gappers 47s OTB and cuttoff. K7s types Id prob limp behind with small pockets too actually. She opens any decent amount im 3betting her with KTo to whatever sizing i can get value. then get dealt T9s the next hand and do it again. She starts getting more spazzy and sticky against me? Good. She will snap. She will hate me. She is going to feel me @_@ and she will have to know she has to leave the table or engage with me.

FWIW i gave u the more straightforward examples. I get much sillier nowadays vs whales. especially deep. Honestly id just 3bet her anytime she opened 2k deep with anything playable. I prob wouldn't have much of a flatting range at all. We are going to war. All hes going to be thinking about at the table is me. ._. If a whale doesnt hate u... If you are to their direct left or 2nd over. And they don't feel they are in a steel cage match with you. You're doing it wrong. especially deep. That said I know that for online players and a decent amount of live players theres the potential inexperience playing deep in spazzy situations. So I get that people would be reluctant to go too ham. But if im IP. and they enter the pot im putting the next raise in and isolating them even in spots like LP and i have Q5s. Im gonna play Q5s better than shes going to play Q9o OOP 2k deep. lets do this. Though disclaimer. OOP I would play very normal probably. Not go too silly with 3betting or isoing at all.

Thanks for the help. I was 2nd to her left. To her immediate left was a huge crusher I have tremendous respect for and this was precisely what he was doing. It wasnt really working out too well for him so I kinda felt he was actually just playing frustrated, but now that you mention it he was just using a proper approach to her until it finally worked out. Speaking of which, what do we do about him if he's attacking her?

On June 21 2016 00:12 NewbSaibot wrote: Thanks for the help. I was 2nd to her left. To her immediate left was a huge crusher I have tremendous respect for and this was precisely what he was doing. It wasnt really working out too well for him so I kinda felt he was actually just playing frustrated, but now that you mention it he was just using a proper approach to her until it finally worked out. Speaking of which, what do we do about him if he's attacking her?

Oh. Fuck. Thats actually a huge problem if hes inbetween the 2 of you. Honestly its kind of like finders keepers if he keeps isoing her. Our only option is to decide to overcall our whole range to keep her in (if shes truely a huge whale maybe 3bet purely some small bluffrange against him and some strong hands if theres a dynamic setup eventually) or really just decide to shut him down. Which becomes an issue where until (or IF) he shuts down we're not in a great situation for making money. If hes smart as u 3bet him 4-6 times an hour hes going to play somewhat according to the situation vs you and just take it until you fizzle out. Meanwhile its a small price to pay to play HU with the whale. So honestly this is actually a pain in the ass. Being the guy isoing/opening the pots is a huge benefit to donk crusher live poker. People are either forced to get on the train ur conducting or battle you. Either way its somewhat profitable for them whatever they choose but you're going to be keeping them from maintaining any epic winrates when you're the conductor of the whale train.

EDIT: One person that is amazing in these spots is Garret Adelstein. Hes a buddy of mine for a while now and he made some videos on run it once about these spots. Ive logged maybe aorund 100-150 hours with him and hes a fucking terror to have in ur live game deep. He is not there to print money. hes wants to engage in mortal kombat. seriously he will fight everyone at the table just to lower their opening frequencies so the pots can get folded to him so he can have more opportunities to open. He made a few videos on runitonce a few years ago. And honestly i think they are gold. He is in my estimation probably top 10 live players in the world. I honestly could not say enough good things about his game. So check them out. One point i wanted to bring up though is he speaks of the idea of when you are on the left of a fish playing 80vpip. Take a second and think. If i was in a HU match with someone playing 80VPIP OOP(Every single hand) against me. What would my ranges look like? Obviously that doesnt mean u necessarily play 100% VPIP. But 25-40+% or even more could be defensible especially 400-2000 bigblinds deep.

Re end of post 12: crush him. Most people who shit on fish still do it weak tightly. Unless he's a monster or a super duper spazz prob just play sorta tight and 4b him or cold call 3bs and then raise his flop c bets some.

Also level up your live social game. If you can't spazz at her bc of table (or the guy trying to crush her) at least be good enough socially to make her want to punt off to you while you're nitting.

yeah the reg made some real questionable plays. We know each other by name and have spoken with him dozens of times at the table and I know he's solid, usually sitting 300-400BB deep every time I see him, but here are a couple of mistakes he made:

Whale threw in a greenchip wanting to raise but counted as a call. Reg raises her to $25 which I immediately thought was puzzling since she hardly ever raises. Ok guess he has AA/KK. Gets around to her and she makes it $75 and he folds. Claims he had AQo, dafuq?

Then, during the hand I posted where I was chasing backdoor straight/flush, he tells me after the hand he folded 25 for a fucking wheel. He even bemoans the fact that it was a wheel, I didnt say anything but I mean, DAFUQ?! He was convinced she had a flush, which was the least of my concerns.

Maybe he suffers from "monsters under the bed syndrome" or something, I dunno just really out of character for him. He was constantly making it $35 every time she limped towards late position. I flatted with KQo and stuff precisely to keep her in since I know his range is really wide here. He seemed to be playing pretty fit/fold postflop checking back lots of flops etc, I'm guessing because he just couldnt hit anything at all and knows she wont go away. Meh. Maybe I should reassess my opinion.

On June 21 2016 06:01 NewbSaibot wrote: He was constantly making it $35 every time she limped towards late position. I flatted with KQo and stuff precisely to keep her in since I know his range is really wide here. He seemed to be playing pretty fit/fold postflop checking back lots of flops etc, I'm guessing because he just couldnt hit anything at all and knows she wont go away. Meh. Maybe I should reassess my opinion.

Something that's maybe -ev short-run, but keeps me playing properly in spots like this (good reg has the jesus seat and I'm after them) is to make their life difficult. The whale is your treat. She is not his. If he tries to iso the whale, you 3b him with loads of hands, KQ is a good example. Punish him for trying to take what's yours. Because whales tend to not play super long this will agitate all of the regs and they will think you suck for trying to play high variance spots vs regs with a whale in the game, but fuck them they're wrong.

It's funny how much this seems like prison bitch dynamics.

It's interesting, I actually really did want to play back at him because despite how he has the God seat vs the whale he cant exactly be thrilled with me behind him fucking his shit up trying to do the same thing. At the time I figured it would be best to kinda of ignore him and just target her by leveraging his loose exploitation of her for me. Basically if I'm going to iso her with K7s and I know he's doing the same, I can just tag along and hopefully dont get too wrapped up in a mess if we both go to town on her. Next time I will treat him as an obstacle to my dessert and do whatever I can to make his life miserable so I can have her to myself.

the fuck is this... fold flop.

Also next time play draws aggressively, raise with the gutshot etc and show it, its not hard to make a fish pay you off.

LOL.

the cool thing about exploitative play is that you can justify many weird plays in all kinds of situations...the fall back is hands like this is where you're trying to justify obviously terrible play with exploitative thoughts. you're on the right track..just don't take it too far. and stay solid

doomer can tell you all about it actually.

to defeat the whale. you must first become the whale.

running quite well with several showdowns so your afraid that your image is too good? Lol.. http://expresstag.no/Poker is life