Open Face Chinese

Think it'd be fun to have a thread for this since it seems to be one of the most popular games around the poker community.

(If you have an iPhone or iPad you can search in the app store for 'Open Face Chinese Poker' to download the app)

For those who don't know how to play, it's basically high-high-high Chinese poker where you get dealt 5 cards to start and each player takes turns placing the 5 cards in either top(3 cards)-middle(5 cards)-bottom(5 cards). Once the first 5 cards are set, players go around picking 1 card at a time and filling in the rest of their hand. At the end, the bottom has to be able to beat the middle, the middle has to be able to beat the top. If not, you 'fault' your hand and lose 6 points. If you lose top middle and bottom vs someone you get 'scooped' and also lose 6 points. There are added royalty points for making big enough hands in spots as well. Here is an overview of the point system:

Scoop: 6 points
Fault: 6 points

Bottom Hand Royalties:

Straight: 2 points
Flush: 4 points
Full House: 6 points
Quads: 8 points
Straight Flush: 10 points
Royal Flush: 20 points

Middle Hand Royalties:
Same as the Bottom hand except all worth double.

Top Hand Royalties:
Pair of 66's: 1 point
Pair of 77's: 2 points
Pair of 88's: 3 points
etc....
Pair of Queens: "Fantasy Land" or "Narnia" if you are playing that version of the game. Basically if you are able to set Q's on top and not fault your hand, the very next hand you get all 13 cards at once and get to set your hand like a regular chinese hand while getting paid these same royalty points.

The majority of the strategy will definitely be around the setting of your first 5 cards. The cards you pull after that should set themselves most of the time, with a harry spot here and there.

Interested to see your thoughts on setting these hands (let's just assume you are first to act):

Hand #1:

Hand #2:

Hand #3:

Hand #4:

Hand #5:


Feel free to add more hands for more discussion on the game.

Before Marshall28 chimes in that he won't post anything worth discussing because I didn't provide any strategy of my own to discuss, I'll give some basic things I've learned from the game so far:

Try building your hand from the bottom up. There is literally not a single set of 5 cards you can get where setting 2 on top is correct. When setting cards up top early, you put urself in a spot where you will be unable to pair those cards until you pair the middle. And if you pair the middle you will need to make an even better hand on bottom. It's asking a lot if you are making strong hands on top first then expecting to not fault your hand.

Be more willing to gamble on your first couple of draws, esp when going for royalties. Example: If your bottom is Ah-7h-5h, and you pull a 7s on your second draw, don't immediately give up on trying to make a flush. Remember when you pair there, you kill your chance at receiving any royalty points since your best hand on bottom is now 2 pair.

Straights are hard to make, esp if you are going for a gut-shot, and they royalty does not pay that much.

Just a few things to think about...

royalties are slightly different with how i play. If you scoop its 4 pts (therefore a bigger penalty for fouling), winning 2 out of 3 is 2 pts. Fouling is 6 pts + paying everyone their royalties if they didn't foul. Royalties are slightly different, quads 10 straight flush 15 royal 25. never played with the narnia rule but that is a nice twist.

No math here, just how i'd play it it under rules we play by since not fouling your hand is worth more.

hand 1: mid: AKc bot: 654h
hand 2: top: Q mid: AK bot: 22, then once u players set their hands after any card that u pick up that has 2-3 pair outs, u place at the bottom. If you pick up Jack-8 then place it at top, giving more royalty outs.
hand 3: top: 42 mid: 87 bot: J. Giving myself best chance for pair pair pair
hand 4: mid: Q bot: 7654
hand 5: top: A mid: QJs bot: K5h. Not necessarily going for flushes, dont mind having Ace high / queens or jacks / Kings. Think its a big mistake to play AKQJ at bot.

I'd set like this (assuming normal rules, not the fantasy land rules):

+ Show Spoiler +

Hand #1: (This is a gross one, if you pick up an ace or a king in the first couple draws without getting a heart yet, I'd put it in the middle and try to hang on for a flush assuming you see that your flush cards are mostly like. Back-up plan would be putting a early A or K up top. If you pick up an early 4-5-6 pair, I'd also throw it on top and hang on until at least the 4th draw.)
Top:
Mid:
Bot:

Hand #2: (If you pick up an early 2 or K, just throw it on top. Pair the bottom immediately if you are able to get it, otherwise look to throw T+ cards down there around the 4-5th draw to try and salvage the hand)
Top:
Mid:
Bot:

Hand #3: (This is a turd. Pray that you don't draw a J or 8 early. If you do, the decision to gamble depends largely on whats live around you.)
Top:
Mid:
Bot:

Hand #4: (Pretty straight forward hand, Insta pair the bottom if you get it early, otherwise your going for a flush. If you pull a 5 early and before u pair any of the other two spots, toss it in the middle.)
Top:
Mid:
Bot:

Hand #5: (Interesting one. especially if you pull the A or Q early. I'd go for it if there are live Jacks since that's a 6 point royalty. Pair bottom immediately otherwise go for flush etc...)
Top:
Mid:
Bot:

Going to ask some of my roommates and friends about how'd they set it

TJorTeeJay's set:

+ Show Spoiler +

Hand #1:
Top:
Mid:
Bot:

Hand #2:
Top:
Mid:
Bot:

Hand #3:
Top:
Mid:
Bot:

Hand #4:
Top:
Mid:
Bot:

Hand #5:
Top:
Mid:
Bot:

I like TJs hands 1-4.

Hand 5 is tricky. Going AKQJ on bottom doesn't seem all that bad to me but it's a common spot so if most people hate it it's probably bad. Im definitely OK with it 3 handed or HU.

On December 23 2012 13:53 NMcNasty wrote: I like TJs hands 1-4. Hand 5 is tricky. Going AKQJ on bottom doesn't seem all that bad to me but it's a common spot so if most people hate it it's probably bad. Im definitely OK with it 3 handed or HU.

This game sucks 4 handed. 3 handed or HU is waaaaay better. If we have 4 people we usually just have the dealer button sit out.

On December 22 2012 22:28 JonnyCosMo wrote: Before Marshall28 chimes in that he won't post anything worth discussing because I didn't provide any strategy of my own to discuss,

no idea why you think i'd be petty like that.

good idea to start this.

hand 2 i much prefer to go:

Q
K
22A

top hand royalties r really strong

obv it depends on if we r playing 2 handed or 3 handed tho ... if 3 handed then the types of hands i am drawing to are gonna be much different than 2 handed.

On December 23 2012 18:55 MARSHALL28 wrote: hand 2 i much prefer to go: Q K 22A top hand royalties r really strong

Why not>
K
A
22Q?

its a terrible draw if you are first to act. it's better the later you are to act given all Q's are still left in the deck.

never played this before but looks like i dont have very good intuition about the game

On December 23 2012 20:23 MARSHALL28 wrote: its a terrible draw if you are first to act. it's better the later you are to act given all Q's are still left in the deck.

And why is this different from any other card u put with the 2's?

I think its a huge mistake to put deuces in the middle in hand two. you're almost basically never being able to improve ur mid unless you run really good at improving ur bot early, not to mention having the insta small pair at bottom gives u better chances at making trips which will obv mean quads + full houses and gives u better shot at improving your top and mid hands.

only heard of this game bits before but from cosmos op looks like fun.

anyone know difference between free version and 7 dollar one? looks like can play with friends and randoms online with pay version is the difference

damn you, this game is awesome

will have to join in on some strat once get buncha hands in, gonna grind vs cpu

On December 25 2012 10:59 Joeingram1 wrote: damn you, this game is awesome will have to join in on some strat once get buncha hands in, gonna grind vs cpu

We can play on game center if you add me: Jonnycosmo

On December 25 2012 03:30 Raidan wrote: I think its a huge mistake to put deuces in the middle in hand two. you're almost basically never being able to improve ur mid unless you run really good at improving ur bot early, not to mention having the insta small pair at bottom gives u better chances at making trips which will obv mean quads + full houses and gives u better shot at improving your top and mid hands.

Yea in hindsight, that's probably the better set.

added on there, anyone else have gamer id?

My roommate: Gogators86

KQ775 to start with with a K or Q-7 same suit, spots with 2 overs, mid pair and undercard in general

Bottom- KQ
Mid-77
Top-5 ??


Does change if 5 if 3rd heart? Does change if K or Q and 5 are same suit?


Thinking is that it seems like safest option to do this and put any card above 7 on bottom till make a pair and than re-eval while trying to get lower pair on top some percent of the time

played a lot w/ friends last 2 days, game is so awesome

this hand came up playing HU today

me:




villain:




I draw

we got 4 outs to improve on front (three 9s for +4 royalty, 1 ace for +9), and 4 to improve middle (for epic +12 on middle)
however we lose the scoop if we put it at front. what do you guys think?

what if it were 3 or 4 handed btw?

results (not that it matters):
+ Show Spoiler +

On December 25 2012 15:36 Joeingram1 wrote: KQ775 to start with with a K or Q-7 same suit, spots with 2 overs, mid pair and undercard in general Bottom- KQ Mid-77 Top-5 ?? Does change if 5 if 3rd heart? Does change if K or Q and 5 are same suit? Thinking is that it seems like safest option to do this and put any card above 7 on bottom till make a pair and than re-eval while trying to get lower pair on top some percent of the time

agree, if 5 is 3rd heart and we are in position snap go for K75hhh if there arent many of your outs out there, oop you have to play it safer imo and go KQ-77-5, unless its HU I guess (I think you meant K 7 5 being suited?) 2nd question I didnt understand rly *oes change if K or Q and 5 are same suit?**

why can't i connect to game center game server?

On December 25 2012 21:58 player999 wrote: played a lot w/ friends last 2 days, game is so awesome this hand came up playing HU today me: villain: I draw we got 4 outs to improve on front (three 9s for +4 royalty, 1 ace for +9), and 4 to improve middle (for epic +12 on middle) however we lose the scoop if we put it at front. what do you guys think? what if it were 3 or 4 handed btw? results (not that it matters): + Show Spoiler + put the 4 at front and drew A on the last, sigh not sure if results oriented but I guess I should've really went for the scoop while still freerolling some more points

this is actually a fairly easy EV problem. just have to know how much to scoop, how much to win 2 also and you can write out the different scenarios and calculate it. have to take into account that you can still win the top if you draw a KQJT and he doesnt draw an A/T/9 or higher broadway. I guess its not so easy haha, but you just have to be pretty meticulous

Yeah I think playing for the scoop is best.

Something like %30 you get an extra 5 when u place 4 in middle vs 10% you hit ur boat and get 12.

So .30 * 5 > .1 * 12 without even counting top royalties yet.

Was bored, did the math.

There are 28 cards left.
If you play your 4 on front, you have 4 cards to win +12 (royalty for a full house in the middle)
If you play your 4 on middle, you are aiming at the scoop and royalties for pairs on top:

3 nines to win both scoop and royalty (+5+4), and 1 Ace for (+5+9), and it is not clear which cards will you make win only the scoop (let's assume J+ : 2 Jacks, 2 Queens, 3 Kings), so 7 cards to win (+5).

So if 4 on front, ev : 4/28*12=1,71

If 4 on middle, 3/28*9+1/28*14+7/28+5=0,96+0,5+1,25=2,71

So it's pretty clear you should play for the scoop.

But if you were to play in second, if getting a higcard, he could (and should) play it on top, in order to secure the top. If he puts a Quen, you still should go for the scoop, but if he places a King, it would be better to place the 4 on top.

Concenring the points, can someone confirm that at at every hand the sum of the points must be zero ?
so if we are two, and I have a +12 royalty, my opponent has -12, and +12 for me.
And if we are three, they both have -12, and I have +24 (+12 from each)
is that right ?

On January 08 2013 07:55 kingpowa wrote: Concenring the points, can someone confirm that at at every hand the sum of the points must be zero ? so if we are two, and I have a +12 royalty, my opponent has -12, and +12 for me. And if we are three, they both have -12, and I have +24 (+12 from each) is that right ?

Yeah that's right. Although if you're heads up you don't really need to do negative for one person and positive for the other since all that really tells you is who owes what; you can just add points to one person. Also in a casino setting you just pay at the end of each hand.

If anyone wants to add me on game center, I'm TimDawg888

too bad this thread didn't go anywhere.

hey jonny wanna play some chinese? 50$ pt?

how can I play it on PC?

This is interesting variant, I've only ever played 13card chinese. where you set it all at once.
Super fun either way, gonna give this a try.

On January 17 2013 05:51 Trolala wrote: how can I play it on PC?

I was wondering the same thing, anyone knows if its possible?

It seems like this app has some serious security issues :

http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/team_po...d-on-the-open-face-chines-130327.html

So if you have been seeing some fishy play, it might be related...

On February 18 2013 15:30 Denar wrote: It seems like this app has some serious security issues : http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/team_po...d-on-the-open-face-chines-130327.html So if you have been seeing some fishy play, it might be related...

So sad to read this, I havent play for money but really wanted to. Are they taking care of these issues? Will ever be safe to play for money or the developers dont care?

Can you make like 5+ fantasy lands in a row?

You can make 100+ if u run hot enuf

how's this game? still gaining momentum, or just a fad?

serious question. i am hoping stars/tilt will have real money ofc games in the future.

i've been playing a lot more of the pineapple version with friends

basically the same as regular OFC but instead of one card at a time, you get 3 at once and you must play 2 and discard 1 (the discards are face down). the game is much faster + you can go to fantasy a lot more/make better royalties

hopefully the OFC app will come out with an update for it as it continues to get more popular

The pineapple version is absolute crack. When they update the OFC app on iPhone w the pineapple version I will be playing none stop. Timdawg add me

On July 30 2013 00:25 TimDawg wrote: i've been playing a lot more of the pineapple version with friends basically the same as regular OFC but instead of one card at a time, you get 3 at once and you must play 2 and discard 1 (the discards are face down). the game is much faster + you can go to fantasy a lot more/make better royalties hopefully the OFC app will come out with an update for it as it continues to get more popular

we play aces up top as the qualifier for fantasy in pineapple instead of queens.

On July 30 2013 21:27 djforever wrote: Show nested quote + On July 30 2013 00:25 TimDawg wrote: i've been playing a lot more of the pineapple version with friends basically the same as regular OFC but instead of one card at a time, you get 3 at once and you must play 2 and discard 1 (the discards are face down). the game is much faster + you can go to fantasy a lot more/make better royalties hopefully the OFC app will come out with an update for it as it continues to get more popular we play aces up top as the qualifier for fantasy in pineapple instead of queens.

fuck that. embrace the variance