Ivey getting sued

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic...lawsuit-Gambler-cheated-won-9-6M.html

WTF

isnt this very old?

or is he getting accused/sued again?

On April 12 2014 11:54 longple wrote: isnt this very old? or is he getting accused/sued again?

Not thoroughly versed in it, but my understanding is that there are 2 new lawsuits on top of the old one filed by some UK casino all making the same claim + providing more insight. An AC casino and some unnamed casino owned by a Malaysian company both allege similar things to the UK casino.

Allegedly a certain card company had some kind of small defect on the back of the cards so if they were faced a certain way you would know it could only be a certain couple cards. No idea exactly what they're saying but apparently a "small circle representing a diamond" on the design on the back of the cards was only a half-diamond on certain cards. They're calling it "edge sorting" and note that Ivey requested a shuffling machine as opposed to hand shuffling (apparently so all the cards would be facing the same direction and not have random upside-down cards so he could read what card it is by the defect on the back).

It sort of sounds like the dealer may have been complicit but I dunno if they're trying to give that impression or not, it's not explicitly stated.

Dailymail really sucks at news.

Some old school tourney reg on 2p2 seems to think this is a real thing and is worried that it's been in play in live tournaments for awhile. Seems strange that there would be telling defects visible to the naked eye these days but if 3 casinos are all saying it happened it's definitely noteworthy.

Sued by a different casino in which he apparently used the same scheme.

http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-forum/1081518/Phil_Ivey_allegedly_cheated_to_win_%A37.8mln.html

cliffs:

Ivey duped the dealer into rotating cards with non-symmetrical backs when those cards were face up. He claimed it was superstition. So when the cards were face down he knew what was coming and was able to gain a huge edge.

Again my personal opinion is that since he never touched the cards and didn't use any type of cheating devices he didn't do anything illegal and should keep the money. Its the card manufacturer that should be sued.

ivey just cant stop :D
gambling for his life
hero

ya, he did this in the UK last year, USA this year, seems legit to me. Casino should be ashamed to make this public.

obv they take his $$ if they win.. its Ivey, he plays max limit on everything, they were watching from the eye in the sky.

On April 12 2014 12:55 GoldRush wrote: ya, he did this in the UK last year, USA this year, seems legit to me. Casino should be ashamed to make this public.

He's being sued now but he did it in 2012.

lmao @ multiple major casinos using decks susceptible to edge-sorting in games where they're taking nosebleed bets

jesus f christ lol what the fuck

if someone had described this technique to me and told me i could have a big edge over the casino using it, i would have just ignored it assuming there's no way casinos these days would make such a retarded oversight. lmfao

On April 12 2014 12:44 NMcNasty wrote: Its the card manufacturer that should be sued.

And apparently the manufacturer is being sued by Golden Nugget for other gamblers that got away with 1.5 million. Obviously it makes no sense for both manufacturers and the gamblers to pay. What is the casino actually going to make money here despite all their incompetence?

I wonder how both suits turn out really since it's the casino's fault for allowing this
in Britain Ivey is suing the casino and now he's getting sued tho

Sued for what ? They using defect cards ?

hes suing over the crockford 12m usd (~7.8 m euro) because they didn't pay a receipt they wrote him - old news but still news - heres the links from pokernews if you want to read

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2013/09...in-7-8-million-lawsuit-with-16301.htm

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2014/04...-for-9-6-million-by-borgata-18014.htm

Casinos fault obviously pay up bitches next time check your fucking cards

us casinos are angry that all the action is moving to macau hehe

On April 12 2014 12:44 NMcNasty wrote: cliffs: Ivey duped the dealer into rotating cards with non-symmetrical backs when those cards were face up. He claimed it was superstition. So when the cards were face down he knew what was coming and was able to gain a huge edge. Again my personal opinion is that since he never touched the cards and didn't use any type of cheating devices he didn't do anything illegal and should keep the money. Its the card manufacturer that should be sued.

it's like counting cards in blackjack no?
What's the legal stance on that?

On April 12 2014 13:13 bigredhoss wrote: if someone had described this technique to me and told me i could have a big edge over the casino using it, i would have just ignored it assuming there's no way casinos these days would make such a retarded oversight. lmfao

rofl, now that you post this i think i would too!



actually i would have prob thought in my head "effing live poker players"

On April 13 2014 11:52 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Show nested quote + On April 12 2014 12:44 NMcNasty wrote: cliffs: Ivey duped the dealer into rotating cards with non-symmetrical backs when those cards were face up. He claimed it was superstition. So when the cards were face down he knew what was coming and was able to gain a huge edge. Again my personal opinion is that since he never touched the cards and didn't use any type of cheating devices he didn't do anything illegal and should keep the money. Its the card manufacturer that should be sued. it's like counting cards in blackjack no? What's the legal stance on that?

it is legal but the casino has the right to kick you out and forbid you to come back
not sure if they can take away your winning when they kick you out though, I would assume not

Casinos thought process when Ivey goes there :
"FUCK YEAH he s one of the biggest high roller gamblers in the world and he loves to play games where we have edges"

Reality - no one has an edge over Ivey

haralabob volgaris tweeted that borgata claims that edge sorting gave Ivey a 6% edge, which is comparable to the house edge on the majority of the games provided inside the casino.

For the people that say its a gamblers fault and nobody is forcing them to gamble,
nobody forced the casino to accommodate ivey's stipulations/rules either.

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2014/04...s-lawsuit-against-phil-ivey-18040.htm

new news about the case, and the case in full (legal)

On April 16 2014 11:25 GoldRush wrote: http://www.pokernews.com/news/2014/04...s-lawsuit-against-phil-ivey-18040.htm new news about the case, and the case in full (legal)

For people who don't read the article or the 2p2 thread,

It appears the case the casinos are taking up is in the context of fraud. They're admitting the defect is their fault but that because Ivey explicitly told them that his instructions as to what cards to use and how to place them were said to be 'superstition' he engaged in fraud. They're arguing that by not telling the true reason behind his placing the cards that way it was fraudulently gained.

There's some lawyer guy on 2p2 who seems to think that the casino has a good case fwiw.

Ivey banned from all NA casinos and European casinos.

Macau4lyf

Realistically, is anyone surprised? You can't beat the casinos long term, that's why they're casinos. I personally have never bought a lotto ticket in my life, I call it stupid man tax, sucks though, I do love when people stick it to the 'man'.

I would still love to see the video of when Ivey (the team, or wtfever they were called) played the casino magnate at massive stakes at limit.

IVEY: "Hey guys I'd like to play some high stakes baccarat but I'd also like to use a specific deck and a specific shoe type. I also want a Mandarin speaking dealer. Also is it OK if I turn cards to certain positions? Cuz hey I'm superstitious, even though I'm well known as a proffessional gambler. Btw I'd prefer if we play for much higher stakes than normally allowed, is playing for millions of dollars OK?"

BORGATA: "sounds legit"

On April 17 2014 00:50 NMcNasty wrote: IVEY: "Hey guys I'd like to play some high stakes baccarat but I'd also like to use a specific deck and a specific shoe type. I also want a Mandarin speaking dealer. Also is it OK if I turn cards to certain positions? Cuz hey I'm superstitious, even though I'm well known as a proffessional gambler. Btw I'd prefer if we play for much higher stakes than normally allowed, is playing for millions of dollars OK?" BORGATA: "sounds legit"

This is exactly it. This is gambling business not granny's knitting. Entirely built around willing to gamble you money vs someone else on an agreed upon entity. Once you agree to the terms, that is it, lock down.

You do not sign a contract that says "I am going to lose 6% of my money tonight vs you via x means"

The casino should lose this case unless it is held in nevada...if in nevada, who knows where the donations flow

Hey guys, apparently Ivey is in trouble yet again ...





Ivey Being Sued: $20 Million Lawsuit


Ivey facing a squeeze

A large collective of online nosebleed grinders have pooled together to sue Phillip Dennis
Ivey Jr for his entire lifetime poker profits. While initially it was assumed that Phil was
just riding out a hotstreak on Full Tilt Poker, the players have recently discovered that
Ivey used illicit methods known as "hand reading" which gave him unfair information
that led to these illegitimate profits.

A spokesperson for the group outlined the dubious methods used by Ivey to win millions:
"Basically, we were assuming he was just gambling it up with us fellow degens, but the
reality was a lot more sinister. He would look at the actions we'd taken and then use this
information to get a pretty good idea of what cards we were holding."

According to the group, they recently discovered that while playing online, Ivey would
have a Chinese woman sitting next him at all times. They were not sure why exactly this
was the case but said that it was "questionable at best".

At the time, Ivey had told the players that his methods were merely superstition. "When
he'd make a winning play he'd say things like 'My magic 8 ball told me to fold' or 'the
local gypsy told me you were bluffing'. I believed him at first, but after a purchasing a
Magic 8 Ball, I discovered - through hours of vigorously shaking it - that 'Fold' was not
even one of the possible answers."

Ivey has since admitted to using "hand reading" to win millions unethically, along with
other common scamming methods like "bumhunting" and "tracking software" to further
increase his edge and kill the spirit of the game.

-metza on ps

lol pretty good

The only thing I took from that is that FTP should add 8 balls and gypsies to the list of prohibited tools.

haahaha

haha! first i was like "rly..?", then i laughed!

is that an onion article lol

On April 13 2014 16:08 GoTuNk wrote: Show nested quote + On April 13 2014 11:52 LemOn[5thF] wrote:   On April 12 2014 12:44 NMcNasty wrote: cliffs: Ivey duped the dealer into rotating cards with non-symmetrical backs when those cards were face up. He claimed it was superstition. So when the cards were face down he knew what was coming and was able to gain a huge edge. Again my personal opinion is that since he never touched the cards and didn't use any type of cheating devices he didn't do anything illegal and should keep the money. Its the card manufacturer that should be sued. it's like counting cards in blackjack no? What's the legal stance on that? it is legal but the casino has the right to kick you out and forbid you to come back not sure if they can take away your winning when they kick you out though, I would assume not

I never understood why it's okay for a casino to kick someone out for being good at blackjack.

On May 11 2014 15:52 Haunted wrote: Show nested quote + On April 13 2014 16:08 GoTuNk wrote:   On April 13 2014 11:52 LemOn[5thF] wrote:   On April 12 2014 12:44 NMcNasty wrote: cliffs: Ivey duped the dealer into rotating cards with non-symmetrical backs when those cards were face up. He claimed it was superstition. So when the cards were face down he knew what was coming and was able to gain a huge edge. Again my personal opinion is that since he never touched the cards and didn't use any type of cheating devices he didn't do anything illegal and should keep the money. Its the card manufacturer that should be sued. it's like counting cards in blackjack no? What's the legal stance on that? it is legal but the casino has the right to kick you out and forbid you to come back not sure if they can take away your winning when they kick you out though, I would assume not I never understood why it's okay for a casino to kick someone out for being good at blackjack.

Every business has the right to refuse service to any customer unless they have a monopoly then it gets a little more complicated.

how would a monopoly business change anything about refusing to service a customer

Because you have to factor in passing GO and collecting $200

On May 11 2014 20:20 mnj wrote: how would a monopoly business change anything about refusing to service a customer

The legalities of a state-run monopoly refusing essential services to certain demographics of the public (The ones who have trouble paying bills). Ie. Oil, Power, etc.

At least, I think that's what he's referring to. Could be wrong.

that's old news