so you called both streets to make an attempt at the river and he raised you. give up? also if im stupid, please forgive me, trying to learn

so not much history, I vaguely remember him trying to bluff me in some bad spot, dont remember the specifics (granted with that read maybe I shouldnt be doing this but whatever). his line is so FOS tho right? I wanna bluff here, thoughts?

i agree it seems a little bit FOS, but you dont have many raise options. i think any bluff you make is going to wind up being pretty expensive.

his line doesnt make a whole lot of sense, but at the same time what can you rep that is going to flat pre, flat both streets and then bet river? i would think most jacks would be happy to check back a river

maybe he has a jack or a hand of some value and is putting you on something like 34s or some type of weak hand an checked river to try to induce a bluff. it could be that he thinks you would check back most of your value hands and bluff with hands that had little to no showdown value

I dont think what I can rep really matters in this spot, Im trying to move him off air that beats me. I really really dont think anyone will c/r a J to induce a bluff shove here ever. I think he has A5+ or hes bluffing.

or I guess any 5x will do too

5's make sense. couldn't he just bet a 5 for value on river (same as a decent Jack, i guess)

i think what he has does matter, to some extent, because you think hes almost always air - then isn't this just trivial and you should raise him all in, or any raise size, since the chance of him calling is soooooo narrow with just a 5x?

also, if he has air, why would he check raise river instead of give up? i would think if he is air, and he barreled two streets and checked river to see you bet 2/3rds pot, he'd probably just give up


also, this is fun, thanks for discussing hand with me

well of course what HE has matters, in fact thats the only thing that matters. And I think its anything but trivial because its not a common spot, which is why Im asking for opinions. If we had a bluffcatcher it would be different but to rebluff we need him to have air WAY more often.

im getting confused. you say hes air or 5x. air cannot call anything. isnt that the case? determining how often he actually does have the 5x?

its not a draw heavy board, so its not like he can turn missed draws into bluffs there

hes a fag, just fold turn?

dont you think he can have some overpair or 99 and take this line? does he think you are beting Jx here?

agreed.. fold turn. people dont give much credit on paired boards. Especially the 5 since you dont have too many of them.

looks like 34, so call.

yea Im not gonna argue this is not questionable/bad how I got there but fwiw Im not really trying to rep the 5, just get him off air.

On June 14 2012 15:32 chris wrote: maybe he has a jack or a hand of some value and is putting you on something like 34s or some type of weak hand an checked river to try to induce a bluff. it could be that he thinks you would check back most of your value hands and bluff with hands that had little to no showdown value

lol in that case he c/c, not c/r

On June 14 2012 16:21 EvilSky wrote: yea Im not gonna argue this is not questionable/bad how I got there but fwiw Im not really trying to rep the 5, just get him off air.

well the only way is raising, and when you do that, you ARE trying to rep 5x+

On June 14 2012 16:49 player999 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 14 2012 15:32 chris wrote: maybe he has a jack or a hand of some value and is putting you on something like 34s or some type of weak hand an checked river to try to induce a bluff. it could be that he thinks you would check back most of your value hands and bluff with hands that had little to no showdown value lol in that case he c/c, not c/r

yeah, true. what kind of value hands does he have here when hes not on air?

His line is full of shit except if he hoped for a raise on the turn ....On the other hand, you can't rep shit on the river as well therefore I'd an adept or either giving up or overbet river and mix it up with my stronger hands

or maybe, just maybe, he made his line look FOS?

i mean, not everyones line is 100% by the book. he could also be a fish going for cr with JK+/QQ+/5x/22 etc, but ya his line sucks

I could see him 3betting for value with an overpair just because your image is that you have Jx and didn't improve on the turn/river. I don't see him c/r the river with nothing here unless he knows he has fold equity. His minraise preflop is suspicious just because it doesn't look like he's stealing.. I'd probably fold, but he has a pretty polarized range here like NeillyJQ inferred which may warrant a reraise

so, what was the result?