Vote No Supernova+? Rake Theory - Page 3

On November 05 2014 01:16 Baalim wrote:Its not a good way to start this teletubbie community thing by blatant lies

Please understand. Firstly I am affiliated with absolutely nothing, and speak always on behalf of the interest of the players. Nxt is 10% poker and 90% developers. It is part of a very very big project, yet nxtpoker is a small subsection. I want you to understand what it is:

bitcoin is to the financial system as nxtpoker is to poker sites.

It is a decentralized autonomous "organization" in which the players can vote on the overall "economic" decisions for the game. It is a legislature, which further functions to seperate powers in a crucial way. But what they are now is just some developers putting together a programming project, soon it with "birth" a community that has more freedom but at the same time more power to do enact the most ideal decisions for the economy of the game. It's strange and if it's new to you and others its important you do A LOT of reading and research before you start to argue against the idea because bitcoin is 5 years old and its NOT going away, and neither is the concept of the complete decentralization of poker.

What if we think of bitfrog (a decentralized gaming platform possibly in development), as the platform and something like nxtpoker as the missing bridge for the community to have enough system and organization to create and sustain their own games. What I am saying is in the very near future we are looking at a system that is self-sustaining because the initial programming parameters and other algorithms have been optimized and solved. With currency we used to generally have 1 national fiat for each country, but with crypto we now think in terms of X currency.

I simply point out the concept of X poker. In light of all this and a deeper conversation on the truth about the economy of the game, I wonder if you truly do have something to offer on this subject, because it seems to me most people are not at all paying attention. Fewer seem to have taken the time to truly consider it. We are talking about the entire machine, do we not see this?

maybe people should just suck less

I agree having a bitcoin poker room would be the ultimate solution. Bitcoin is definitely more mainstream now and having a poker room with it's own currency and even advertisers can work.
The current poker online model is just not sustainable anymore because it's beholden to banks and legal bullshit which comprise majority of the costs. Coins already have a large audience and might eventually be more mainstream than most think.

Btw I hate alt coins but looking at the Online Poker situation I definitely believe it's going to the shitter in the next 3 years

On November 05 2014 18:05 K40Cheddar wrote: maybe people should just suck less

This is the wrong attitude to have, even if it's a sarcastic one. Everyone should care about the health of the games and be concerned about the rake. Pokerstars is first and foremost a business. Forming a union is a good way to apply pressure through wallets that vote together and play where they are listened to.

Either way - although his presentation of his ideas is a bit eclectic and difficult to follow, he makes a good point that we aren't that far from a decentralized online poker site that runs on bit-coin and where the software is open source. Securing it from potential hackers and such is one thing, but usually open-source can do that better because you have so many people to spot problems. If the builders don't care about making a profit and just care about bringing rake-free poker to the masses... that's pretty cool. And everyone would certainly play there.

So imagine - rake free poker + bitcoin stabilized + no big company taking everyones profits for themselves. That is something that could easily grow by word of mouth. I've never really envisioned zero-sum poker existing, but... when you think about it that's a platform that could be pretty easily built. We have a choice.

You see its WAY simpler than that my friend. Imagine 20 years ago I wanted to show you email, but you didn't really understand, so I created and email and sent it to you and showed you how to reply. Would you immediately understand the use? Probably not, yet the introduction to such a technology is life changing...game changing for almost anybody, any group, any organization, any business.

There is a new "technology" a new "email". In order to spread it we create a "coupon", and collectively adopt its use for certain useful functions, such as staking groups, coaching sites, rakeback, site bankrolls, etc. You create say 1 million of these "coupons", each person gets a wallet and you start passing them out. It simultaneously teaches plays what "public keys" and "private keys" are.

Its a multi layer solution that solves many problems and brings coherence to the community in a way we never knew how to achieve. In order to start you just need a group of well known, well trusted pros. It is not a panzi or pyramid scheme as nobody is putting in a bunch of money, its just adopting a coupon or a token system that helps spread the word of the revolution:

http://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com...28/cliffs-asymptotically-ideal-poker/

Because its trade-able on an exchange it does gain value though, incentivizing adoption and use. But the key is that it rides on TOP of the bitcoin infrastructure, so it doesn't needs millions and millions of dollars in capital to get started, its essentially costs-less to create and adopt so it will start to accrue value as soon as the community begins to spread it based simply on the cohesion it brings.

Here is an outline for all the information I gathered for a players union: http://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2014/11/06/stike-committe-a-players-union/
The key element to implement an effective players Union is a new technology outlined here http://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2014/11/06/nas-coin/

The 2 keys technological advances that make this solution newly available the players need to implement are: 1) The monetary supply of the coin can never be changed for the duration of its use 2) The coin is tradable on a digital free market exchange such as: counterparty What is needed then is a few trusted, trust-able, and prominent industry professionals and leaders to step forward to implement and speak out to the players about the adoption of such a coin. Then this digital asset can be created and locked in as a coin on an exchange as quick as setting up an email, and the “coins” can be transferred as quick as sending one.

Some notes about the revolution http://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com...mber-rememeber-the-5th-of-novemember/
Some interesting results and useful notes/links from the day of http://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com...oly-and-regulatory-controls-hu4rollz/

#idealpoker

ffs, not meaning to add these posts

Here the players manifesto is posted and links to the creation of our union http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/...oker-not-over-just-beginning-1487504/

You seem to have just high-jacked this thread with near unintelligible posts and a link to a very poorly written blog as well as dead links on 2p2. Although at this point I actually think this thread has served it's purpose.

I'm going to make a website for Pokerstars players. A union. Simple enough, I'll run it for free + donations. Won't take more than is needed + whatever $20-30/hr for any time put in. Shouldn't amount to much $$$. Everything else will be used to lobby for lower rake as well as better and healthier games. The agenda or plan or whatever can be voted on once there is enough membership.

Other than that, I think I'd like to lobby for something like Seals With Clubs to get even better. Although honestly 2.5% rake (effectively half what we pay now) + 50% RB that seems fairly easy to attend is already a good model. So maybe just building on that and becoming a powerful affiliate for them would be a step in the right direction.

It seems to me the only thing standing in the way of a second poker boom is that Bitcoin needs to become stable enough in value for the market to have confidence. After that, a rake free poker site or minimal rake site is actually fairly easy to build and maintain. It would be fantastic if someone like Facebook would come into the real-money market using bitcoin. The real difficulty is simply acquiring enough of the currency itself (it can be difficult for non-technical people to understand it's use) and then the stability of it. We're probably 5-10 years away honestly, but the second boom will come.

If Bitcoin becomes really mainstream, and by that I mean even some of my friends actually ask or talk about it, then it will definitely get recreational players/ bitcoin curious people to deposit. At present the best way to teach pokerstars a lesson is to stop playing there completely - nothing less.
Everywhere I read to vote with your wallet but they still fire up pokerstars each day the wake up lol

On November 09 2014 21:34 whamm! wrote: If Bitcoin becomes really mainstream, and by that I mean even some of my friends actually ask or talk about it, then it will definitely get recreational players/ bitcoin curious people to deposit. At present the best way to teach pokerstars a lesson is to stop playing there completely - nothing less. Everywhere I read to vote with your wallet but they still fire up pokerstars each day the wake up lol

you are exactly correct, and that is only my premise, we call that premise "ideal poker". The solution to make that premise a reality is "asymptotically ideal poker". Players around the world are moving in solidarity to adopt a "poker coin", which is really just like a digital coupon with a finite supply. We are discussing a marketing plan to connect many like minded business entities (that are not a monopoly) that are interested in creating a NEW network. The value of this coin comes from its finite-ness and its exchangability on a decentralized market.

It is literally akin to paying people to sign up for email in 1990. Once players and businesses take the 2 seconds it takes to sign up for a wallet and receive some of the "poker coin" they are instantly introduced into this collective movement. Some of the benefits to this coin are:

SOME of their multiple functions are:

1) early adopters stand to gain most
2) players would have incentive to educate themselves on crypto currency
3) players would have incentive to cooperate
4) creates incentive to hold a unique account thus creating single unique identifiers
5) the network created with wallets and “keys” facilitates a proper functioning democracy
6) facilitate a players committee or a union (or Ppa)
7) helps prevent collusion and fraud within the community without relying on third parties.
8) helps raise communities to forum 2.0‘s

I have been PMing with benjamin1 asking if they are willing to learn about this further to continue to explore it and educate/discuss it with this forum community, as we are working to get on all forums to spread the movement.

Players interested in supporting the movement are asked to spread the phrase "ideal poker" and ask each other "what is ideal poker" in order to move in solidarity with it.