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Handnr: 1080787
Submitted by : Stroggoz

PokerStars Hand #185659916676: Holdem No Limit ($5/$10 USD) - 2018/04/25 11:41:08 ET
Table Cuffey II 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 4: proggrezive ($1182.15 in chips)
Seat 5: Stroggos_nz ($1277.09 in chips)
Seat 6: xPastorcitox ($1766.49 in chips)
Stroggos_nz: posts small blind $5
xPastorcitox: posts big blind $10

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to Stroggos_nz QhQd
proggrezive: folds
Stroggos_nz: raises $12.40 to $22.40
xPastorcitox: calls $12.40

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $44.80)

   2dTh5s
Stroggos_nz: bets $13.42
xPastorcitox: calls $13.42

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $71.64)

   2dTh5s8c
Stroggos_nz: bets $140
xPastorcitox: calls $140

River (Pot : $351.64)

   2dTh5s8cTd
Stroggos_nz: checks
xPastorcitox: bets $450
Stroggos_nz: calls $450

Showdown
xPastorcitox: shows 9sJs (a pair of Tens)
Stroggos_nz: shows QhQd (two pair, Queens and Tens)
Stroggos_nz collected $1250.14 from pot

Summary
Total pot $1251.64 | Rake $1.50
Board  2dTh5s8cTd
Seat 4: proggrezive (button) folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 5: Stroggos_nz (small blind) showed QhQd and won ($1250.14) with two pair, Queens and Tens
Seat 6: xPastorcitox (big blind) showed 9sJs and lost with a pair of Tens

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Comments

Forum Index > pokerhands
SleepyHead   . Apr 25 2018 18:30. Posts 841

Pokers dead man you need to find a job with a stable income

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Dude you some social darwinist ideas that they are giving hitlers ghost a boner - Baal 

Stroggoz   New Zealand. Apr 25 2018 18:38. Posts 3922

pretty standard, villian is a very good reg i think

I was GTO in 2007 -wobbly_auLast edit: 25/04/2018 18:38

Nitewin   United States. Apr 25 2018 19:09. Posts 967

How do you call river? What did you put him on?

No draws on the flop. Except 43s?
No draws on the turn. Hard to see him get there with J9.

If he calls double pot bet he has the T at least.
22, 55, T8, Tx could be in his value range. What's in his bluff range? J9s(not clubs), 43s, 64s(not clubs)? A3, A4 probably fold turn.

 Last edit: 25/04/2018 19:10

lebowski   Greece. Apr 25 2018 19:50. Posts 8950

there are more backdoor draws on flop that connect with this turn

new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man... 

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Apr 25 2018 20:11. Posts 14476

You're missing a bunch of offsuit hands nitewin, you call almost everything pre vs that size
And everything that connects with flop including all backdoor straight draws

NL5 Grinder 4LifeLast edit: 25/04/2018 20:24

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Apr 25 2018 20:13. Posts 14476

Why you need balls of steel when you use it pre
I'll stick to my large raise or limp strategy ty very much xoxo

NL5 Grinder 4Life 

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Apr 25 2018 20:16. Posts 14476

I don't really see the huge advantage unless you're an oop sicko
Snowie even plays a limp or minraise with big antes
And that shit and mixes is more complicated than my girlfriend when the red dragon strikes

NL5 Grinder 4Life 

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Apr 25 2018 20:19. Posts 14476

And I wanted to say that vs smn very good you just have to close eyes call Qq and hope he really is good
It will most likely be better than Aa here as you block more Tx
And you can't just call with a T and better

NL5 Grinder 4LifeLast edit: 25/04/2018 20:20

Nitewin   United States. Apr 25 2018 20:38. Posts 967

Ok, add J9o and 64o? QJo and KJo folds turn.


LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Apr 25 2018 21:58. Posts 14476

67o (you can easily call flop with the backdoor vs that size)
34o
and you're at a lot of combos already

NL5 Grinder 4LifeLast edit: 25/04/2018 22:07

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Apr 25 2018 22:00. Posts 14476

This is what Snowie defends
(uses half pot 3bet
But fuck him I just pot it xD)

and many people say it plays nitty against itself than real people do vs humans

NL5 Grinder 4LifeLast edit: 25/04/2018 22:06

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Apr 25 2018 22:05. Posts 14476

Btw wow
You actually maximised equity for your hand if you played vs Snowie on flop+turn
50% PSB is range size on flop
but 25% has highest ev for QQ (after full pot)

25% PSB is range size for turn
But 2X pot has highest EV for QQ

and river easy call if you play vs snowie

NL5 Grinder 4LifeLast edit: 25/04/2018 22:09

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Apr 25 2018 22:14. Posts 8166

- saw a Stroggoz hand with 12 comments
- expected a sick hand with discussion
- turns out its a very standard hand
- why the fuck are there 12 comments then
.....
- Lemon posted 9 consecutive comments


Stroggoz   New Zealand. Apr 25 2018 23:17. Posts 3922


  On April 25 2018 18:09 Nitewin wrote:
How do you call river? What did you put him on?

No draws on the flop. Except 43s?
No draws on the turn. Hard to see him get there with J9.

If he calls double pot bet he has the T at least.
22, 55, T8, Tx could be in his value range. What's in his bluff range? J9s(not clubs), 43s, 64s(not clubs)? A3, A4 probably fold turn.



i think people are supposed to fold around 15-20% to my bet on this flop so they ought to have a lot of draws. It's very easy to see them get there with J9. They have a lot of Tx but also a reasonable amount of missed draws, i think their sizing they picked was a very good one considering that ratio, and that they would only bet Tx+ for value here.

I was GTO in 2007 -wobbly_auLast edit: 25/04/2018 23:52

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Apr 26 2018 03:29. Posts 14476


  On April 25 2018 21:14 Spitfiree wrote:
- saw a Stroggoz hand with 12 comments
- expected a sick hand with discussion
- turns out its a very standard hand
- why the fuck are there 12 comments then
.....
- Lemon posted 9 consecutive comments


Cool story Bro

NL5 Grinder 4Life 

lucky331   . Apr 26 2018 06:13. Posts 964

would a 3/4 pot bet on river make villain look stronger? i mean after he calls 2x pot on turn...

did his slight over bet on river make you call or were you calling anyway?

and what if he overbet shoves?

 Last edit: 26/04/2018 06:14

Stroggoz   New Zealand. Apr 26 2018 15:52. Posts 3922


  On April 25 2018 21:00 LemOn[5thF] wrote:
This is what Snowie defends
(uses half pot 3bet
But fuck him I just pot it xD)

and many people say it plays nitty against itself than real people do vs humans



dont really understand the chart, it doesnt seem to 3bet pre with AKo, QQ sb vs bb? thats radically different from pio. are those numbers % of something? raise, and green is 100% raise?

I was GTO in 2007 -wobbly_auLast edit: 26/04/2018 15:56

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Apr 26 2018 16:02. Posts 14476

yellow=call
green=3bet
number = %of the combo that gets also 3bet

This is vs Snowie's Limp/Raise SB ranges as it plays vs itself
biggest drawback of Snowie, especially BvB, you can't change the preflop presets

NL5 Grinder 4LifeLast edit: 26/04/2018 16:08

Stroggoz   New Zealand. Apr 26 2018 16:06. Posts 3922

why does it 3bet a ton with weak Kxo but never Axo. That's very unmixed for a machine learner. Blank square means 0% 3bet right? IT also never 3bets with suited connectors?

I was GTO in 2007 -wobbly_auLast edit: 26/04/2018 16:07

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Apr 26 2018 16:10. Posts 14476

it doesn't use this size btw
standard is 1/2 pot 3bet and the range would change a lot
And I'm pretty sure the sb range with the size will be different

I've seen the preflop pio charts only with limp/raise and 3X so can't compare really

NL5 Grinder 4LifeLast edit: 26/04/2018 16:11

Fayth    Canada. Apr 26 2018 16:20. Posts 10080

range is very different from pio to say the least, not sure why

Im not sure what to do tomorrow when I see her, should I shake her hand?? -Floofy 

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Apr 26 2018 16:27. Posts 14476

This is what it actually uses with half pot haha that it prefers

NL5 Grinder 4LifeLast edit: 26/04/2018 16:28

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Apr 26 2018 16:30. Posts 14476

and it's not weird at all actually
because with 1/2 pot in SB it almost doesn't raise
This is SB strat with 1/2 pot

NL5 Grinder 4Life 

Fayth    Canada. Apr 26 2018 16:31. Posts 10080

isnt half pot really small 3bet for preflop? I know PIO prefers sort of middling sizing for 3bets BB vs SB, not large nor small

Im not sure what to do tomorrow when I see her, should I shake her hand?? -Floofy 

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Apr 26 2018 16:35. Posts 14476

I'm haven't run preflop pio myself btw
Just got it from Educa course

and You'll see snowie do all sorts of weird ass stuff when you do these small preflop raises vs it
and/or add antes and bigger stacks

I'm not sure if you've been running preflop pio with these sizes and stack depths boys and how much it would differ.

The tree will differ postflop, Snowie limits itself by using only one size in most spots post so the charts should look different

EDIT: Oh and yeah Snowie only does 1/2 pot or 2x pot also pre so if it's somewhere inbetween doesn't mean snowie's wrong using the closer preset


man listing all these limitations just shows me how lazy I am just mooching off of other people for pio and running Snowie instead heh. If it works though heh
EDIT2: I do get some word class coaching, watch the top people and don't play stars so it does seem enough.

Much Respect to Stroggoz for actually pushing through the hard work way

NL5 Grinder 4LifeLast edit: 26/04/2018 16:50

Nitewin   United States. Apr 26 2018 23:29. Posts 967

can one teach PiO to Nitewin?


Ryan Neilly   United States. Apr 27 2018 04:33. Posts 1224

great flop bet size to make this an ez snap call


Ryan Neilly   United States. Apr 27 2018 04:35. Posts 1224

ones flop sizing can dictate much wider turn and river ranges, making this an easy call, and any overbet an easier call. another amazing hand, great utilization of all your tools in most the hands you post. sick life


Ryan Neilly   United States. Apr 27 2018 04:37. Posts 1224

lemon, if u stop thinking of everything you've learned, and just APPLY it, and learn 15% and play 85%+ (because you are studying so damn much) - set no restrictions, play as big blinds, set stop loses, play many sessions a day, you should be fine pretty high up, at least by theory..


Ryan Neilly   United States. Apr 27 2018 04:38. Posts 1224

when i wrote play as big blinds i just meant never focus on size of pot, just look at everything in size of bbs, no fistpump winning $16, or $400, its all 1bi.


Stroggoz   New Zealand. Apr 27 2018 05:31. Posts 3922

neilly dropping jewels here for ya lemon

I was GTO in 2007 -wobbly_au 

devon06atX   Canada. Apr 27 2018 21:37. Posts 5381


  On April 27 2018 04:31 Stroggoz wrote:
neilly dropping jewels here for ya lemon

This is better than the ROFL thread for the last month


lebowski   Greece. Apr 28 2018 20:16. Posts 8950

I don't get how xPastorcitox calls the turn 2x pot with the open ender
he thinks there's a ton of implied odds because his hand is disguised if he hits?
Does he consider his J outs clean?

new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man... 

Stroggoz   New Zealand. Apr 28 2018 20:35. Posts 3922

its a an easy call on the turn with J9s and not even close, yes the implied odds are big here. I think it would be a call even with a hand like QJ

I was GTO in 2007 -wobbly_auLast edit: 28/04/2018 22:06

traxamillion   United States. May 03 2018 05:56. Posts 10332


  On April 25 2018 18:09 Nitewin wrote:
How do you call river? What did you put him on?

No draws on the flop. Except 43s?
No draws on the turn. Hard to see him get there with J9.

If he calls double pot bet he has the T at least.
22, 55, T8, Tx could be in his value range. What's in his bluff range? J9s(not clubs), 43s, 64s(not clubs)? A3, A4 probably fold turn.



you realize this is 3 handed between good players right? villain is much wider on flop than you are giving him credit for.


Spitfiree   Bulgaria. May 03 2018 11:40. Posts 8166


  On April 28 2018 19:35 Stroggoz wrote:
I think it would be a call even with a hand like QJ



He can't really call on a Q/J river and can't extract value if you check to him on those rivers either, he'd just be setting himself up for a tough spot and be overbluffing, no ?


LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. May 05 2018 09:23. Posts 14476


  On April 27 2018 03:37 Ryan Neilly wrote:
lemon, if u stop thinking of everything you've learned, and just APPLY it, and learn 15% and play 85%+ (because you are studying so damn much) - set no restrictions, play as big blinds, set stop loses, play many sessions a day, you should be fine pretty high up, at least by theory..


I am fine pretty high up Neilly
Have had 7 consecutive winning months small/midstakes now
That's what happens when you stick with pete and don't try to re-invent the wheel every month Neilly

NL5 Grinder 4LifeLast edit: 05/05/2018 09:36

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. May 05 2018 09:29. Posts 14476


  On April 28 2018 19:16 lebowski wrote:
I don't get how xPastorcitox calls the turn 2x pot with the open ender
he thinks there's a ton of implied odds because his hand is disguised if he hits?
Does he consider his J outs clean?


Vs someone who obviously will have bluffs here and c/f river range you also have to add river bluff equity vs a check into the equation

QJ does seem too loose tho to me

NL5 Grinder 4LifeLast edit: 05/05/2018 09:36

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. May 05 2018 09:34. Posts 14476


  On April 27 2018 20:37 devon06atX wrote:
Show nested quote +

This is better than the ROFL thread for the last month

You know I realized some time back after watching H3h3 with Tai Lopez
that most self-help "gurus", people posting advice on facebook etc. are just learning and trying hard to teach to themselves things they can't seem to keep doing.
So I think it's wonderful neilly is discovering these grounbreaking concepts like think in terms of BB for himself finally

NL5 Grinder 4LifeLast edit: 05/05/2018 09:35

Ryan Neilly   United States. May 16 2018 16:24. Posts 1224

Lemon you think you are the only one that studies, how cute

 Last edit: 16/05/2018 17:19

Ryan Neilly   United States. May 16 2018 16:26. Posts 1224

lemon not all of us need our hand held every step of the way, pokers a pretty simple game, peter didn't do any coaching after we moved to chinese sites, so it was pretty much done then, im way better off now than then.

 Last edit: 16/05/2018 17:19

Ryan Neilly   United States. May 16 2018 16:30. Posts 1224

Not wasting any more energy to you, hagd.

 Last edit: 16/05/2018 17:20

 

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