TST

i wonder what supporters of Obama think now? what does K4o have to say now when its as clear as crystal that Obama is just here to keep the machine going

On June 22 2009 15:22 ToTehEastSide wrote: Where did all those Bush foreign-policy hating BRING-THE-TROOPS-HOME people go?? The answer?! "Hey my guy won so I don't care"

If anyone had any doubts that mainstream media is slanted in favor of the left, they should be gone now. Why are we not getting body counts? Why are't we still counting the days since "mission accomplished?" Why aren't we seeing the caskets come home (they changed the rules to allow this after Bush, still we don't see them), why aren't we demanding an exit date from this administration?

Because it's not an election year and their guy is on the job.

Rush said in 2004 that "liberals don't hate Bush because of the war, they hate the war because of Bush!" Of this I believe he was right.

So I take it you too support the removal of troops?

I do. In my opinion, not drawing down the troops and pulling out of Iraq before he left office was proof he was a dim wit.

Without being armed with the facts, I will attempt to comment on the confusion that ron paul and others have regarding current administration practices:

Last week Congress passed the war supplemental appropriations bill. In an affront to all those who thought they voted for a peace candidate, the current president will be sending another $106 billion we don’t have to continue the bloodshed in Afghanistan and Iraq, without a hint of a plan to bring our troops home.

The war in iraq has been funded to the tune of roughly 1 billion dollars per day. This appropriations bill is likely just keeping the wheels rolling while exit strategies are planned and overall just keeping our presence in a stabilized manner. We have something like 200-250 thousand troops in iraq right now. We cant literally just cut all funding at the drop of a hat. Hummers need gas, planes need maintenance, people need food, tents need building, generators need fixing, sanitation services need cleaning, etc etc. Considering the vast amount of money that has been spent thus far to actually FUND the war, it seems evident to me that 100 billion dollars is just a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things. Enough to keep a skeleton crew of military personnel ready and in general, keep things from falling apart. So, that being said, I am still under the impression that it is our administrations strongest intent to pull our troops out within a realistic time frame. Putting them over there took a lot of work, and they've been there a long time. I think it took something like 18 years to pull out of vietnam. It's a slow process. I expect we will forever maintain some type of military presence in Iraq, and our current presence will leave on a slow trickle.

Oh, and by the way, fuck anyone who dares bring up the fact that dems continue to fund any faction of the war. Fucking republican scum started this shit and now we have to end it. We fucking triiiiieeeed several times earlier, but were hit with "traitor" and "coward" comments, when cutting funding meant troops might not get bullet proof vests (the ones they should have already had going into war) and shit. Fuuuuuuuck you mother fucker to anyone who dares bring up that shit. *Not directed towards anyone in this thread*.

From their spending habits, an economic collapse seems to be the goal of Congress and this administration. Washington spends with impunity domestically, bailing out and nationalizing everything they can get their hands on, and the foreign aid and IMF funding in this bill can rightly be called an international bailout!

Now, about all this socialism nonsense. I feel that 'the other side' is really failing to grasp the severity of the situation. They continue to observe things in black and white. Gov't gives money to save auto company, gov't takes over auto company, gov't is trying to take over business. Gov't gives money to insurance company, gov't tells insurance company how to spend money, gov't wants to own insurance company. For starters, our government is nothing more than a collection of roughly 400 people trying to do what we want them to do. It's not some evil maniacal machine from another dimension traveling through the slipgate intent on taking over our world and harvesting our resources for the collective. None of these people sit at home greedily rubbing their slithery fingers together looking out the corner of their eye with a mischievous laugh in the middle of the night. Some might. Some have agenda's, some have anti-agenda agenda's, and some are just doing their job. The current actions taking place within our government are not progressive measures to change things for the future. They are reactionary measures as a direct result of dire circumstances. The gov't does not want to own a shitty american auto company, or practically anything else it has dipped its hands in. The gov't is simply looking for forcefully right a wrong. Rather than letting the system sort itself out as it tends to do (with drastic consequences), we are trying to pull a hail mary here, a full court clutch shot on the buzzer to save the day. Maybe it will work, maybe it wont. We KNOW what will happen if nothing is done, another great depression. Well just about anything seems better than that. Credit has proven itself to work when used responsibly. It can also work as a gamble. IMO our current administration is gambling with the country's economy in a last ditch effort to prevent it from collapsing. But if they fail, it will collapse.

Now then you have things like healthcare and so on, which the gov't is indeed intervening in, and in principle this is not a good thing. But in REALITY, it has proven effective. So capitalistic principle or not, socialized healthcare works, so theres no reason not incorporating it into our way of life. Lots of things are socialized in this country. Our economy is and always has been a form of socialistic capitalism. Nobody has really complained before. A few more socialistic measures are being taken but purely as a response to things which NEED to be addressed. We cant just ignore all of our problems like the republicans want and hope to god ice-cream shops and locally owned furniture stores save the economy.

The list goes on, but ultimately, everything the republicans are complaining about has a rather simple explanation, and that can be summed up by "this is only temporary". Yea im sure everyone will say "zomg thats what hitler told teh jews!", but then again, if you havent noticed, our economy is kinda in a fucking crisis at the moment. On any other day none of this would be happening. Cept for the obvious ones that SHOULD happen, like healthcare, alternative energy, etc etc.

On June 23 2009 00:05 NewbSaibot wrote: Without being armed with the facts, I will attempt to comment on the confusion that ron paul and others have regarding current administration practices:

noone ever has to worry about me and censoring them, and I like to think that I try and respond to everyone and all the things I see etc but dammmit man
I am just reading this far into your post and not continuing further I am sorry
I literally stopped and laughed...I am still

I mean, are you serious?
is this statement for real and not a level?

Feel free to offer an opinion of your own rather than copying and pasting someone elses.

now what are u talking about?
you want an opinion on what?
remember I've not read your post except the first sentence - and candidly speaking I'm not going to as that opening sentence you made to me so hilariously sets the tone of all your posts so very well that there is just no need for me to even bother; you are more than welcome to try again tho, but that post will not be read

and are you really trying to say that all I ever do is just copy and paste and I never voice my own thoughts? really?
really really?
forgive me if my view is parallel with someone else Aibot, I can't help that.
and forgive me if I post a picture or quote someone to save me time - I do it primarily for that reason - unlike most people my time is precious
plz do not start lowering yourself on the argument pyramid that I showed k2 and resort to ad-hominem attacks

anyhow, sure I'll take a blind stab at what you want an opinion on and offer you my own

the USA should bring the troops home and end this preemptive war on terror, as realistically to me that excuse is obviously a battle on a thought and it can never ever be won and we vastly need those strong people who will fight for what they believe in here at home as here is where it's at.
The reality is this country is expanding for other gains and it is getting there by using the Americans who can not see the big picture and/or are afraid. These are often the same Americans who just snap call/believe anything and everything they are told on main stream media networks or by our government without any question. Unfortunately due to our great nationalized education system that is the majority and even more unfortunate for us is due to our failed immigration system this majority is increasing at an even more rapidly rate as most immigrants are socialist by upbringing. But imo the most unfortunate of everything is how our government is setting up shop to deem people like me or anyone that thinks outside the current system as a terrorist and our government is making moves or drawing lines in the sand that if allowed to continue and not stopped will easily one day leave people like you completely on your own and I will be arrested, in hiding, or dead.

I hope that suffices Aibot, I more than said enough imo and if you can't target anything in that then don't fault me
I opened the doors as wide as possible and put my neck right there for ya
more than once

I didn't want to edit that post but I had to put the word current in there

Ah, now reading your words is much more revealing than reading the words of those you quote. I got what I was looking for, and unfortunately my stomach sank just as it did when I finally exposed the opposition on other unrelated forums, and that is the simple fact that most of the opposition out there today doesnt really know wtf they are talking about. They read some "non-mainstream news source [rightwing chain letter emails]" or get their news from AM radio talk shows and pass it off as the gospel because they feel without a multi-million dollar advertising budget, it must be true. Or they live in an environment where the majority of people they interact with spout the same nonsense they heard from another guy the day before, and just keep churning it around the circle feeling as though they have really 'got the facts straight'. You see, there is a clear divide between your writing and that which you have pasted, and I have no choice but to believe you choose to paste more than write because you lack the ability to do so.

When I started my post referring to my lack of facts, it was an honest attempt to give you some real feedback and a peak into my mind. I knew I would probably reference some numbers that would be off by a few digits here or there, or completely lack knowledge of a statistical value, but that it wouldnt matter because I clearly "know enough" to argue my points without having a scripted outline of bullet points to read out. I.E. a natural debate. You had complained that I dont put much effort into your responses and that I am just a pigheaded arrogant liberal who doesnt care about the facts and stubbornly insists he's right. I had responded to this simply saying I was tired of fighting this battle, because of too many letdown's after having lengthy arguments with people providing all the facts and numbers they needed, they showed me they never really cared what I said anyway and continued to just vomit forth an endless stream of unfounded and misleading information from their rightwing news sources. What a waste of my time. I decided to give your kind another chance, or at least half a chance. I would engage you with a real response but not spend hours pulling the information necessary to cite my sources. Your response? An embarrassing blob of incoherent ramblings about government takeover, being arrested, not even reading what I wrote, and an overall laughable level of paranoia ripped straight from a hollywood spy thriller.

Seriously, if this is the best you can do, then I'm sorry, please go back to just copying/pasting and let other people do the talking for you.

I guess you sure showed me lol

wait a minute
u know what, I've a question for you

If someone says the words The Constitution...
what goes through your mind?

I'm going to attempt to get this failed conversation with you somewhere yet!

On June 24 2009 16:49 ToTehEastSide wrote: wait a minute u know what, I've a question for you If someone says the words The Constitution... what goes through your mind?

Outdated. We live in 2009 not 1789.

naturally naturally

can you expand on that?

What do you think when someone says the word "constitution"? And let me know ahead of time if I should be facing the flag with my hand over my heart when I read.

sigh..
nevermind dude
please go and waste someone else's time then

On June 23 2009 00:05 NewbSaibot wrote: Without being armed with the facts, I will attempt to comment on the confusion that ron paul and others have regarding current administration practices:

On June 24 2009 21:15 NewbSaibot wrote: Show nested quote + On June 24 2009 16:49 ToTehEastSide wrote: wait a minute u know what, I've a question for you If someone says the words The Constitution... what goes through your mind? Outdated. We live in 2009 not 1789.

On June 25 2009 17:59 NewbSaibot wrote: What do you think when someone says the word "constitution"? And let me know ahead of time if I should be facing the flag with my hand over my heart when I read.