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The games are incredibly easy

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Ket    United Kingdom. Nov 24 2012 07:37. Posts 8635
We just experience them as being 'hard' because we all suck. Really bad. The avg reg that has made 7 figures lifetime is just not very good at all (myself included). Think about how good you have to be to get to the top x percentile in any other competitive pursuit and compare it with poker, it's a joke. Good news for motivated "good" (relative to all the other fools) pros!! Cheers

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 Last edit: 24/11/2012 07:38

the cleaner   Venezuela. Nov 24 2012 07:47. Posts 3010

Good post Ket

Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, when you do criticize him, you will be a mile away and have his shoes. 

TheTrees   United States. Nov 24 2012 08:13. Posts 1587

Very positive post...need more positivity on LP


EvilSky    Czech Republic. Nov 24 2012 08:14. Posts 8912

if you suck really bad how can you tell the games are so easy? ^^


Ket    United Kingdom. Nov 24 2012 08:17. Posts 8635

bc im not getting crushed so everyone else must be either nearly as bad as me, or worse


Loco   Canada. Nov 24 2012 08:22. Posts 18588

It's all relative though (duh). We know they're harder than they used to be for a fact if we no longer crush them. Yes, it means now we suck compared to those who can crush them, but it also means the games aren't incredibly easy relative to how they once were.

I think you're saying it's a matter of outlook. If you're motivated and talented enough you can certainly find the games incredibly easy. Those are evidently an exception though.

You're right about the talent required to get to the top in other disciplines, but in almost every other competitive pursuits I think luck isn't involved nearly as much, so it makes things much different imo.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. (Mencken) 

DaEm0niCuS   United States. Nov 24 2012 08:23. Posts 3290

What other competitive pursuits do you have in mind? What makes something difficult?

If the avg reg has spent thousands of hours playing poker and most of them are not at 5/10+ and many are basically rakeback pros, id would say that's far from incredibly easy.

Also many careers/pursuits require very little real effort, have a garunteed income and are far less stressful.


DaEm0niCuS   United States. Nov 24 2012 08:29. Posts 3290

Remove rake from poker and the game becomes a joke, I suppose rake isn't much of a factor at 10/20+ though.


Loco   Canada. Nov 24 2012 08:32. Posts 18588


  On November 24 2012 07:13 TheTrees wrote:
Very positive post...need more positivity on LP



It looks positive on the surface but the more I think about it the more it should be depressing to most. It's basically saying that if you haven't made it big already and you have put in a lot of efforts in the past few years, you suck, and there's no hope for you. And even if you somewhat made it big, you still suck somewhat if you find the games hard: you've probably hit some plateau you won't get past, and you're better off quitting. While those who don't suck don't need any kind of pep-talk, they're just crushing and they know how good they are. So the positivity is geared towards no one that needs it in reality, lol. I mean really think about it, Ket is saying he's not very good at all (what does that make 99% of LP players?) and the good news is for those who are motivated (more than him) and good (better than him), if I'm not misunderstanding the end of his post.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. (Mencken)Last edit: 24/11/2012 08:38

RaiNKhAN    United States. Nov 24 2012 08:43. Posts 4080


  On November 24 2012 07:32 Loco wrote:
Show nested quote +



Ket is saying he's not very good at all (what does that make 99% of LP players?)


not modest unlike him?

The biggest Rockets, Sixers, and Grizzlies fan you will ever meet! 

TalentedTom    Canada. Nov 24 2012 08:56. Posts 20069

chap, I'm not gonna pull your finger

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us and as we let our own lights shine we unconsciously give other people permision to do the same 

Loco   Canada. Nov 24 2012 09:22. Posts 18588


  On November 24 2012 07:43 RaiNKhAN wrote:
Show nested quote +



not modest unlike him?



Lol, good point... I have no idea about Ket's results in poker these past couple years, but he seems to be saying that he doesn't find the games easy, just that those that are really good will find them easy... so I assume he was being honest in saying he isn't very good (anymore) and not just modest.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. (Mencken)Last edit: 24/11/2012 09:24

morph1   Sierra Leone. Nov 24 2012 10:05. Posts 2350

<3 blog post

btw.. I see that a lot of people should watch/rewatch Tommy Angelo's series "The Eightfold Path to Poker Enlightenment" , esp very underestimated parts about right thinking, right view and right speech , as this are, in life generaly, very basic and logical "concepts", but still some people fail hard to realize and use them

Always Look On The Bright Side of LifeLast edit: 24/11/2012 10:06

GoTuNk   Chile. Nov 24 2012 10:09. Posts 2751

+1 Nl10 is the easiest fucking thing in the world


LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Nov 24 2012 10:35. Posts 14183

I dunno man, NL5 is pretty tough

Podcast: http://www.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=328850 

Ket    United Kingdom. Nov 24 2012 11:34. Posts 8635


  On November 24 2012 07:22 Loco wrote:
It's all relative though (duh). We know they're harder than they used to be for a fact if we no longer crush them. Yes, it means now we suck compared to those who can crush them, but it also means the games aren't incredibly easy relative to how they once were.

I think you're saying it's a matter of outlook. If you're motivated and talented enough you can certainly find the games incredibly easy. Those are evidently an exception though.

You're right about the talent required to get to the top in other disciplines, but in almost every other competitive pursuits I think luck isn't involved nearly as much, so it makes things much different imo.


very reasonable way of looking at it and this is the standard way everyone looks at it, measuring relative to the current population of players. im trying to present an alternative paradigm where we try to guess what average skill level poker "should" be at by comparing with human achievement in many other things. Kind of an idea of where we're at in poker today in absolute terms and whether or not we could or 'should' be much further.

vast vast generalisations below, my understanding (not sure about the accuracy):

poker started as a gimmick for hustlers from a grifting background to fleece rich guys who gamble for entertainment. the average pro player pre-2003 boom came from this kind of background and had a primitive level of fundamental theoretical understanding or tools compared to today. Top dogs like Doyle and Ungar would get a rough idea of hand vs hand equities by manually dealing out allins of AK vs 22 hundreds of times and keeping tallies.

Bam 2003 the year of Moneymaker happens, with the subsequent mainstream poker explosion (and along with it, internet poker explosion), now a ton of kids and young men with above average performance at high school and above average numerical/logic skills, a gaming background and a certain propensity for laziness are the ones dominating the online game and using much sharper tools than the previous lot to bring poker strategy (especially lhe, nlhe and nlhe tournaments) forward lightyears. Very often this lot are dropping traditional routes (education, 'normal' careers) to pursue this profession.

In a lot of important fundamental areas of poker, we do things better than the previous lot did. We have pokerstove, HEM, propokertools, training sites and we can play a ton of hands very quickly compared to live players. But is this enough to make us start getting close to the pinnacle of how well poker can be played? Or are we just scratching the surface?


Ket    United Kingdom. Nov 24 2012 11:37. Posts 8635


  On November 24 2012 07:32 Loco wrote:
Show nested quote +



It looks positive on the surface but the more I think about it the more it should be depressing to most. It's basically saying that if you haven't made it big already and you have put in a lot of efforts in the past few years, you suck, and there's no hope for you. And even if you somewhat made it big, you still suck somewhat if you find the games hard: you've probably hit some plateau you won't get past, and you're better off quitting. While those who don't suck don't need any kind of pep-talk, they're just crushing and they know how good they are. So the positivity is geared towards no one that needs it in reality, lol. I mean really think about it, Ket is saying he's not very good at all (what does that make 99% of LP players?) and the good news is for those who are motivated (more than him) and good (better than him), if I'm not misunderstanding the end of his post.

imo it's good news for anyone with any interest in playing poker online and trying to win, as doing so today is a lot easier than it could be (it's harder than it was sure but that kind of thing can never ever last surely? that was a one-time bubble because poker was new to the mainstream)


VanDerMeyde   Norway. Nov 24 2012 13:36. Posts 4609

the hardest thing about poker is handling losing days...

It would almost be an advantage not beeing a super pro at starcraft, because then u are not used to losing at all......... if u had like 300-300 on the ladder u will probably do better at poker if ure bumhunting

:D 

bigredhoss   Cook Islands. Nov 24 2012 14:21. Posts 8523


  In a lot of important fundamental areas of poker, we do things better than the previous lot did. We have pokerstove, HEM, propokertools, training sites and we can play a ton of hands very quickly compared to live players. But is this enough to make us start getting close to the pinnacle of how well poker can be played? Or are we just scratching the surface?


i don't understand what criteria you're using to determine how good we should be at poker though. not being close to the pinnacle of how well poker can be played doesn't imply we suck imo.

i think these days for kids with above average intelligence it's easier to make good money going with a more traditional career route like business or medicine or whatever. ("good money" is obv subjective and depends a lot on where you live, but let's say $150k/year++).

Truck-Crash Life 

Stroggoz   New Zealand. Nov 24 2012 15:43. Posts 3233

haha nice post ket. For me the games have become a lot easier to me this year from improvement. 2012 is the best year yet for me and i owe it to playing regs HU and also to the logical advice of people that are smater than me. (over 100k hands played HU this year, now playing weaker regs HU is where i can make the most money)

Dont need to be smart. My IQ is 110, which is pretty average. You just need to be able to be to absorb the information of people smarter than you. Every human being does this in school, learning the knowledge that has been accumulated from geniuses over the years.

i drink ur milkshakeLast edit: 24/11/2012 19:31

 
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