https://www.liquidpoker.net/


LP international Poland latinoamerica Iceland    Contact            Users: 114 Active, 13 Logged in - Time: 05:12

Playing the whale

New to LiquidPoker? Register here for free!
Forum Index > Low Stakes Poker
 1 
  2 
  > 
  Last 
  All 
NewbSaibot   United States. Jun 19 2016 19:20. Posts 4771

Finally got to sit with an elusive whale I hear everyone talking about, bets $1000 a hand at blackjack, classic loose passive fish. She's been folding face up every time so her range is literally any 2 cards, even postflop, floating with J2o with no redraw to anything etc. She inexplicably folds trips face up to me after betting $200 and I raise to $800 on the river. She also makes several other tilting folds with strong underpairs and so forth when I value bet 1/2 pot. I have a feeling she just doesnt like paying off strangers until she gets to know you. I have been running quite well with several showdowns so I'm afraid my image is too good.

2/5 NLHE

Whale ($2000) raises BTN $20
SB ($1500) calls
Hero BB ($2000) 56cc calls

Flop $60
Ac 9d 3d

SB checks
Hero checks
Whale bets $60
SB calls
Hero calls

Turn $240
Ac 9d 3d 4d

SB checks
Hero checks
Whale bets $175
SB folds
Hero ???


So you know, the question here is how thin to you draw vs whales when your image is super hot and they are making hero folds to you and only you. Everyone else got tons of action from her except me, which begs the question if she's finally ready to dump do I need to continue with hands like this?

Facebook Twitter
listening to edzwoo has made u a nit... *sigh* - Zalfor 

PoorUser    United States. Jun 19 2016 21:50. Posts 7342

You have clubs? Is this a troll post?

Moneys gotta go in here 

JohnnyBologna   United States. Jun 19 2016 23:56. Posts 1393

only you gotta do is wait for a hand. value more thin with top pair.

By doing a little bit at a time, a lot can be done 

DooMeR   United States. Jun 20 2016 00:07. Posts 8460

we peeled the flop with no draw? dafuq. o_0

I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance, by running away from the scene of an accident. 

NewbSaibot   United States. Jun 20 2016 05:41. Posts 4771

lol yeah I peeled with a backdoor draw because of those implied odds. After I folded this turn I racked up and quit because I felt I was probably playing pretty suboptimal at this point, especially if she wont pay me off because I'm the new guy in her eyes. So like, there is absolutely no excuse to chase backdoor draws out of position regardless of stack depth and player fishiness?

My goal if I hit had there only been 2 diamonds would be to c/r allin on river. With 3 diamonds I think I'd just lead the river for like $400 if I hit and hope she makes a crying call.

listening to edzwoo has made u a nit... *sigh* - ZalforLast edit: 20/06/2016 05:43

PoorUser    United States. Jun 20 2016 08:52. Posts 7342

flop is terrible. youre likely playing worse than her

Moneys gotta go in here 

Ryan Neilly   United States. Jun 20 2016 11:04. Posts 1160

don't ever be afraid your image is too good, you are overthinking way too much.


casinocasino   Canada. Jun 20 2016 17:06. Posts 3273


  On June 19 2016 18:20 NewbSaibot wrote:
Finally got to sit with an elusive whale I hear everyone talking about




  On June 20 2016 04:41 NewbSaibot wrote: I racked up and quit





NewbSaibot   United States. Jun 20 2016 18:26. Posts 4771


  On June 20 2016 16:06 casinocasino wrote:
Show nested quote +




  On June 20 2016 04:41 NewbSaibot wrote: I racked up and quit







I played with her for 5 hours. The whole table was aghast when she folded Q6o on a 66KJ2 board after she bet all 3 streets, since thats just nothing they have ever seen her do in their lives. That itself was more tilting than if I had lost the hand. She then folds TT face up on a Q8379 runout to me. There were 2 other big hands I cant remember the details of where she once again made ridiculous folds against me considering how she had been playing. Meanwhile she's calling my neighbors with 3rd pair on the river repeatedly. I'm pretty sure I even saw her call a river bet with nothing at all, like 7 high just to see what they had. She asked for my name and at one point seemed a little annoyed with me after I raised, making a comment like "oh, you again". Since it was obvious at that point she just didnt want to lose to me specifically I figured I might as well leave, especially if I'm running out of steam, starving for breakfast, probably impacting my blood sugar levels in the brain, and chasing backdoor draws to try and stack her.

listening to edzwoo has made u a nit... *sigh* - ZalforLast edit: 20/06/2016 18:27

DooMeR   United States. Jun 20 2016 22:30. Posts 8460


  On June 20 2016 07:52 PoorUser wrote:
flop is terrible. youre likely playing worse than her


this. why not just raise if ur deadset on continuing vs her and she gives no action? not that i like that either but peeling to hit a backdoor. hitting it and then folding. dafuq. o.0

Also in these spots just try to start isoing her for value contstantly. She will get mad and decide she hates u.If she limps Im making it whatever sizing is somewhat likely to get her HU. IE 3 limpers Make it 45 with Q8s assuming 2/5 blinds LP. Limping behind her with suited gappers 47s OTB and cuttoff. K7s types Id prob limp behind with small pockets too actually. She opens any decent amount im 3betting her with KTo to whatever sizing i can get value. then get dealt T9s the next hand and do it again. She starts getting more spazzy and sticky against me? Good. She will snap. She will hate me. She is going to feel me @_@ and she will have to know she has to leave the table or engage with me.

I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance, by running away from the scene of an accident.Last edit: 20/06/2016 22:40

DooMeR   United States. Jun 20 2016 22:50. Posts 8460

FWIW i gave u the more straightforward examples. I get much sillier nowadays vs whales. especially deep. Honestly id just 3bet her anytime she opened 2k deep with anything playable. I prob wouldn't have much of a flatting range at all. We are going to war. All hes going to be thinking about at the table is me. ._. If a whale doesnt hate u... If you are to their direct left or 2nd over. And they don't feel they are in a steel cage match with you. You're doing it wrong. especially deep. That said I know that for online players and a decent amount of live players theres the potential inexperience playing deep in spazzy situations. So I get that people would be reluctant to go too ham. But if im IP. and they enter the pot im putting the next raise in and isolating them even in spots like LP and i have Q5s. Im gonna play Q5s better than shes going to play Q9o OOP 2k deep. lets do this. Though disclaimer. OOP I would play very normal probably. Not go too silly with 3betting or isoing at all.

I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance, by running away from the scene of an accident. 

NewbSaibot   United States. Jun 21 2016 01:12. Posts 4771

Thanks for the help. I was 2nd to her left. To her immediate left was a huge crusher I have tremendous respect for and this was precisely what he was doing. It wasnt really working out too well for him so I kinda felt he was actually just playing frustrated, but now that you mention it he was just using a proper approach to her until it finally worked out. Speaking of which, what do we do about him if he's attacking her?

listening to edzwoo has made u a nit... *sigh* - ZalforLast edit: 21/06/2016 01:38

DooMeR   United States. Jun 21 2016 02:14. Posts 8460


  On June 21 2016 00:12 NewbSaibot wrote:
Thanks for the help. I was 2nd to her left. To her immediate left was a huge crusher I have tremendous respect for and this was precisely what he was doing. It wasnt really working out too well for him so I kinda felt he was actually just playing frustrated, but now that you mention it he was just using a proper approach to her until it finally worked out. Speaking of which, what do we do about him if he's attacking her?



Oh. Fuck. Thats actually a huge problem if hes inbetween the 2 of you. Honestly its kind of like finders keepers if he keeps isoing her. Our only option is to decide to overcall our whole range to keep her in (if shes truely a huge whale maybe 3bet purely some small bluffrange against him and some strong hands if theres a dynamic setup eventually) or really just decide to shut him down. Which becomes an issue where until (or IF) he shuts down we're not in a great situation for making money. If hes smart as u 3bet him 4-6 times an hour hes going to play somewhat according to the situation vs you and just take it until you fizzle out. Meanwhile its a small price to pay to play HU with the whale. So honestly this is actually a pain in the ass. Being the guy isoing/opening the pots is a huge benefit to donk crusher live poker. People are either forced to get on the train ur conducting or battle you. Either way its somewhat profitable for them whatever they choose but you're going to be keeping them from maintaining any epic winrates when you're the conductor of the whale train.

EDIT: One person that is amazing in these spots is Garret Adelstein. Hes a buddy of mine for a while now and he made some videos on run it once about these spots. Ive logged maybe aorund 100-150 hours with him and hes a fucking terror to have in ur live game deep. He is not there to print money. hes wants to engage in mortal kombat. seriously he will fight everyone at the table just to lower their opening frequencies so the pots can get folded to him so he can have more opportunities to open. He made a few videos on runitonce a few years ago. And honestly i think they are gold. He is in my estimation probably top 10 live players in the world. I honestly could not say enough good things about his game. So check them out. One point i wanted to bring up though is he speaks of the idea of when you are on the left of a fish playing 80vpip. Take a second and think. If i was in a HU match with someone playing 80VPIP OOP(Every single hand) against me. What would my ranges look like? Obviously that doesnt mean u necessarily play 100% VPIP. But 25-40+% or even more could be defensible especially 400-2000 bigblinds deep.

I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance, by running away from the scene of an accident.Last edit: 21/06/2016 02:22

PoorUser    United States. Jun 21 2016 02:22. Posts 7342

Re end of post 12: crush him. Most people who shit on fish still do it weak tightly. Unless he's a monster or a super duper spazz prob just play sorta tight and 4b him or cold call 3bs and then raise his flop c bets some.

Also level up your live social game. If you can't spazz at her bc of table (or the guy trying to crush her) at least be good enough socially to make her want to punt off to you while you're nitting.

Moneys gotta go in hereLast edit: 21/06/2016 02:27

NewbSaibot   United States. Jun 21 2016 07:01. Posts 4771

yeah the reg made some real questionable plays. We know each other by name and have spoken with him dozens of times at the table and I know he's solid, usually sitting 300-400BB deep every time I see him, but here are a couple of mistakes he made:

Whale threw in a greenchip wanting to raise but counted as a call. Reg raises her to $25 which I immediately thought was puzzling since she hardly ever raises. Ok guess he has AA/KK. Gets around to her and she makes it $75 and he folds. Claims he had AQo, dafuq?

Then, during the hand I posted where I was chasing backdoor straight/flush, he tells me after the hand he folded 25 for a fucking wheel. He even bemoans the fact that it was a wheel, I didnt say anything but I mean, DAFUQ?! He was convinced she had a flush, which was the least of my concerns.

Maybe he suffers from "monsters under the bed syndrome" or something, I dunno just really out of character for him. He was constantly making it $35 every time she limped towards late position. I flatted with KQo and stuff precisely to keep her in since I know his range is really wide here. He seemed to be playing pretty fit/fold postflop checking back lots of flops etc, I'm guessing because he just couldnt hit anything at all and knows she wont go away. Meh. Maybe I should reassess my opinion.

listening to edzwoo has made u a nit... *sigh* - Zalfor 

thewh00sel    United States. Jun 21 2016 07:58. Posts 2718


  On June 21 2016 06:01 NewbSaibot wrote:
He was constantly making it $35 every time she limped towards late position. I flatted with KQo and stuff precisely to keep her in since I know his range is really wide here. He seemed to be playing pretty fit/fold postflop checking back lots of flops etc, I'm guessing because he just couldnt hit anything at all and knows she wont go away. Meh. Maybe I should reassess my opinion.


Something that's maybe -ev short-run, but keeps me playing properly in spots like this (good reg has the jesus seat and I'm after them) is to make their life difficult. The whale is your treat. She is not his. If he tries to iso the whale, you 3b him with loads of hands, KQ is a good example. Punish him for trying to take what's yours. Because whales tend to not play super long this will agitate all of the regs and they will think you suck for trying to play high variance spots vs regs with a whale in the game, but fuck them they're wrong.

A government is the most dangerous threat to man’s rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims. - Ayn Rand 

DooMeR   United States. Jun 21 2016 08:11. Posts 8460

It's funny how much this seems like prison bitch dynamics.

I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance, by running away from the scene of an accident. 

NewbSaibot   United States. Jun 21 2016 23:50. Posts 4771

It's interesting, I actually really did want to play back at him because despite how he has the God seat vs the whale he cant exactly be thrilled with me behind him fucking his shit up trying to do the same thing. At the time I figured it would be best to kinda of ignore him and just target her by leveraging his loose exploitation of her for me. Basically if I'm going to iso her with K7s and I know he's doing the same, I can just tag along and hopefully dont get too wrapped up in a mess if we both go to town on her. Next time I will treat him as an obstacle to my dessert and do whatever I can to make his life miserable so I can have her to myself.

listening to edzwoo has made u a nit... *sigh* - Zalfor 

Baalim   Mexico. Jun 28 2016 06:50. Posts 31469

the fuck is this... fold flop.

Also next time play draws aggressively, raise with the gutshot etc and show it, its not hard to make a fish pay you off.

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online 

YoMeR   United States. Jul 20 2016 04:33. Posts 12344

LOL.

the cool thing about exploitative play is that you can justify many weird plays in all kinds of situations...the fall back is hands like this is where you're trying to justify obviously terrible play with exploitative thoughts. you're on the right track..just don't take it too far. and stay solid

eZ Life. 

 
 1 
  2 
  > 
  Last 
  All 





Poker Streams


















Copyright © 2017. LiquidPoker.net All Rights Reserved
Contact Advertise Sitemap